15u WWBA

I'm at the 15u WWBA tournament in GA this week with my 2020 son--first time for both of us at a PG event. He's scheduled to pitch this evening and I have a couple of questions: Does velo get posted for every pitcher at the event?  If so, then when?  My son's team played their first game yesterday. I looked at the PG profile of that game's P this morning and there are some data posted (which are incorrect) for Ks, ERA, etc., but no velo figures (although there was a PG person at the game with a radar gun).

I'm just curious. My son's team certainly is not a contender to win the tournament, so we are here just to enjoy the games and  to begin to get a sense of where he stands versus others in his class year. When should I expect to see some numbers about his outing?

Thanks in advance. 

Original Post

If you are playing at Lake Point, the velo is posted on the scoreboard after each pitch.

Game Stats get posted on the player's profile within hours (typically) after the game ends. The max velo recorded typically takes a few days before it is uploaded to the player's profile. That's been my experience.

@Chico Escuela

We had a similar experience with a small scoring discrepancy. We followed the advice given previously on this message board and contacted Staff@perfectgame.org, and they quickly made the change. They were very fast, and very helpful. If you have a concern that the outcome for your son's pitching performance isn't reflected properly, please reach out. Perfect Game has been on top of this! 

 

DesertDuck posted:

So parents can send an email saying hey....please correct his stats to this. And then BANG, he's batting 1.000 w/ bombs all over the place, etc.

Guess little Johnny can be a all-star after all?

garbage in/garbage out.....lol

Agree, but in my son's case they added a PA for a game and an AB. He only went to the plate once in the game and walked, which doesn't count as an AB. Therefore the calculations for that game are wrong and the therefore for the entire tournament. Even if they don't add the hit (which it appears they aren't), the 'correction" they made today was wrong and impacted his stat line negatively. I get it, we're all human, but come on, at least do this right. A WALK DOES NOT COUNT AS AN AT BAT!

DesertDuck posted:

So parents can send an email saying hey....please correct his stats to this. And then BANG, he's batting 1.000 w/ bombs all over the place, etc.

Guess little Johnny can be a all-star after all?

garbage in/garbage out.....lol

yeah but a Baseball dork like me video records my Kid's at bats, so I can send them "proof"  (!)

Most every team keeps a scorebook for their games.  So when there are discrepancies, we can almost always check other scorebooks.  In SanDiegoRealist case, there was an error made when he reported his son had an AB in a game where it showed he had none.  When discovering it was a walk, the AB was changed to no AB.

The problem with the other game was SanDiegoiRealist claimed his son went 2 for 2 with a Double, a single, A walk and a HBP. That is exactly what we had but our scorekeeper scored the single as an error.  Normally we couldn't change that, but in this case we knew the opposing team well and had them check their book.  They had it scored as a single.  So we decided to change it to a single.

So his son ended up with exactly the stat line that SanDiegoRealist claimed. 

DesertDuck,

No, it doesn't work the way you think.  However, the goal is to get it correct.  We know there are some problems reporting substitutions correctly.  We also know that scorekeepers are just like players... they make mistakes at times. We have ways of double checking for mistakes.  Most difficult are scorers judgment, things like when it is scored a hit or an error.

I should add what many already know... Stats are the least important of all the data we collect.  I wont go so far as to say they are unimportant, but they are more interesting than important.  Colleges don't recruit by using stats, MLB clubs don't draft by using stats.  However certain stats can create some interest.  Batting average in a tournament isn't one of those stats that draw much interest.  ERA isn't a stat that draws interest.  Point is the very best prospect at an event could have some of the worst stats at that event. 

That said, I can understand why everyone wants the stats to be correct and so do we..

PGStaff posted:

Most every team keeps a scorebook for their games.  So when there are discrepancies, we can almost always check other scorebooks.  In SanDiegoRealist case, there was an error made when he reported his son had an AB in a game where it showed he had none.  When discovering it was a walk, the AB was changed to no AB.

The problem with the other game was SanDiegoiRealist claimed his son went 2 for 2 with a Double, a single, A walk and a HBP. That is exactly what we had but our scorekeeper scored the single as an error.  Normally we couldn't change that, but in this case we knew the opposing team well and had them check their book.  They had it scored as a single.  So we decided to change it to a single.

So his son ended up with exactly the stat line that SanDiegoRealist claimed. 

