Are keyboards creating high-school coach killers?

Iowamom23 posted:

2020dad posted:

RJM posted:

2020dad posted:

coach2709 posted:

I will readily agree there is a ton of blame to go around to MANY stakeholders.  Also, in my experience the best principals are the ones who have coached before.  They get it because they went through it.

In terms of the scrutinizing aspect I'm wrapping up my 6th year as AD at my school.  I have yet to have a parent come up and say "coach so and so is doing a really good job.  I'm glad they are our coach".  But I have definitely heard "coach so and so is terrible.  You need to fire him".  I always reply with "and replace them with who? Nobody is lining up to take the job because they don't want to hear it from you".  Luckily I have the principal I do because I tell parents the truth.  I do it as nicely and professionally I can but it will always be the truth.  I won't be surprised if I get fired with a new principal.

Lol.  Well I hope you don't.  But agree about principals who have coached.  I only had one of those but yes he was a lot more rational.  These days you don't find many principals who were coaches.  

In middle school there was a new female principal who never played sports. By spring of her first year she decided to handle parental complaints with everyone makes the team with equal playing time. 26 baseball players shared 7 innings.

The next year my son and all the other good baseball players signed up for lacrosse. Due to the physicality of lacrosse kids wouldn’t sign up just to be on the team. They weren’t quitting baseball. They were on travel teams. But they weren’t going to waste their time with 26 players in practice and games. 

The high school varsity baseball coach freaked out. He was afraid these kids would like lacrosse and not play baseball in high school. He had to use the might of the board to rescind the principal’s rule. 

And that right there is what I am talking about.  In reality they simply despise sports and in some cases despise any kind of exceptionalism unless it is in one of their pet areas like music or art.  Imagine telling the play director the lead role has to be shared by everyone.  Or the band director that everyone must rotate instruments during a concert.  OMG they would flip out.  They would hyperventilate in an overly dramatic meltdown.  As athletic people we are second class citizens now.  Hmmmm.  been a while since I started a thread...  gonna give that some thought.  Would be interesting to see how many out there are feeling the same, like they are looked down upon  condescendingly.

So clearly you don't spend a lot of time with arts people. If you did, you'd hear the theatre director complain about being forced to do huge production shows so everyone can have a role. You'd hear parents at rehearsals complain that their kid would make a much better (whatever the lead is) than the kid who has the part, etc., etc., and so on. And you'd hear staff angry because the baseball field just got new lights while the curtains over the stage are falling apart.

Whatever group you're in, the tendency is to think that your group is treated like second class citizens and other people are getting something you're not. That's not just in high school, think about the fights between rural areas who think people in town get services they don't, or people in town who are mad that farmers get subsidies they don't.

Seems to me we'd all be better off if we just worry about finding the best experience possible for our own child, and not worry about what other kids, other teams and other activities are getting or what they are thinking.

Actually I guess it comes down to the interpretation of what 'a lot of time' means.  Having been in education many years and having two daughters go through drama program I think I have but perhaps you would think not.  At any rate suffice to say I am not unfamiliar.  And yes I hear them complain.  But I am more talking about what is trending.  Its very true that Athletics 40 years ago received way way more funding attention admiration etc.  Now not so much.  Keep your ear to the ground and you will find the pendulum is swinging.  And I think its great that my daughter went to a school which is very new and the auditorium is state of the art.  I don't want these kids to be second class citizens.  I personally am more of a sports guy but appreciate other things.  It doesn't always work that way for the arts people.  They walk around often with pride at knowing nothing about sports. "oh is that where the  ball goes through the thing and then you get points or something"  My own daughter acts like this sometimes and I remind her that I enjoy the theater.  I wouldn't go around saying "you now that monster of the opera house or something"  That smugness makes you less intelligent not more.  I am not a theatrical expert by any means but could at least accurately name many classic productions.  However we as athletic people are more and more looked at as backwards ingrates.  

Iowamom23 posted:

Seems to me we'd all be better off if we just worry about finding the best experience possible for our own child.....

I am very thankful that we live in a time where there are other options to choose besides High School Baseball.   Here in Wisconsin, High School Baseball is essentially a 5 week season because of weather related issues.

In response to other comments:  I have coached, both at the high school level & travel ball.  I've coached kids in multiple high schools across our region and talk to coaches, parents, players & former players on a regular basis and have a pretty good idea of what goes on.

I've seen coaches violate rules as they have their "winter workouts" be team practices and essentially extended tryout times.  I've seen coaches (at high school's other than my kid's) start players who are the sons of their biggest boosters and have losing season after losing season and seemingly not care.  I've heard coaches at parents meetings say that they like coaching because it "keeps them young" and then schedule 5 day road trips in preseason for their team where they play 1 game and the rest of the time it is rock climbing and go cart racing etc (all on the parents dime) when meanwhile back at home the program can't afford one decent batting tee.

I've seen kid's arms destroyed.  I've seen kid's mentality destroyed.  I've seen antiquated mechanics "taught".  I've seen weeks of practices go by where kids don't get ground balls hit to them.  I've seen dozens of games where kids don't get pregame BP.  I've seen coaches threaten kids with never playing Varsity if they don't play summer legion with the school.

