I can't believe this hasn't been brought up yet... just thought I'd open the door.
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The Bell family....LOL enough said.
They have been suspended indefinitely and UCLA is reviewing the situation. They are obviously very fortunate to be back in the US with no charges pending but they are still paying a price for their actions. Anyone who has ever played competitive sports knows that not playing due to injury, suspension, etc., absolutely sucks!!!! They are also having to sit down in front of the national media and discuss their dumb decisions which will be archived forever. Seems like fair enough punishment to me for first time offense. Don't forget these players are still teenagers...6 months removed from high school.
I would say a year suspension from the team is reasonable, though probably fairly light considering the POTUS had to get involved to keep their butts out of a Chinese jail for a few years. Gotta wonder how a college kid in the US will feel when he steals a pair of shades and doesn't have the luxury of having that kind of pull to get their charges dropped.
I'm sure folks will remember the 2012 CWS where a P5 player (starting DH, freshman) and his brother were arrested for shoplifting CWS merchandise in Omaha on eve of the team's first game. Both player and brother were arrested and jailed. Charges were eventually dropped and they were released.
The player was 19 years old. Was suspended from team "indefinitely" at time, not sure by who? NCAA or school or HC or what?
Some time later, HC said publicly that the kid made a mistake and that HC "believed in 2nd chances. But not 3rd chances."
Following year player was reinstated but was stripped of his scholarship. Kid was on roster that next year but never saw field due to injury. Ended up transferring to a JUCO, then got picked up by another P5 the following year. Now playing pro ball.
So, in that case kid was stripped of scholarship at the school, but was allowed to play following season, but ended up not playing due to injury.
All on the web.
Despite being a diehard UCLA basketball fan (neighbors heard me when Tyus Eddy went end to end on Missouri - went on to win it all) I believe they should be tossed out of school for a year. They embarrassed the university, the country and the basketball world. If they don’t come back, so what. No player is bigger than the game. What doesn’t seem to be getting much play is they stoled items from three different stores.
Bonus - Haven’t heard from the loudmouth father in days
When I first heard of this, I thought the Chinese gov't handled this well. This could have gone sideways in a hurry, but didn't.
The Ball family just likes to make news whether it is good or bad....it doesn't matter. I'm waiting for the Ball father to figure out a way to cash in on this incident. Wait for it.....it's coming.
fenwaysouth posted:When I first heard of this, I thought the Chinese gov't handled this well. This could have gone sideways in a hurry, but didn't.
The Ball family just likes to make news whether it is good or bad....it doesn't matter. I'm waiting for the Ball father to figure out a way to cash in on this incident. Wait for it.....it's coming.
Lonzo is a class act. The dad is an ass act. LiAngelo is obviously a brain dead, pampered jock who didn’t understand consequences until the Chinese police showed up at his door. It’s mind boggling these kids didn’t consider where they were before turning stupid. I don’t believe dad can be humbled. I’m betting the kid is. The youngest brother would be wise to use Lonzo as a role model.
THIS JUST CAME OVER WIRE:
”UCLA Basketball cancelling next year’s goodwill trip to North Korea.”
I don't know about the other two kids but LiAngelo may have cost himself several million in future earnings with this mistake.
I don't think getting kicked out of school is warranted. Make them stay in school...stay out of trouble and let them come back next year. Kids do stupid things....the fact that this was in China magnified it. I don't think it was worth 3 years in jail, but I also don't feel like UCLA can just look at it the same as if they swiped the glasses from a store down the street from campus
Where is character? Those kids didn't just wake up one day to STUPID...That's a trait they've been nurturing for awhile! There's no excuse, but somewhat defective parenting, imo. Somehow they missed the lessons on right & wrong, if indeed, it was ever taught.
They get to stay in school, keep their scholarship money, but not play. One criteria, they have to wear MAGA hats the whole time on campus.
baseballmom posted:Where is character? Those kids didn't just wake up one day to STUPID...That's a trait they've been nurturing for awhile! There's no excuse, but somewhat defective parenting, imo. Somehow they missed the lessons on right & wrong, if indeed, it was ever taught.
As one mom to another, way to go! What kind of parents do these kids have? If it were mine, he would know you don't mess around when you are representing your school and country. If he did, he would wanna stay there because he would be in a hell of a lot of trouble with his mom and dad.
Father Ball was on the trip doing business for his shoe line. This sounds like a business deal was struck.
Our country looks bad enough to the rest of the world. Chinese think we are fools as it is.
Let's stop making excuses that they are just kids. Most kids with parents who parent know better.