DesertDuck,

No, it doesn't work the way you think.  However, the goal is to get it correct.  We know there are some problems reporting substitutions correctly.  We also know that scorekeepers are just like players... they make mistakes at times. We have ways of double checking for mistakes.  Most difficult are scorers judgment, things like when it is scored a hit or an error.

I should add what many already know... Stats are the least important of all the data we collect.  I wont go so far as to say they are unimportant, but they are more interesting than important.  Colleges don't recruit by using stats, MLB clubs don't draft by using stats.  However certain stats can create some interest.  Batting average in a tournament isn't one of those stats that draw much interest.  ERA isn't a stat that draws interest.  Point is the very best prospect at an event could have some of the worst stats at that event. 

That said, I can understand why everyone wants the stats to be correct and so do we..

For the record, I am for the new software but I do think that a greater emphasis/training will need to be implemented to those doing the scoring. I would like to hear more about the philosophy of stats not mattering to colleges or MLB. When stated before on this forum, that made sense because stats on GC are parent driven, etc.

However, now that the stats are able to be viewed on an individual PG profile, I would say that stats will matter more than ever. I get, and accept, that those doing the recruiting and scouting look to many things to do their jobs, but it doesn't make sense to create a software that was intended to be shown on profiles for them not to matter. People will be influenced by stats and they will use them as part of the process, especially in the higher profile tournaments. 

Elijah,

Agree that we need more good scorekeepers.  DiamondKast isn't any more difficult to use than scoring apps we have used before.  Obviously it takes a lot of good scorekeepers for these big tournaments.  Our goal is to find as many great scorekeepers as possible.

Everything is important, stats can be important.  The point I was trying to make is that out of all the data and information we gather, traditional stats are not the most important to college recruiters and MLB Scouts. If stats were that important the scouts and recruiters could just stay home and look at the stats. We noticed many years ago that the very best teams, loaded with DI commits, that play deep into the playoffs... Never seem to have the best hitting stats.  Yet we know they have a lot of the best hitters.  What happens is everyone they play tends to throw their best pitcher against those teams.  So they actually face much tougher competition even though everyone is playing in the same tournament.  My point is the stats can be very misleading.

I will say this, there are some stats that really are revealing.  K/BB for pitchers and K, XBH, HR, and advanced stats for hitters, for example.  Things like launch angle and exit velocity are becoming more important.  I wish we could compile average exit velocity on every fair ball, maybe we can at some point.

Anyway, I hope you are right about statistics mattering more than ever.  College coaches and scouts were raving about DiamondKast mostly because they could be at one game and see what was going on at another.  The number one thing they talked about was being able to get velocity readings on the pitchers with a scoring app..

I think stats become more important as they accumulate over time.  Our goal is to do more with advanced metrics/stats/data.

 

PGStaff posted:

Elijah,

Agree that we need more good scorekeepers.  DiamondKast isn't any more difficult to use than scoring apps we have used before.  Obviously it takes a lot of good scorekeepers for these big tournaments.  Our goal is to find as many great scorekeepers as possible.

Everything is important, stats can be important.  The point I was trying to make is that out of all the data and information we gather, traditional stats are not the most important to college recruiters and MLB Scouts. If stats were that important the scouts and recruiters could just stay home and look at the stats. We noticed many years ago that the very best teams, loaded with DI commits, that play deep into the playoffs... Never seem to have the best hitting stats.  Yet we know they have a lot of the best hitters.  What happens is everyone they play tends to throw their best pitcher against those teams.  So they actually face much tougher competition even though everyone is playing in the same tournament.  My point is the stats can be very misleading.

I will say this, there are some stats that really are revealing.  K/BB for pitchers and K, XBH, HR, and advanced stats for hitters, for example.  Things like launch angle and exit velocity are becoming more important.  I wish we could compile average exit velocity on every fair ball, maybe we can at some point.

Anyway, I hope you are right about statistics mattering more than ever.  College coaches and scouts were raving about DiamondKast mostly because they could be at one game and see what was going on at another.  The number one thing they talked about was being able to get velocity readings on the pitchers with a scoring app..

I think stats become more important as they accumulate over time.  Our goal is to do more with advanced metrics/stats/data.

 

I saw a PG facebook post today about the top pitchers (16u's) and velocity. Looked like the top 50; not one under 93; top 98. So the question becomes (for a dad of a young pitcher), what is the hierarchy of things to look for in pitchers?

