ACC vs A10 vs Patriot

Does he want to get drafted his junior year?  What does he want to do when he graduates?

Thanks for the followup, Fenwaysouth.

To be frank, I do not think the "draft" issue has been raised by him/us anytime. College HCs have touted their programs being able to do so, but at this point we are so on the ground floor with this! Eventually, i am sure most competitive players wish to have that opportunity, so I imagine in son's case that should be the case, but not in the discussion/decision process at the present time. 

The strong academic caliber of these schools allows him to I hope tackle the "what does he want to do after he graduates" part. Generally he is still uncommitted as to what majors, etc...leaning on a combo of science/business. 

Thanks again

With three solid offers it comes down to where your son feels the most comfortable. For me it comes down to this plus where he/you think he has the best economic opportunity post baseball. So few make it, even if they are drafted I personally would take this out of the equation. If he is good enough to be drafted he will be drafted regardless where he plays. One question you could ask that you probably are not thinking about is how the schools handle finding jobs at graduation. My son is in graduate school and UT Austin has an amazing program for companies coming in and interviewing recruits so while this is not high on your list it may be a good question to ask. Also ask about job prospect and history at his school for his major. (not a decision point but good to ask)

For planning you should assume that at an ACC school he may lose any academic $ after two years due to the competitive nature of the league. (again for your financial planning) You already mentioned playing time. 

Finally winning is a lot more fun that losing. Not that this is a priority, but my son won their league 3 of 4 years, and were in the regionals every year and went to the CWS one year. There is nothing more fun and exciting than post season or league playoffs IMO. 

Best of luck!

Thanks for a different perspective. I was unaware of the academic $ part, but will keep that in mind if it comes to asking the coaches.

Sorry I meant athletic, but academic $ is based on GPA so ask what GPA is required. I also edited my post while you responded.

Okay..got it. thanks

BOF, isn't it the opposite? Since the ACC is a Power 5 conference, the athletic scholarship is a four-year scholarship (that change was made a year or two ago) while the other two are year-to-year scholarships.

Your son has three offers from Patriot and A10 programs. An ACC program is still deciding. What does this tell you regarding the odds of where he fits in? The reason I ask is I asked a travel player I once coached, "You have one D1 offer and several strong  D2 offers. Where do think it's likely you fit in?" He chose the D1. He never got on the field and transferred after a year.

I don't think that all power 5 schools are guaranteed 4 year scholarships.    Pac 12 and big 10 are, I believe, but unless something has changed in the last few months, I don't think the others are yet?    In any case, you should ask when they give you the offer.    Last year when my son was going through this, we were meeting with an ACC head coach and I asked the question, and he immediately said he would guarantee it "if it makes a difference".  when I asked him about it he said that he was allowed to guarantee it, but was not required to. 

my advice would be to ask that question on any of the offers you receive if the guarantee is important to you.

With my oldest son our priorirty was academic first.. His athletic ability allowed him access to schools that would not have been available to him otherwise. He loved to play but we felt his pro playing odds were longshot odds so we focused on his post college career. If your son has legitimate ability to play professionally then you should explore that and your priorities should adjust accordingly to include playing time, development, and overall baseball program.

Just my opinion  

Thanks for the feedback.

RJM: thanks for the words of caution as well. I think that is so true, finding the right fit. Its also about projections, and some programs do take that into account. Of course there are others who tend to over recruit and that is what one needs to be aware of. The most important thing is to be able to go to a place where you have the academic environment that caters to what you need to do, and where you can get to play at as high a level as you can, and where the program would allow you to develop as needed. 

I am not sure how one can evaluate the abilities for programs to develop players...but we are seeing coaches who say that you have the tools, and we can work you up by fixing some mechanical issues. Then there are others who are in the same conference who appear less interested in telling you areas where they can help you get better. Does that mean they will not, or cannot...not sure. 