TPM posted:baseballmom posted:Where is character? Those kids didn't just wake up one day to STUPID...That's a trait they've been nurturing for awhile! There's no excuse, but somewhat defective parenting, imo. Somehow they missed the lessons on right & wrong, if indeed, it was ever taught.
As one mom to another, way to go! What kind of parents do these kids have? If it were mine, he would know you don't mess around when you are representing your school and country. If he did, he would wanna stay there because he would be in a hell of a lot of trouble with his mom and dad.
Father Ball was on the trip doing business for his shoe line. This sounds like a business deal was struck.
Our country looks bad enough to the rest of the world. Chinese think we are fools as it is.
Let's stop making excuses that they are just kids. Most kids with parents who parent know better.
Suspended from team one year at least. That should be enough. Some kind of community service as well, 40 hours minimum! UCLA should enforce this and I’d be somewhat ok at this point!
TPM posted:baseballmom posted:Where is character? Those kids didn't just wake up one day to STUPID...That's a trait they've been nurturing for awhile! There's no excuse, but somewhat defective parenting, imo. Somehow they missed the lessons on right & wrong, if indeed, it was ever taught.
As one mom to another, way to go! What kind of parents do these kids have? If it were mine, he would know you don't mess around when you are representing your school and country. If he did, he would wanna stay there because he would be in a hell of a lot of trouble with his mom and dad.
Father Ball was on the trip doing business for his shoe line. This sounds like a business deal was struck.
Our country looks bad enough to the rest of the world. Chinese think we are fools as it is.
Let's stop making excuses that they are just kids. Most kids with parents who parent know better.
This trip was a lot bigger than Lavar Ball, his mouth and Big Baller sneakers. Alibaba sponsored the trip. It was in conjunction with Aliaba having the advertising rights for the premier of the PAC 12 Network being broadcast in China starting with the basketball season. What the PAC 12 sees in the deal is exposure for the colleges in the conference for international students (high priced tuition). So the players also embarrassed the PAC 12 and Alibaba.
RJM posted:TPM posted:baseballmom posted:Where is character? Those kids didn't just wake up one day to STUPID...That's a trait they've been nurturing for awhile! There's no excuse, but somewhat defective parenting, imo. Somehow they missed the lessons on right & wrong, if indeed, it was ever taught.
As one mom to another, way to go! What kind of parents do these kids have? If it were mine, he would know you don't mess around when you are representing your school and country. If he did, he would wanna stay there because he would be in a hell of a lot of trouble with his mom and dad.
Father Ball was on the trip doing business for his shoe line. This sounds like a business deal was struck.
Our country looks bad enough to the rest of the world. Chinese think we are fools as it is.
Let's stop making excuses that they are just kids. Most kids with parents who parent know better.
This trip was a lot bigger than Lavar Ball, his mouth and Big Baller sneakers. Alibaba sponsored the trip. It was in conjunction with Aliaba having the advertising rights for the premier of the PAC 12 Network being broadcast in China starting with the basketball season. What the PAC 12 sees in the deal is exposure for the colleges in the conference for international students (high priced tuition). So the players also embarrassed the PAC 12 and Alibaba.
I didnt know all of that, other than some type of business deal was going on.
Makes me even angrier.
RJM posted:Despite being a diehard UCLA basketball fan (neighbors heard me when Tyus Eddy went end to end on Missouri - went on to win it all) I believe they should be tossed out of school for a year. They embarrassed the university, the country and the basketball world. If they don’t come back, so what. No player is bigger than the game. What doesn’t seem to be getting much play is they stoled items from three different stores.
Bonus - Haven’t heard from the loudmouth father in days
Maybe Trump sent dad there to serve his kid's dime.
LiAngelo won't learn a thing. What an embarrassment to the university. Should've left them in China. 3 stores....i bet they've done it elsewhere before.
Shoveit4Ks posted:LiAngelo won't learn a thing. What an embarrassment to the university. Should've left them in China. 3 stores....i bet they've done it elsewhere before.
no doubt
coachld posted:Don't forget these players are still teenagers...6 months removed from high school.
That's no an excuse. Millions of high school kids and young adults get through life without engaging in that kind of behavior in the United States, let alone while representing their nation and a fairly prestigious university oversees. Why should they be held to a lower standard just because of their age?
RJM posted:TPM posted:baseballmom posted:Where is character? Those kids didn't just wake up one day to STUPID...That's a trait they've been nurturing for awhile! There's no excuse, but somewhat defective parenting, imo. Somehow they missed the lessons on right & wrong, if indeed, it was ever taught.