So there is velocity. Then what is it? Strike Outs? Walks? Swing and misses? If 94 is the new 90, what is the new velocity?

I'd echo Elijah's question. Thoughts on it would be appreciated. 

My 15U isn't a top prospect (though he hopes to play in college), so this week's WWBA doesn't mean much more than experience for him. But I wonder what to tell him to aim for. Earlier in the week he had a good outing vs the team that looks on track to win his pool (3 innings, 6 Ks, gave up one single, no ER). But his velo was a few mph slower than his usual (he pitched at nearly midnight, which may be one reason). I assumed that velocity was going to be the main thing, and that the outing wasn't going to be a plus because of his radar gun numbers. No?  He will pitch at least once more this week--what is most important to his showing well?

It is control and command and secondary pitches.  We had over 200 pitchers throw 90 or better at the 17u.  Many of those pitchers were 94 or better.  A couple -pitchers we selected for the All American game are two outstanding lefties that can really pitch and a RHP with the best curve ball we have seen in a HS pitcher. We have a few this year that throw 97-98 at times and they can pitch.

Big velocity and can't throw strikes is interesting, but lower velocity that can be thrown where it is effective is better.  Still, a certain amount of velocity is extremely important. I always check K/BB, swings and misses are good, but called strikes are just as important. IMO

Does he have good movement?  (Guys in the 90's that are pretty straight will get hit hard as they climb the ladder)

How good are his secondary pitches? (Guys who rely primarily on their FB will get hit hard as they climb the ladder)

Can he locate?  (and not just with the FB)

Can he pitch? (Does he know how to use his tools situationally against really good hitters?)

Does he compete?  (I'm not talking generically.  Is he a man among boys with his competitive edge? )

cabbagedad posted:

Does he have good movement?  (Guys in the 90's that are pretty straight will get hit hard as they climb the ladder)

How good are his secondary pitches? (Guys who rely primarily on their FB will get hit hard as they climb the ladder)

Can he locate?  (and not just with the FB)

Can he pitch? (Does he know how to use his tools situationally against really good hitters?)

Does he compete?  (I'm not talking generically.  Is he a man among boys with his competitive edge? )

Nice checklist. 

Agreed Cabbagedad's list is useful (thanks).  PGStaff's also (thanks, too). But Cabbagedad's items require seeing a pitcher in person, no?  I think I know the answer, but: Is my son's PG profile of much use other than to show what his velo is as measured by a trusted third party?  15U players throwing 90 will get noticed.  But 2020 pitchers in the 80-85 mph range can't offer much in their WWBA stats that will distinguish them, can they?  Ks per 7 and Ks to BBs tells you something, but unless you know the team(s) the numbers were posted against, do they tell you much? 

Not knocking WWBA--it has been fun and it was great for my son to see  some of the best players in his age group. I'm just trying to get a better feel for what the online info will be used and useful for. 

Chico Escuela posted:

Agreed Cabbagedad's list is useful (thanks).  PGStaff's also (thanks, too). But Cabbagedad's items require seeing a pitcher in person, no?  I think I know the answer, but: Is my son's PG profile of much use other than to show what his velo is as measured by a trusted third party?  15U players throwing 90 will get noticed.  But 2020 pitchers in the 80-85 mph range can't offer much in their WWBA stats that will distinguish them, can they?  Ks per 7 and Ks to BBs tells you something, but unless you know the team(s) the numbers were posted against, do they tell you much? 

Not knocking WWBA--it has been fun and it was great for my son to see  some of the best players in his age group. I'm just trying to get a better feel for what the online info will be used and useful for. 

First, YES, you are correct... the things I list need to be seen in person. 

Second (PGStaff will be way more qualified to answer this than I but I'll address it anyway), for many PG events, players earn a rating based on a number of things that PG evaluators look at.  For many events, there will be write-ups and/or summaries of player performances.  I'm not sure if and how much this applies to this particular event.  But, if player is getting a PG rating, many of the things I mention are part of what goes into that rating.

Actually, 85 is outstanding for a 2020 grad or 16 year old.  Yes, you have to see those 80-85 kids pitch.  as everyone knows there can be a world of difference between pitchers that throw around that velocity. Yes, there are some statistics that will show that, but nothing beats seeing the pitcher compete.

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