As a 17 year old, a player needs to find a place where he is coached up to max the abilities. We are finding and son is seeing that this aspect varies considerably in programs at the D1 level. 

So, I think you've been given some great advice that has more to do with your son's vision of his future than the actual offers he's received or could receive.  As a financially supportive parent, I would spend my time initially focused on what your son really wants and then concern myself with the actual offers.  Until he decides on a path or potential path then it is just guessing on a best fit.   My son was most interested in playing time and winning a conference title.  He felt if he wasn't playing, then it wasn't worth his time investment in a very competitive major. So playing time was huge in his evaluations.  There are others that feel differently.  My point is to figure out what is most important to your son then go with the best choice.  It sounds simple but it doesn't always work out that way.

I 100% agree with BOF's & RJM's points.  If your son has received 3 offers from Patriot & A-10 level schools then that is a strong signal about his place in the talent pool. 

Good luck!

Great points and perspective, Fenwaysouth. Appreciate it. 

When my son was going through the recruiting process,  "go where you are loved" kept coming up.  It is worth repeating.

Have your son go on that overnight visit if it is a school he is interested in.  He will get good insight on what a weekend is like on campus.  My son did before the NLI was signed.  

I cringed after son committed when "where is the school ranked in their conference?" came up.   This comes into play for winning the conference title, then on to Regionals...etc.  This was the furthest thing from our minds during the recruiting process since we wanted son to get a good education/play ball/etc.  But, if the school is a bottom dweller in the conference, can your son make a difference?  Get playing time?  Winning a conference title and going to Regionals is pretty cool....son got his ring last weekend....but it wasn't part of our decision making at all.

If everything is equal.....#1 Go where you are loved   #2 Go where you can play  (these usually fall hand in hand)

Phanatic2008WS, great to hear that your son is fielding offers. Others with younger HA recruits might note that your son is receiving D1 offers in October of his senior year of high school. The trend is clearly toward earlier commitments, but recruiting still continues right up until signing day.

Sounds like your son is considering some great schools. I know a couple of recent grads from Patriot schools, and their alumni networks are extremely valuable with employment after graduation.

Phanatic2008WS posted:

 

...

Son has to decide to weigh in playing time right away versus a waiting period to develop at a top conference team. The issue is - do you get better by playing righaway in college and learn on the mound in real time? Or go to a team that has the luxury to develop you, and not rush you on to the mound the first year so you are ready in Sophomore year.  

Just as a comparison, son made HS varsity his Junior year, so is used to waiting to develop and contribute when ready as the HS team is an area power. He seems to equate that to waiting a year in college to develop and be ready. I am not sure if that is where you get better, or it it better to compete rightaway and learn on the job. In case needed, son is a pitcher.

 

....

 

 

Something to weigh with this part of the equation...

High schools don't have full time recruiting coordinators and head coaches regularly searching all over the country to find an upgrade over you, particularly if you are not a top contributing starter.  At the college level, that is a big part of their job.  At the HS level, they can develop players at different rates of improvement but the players in the program are, for the most part, the pool you are swimming in.  In college, they are throwing in more big fish as often as they can.

Later, you also made this comment...

.."a player needs to find a place where he is coached up to max the abilities. We are finding and son is seeing that this aspect varies considerably in programs at the D1 level. "

This is the case across all levels... varies considerably.

Keewart: Appreciate the priority ranking. Going where you are loved, and get playing time is a good framework to go by. Son is leaning on that too. I do tell him that folks waiting on you and going after other players first is not necessarily bad, that is a part of life too. You just have to go where you have the right fit that works for you so you can enjoy the experience.

Midatlanticdad: Have heard very positive things about Patriot league schools, and network ...both here on this forum and personally during the visits to PL schools.

Cabbagedad: Like that context on HS vs College with respect to pool and available talent. Great point. Also, that programs will vary with coaching and facilities, so do your research prior to committing. 