As one mom to another, way to go! What kind of parents do these kids have? If it were mine, he would know you don't mess around when you are representing your school and country. If he did, he would wanna stay there because he would be in a hell of a lot of trouble with his mom and dad.
Father Ball was on the trip doing business for his shoe line. This sounds like a business deal was struck.
Our country looks bad enough to the rest of the world. Chinese think we are fools as it is.
Let's stop making excuses that they are just kids. Most kids with parents who parent know better.
So the players also embarrassed the PAC 12 and Alibaba.
And maybe their entire nation????
Goodwill Series has sent baseball teams to China, Korea, Japan and Australia for 35 years. It is always important to inform our players and parents and coaches of the culture and the environment of the Country they are visiting.
The players have been protected their entire life and now by the President.
In China, stealing is a very, very serious offense!!!. The NBA is now alerted.
Bob
It's just another example of the "Entitled" generation. When the Ball kid drives a $200k Ferrari at the age of 19, he thinks everything should be his if he wants it. If his parents can afford the car, they can afford the items he stole so no excuses for not paying for them. I would be shocked if this was his 1st time to do something like this.
Before Team USA baseball travels out of the country there is a lecture about the culture and do's/don'ts for each country being visited. Equally important is how to conduct yourself since representing USA. That being said we all can look back on our college days and think of the stupid things we did (hopefully not of this magnitude). These players are adults though not of legal age 21. The opportunity to play college sports is a privilege and in NCAA eyes they are viewed as "students/athletes", meaning they are students first and athletes are by their choice. That being said, UCLA should set an example of what a higher educational institution should do and immediately kick them off team but permit them to attend UCLA for an education. This essentially punishes them by taking away their privilege. They will probably transfer then they will have to abide by the NCAA transfer rules or whatever penalty NCAA will impose.
Iowamom23 posted:coachld posted:Don't forget these players are still teenagers...6 months removed from high school.
That's no an excuse. Millions of high school kids and young adults get through life without engaging in that kind of behavior in the United States, let alone while representing their nation and a fairly prestigious university oversees. Why should they be held to a lower standard just because of their age?
This is basically where I'm at. Yes, young college kids will make mistakes. But come on. This is UCLA. This is China. You know darn well there was specific instruction prior to the trip regarding the stringent rules and serious consequences for any mis-steps. You know darn well that the UCLA way is preached often to their student-athletes. I can't imagine that these players were not reminded more than once that they are not only representing themselves and their renowned university but also their country on this particular trip.
I am trying to keep politics out of conversations here, but regardless of party, I think it was a big blunder for the prez to get involved in bailing these guys out so quickly. We are feeding fuel to the entitlement problem. I think it is ridiculous that they were allowed to stay in their 5-star hotel while awaiting legal outcome. That's not how everyone else is treated there when they are guilty of same actions. They should have at least been exposed to the process of how things really are for the rest of society when they perform stupid and illegal acts. Yes, don't leave them there for 3 to 5 for shoplifting but at least let them get a taste of reality and let them experience the fear of possible repercussions.
I watched the Ball script-read apology. I was waiting to pick up on one ounce of sincerity. It never came. He is much more a product of his dad than his brother is. When dad was talking the first few days of the incident, he never once said yeah, he made a big mistake and there should be consequences. All he said was "he'll be fine, it's no big deal". "And, yes, I still plan on having my pop-up shop here in China". Way to go, dad. I could throw up.
Texas 2 Sons posted:It's just another example of the "Entitled" generation. When the Ball kid drives a $200k Ferrari at the age of 19, he thinks everything should be his if he wants it. If his parents can afford the car, they can afford the items he stole so no excuses for not paying for them. I would be shocked if this was his 1st time to do something like this.
The car has nothing to do with it. Lonzo was given an $85,000 car when he was in high school. He’s quiet and humble. There are athletes who steal who don’t have expensive cars. It’s more about a percentage of college athletes with an attitude they’re so valuable to the program they will be bailed out if any situation.
Iowamom23 posted:coachld posted:Don't forget these players are still teenagers...6 months removed from high school.
That's no an excuse. Millions of high school kids and young adults get through life without engaging in that kind of behavior in the United States, let alone while representing their nation and a fairly prestigious university oversees. Why should they be held to a lower standard just because of their age?
How are they being held to a lower standard? If they made the same dumb decision in the U.S., and did not have prior convictions, they more then likely would be convicted of a misdemeanor with possible fines, restitution, community service. In addition, they more then likely would have to report that conviction on future job applications. They are currently suspended indefinitely while UCLA reviews the situation. Their names and their actions were front page sporting news this past week and as I previously mentioned, archived forever on the web. With UCLA reviewing the situation, I would think that there may still be additional penalties/punishment for these players.
