Amherst College?

Bobby,

Good for your son and his teammates. And I am glad your son is happy there. One person writing me said that it was tough for the team after they got swept by Wesleyan last weekend, so beating Dartmouth cleanses the bad taste.

Good teammates can always make a difference regardless of the coach, though the coach is always make or break for so many kids and should be the primary factor for any decision making process assuming a kid has choices. I agree with infielddad that coaches need to challenge and push to make kids better individually and as a team. But it doesn't mean that all coaches with winning records are positive influences. Some teams will win in spite of the coach. My research on Amherst and other schools has yielded important and verified information, and I urge others to find out as much as they can because, as I said previously, this is the most important decision of your kid's life. Imagine consigning a kid to four years with a coach who plays head games or doesn't communicate well, regardless of the team's win-loss record. This is his only college experience. He can't repeat it. And to those lurkers who are now a bit worried that they will be criticized on this site after seeking information and sharing it, don't let the angry voices, partisans and coach boosters get to you. It's too important a decision for your family and kid to be intimidated. I always hold out the possibility that the information I get may be biased, just as anyone's comment can be biased one way or another, though in the Amherst case there is enough from different people to confirm what others have said or at least to make me nervous enough to feel confident about the school. So do your research, people, and don't be afraid to share what you found. The more information the better. And I am happy to keep writing with people individually to share what I have learned about Amherst and all the other schools.

baseball IQ,

I have to say, you are very good with the innuendo.  With so much knowledge about college baseball and baseball in New England, I am surprised to find your posting on the HSBBW is so limited, to this one thread.

For me, this crosses the line:

"And to those lurkers who are now a bit worried that they will be criticized on this site after seeking information and sharing it, don't let the angry voices, partisans and coach boosters get to you."

On this site, fenway is viewed as one of the most informed, articulate and helpful posters along with being incredibly unselfish in going out of his way to provide assistance and guidance on college baseball and top academic programs.  To suggest to others not posting that he is an angry voice, partisan and a coach booster as a way of elevating your comments and demeaning his, and others, does not work.

Any lurker can measure whether to accept your "whispers" on the only subject you have posted on the HSBBW or to choose fenway's perspectives based on his years of posting and helping others in ways which are not only incredibly generous, but in ways which are known to be useful, informed and successful. In my view, your last post  and especially the comment I quoted above makes  me question, even more, the motives in your continuing the only thread to which you have contributed on this site.

Personally, I think this thread ought to be closed.

I'm wondering which I am, angry voice, partisan, or coach booster.  Or maybe I'm just a guy who is suspicious of someone who joins the site to whip one topic so hard.  

IQ, how about writing a few thousand words on another program, maybe one you like better?

I don't want to take sides between Baseball IQ and others. I take all concerned to be people of extreme good will.

But I am torn about an issue that deserves some airing on this board, it seems to me.   I have had a number of PM with parents on this board whose son's had quite horrible experiences at some of the schools we were considering.   I have also had PM's with parents whose sons have had quite wonderful experiences,   Detailed discussion of experiences of players -- pro and con -- at a given school seems like a good thing not a bad thing.

On the other hand, I tend myself to prefer not to name particular schools and coaches openly -- out of some combination of caution and perhaps cowardice.   But if schools and coaches are not named publicly (with all sides pro and con weighing in) then this information is less widely shared, less useful.  It's useful to me who has had the PM.  A certain school was actually crossed off our list because of PM's from parent of a recently graduated player and a completely independent PM from a  parent of a current player about the HC both of which said essentially the same negative things. 

But isn't one point of this board to share experiences and observations and wisdom?   I am sure others would benefit from that information. 

I don't know what the general policy should be.  I think on an "Ask About Colleges"  section, open discussion of pro's and cons should somehow be encouraged rather than discouraged.    But I think some discussions are also better held in private, it as it were.

Balancing act required. Reasonable people of good will will differ as to exactly how to strike a balance. 