Thanks all.

phanatic2008ws,

Great to hear for your son. The next comments do not pertain to your sons situation but more of a general caution. Playing time is mentioned, especially as a freshman. I just caution parents and players to listen very carefully. Make sure you are hearing what the coach is saying and not what you want to hear. I have heard the story many times, "the coach told us he would be a starter as a freshman, but he has barely seen the field. The coach lied to us". I heard this over and over every year at my sons school. The coach at his school came at my son very hard, and made it clear he was one of his top recruits in that class. But he never mentioned that he wold start any games. He always stated that he could compete in the fall for a position, and probably get some weekday starts. So either he treated my son different than other recruits or the other recruits id not listen. I can tell you all the other Freshmen starters had the same experience as my son. And their parents heard the same types of things we did. 

And again, Phanatic I am not accusing you of this behavior, this is for others who may read this thread, and think being told you will start before you get to campus is common. It is not. Those cases are very rare. And while your son falls into this category, most of our sons do not.  

Thanks for the post...I think my original post made a reference to relative chances/likelihood to get playing time as a freshman relative to the conferences. But I get your general point.

Further, as alluded to by Cabbagedad - College coaches/recruiters always look to bring in new/better players - so all of the playing time is only as good as you are playing! No guarantees. Thanks!

I really appreciate the point brought out by RJM about the level your son is probably best fit for.  I don't think that we ever really investigated that aspect, but it is a great tip.  Ryan's experience was so different, because he ran the gamut in recruiting from D-1, to D-2, to JC.  He always felt he was a D-1 guy.  He was always told he was a D-1 guy, but in the end, he very well could have become a D-2 guy. 

The point I am getting from RJM is listen to what the process is telling you, not what you want to hear.  I think that is very sound advice.  Trust me, I have seen many a local kid go to the D-1 (I am not sure what there scholly was.), only to end up at a JC after, when they could have probably been a lot more happier going the D-2 or DIII route right off the bat.

I am going to guess that the ACC school might either be Notre Dame or Pittsburgh which would be more realistically on the level of a Patriot or A10 program.  I could be wrong, but if I am not, I would go with the ACC conference, which by the way does not give guaranteed scholarships and does not take away your scholarship after 2 years, 3 probably, but that would be in the more competitive programs.

Whichever program, make sure you ask if they fully fund their 11.7.

Edit:  Good coaches don't tell players they will be starters as freshman. Don't ever take an opportunity on that  premise. Go where you will get your best education and be a part of a team in a good conference.

Seems like the Patriot and A-10 is a win win.  Your son gets to play and more importantly get a great educations.  Look at the graduation rate in 4 years and the employment rate after graduation for each school.  I would be surprised if  Patriot and A-10 do not have have good statistics.

 I say this all the time.....a player may go where he wants but will probably transfer to where he should be to get playing time. 

Here's the post by Rick of Informed Athlete about the Power 5 schools and four-year scholarships: http://informedathlete.com/the...caa-di-scholarships/

www.cbssports.com/college-foot...sal-dont-stop-there/

Net, net, with the rule changes put in place in early 2015, the Power 5 schools (ACC, B1G, PAC-12, SEC, and Big 12) supposedly mandated four-year guaranteed scholarships.

So, I might be wrong, not sure this means full if you only have 11.7 to give out. If so my apologies.

2019Dad posted:

Here's the post by Rick of Informed Athlete about the Power 5 schools and four-year scholarships: http://informedathlete.com/the...caa-di-scholarships/

www.cbssports.com/college-foot...sal-dont-stop-there/

Net, net, with the rule changes put in place in early 2015, the Power 5 schools (ACC, B1G, PAC-12, SEC, and Big 12) supposedly mandated four-year guaranteed scholarships.

I stand corrected.  

In practice I don't believe that all the schools are abiding by This rule.   As Rick states in the article- best to read the fine print !

