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Reply to "Need guidance"

quote:
Originally posted by ne14bb:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Stats4Gnats:
Before I try to answer, I want to be sure you understand that I’m a big believer that ROE is a statistic that should be reported, tracked, and of course analyzed in relation to many other statistics.

OK we agree.


(quote) I’m not sure what your point is. In the end, MLB has determined that a player ROE will be charged with an at bat for computational purposes, but not with a hit. HBPs aren’t chargeable as at bats, and that makes them compute differently. Are you suggesting that an ROE not be counted as an at bat? That seems to be counter-intuitive because an error is a misplay which would have been an out. How would an HBP have been an out? Heck, it might have been an out or a HR for all anyone knows.


You made some valid points. To clarify however, I do not think ROE should be counted as a hit and yes it is an AB.

As to HBP was making the argument in regard to "defense made the error" thus ROE issue as there is no difference what happened in the AB to get batter on 1st base. Where HBP is used in OBP (always means also in OPS) yet ROE is left out of the equation.

As to my point? My only original point per OP was how come I ran into such diffuclty in trying to find ROE stat info when it is obvious numerous stat sheets available to the public are filled with stats yet kept leaving ROE off their charts. Probably should have left it at that.

(QUOTE) Be thee careful about what thee speaks of. The “stat world” and what the rules call for are two entirely different things. This “stat world” you refer to is not controlled by the rules of baseball. In fact, if you look hard enough, my guess is you’ll find several data collecting entities, and the stats they generate often differ because they don’t all generate the same things the same ways.

quote:
Originally posted by ne14bb:
You made some valid points. To clarify however, I do not think ROE should be counted as a hit and yes it is an AB.


WHEW! I’m sure glad we don’t have to go back to basic scorekeeping! Wink

Without reading further, and based on what’s been said in the past, it sure sounds to me as though all you’re trying to do is do a little deeper analysis, which is what I do. I just throw the numbers on a printed page and let the reader do all the interpreting he/she wants to do.

quote:
As to HBP was making the argument in regard to "defense made the error" thus ROE issue as there is no difference what happened in the AB to get batter on 1st base. Where HBP is used in OBP (always means also in OPS) yet ROE is left out of the equation.


I got that. But the difference is, an ROE is an official at bat, and a HBO isn’t. That’s where difference lies.

quote:
As to my point? My only original point per OP was how come I ran into such diffuclty in trying to find ROE stat info when it is obvious numerous stat sheets available to the public are filled with stats yet kept leaving ROE off their charts. Probably should have left it at that.


Naw. You seldom learn or share knowledge without discussion. Believe me, there’s no great conspiracy to keep anything secret. The stat wonks will never allow that to happen. Smile

I guess I should have had you look at the following link earlier on.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/...ANCES-ARE-IT-IS-HERE

If you’re really interested in stats and stat wonks, try looking at the following. This forum is fun and can be instructive, but some of the folks over there will blow off your socks. Wink

http://www.baseball-fever.com/...nalysis-Sabermetrics

quote:
You more than make my other point. The stat world has gone beyond looking hard at every faction of the game to make them into fractions and formulas so advanced the commoner (me) has neither the intellect or the interest to figure them out.


Hey, I’m on your side there. I love the numbers, but really don’t give a darn about them at the ML level. I’m really only interested in how they apply to the guys I score for and generate stats for. So any of the great stats the wonks swoon over that has something as simple a Ball Park Factors in it, is really pretty useless to me, as are most tables that are based on a 9 inning game rather than 7 innings.

quote:
But this every day fan (obviously not a stat rat) does understand that if the rules and stats are two different things it sure seems like they are both about what makes a team WIN.


I think you’re pretty much right on target, other than it isn’t the stats that make a team win, its how they’re used in the management of that team.
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