Slugger,

Good point.  It's a hard balance to strike for sure.  I'm wondering if in the end everything should be out there. All comments in the open.  Even with the flaws in services like Yelp and ratemyprofessor.com the large amount of data tends to outweigh the outliers with agendas. Just looked and there already is a ratemycoach.com site, but its usage doesn't seem to have reached critical mass.

To this post specifically though, IFD is correct: taking a self-righteous tone while impugning the motives and reputation of Fenway is not going to convert many folks to IQ's cause.

Outstanding post Slugger, your thoughts are similar to the ones I have had for some time regarding college searches.  The OP's motives or credibility in this instance are irrelevant to me.  I don't have a dog in the NESCAC fight other than to say I know some players currently in the league.  The Board seems to be united in their (sound) advice that this is a "buyer beware" situation.  My question is, how is the buyer most able to beware??  I would think a resource like this board would be a place where people, even "outsiders" with a new user name could come and express what they have heard in an effort to "beware" as many suggest.  Personally, I went through an extended recruiting cycle with 9, and now 7 is starting his recruiting journey.  Folks - there are "bad" coaches out there who are less than genuine as people and as representatives of their universities.  I've experienced them first hand and utilized the dialog utility to attempt to help the less experienced as they work through the process.  It's really too bad the culture isn't a little more accepting of openly providing help to posters who need help, and frankly sometimes a little protection, when they are on their own recruiting journey.  Just my opinion - flame away. 

One other thing - I 100% agree with anyone posting to defend Fenway and his generosity on the Board.  He has been a great deal of help to me, and I'm sure others on the Board as well.  There are several other members who I could say the same thing about, but Fenway would be at or near the top of that list.

Baseball IQ ... You are wrong the coach is the number one factor in decision making. Coaches come and go. Academics, social and cultural environment are also important. As far as baseball you can't count on the coach always being there. Especially if he's successful and can move up a notch in the baseball world.

The most important thing is the culture and history of the athletic department and baseball program. ADs are usually consistent in he type of coach they will hire. Then the player needs to look at opportunity. Competition is fierce enough without walking into a situation with a lineup already full of quality freshmen and sophomores.

A player also has to understand the coach recruiting him who comes off as a surrogate dad is more likely to come off as a drill sergeant once the player arrives at school? Why? He want the player to succeed.

No one is right all the time. But anyone who ignores Fenway in the high academic Ivy/NESCAC and similar environment is nuts.

Sluggerdad and 9and7dad,

here's the problem from my perspective.  Comments from IQ:

"First, I've heard that..."

"Secondly, scuttlebutt has it..."

"Thirdly, I hear..."

"But I did hear from another NESCAC family..."

"But now I've heard these murmurs from three people who know..."

"People who know the Amherst situation are coming out of the woodwork..."

"From everything I'm hearing now from various credible sources..."

This is a classic smear campaign technique - claims of sources and credibility but no facts whatsoever to back them up.  Would you count on this kind of input in your job?  Would you buy an investment from someone with this pitch?  Would you believe it if it was about a friend or family member?

RJM is right in a way: it's the school, the academics, the program, and the culture that matter the most. But coaches do matter too. For a kid going to college, the coach may have the most influence on his life there.

Smitty28, think what you wish. I think it's best to be as vague as possible when people tell you things so as not to violate the confidentiality of their messages. No reason to go after the messenger. I'm with the others who think it's best to say as much as possible to give people information. They can ignore what I or others say or use this material to do their own research, which I absolutely recommend. We all look at this process differently, so what bothers me might not bother someone else, and vice versa. I'm one of those who believe that we all benefit from more information.

As for Fenway, I've been following his posts for the last year and appreciate them even if I sometimes disagree. Rather, it's the people who question someone else's motives that I find troubling.

Anyway, I will be creating other threads to ask about other schools. And these are schools where the word I get is generally positive. But I want to make sure. Even to those who don't like the fact that I have relayed my findings here, thanks for giving me and others lots to think about.

IQ,

the problem is you are not the messenger, you are the salesman.  You have presented no first hand observations, analysis or data yet you persist in trying sell a smear based on rumors and innuendo.