I understand why so many feel like they should be punished to the fullest but I work in a high school and see good kids make dumb decisions. I really do believe in 2nd and 3rd chances as I was one of those same kids and yes, it had a lot to do with my home life and parents who were not around. Without those chances and people continuing to support me, there is a very good chance that my life would have turned out much differently (not in a good way).
I also think it is important to understand that a teenagers brain is not fully developed....in particular the frontal lobe which is responsible for decision making. As adults, this part of the brain is obviously fully developed which is why we look at a situation like this and say "what the hell were they thinking?" A teenagers response, if being honest, would probably be, "I wasn't thinking."
*** Scott (PAC 12 Commissioner) was on a high-speed train to Shanghai when he received a call about the shoplifting incident. He wouldn’t say what he thought the punishment should be for UCLA freshmen LiAngelo Ball, Cody Riley and Jalen Hall, but predicted it would be “quite significant.” ***
I’m wondering if this is what he thought would happen in China or what he’s going to do to them now that they’re back. This trip was more a PAC 12 event than a UCLA event. The PAC 12 Network is debuting in China starting with the basketball season.
coachld posted:Iowamom23 posted:coachld posted:Don't forget these players are still teenagers...6 months removed from high school.
That's no an excuse. Millions of high school kids and young adults get through life without engaging in that kind of behavior in the United States, let alone while representing their nation and a fairly prestigious university oversees. Why should they be held to a lower standard just because of their age?
How are they being held to a lower standard? If they made the same dumb decision in the U.S., and did not have prior convictions, they more then likely would be convicted of a misdemeanor with possible fines, restitution, community service. In addition, they more then likely would have to report that conviction on future job applications. They are currently suspended indefinitely while UCLA reviews the situation. Their names and their actions were front page sporting news this past week and as I previously mentioned, archived forever on the web. With UCLA reviewing the situation, I would think that there may still be additional penalties/punishment for these players.
I understand why so many feel like they should be punished to the fullest but I work in a high school and see good kids make dumb decisions. I really do believe in 2nd and 3rd chances as I was one of those same kids and yes, it had a lot to do with my home life and parents who were not around. Without those chances and people continuing to support me, there is a very good chance that my life would have turned out much differently (not in a good way).
I also think it is important to understand that a teenagers brain is not fully developed....in particular the frontal lobe which is responsible for decision making. As adults, this part of the brain is obviously fully developed which is why we look at a situation like this and say "what the hell were they thinking?" A teenagers response, if being honest, would probably be, "I wasn't thinking."
My point is the majority of kids do think and don't do this kind of thing. I think it's unfair to them to say "oh well, they're just teenagers." Does that mean every teenager who steals or cheats deserves a pass because he or she "wasn't thinking"?
I don't think that thinking ends well.
cabbagedad posted:Iowamom23 posted:coachld posted:Don't forget these players are still teenagers...6 months removed from high school.
That's no an excuse. Millions of high school kids and young adults get through life without engaging in that kind of behavior in the United States, let alone while representing their nation and a fairly prestigious university oversees. Why should they be held to a lower standard just because of their age?
This is basically where I'm at. Yes, young college kids will make mistakes. But come on. This is UCLA. This is China. You know darn well there was specific instruction prior to the trip regarding the stringent rules and serious consequences for any mis-steps. You know darn well that the UCLA way is preached often to their student-athletes. I can't imagine that these players were not reminded more than once that they are not only representing themselves and their renowned university but also their country.
I am trying to keep politics out of conversations here, but regardless of party, I think it was a big blunder for the prez to get involved in bailing these guys out so quickly. We are feeding fuel to the entitlement problem. I think it is ridiculous that they were allowed to stay in their 5-star hotel while awaiting legal outcome. That's not how everyone else is treated there when they are guilty of same actions. They should have at least been exposed to the process of how things really are for the rest of society when they perform stupid and illegal acts. Yes, don't leave them there for 3 to 5 for shoplifting but at least let them get a taste of reality and let them experience the fear of possible repercussions.
I watched the Ball script-read apology. I was waiting to pick up on one ounce of sincerity. It never came. He is much more a product of his dad than his brother is. When dad was talking the first few days of the incident, he never once said yeah, he made a big mistake and there should be consequences. All he said was "he'll be fine, it's no big deal". "And, yes, I still plan on having my pop-up shop here in China". Way to go, dad. I could throw up.
