10 yard times - question to PG

We just started timing the 10 yards last month.  We have not compiled enough data to come up with over all averages by position.  However we have timed several of the nation's top prospects.  Anything around 1.6 or better is excellent.  Anything over 1.75 is not so good.  however this involves high level talent.

 

I would say it will take at least a year before we can come up with averages, over all and by position and age.

So let me ask this because ive been trying to gauge this for a while...my son is in the low 1.4s and i have him on video htf from right side at 3.6 to 3.7...did this put him in the top of most high school players for 2015 grads?

Guess what?  his 60 time is 7.2...

Hard to get attention running a 7.2 at a combine, but come game time, never fails to show he can burn it up on the bases...

Glad to see the new direction...i have another one coming many years behind him who may really benifit from newer metrics and measurements.
Originally Posted by 5tools22:
So let me ask this because ive been trying to gauge this for a while...my son is in the low 1.4s and i have him on video htf from right side at 3.6 to 3.7...did this put him in the top of most high school players for 2015 grads?

Guess what?  his 60 time is 7.2...

Hard to get attention running a 7.2 at a combine, but come game time, never fails to show he can burn it up on the bases...

Glad to see the new direction...i have another one coming many years behind him who may really benifit from newer metrics and measurements.

My son is similar.   His best official 60 time is only 7.0.   But he has awesome range in the outfield, often makes what look at first like unmakeable plays.  And he is an truly an awesome baserunner -- a sight to behold.  Can't figure out why his 60 times don't reflect his game speed.     He says it's that extra kick of adrenaline he gets when he's going after a ball in the gap or trying to steal a base or legging out a triple.  Go figure.

Originally Posted by 5tools22:
So let me ask this because ive been trying to gauge this for a while...my son is in the low 1.4s and i have him on video htf from right side at 3.6 to 3.7...did this put him in the top of most high school players for 2015 grads?

Guess what?  his 60 time is 7.2...

I'm guessing there is some error in your H21 time.  A 7.2 runner does not run a 3.6, especially from the right side.  A 3.6 is world class quickness and speed.  He would have to try NOT to run fast in order to clock a 7.2.

 

Billy Hamilton has run a 3.3, which is ridiculous.  Here is Billy running a 3.64:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9A0Y3pobMvE

Originally Posted by lionbaseball:
Is the 10yd time a significant measuring tool for baseball in general?

I think so and I hope there is enough data to support it in the next year or so.  The first 10 yards of a sprint is extremely important.  My 2016 son has been clocked as quick as 6.8 and as slow as 7.4 for his 60 time this year.  I don't need a stop watch to tell you its his first 10 yards that makes the difference between a 6.8 or a 7.4.

I have long wondered why baseball uses the 60 as a determining factor for speed, when the max distance a runner typically makes is 90 feet. (that includes the OF) 

 

I think it is admirable that PG recognized this and is starting to measure and track this data. I would imagine over time the 10 and 40 will become the standard, but it takes some one like a PG to start the process. 

Redbird...ill send you the video and maybe you tell me if im wrong...its pretty easy to hear the contact and tell when he frosses the bag.  He blows guys away in combines for the first 20 yards then they pull away and run 6.5s.

I have videos of him htf at 3.6 and 3.7 on bunts...3.9-4.0 on full swings...doesnt make sense to me either...he says he just burns out after the first 25 yards...he runs bases extremely well, but those are 30 yard bursts then change direction.

I have him on video 1st to home on a single to right...that wasnt misplayed.

Wondering if this is a new trend.  I see the Area Code Games tests players in the 30 now, with the top SS's running 3.8-3.9 or faster.....  trying to get some good baselines and goals on these 30 & 10 yard times as my 14 year old (2021) has started training to improve his speed

The 60 yard sprint is a good measurement to have.  Home to first times and SB times are also good measurements. 30 yard times are good and so is the 40 yard sprint. However in my opinion the most important speed measurement of all is 10 yards or 30 feet.  It pertains to every position on the field.  If two outstanding middle infielders were timed at all the various distances, would you want the fastest 60, fastest 30, or fastest 10?

Usually the fast 10 will be one of the best 30s.  However we sometimes see great 60 times with slow 10 yard times. So what is more important in baseball... Early speed or late speed?  The first tree strides or the last three strides.  You could say both measurements are important in different ways... Speed or quickness!

Something very interesting that we have discovered...  In some cases we see slower 60 times that in the past would be considered too slow to play at a high level.  However they have a good 10 yard time and that tells a completely different story.

One more thing that is important to know... some run much faster in games than they do in workouts.  And most every player knows there are certain times they simply run faster than they normally do.  This usually happens in games.  So we try to get as many in game running times as possible.

My son never had a good 60 time in any showcase....7+ every time.....but was one of the fastest guys....and leading scorer on a very good varsity soccer team his senior year.  I can't tell you how many times I sat in the stands and heard people comment on his speed on the soccer field, yet in baseball he was always "too slow" even though he was an all-state SS his senior year lol.  I don't know many guys who have ever gotten a scholarship just because they were fast.....yes, it helps, but you still need to be able to hit, field or throw lol

3and2Fastball posted:

Wondering if this is a new trend.  I see the Area Code Games tests players in the 30 now, with the top SS's running 3.8-3.9 or faster.....  trying to get some good baselines and goals on these 30 & 10 yard times as my 14 year old (2021) has started training to improve his speed

my 2019 catcher ran 3.89 in the 30 yard this past winter in the AC training camps,  and i thought , about time they run the 30 , ac said that it was more baseball truth  base to base, 

I think that instincts and knowledge of the game can make a player's "effective speed" be faster or slower than his 60 time.  My son is the opposite of some mentioned - a blazing 60 time that doesn't always show up in games because he isn't a very instinctual player.

Maybe the biggest issue with placing too much value on running times is there is so much variance in technique.  We see a lot of bad technique that results in slower times than what someone might be capable of.  For sure instincts count in the shorter distances.  Also the problem with H1 times is that it is somewhat dependent on the type of swing a hitter has. SB times can also be confusing.  You can time the runner, but as far as being a good base stealer it involves reading the pitcher.  So you might run a fast time, but you took off later than someone else.  This is why we like to get as many times as possible.

Here is a drill that can really help in the shorter distances.  Good thing is you can work on a lot more short distance sprints than you can practice 60s.  Use a tape recorder of some fashion.  Record some music or other sounds.  Have some lead up sound or music that gets you to GO.  Take off on GO and recognize where you're at the end.  We normally use 2 seconds.  Place something, like tape at the distance you cover in the allotted time.  Then simply attempt to increase the distance you cover during that recorded time.  It does help if dad or someone is helping to spot finishing distance, but once you have your distance marked you just try to beat it.  Hope I explained well enough. Even without perfect technique you will find that you are running farther in the same amount of time.

When you can increase the distance you cover in a certain amount of time... You will absolutely know that you are running faster.  This is just a fairly easy way to work on it and get good results.

I have a different opinion, imo top end speed is more indicative of talent than acceleration even though acceleration might be more baseball specific. 

Acceleration is easy to improve with more strength. I was a shot putter and not running well but over 10 yards I could keep up with good sprinters due to my leg strength.

A top end speed runner can become a good starter with more leg strength. For example Usain bolt was super fast over 200 as a 17yo but a bad starter. But as he got stronger he improved his first 30m and now is there one of the best too.

But a guy with limited top speed will have a very hard time improving his max speed. Maximum running Velo is the best indicator of sprint talent,  sprinters use 30 meters with a flying start to evaluate that.

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