Smitty - I specifically said that the OP's motives or credibility were not the point of my post.  That said, I don't think they deserve to be summarily dismissed.  In fact, the most credible post in the thread is bobby's, whose kid goes and plays at Amherst.  His experience apparently has been positive.  However, if my kid is considering Amherst (he's not), and I do a search on this forum, wouldn't I want as many opinions as possible, and as much information as possible?  Then it's up to me to assign value to each post and corresponding poster.  However, the common response to virtually all threads like this is twofold: one is to simply dismiss the thread and make the assumption that all coaches are good and that all posters are naive, disgruntled, uniformed parents; and two: buyer beware.  All I'm saying is that my experience dictates that not all coaches are good people who don't misrepresent and mislead recruits, and that collectively we are missing an opportunity to help those that come after us.

It's not rumor or innuendo. It's trying to communicate what others have written to me. If I give specifics, that would potentially harm people who have asked me not to disclose the actual facts of what they say. I'm sorry you think that what I'm doing is somehow bad. I may not be doing it well if it leads you to think the way you do. I have only good hopes for the team there and wish them well. They're kids like yours or mine after all. And if I've been played by people with an axe to grind, shame on me. But I try to evaluate what I hear, and as far as I'm concerned, I have the information I need and hope that others are equally determined to find out as much as they can for their kids. Hopefully what others will take from this thread is the need to find out as much as possible with this momentous decision their kids will be making.

In my view, it is rumor and innuendo since there isn't a post in this thread other than yours which reflects on the coach and everything of yours is not first hand. It is all  attributed to others under the guise they wish to remain silent or be a lurker.

So, apparently some feel it is okay to create this type of comment on a Coach, where a coach cannot respond.

This is a cut and paste from the Amherst site:

"While Hamm’s teams have had great success on the field, they have also distinguished themselves in the classroom and the community. Over the past five seasons, Amherst has placed more players on the NESCAC All-Academic Team than any other NESCAC baseball team. Meanwhile, during the 2010 season, Hamm helped create and maintain a relationship with the W.E.B. Du Bois Academy in nearby Springfield, Mass. The partnership is modeled after Major League Baseball’s Reviving Baseball in Inner-Cities (RBI) program, a concept that Hamm wanted to bring to Western Massachusetts. 

In the summer of 2014, Hamm led a contingent of Amherst faculty, alumni, and baseball players to Japan as part of the Amherst-Doshisha Baseball Cultural Exchange. The two-week exchange visited Kyoto, Sendai, and Tokyo where the team played three games, put on a clinic for students affected by the 2011 tsunami, and were guests at the Japanese Foreign Ministry. 

Prior to becoming head coach, Hamm served as Bill Thurston’s top assistant at Amherst for four years. Before that, he spent three years as an assistant coach at Middlebury College, his alma mater. Hamm also served as an envoy coach for Major League Baseball for three years, working with amateur and professional teams in Europe. In the summer of 2009, he worked as a roaming instructor for the Dutch and Spanish Baseball Federations, coaching with junior national and national teams, and evaluating their development programs. At the 2009 American Baseball Coaches Association (ABCA) Convention, MLB honored Hamm with the Julio Puente Envoy Coach Award, which is awarded to the envoy coach who most epitomizes excellence in coaching and player development in international baseball. He is the youngest coach to have received this award. Hamm has also served as a trainer for the Stanford University-based Positive Coaching Alliance (PCA), as well as an associate director for Be Your Own Coach, an organization that has worked with MLB’s San Francisco Giants and St. Louis Cardinals."

For those who don't know, the Positive Coaching Alliance started in the Bay Area many years ago.  The founder, Mr. Thompson, is avid on the PCA.  It is a real positive and is required by many youth leagues and high schools in the Bay Area.  This coach was a trainer for the PCA. Perhaps he has forgotten everything he learned and then taught to other coaches or perhaps he is a villain in disguise, or perhaps he is truly a reflection of the PCA and all it embodies and is getting a very bad rap by the OP.

Does anyone know the answer? Isn't this thread deserving of some balance to those whose voices and comments are coming from and through one singular source?

