quote:Originally posted by ne14bb:
Did not look up rule 10 (any MLB rules for that matter) but will concede you are correct in that rule application.
Don’t feel bad. Many people who comment on baseball statistics don’t understand that not all baseball statistics have a direct application to the rules.
quote:How about at its core the game says the offense is to score runs and defense is to get 3 outs. Nothing more, nothing less than that.
Actually, its even less complicated than that.
OBR - 1.02 The objective of each team is to win by scoring more runs than the opponent.
quote:Throw out stats and MLB stats completely and even "how" an offensive player reaches base safely as the rules provide different ways to do so.
I’m not at all sure what you’re getting at. The reason MLB keeps statistics is to as accurately as possible, relate exactly what happened during a game.
quote:The offensive side of the game simply says get on base then - score runs. ROE then is one of the ways to do exactly what the game calls for.
You’re correct to a point, but Ii think you’re confusing the rules and the stats baseball tracks because of them, and what the baseball community, including teams, players, management, fans, use statistics for. I assure you that no one in ownership, management, mistakes success or failure only by how a player reached base. Its much more involved than that.
quote:To discount ROE as irrelevant and insignificant to what the game calls for at its very core seems ...well... completely anti-rules.
To imply it has no relevancy in stats is an opinion and even one it seems the vast majority in the stat world agree with you on.
But it is irrelevant to the rules, because the rules only ask for a total of runs each player scores. And there’s no percentage called for that involves runs for hitters.
[QUOTE]Interesting though is the same stat world that rejects ROE has no issue with including and using the equally similar (100% defense induced) HBP stat to make their OBP/OPS and all other offensive contributors valid in their multi-level advanced stat formulas? Why is that and or how is that any different than ROE?
Be thee careful about what thee speaks of. The “stat world” and what the rules call for are two entirely different things. This “stat world” you refer to is not controlled by the rules of baseball. In fact, if you look hard enough, my guess is you’ll find several data collecting entities, and the stats they generate often differ because they don’t all generate the same things the same ways.
quote:Don't know just yet but will deduce the average # of times a MLB player is HBP per season is either in-line with and may even be lower than the # of times a player ROE. It certainly is not a huge statistical difference as a stat relative to ROE yet there is HBP in the mix of all stats formulas used to factor in offense. How come?
I’m not sure what your point is. In the end, MLB has determined that a player ROE will be charged with an at bat for computational purposes, but not with a hit. HBPs aren’t chargeable as at bats, and that makes them compute differently. Are you suggesting that an ROE not be counted as an at bat? That seems to be counter-intuitive because an error is a misplay which would have been an out. How would an HBP have been an out? Heck, it might have been an out or a HR for all anyone knows.