quote:Originally posted by Three Bagger:
Just saw this thread, but one thing that I don't believe was mentioned when comparing ROE and HBP is that to some extent there have been batters who were "skilled" in getting HBP. How did Ron Hunt get hit 50 times in one season when no one else was close to that in that year or any other. Why did guys like Craig Biggio and Don Baylor get more HBP than most players year after year. It was not just a function of stance as these guys had very different stances and there are actually some guys who crowd the plate that do not get HBP as much as other guys. This may be why HBP is considered a more relevant "offensive" stat since under certain conditions can be brought about more often by an astute offensive player.
Without having access to every pitcher who threw to guys like hunt, every catcher who was calling pitches against him, or him, in order to get his side of the story, its pretty easy for people to guess why that is. My best guess is, players who got/get hit a lot more than normal, the defense figures they can’t handle inside pitches that move toward them very well at all, and thus pound the ball in with a steady diet of inside pitches. Let’s face it, it’s a lot easier to get doinked with a pitch in. Another reason COULD be those guys didn’t/don’t have the reflexes to get out of the way as well as other players, and another could be unlike most players, those guys weren’t bothered much by the fear of pain.
But in the end, a HBP is pretty much treated exactly the way a BB is treated. It’s a free pass that the defensive fielders never get the opportunity to make a play on and put the batter out. An ROE is something very different. The ball has been put in play, and that means there is an opportunity to put the batter out.
Its interesting to see how different people perceive the different things. I do a stat called LEAD OFF SUCCESS. I’m a pretty basic guy, and to keep it simple it works like this. If a player is the 1st batter in an inning, he’s credited with a LOO(Lead Off Opportunity). If he reaches safely, he’s credited with a LOS(Lead Off Success). I don’t care how he got there, the point is, he reached safely, it gave his team the chance to score a run.
Can’t get more basic or objective than that. FWIW, here’s an example of our last season’s numbers. Don't forget to scroll down.
http://www.infosports.com/scor...per/images/los01.pdf