I realize China isn't North Korea, but that story about Otto Warmbler who died in North Korea after I believe stealing a flag or a sign in public, is fresh enough that kids ought to understand the consequences overseas are very different from consequences at home. These guys are lucky to be just suspended from their team, rather than doing hard labor somewhere for the next few years.
Where do I find Trump's cell number? My son hasn't done anything stupid yet....but if he does, being that he is a college student that likely just "wasn't thinking" I'm expecting the POTUS to take care of it 
I think the way China handled this situation was pretty impressive. This could have turned into a much bigger mess. Have to wonder what might have happened had three Chinese students been arrested for theft in the USA. Anyway it seems to me that if an American citizen is charged with theft, no matter where the theft took place, he should be charged with theft here in the USA. Seems like there should be a trial. Or do our laws not pertain to crimes committed outside the country? Unfortunately I believe I know the answer to that question. So if not charged in the USA, does it even go on their record? Guess, unofficially it will be. Personally because of the media I think those three have been punished much more than most would be in their situation. I mean everyone knows what they did and they have to live with it now. That doesn't happen to most young people who are caught stealing.
On a somewhat different topic, wonder how long before PaPa Ball starts blaming Luke Walton for things? Lonzo has spent the entire last two 4th quarters of close games on the bench.
PGStaff posted:I think the way China handled this situation was pretty impressive. This could have turned into a much bigger mess. Have to wonder what might have happened had three Chinese students been arrested for theft in the USA. Anyway it seems to me that if an American citizen is charged with theft, no matter where the theft took place, he should be charged with theft here in the USA. Seems like there should be a trial. Or do our laws not pertain to crimes committed outside the country? Unfortunately I believe I know the answer to that question. So if not charged in the USA, does it even go on their record? Guess, unofficially it will be. Personally because of the media I think those three have been punished much more than most would be in their situation. I mean everyone knows what they did and they have to live with it now. That doesn't happen to most young people who are caught stealing.
On a somewhat different topic, wonder how long before PaPa Ball starts blaming Luke Walton for things? Lonzo has spent the entire last two 4th quarters of close games on the bench.
Other than LiAngelo Ball (due to his loudmouth father) no one will remember the names of the other two players by next week. I’ll bet most people don’t know their names now.
Young men often display poor judgement. That's why their car insurance is so expensive, and why rental companies don't want to rent to them.
And there is this:
http://www.king5.com/news/grap...kanogan-co/492519236
RJM, You're probably right about the other two, depending on how their basketball careers go. My point is most young people arrested for shop lifting aren't featured on ESPN, USA Today, Fox, and pretty much every news outlet in the country. Heck, it even made the HSBBW.
PGStaff posted:I think the way China handled this situation was pretty impressive. This could have turned into a much bigger mess. Have to wonder what might have happened had three Chinese students been arrested for theft in the USA. Anyway it seems to me that if an American citizen is charged with theft, no matter where the theft took place, he should be charged with theft here in the USA. Seems like there should be a trial. Or do our laws not pertain to crimes committed outside the country? Unfortunately I believe I know the answer to that question. So if not charged in the USA, does it even go on their record? Guess, unofficially it will be. Personally because of the media I think those three have been punished much more than most would be in their situation. I mean everyone knows what they did and they have to live with it now. That doesn't happen to most young people who are caught stealing.
On a somewhat different topic, wonder how long before PaPa Ball starts blaming Luke Walton for things? Lonzo has spent the entire last two 4th quarters of close games on the bench.
Oh, he has already come out and said that Lonzo isn't playing enough, and that was back when Lonzo was playing most of the 4th quarter:
All I know is if this were my son it wouldn't matter what UCLA did or didn't do. He would report directly to the house. Everything would be reevaluated. He would get a job and have to earn his way back. He would have forfeited his opportunity to represent anything until he earned it back. Stay in school? No way. You tarnished your name, your families name and embarrassed your nation. Now you will spend as much time as I feel is needed to earn your way back.
Does anyone believe that on a trip to China they decided to steal for the first time? I would have no respect for any parent that didn't take the lead in the rehabilitation and punishment role. If they are kids they have no business being in a position that requires the actions of a man. Stay home , grow up, then go back to college.
Drawing a blank on the player, but former NFL player pulled his son off Nebraska's football team after he got caught with marijuana. Shoplifting overseas? Yeah, not a wise decision...
Bulldog 19 posted:Drawing a blank on the player, but former NFL player pulled his son off Nebraska's football team after he got caught with marijuana. Shoplifting overseas? Yeah, not a wise decision...
Keyshawn Johnson