Personally, I don't find it attractive when one poster ends up being the voice and reportedly does it because others wish to remain silent or be a lurker.

What baseball IQ is suggesting reflects on the AD and the entire administration of Amherst.  We have seen situations in some universities where this shoe might fit, such as the basketball and AD at Rutgers. That does not mean this coach and the AD at Amherst belong in such a class.  What is being posted by baseball IQ would be the absolute antithesis of the PCA.

For those with an interest, here is a link to the PCA where this coached trained other coaches in PCA techniques and approaches:

http://www.positivecoach.org/our-story/the-pca-way/

Much agreement from me who learned a great deal from Fenway and will rounding applaud his insights about the Ivy/NESCAC recruiting path (just went through it with my 2015). I was a reader on HSBBWEB long before I posted. Son already committed to a school just a few months after we first looked at Amherst.

The most valuable post I got here is from Bobby, which is current and whose son is there. If you read through it his son is not necessarily of the #s 1-6 players, but continues to work hard so that he may eventually could be-- a true "team player." Keeping book shows he is in the game! If we were still looking at school's we would probably PM Bobby in a heartbeat.

Great win for the program, Bobby. I am hoping my son will see similar results against Dartmouth!  One poster indicated is it time to cut the thread.. OK by me. Next school....

In complete fairness, there is a post in this thread other than baseballIQ's  that touches on the sort of things that IQ reports he hears from others.  bobbyaghuo, whose son is currently there and apparently happy (apparently despite not playing all that much, but traveling?)  there says:

1) According to some parents I spoke with, there were issues with some of the senior players last season which reached a boiling point after being eliminated from the regionals. There has been nothing like that this season.

Perhaps BaseballIQ has heard chapter and verse from some of these disaffected voices. I am in no position to judge.

My only point is that I find it hard to see what norm he is supposed to be  violating.

Evidently, he came here seeking to find guidance on making a hard and consequential decision.  He seems to be in good faith, as far as I am in a position to judge,  sharing some things that he has learned or at least has heard.

Others, like bobbyaguho,  bettered placed to know the facts, are open to dispute or confirm what he says he has been told (though if I were the parent of current student there, I'd probably want to stay out of public discussions of this sort, no matter on which side I came down)

SluggerDad,

What I read the OP posting involved a "rebellion against the coach" following the teams elimination from the Regionals.  I do not read issues with some seniors reaching the boiling point to equate with a "rebellion against the coach."

As I posted earlier, one great D3 coach indicates that nearly every year one group pulls the team one direction and another tries to pull it a different direction. How do we know those were  not part of that friction and boiling point.

Having been to 2 regionals, the emotions and intensity are extremely high. The ending is sudden. For seniors, it can be hugely emotional knowing they have played their last game. At the end of our son's freshman year, a senior laden team which probably underperformed had some obvious  friction but these were really great kids. Some of that friction was regret, some related to a perception of playing for individual stats and some probably because not everyone on a baseball team likes each other.  End of seasons can be  emotional. I did not read anything to equate anything to a "rebellion."

Lastly, to be perfectly honest, I am not clear what "hard and consequential decision" is involved for the OP.  It sounds to me like he is trying to decide, for his son, what schools to include in a list of possible schools of interest...sometime in the future. Maybe because I have been through this and don't have a son on the way up(just a grandson ) I see this from  a different perspective.  I did not read anything to suggest his son is being recruited by Amherst, or any other program for that matter. Having schools on a list is very different than the school recruiting the player in a way which could create a hard and consequential decision.

How do we know this entire thread relates to a student athlete with the skills and talents in the classroom and on the baseball field to be recruited, especially with that school's selectivity? Maybe the OP can help us understand if Amherst is actually recruiting his son, what year in school his son would be, etc and the level of being recruited. 

Finally, our experience was to not write off any school without a visit and watching games, practices and getting some feel for the program from first hand observation and contact. Having been on the HSBBW for many years, I am more convinced than ever that as good as the information on this site can be, I would never suggest our son or anyone's son make any decisions on colleges from this site and message boards.