Great few points about scholarship details. Thanks

S headed off to college (not a power D1) as a pitcher who had been drafted. He knew, just knew mind you, that he would simply dominate at the next level. During recruiting he (and we) understood he was to be a SP as a freshman (multiple schools, multiple coaches, all implied the same). Nothing in fall ball changed those indications.

Then, the season began. And the following season. And the following season. Each a bigger baseball disaster then the previous season.

My simple point: playing time is earned. Dreams, wishes, hopes, and desires are what we have before the college season - then he has what is earned - which can be way different.  Pick a school which gives him the best change to succeed OFF the field - whether that success in found in the classroom, lab, acapella group, internships or ultimate job.  If he finds baseball happiness, he will probably love the school. And, if he finds and develops a non-baseball identity, regardless of baseball success, he will love the school and not transfer due to baseball outcomes.

Hedge the baseball bets; if he's pro material he will be found. IMO, baseball is the tail of the dog, not the dog.

being that your kid is being recruited as a pitcher it probably doesn't matter which league he plays in, it only matter's which coach he plays for.  You are looking for a coach who is interested in seeing your son achieve the next level and won't blow his arm out with overuse.  Whether he throws 95 in the acc or Patriot league makes no difference to the scouts.  

If he were a position player with pro aspirations I would lean towards the ACC where he would face higher level pitching in front of the scouts.   Of course if he's not getting any money from a Patriot League team, that could make a difference 

Its also an added benefit to attend a school with a legit D1 football team because more trainers and better facilities are available to all the athletes.  When my son was in the Big West he went the local emergency room and waited 3 hours to be seen for an injury.  When he was at VT he got an on-campus x-ray and saw a doctor on campus 30 minutes later.

Of course PT might be a little bit harder to get in the ACC, depending upon the school.

Thanks again...all good perspectives, Goosegg and Colleegparentnomore.

Agreed that coaching and environment where a player is allowed to grow and develop should be at the top of the list. College where you get a well rounded academic/baseball experience and one which allows a good post-college opportunity should be of paramount importance. thanks

Happy to report that my son signed the NLI with a Patriot League school. The most important elements going into son's decision were, in order - (1) Head Coach's interaction, initiative and interest, (2) feeling of being wanted by the program, (3) campus and facilities, (4) chances of getting to the playoffs, (5) finacial aid offered.

We were only looking at good academic schools where he would be able to study his preffered majors, so that element was already considered and was pretty much equivalent in all schools with offers.

I wanted to reach back to the HSBaseball community for all their advice and perspective. It was tremendously valuable for me to maintain a sense of sanity! Wish all the best!!

Congrats Phanatic2008WS and family! 

Congrats!  I'm sure you would have said which school if you wanted to, but having visited the campuses of 6 of them at one time or another, I'd know  that I'd be delighted to see my child at any of those schools, and probably the others as well.

Phanatic,

Great stuff!  My guy went through a similar journey.  It'll be a great experience.

Congratulations!!

Congrats to your family and your son!!

Phanatic

Congrats!

Phanatic

Thanks to all for the wishes!! Best to all.

Congrats!!  I think the Patriot League has some really great schools. Good choice!

Congrats!

I played two seasons in the Patriot League.  It was the right athletic/academic balance for me.  Best of luck to your son.

"Net, net, with the rule changes put in place in early 2015, the Power 5 schools (ACC, B1G, PAC-12, SEC, and Big 12) supposedly mandated four-year guaranteed scholarships."

This is correct, and you can delete "supposedly."

BUT, if a guy isn't fitting in or just isn't producing, there can be a lot of pressure to give up money or even to leave the program.  In real life, a player (or even his parents) can come away feeling like they really had no choice in the matter, when in fact they could've said, "Thanks, but I think I'll stick with what I have."  Even with the enforceable rights, there is an intimidation factor, and players are well advised to ask around about a program's coaches' reputations for this so that they go in with their eyes wide open.