I could go on & on.  I've been on the inside and seen so much.

I'm very, very glad there are other options.

Meant to add: and yes I've coached multiple times in recent years with teams that my Kid had no involvement in.

Coach_May posted:

It is very easy to sit back and take shots at people. Coaches are no different. Do I have to say it again? Ok I will go ahead and say it. There are bad coaches. There are average coaches. There are good coaches. But before people simply take shots I wish they could consider some things. How many of those people taking shots have ever gone to a game their son was not playing in? How invested will they be in this program once their kid is no longer in it? When was the last time they missed time with their family to spend it with someone else's kid? When was the last time they spent 3 hours in a day working with other people's kids? Have they ever had to make out a line up? Have they ever had to cut a player? Have they ever been responsible for anything other than just making sure their kid was there? 

I know I spend way more time with other peoples kids than I do with my own family. I have no idea how it will break down this year but I doubt I make more than a couple bucks an hour. It's very easy to bash and trash. What have these bashers and trashers done? Graced us with letting us coach their stud? Before he was here we never saw you. After he leaves we will never see you again. But while you are here your going to make sure we do things the way you think they should be done. Ok.

I think some people would benefit from having to invest a little more in the process than just dropping the kid off at school and picking him up after practice. Maybe look a little deeper and put yourself in someone else's shoes? I say all of this and have ZERO complaints with my parents. They are awesome. They support our program and they have raised some great young men. I challenge anyone who has never coached to coach. I challenge those who find themselves constantly having issues with coaches to coach. Maybe that would help you out. 

I wish everyone of my players could start. I wish everyone of my players would have a great game. I wish everyone of my players was happy and right where they wanted to be 100 percent of the time. But guess what life isn't like that. Maybe learning to deal with a bad coach is more of a blessing than having a good coach? Maybe we get exactly what were supposed to get to make us who we need to be? Maybe if we stop allowing ourselves to be victims we can find a way to be champions? But that dang Coach he just screws it all up. It's ok Coach. In a few years it will be the boss. It will be the Cop. It will be the wife. You will be replaced by something else. Victims are like that. They have no shortage of excuses to find. Don't get mad at them. That's just what they do. 

 

Before I Paste the following let me preface it.  My son has generally been one of the main players on any team he played on so we have NEVER complained about playing time.  He was a bench player on an AAU team that was really really good and it elevated his game just practicing with them and getting some minutes in games.  We were delighted with the coach and the experience.  He could not do three sports at a high level so AAU had to go but I still talk to that coach.  Great guy, great coach.  Love him and its the most my son has ever sat.  He doesn't play baseball for his high school but rather plays full time travel.  Not cause he is too good or cause I hate the coach.  I am not overly fond of the coach but even if we loved him it doesn't make sense to pay $300 to high school when we can play the same amount of games for the fee we already paid the travel organization.  Plus he has to lift right after school and HS baseball gets in the way, and football will probably pay the bills for college.  The high school football experience has been the most fun I have ever had as a sports parent.  He is on the best travel team he has ever been on for this summer.  So things are going great.  I don't post this to be bitter or confrontational.  Just to show vividly how there are two sides to the coin.  I have been a coach.  I have coached from 5th graders to Head varsity in basketball and many years of baseball as well from youth to asst. varsity.  And I did much of that before becoming a parent.  After having kids I got a new perspective.  I really admire the parents of the subs who come every game and support the team.  I can't imagine what that feels like.  Maybe in college it will be my turn.  Most coaches tend to have kids who play not sit.  And there is some favoritism in the good ole boy network for other coaches kids lets be honest.  So its sometimes hard for coaches to relate to the less fortunate parents.  So with that in mind and in the spirit of understanding and truly trying to see both sides I paste the following...

It is very easy to sit back and take shots at people. Parents are no different. Do I have to say it again? Ok I will go ahead and say it. There are bad parents. There are average parents. There are good parents. But before coaches simply take shots I wish they could consider some things. How many of those coaches taking shots have ever gone to a game their son was not playing in when maybe he should have been? How invested will they be in this player once he is no longer in their program? When was the last time they missed time seeing their kid play to spend it working to pay the bills? When was the last time they spent 3 hours in a day watching their kid sit both games of a double header? Have they ever had a kid not regularly in a line up? Have they ever had a kid cut? Have they ever been responsible for anything other than just making sure they win? 

I know I spend way more time with work than I do with my own family. I have no idea how it will break down this year but I know we will spend a small fortune on his sports. It's very easy to bash and trash. What have these bashers and trashers done? Graced us with their ego driven coaching greatness? Before our son was a prospect/player we never saw you. After he leaves we will never see you again. But while we are here you're going to make sure we do things the way you think they should be done. Ok.

I think some coaches would benefit from having to invest a little more in the process than just having fun running practice, making lineups and being a mini dictator. Maybe look a little deeper and put yourself in someone else's shoes? I say all of this and have minimal complaints with my kids coaches. They are ok. They do their job and we have a winning tradition. I challenge anyone who has never parented to parent. I challenge coaches who find themselves constantly having issues with parents to parent. Maybe that would help you out. 

I wish everyone of my kids coaches was great. I wish everyone of my kids coaches would have great knowledge. I wish everyone of my kids coaches was happy and right where they wanted to be 100 percent of the time. But guess what life isn't like that. Maybe learning to deal with a bad parent is more of a blessing than having a good parent? Maybe we get exactly what we're supposed to get to make us who we need to be? Maybe if we stop allowing ourselves to be victims we can find a way to be champions? But that dang parent he just screws it all up. It's ok. In a few years it will be the boss. It will be the Cop. It will be the wife. Parents will be replaced by something else. Victims are like that. They have no shortage of excuses to find. Don't get mad at them. That's just what they do.

I think that would fall under the "Some coaches are not good coaches." Some coaches have never been parents. Some have never had kids who played. Some lack perspective. Some are just not good coaches. 

Some coaches have had kids who played. Some have handled it very well. Some are parents and understand exactly what parents are going through. Some are just good coaches.

We find all types of people in every walk of life. Does it work both ways? Yep I think we all know that. 

Speaking about extra curricular axtivities that aren't sports and how they are perceived ...

Our school district has a mandatory two year musical instrument requirement. My kids were in band and/or orchestra in from 4th grade through middle school. My daughter continued into high school when she decided she had to cut back activities. 

Both kids said once past the mandatory stage the competition for first instrument in a section was fierce. They thought it was far more intense than any sports tryout. Parents of top musicians hung out at practice until the conductor kicked them out for speaking out. Parents acted like agents. 

The violin group was all Asian kids. It was the most intense competition in the orchestra. My kids said when first violin was announced every kid who didn't get it burst out crying. 

In 4th grade my son played the tortured moose. He was under the impression it was a trumpet. I made him practice in the basement with the door closed. Fortunately, he discovered in 5th grade he could play the sax and was much better at it.

Not that I had any influence. But I played CD’s and showed him pictures of cool dudes playing the sax. There are some excellent trumpet players. But no one looks cool playing the trumpet.

RJM posted:

Speaking about extra curricular axtivities that aren't sports and how they are perceived ...

Our school district has a mandatory two year musical instrument requirement. My kids were in band and/or orchestra in from 4th grade through middle school. My daughter continued into high school when she decided she had to cut back activities. 

Both kids said once past the mandatory stage the competition for first instrument in a section was fierce. They thought it was far more intense than any sports tryout. Parents of top musicians hung out at practice until the conductor kicked them out for speaking out. Parents acted like agents. 

The violin group was all Asian kids. It was the most intense competition in the orchestra. My kids said when first violin was announced every kid who didn't get it burst out crying. 

In 4th grade my son played the tortured moose. He was under the impression it was a trumpet. I made him practice in the basement with the door closed. Fortunately, he discovered in 5th grade he could play the sax and was much better at it.

Not that I had any influence. But I played CD’s and showed him pictures of cool dudes playing the sax. There are some excellent trumpet players. But no one looks cool playing the trumpet.

Yeah.  Those crazy over the top music parents.  

RJM posted:

But no one looks cool playing the trumpet.

The great Satchmo??

I'll add to the list, last night I saw a freshman pitcher throw 95 pitches.  This is a kid who played Basketball all winter and didn't throw much to prepare for the season until about 4 weeks ago.  Yes, the kid should have done more arm care prior to the season.  He wasn't expecting to pitch this year.  The Coach knows that the kid just began throwing again 4 weeks ago, and still had him throw 95 pitches last night.

Now, if you are the Kid's Dad, do you just repeat the "deal with adversity, kid" mantra?  A lot of these coaches out there are ending kid's careers before they even start.

Saw another kid, a Sophomore, who threw 90 pitches on Tuesday night get put at Shortstop on Wednesday.

Like I said, I could go on & on

3and2Fastball posted:

I'll add to the list, last night I saw a freshman pitcher throw 95 pitches.  This is a kid who played Basketball all winter and didn't throw much to prepare for the season until about 4 weeks ago.  Yes, the kid should have done more arm care prior to the season.  He wasn't expecting to pitch this year.  The Coach knows that the kid just began throwing again 4 weeks ago, and still had him throw 95 pitches last night.

Now, if you are the Kid's Dad, do you just repeat the "deal with adversity, kid" mantra?  A lot of these coaches out there are ending kid's careers before they even start.

Saw another kid, a Sophomore, who threw 90 pitches on Tuesday night get put at Shortstop on Wednesday.

Like I said, I could go on & on

I'll pile on.  I saw a kid play 6 innings at catcher and come in to pitch the 7th in sub 50 deg. weather.  And this was a from a guy I think is a pretty good coach.  

ironhorse posted:

RJM posted:

But no one looks cool playing the trumpet.

The great Satchmo??

Satchmo would look cool playing the kazoo LOL.

He sounded cool. He was cool. Looking cool is another discussion.