Anyone hear a rumor D-1 Colleges can not?

Don't know anything about this other than to say my 2017 was at a D1 camp this past weekend and he was timed in the 60 and had his exit velocity measured.  So if it is a new rule, it has not taken effect yet (or this school had no clue about it).

Went to a college prospect camp in August and they had the radar gun on every throw in the infield outfield and on the mound.  Exit velocity was recorded but they did not run 60's. They said that was due to time constraints but they were timing kids running to 1st in the game portion. 

The inquiry doesn't mention whether or not there are talking about a camp setting. You can't just stop by a D1 and run a 60 for the coach... that would fall under the Tryout rules (not new).

MidAtlanticDad posted:

The inquiry doesn't mention whether or not there are talking about a camp setting. You can't just stop by a D1 and run a 60 for the coach... that would fall under the Tryout rules (not new).

It's in the OP "he also later clarified that this was camp/showcase at the college,"

My hunch (and it's only a hunch) is that perhaps the compliance director of a Division I university or conference office issued a reminder to coaches to put down the stop watches and the radar guns to focus on the "instructional" aspects of a camp.  I'll copy the Division I rule that has been in place since 2007.  

For the record, we or any other organization that uses a DI college facility, cannot run/time the 60.  It has been that way for several years now.  We still use radar guns and stopwatches, just can't run the 60.  Not sure what the rules are for an event actually run by the college.

It is just another rule that makes no sense.

Son recently went to a d3 prospect camp and they ran/timed the 60. 

Looking for opinions. Can a kid not known for speed play a great shortstop/2nd base position?

Never understood why the time the 60 anyway.  How often does a baseball player do that in a game?  Wide receivers in FB, yes.  Baseball players???

Marine, can your son read the bat?

Bob

CaCO3Girl posted:

*This is from the youth board, I tried to send him here but he can't access HSBBW from work, so I'm posting for him*

I heard D-1 Colleges can not time you in the 60 now or Velo Radar from positions or radar ball exit speed at their campus. What would be the reason for this? Anyone have any ideas?

*Someone already asked if it was a dead week, he said no*

*he also later clarified that this was camp/showcase at the college, and said "I believe this is something that was implemented this past weekend. If anyone went a D-1 camp the weekend before last it or earlier it would not have been in effect."

Thoughts?

Not all camps are skills camps, they may be more about being a showcase. Take note of how it's advertised.

IMO instructional camps are worth the money.  

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/0...waggles-what-huh-mlb

please read and then ask your questions.

Bob

2ndMarDiv posted:

Looking for opinions. Can a kid not known for speed play a great shortstop/2nd base position?

Luke Appling waves hello

I know one kid who won't be making the trip to Australia with Bob's group.

That said, I've seen some kids with good arms, good hands, good quickness,  but average speed -- not slow, but average -- play MIF positions on HS teams and play them well.  But every step up the ladder they're more likely to be put on a corner or behind the plate.

I've passed on all *cough* relevant responses, thank you!

CaCO, I think you live in Georgia. UGA seems pretty clear with their interpretation of 13.11.1.14 under "Impermissible Camp Activities". This rule was probably added for football and basketball, and I'm guessing that the other sports aren't as tuned in at most schools. Seems pretty clear that the coach is not supposed to record your measured times, then refer back to them later for recruiting. Which seems ridiculous to me, since they can recruit you out of a camp based on non-measurable activity.

https://compliance.sports.uga....ws-concerning-camps/

Moderator's Note: I just cleaned up this thread a bit. Several people responded to one inappropriate comment. Your posts were deleted as well as the offensive post--not because you did anything wrong, but because the context for your posts was removed.

Speed is great. And sometimes makes watching the game fun.

But I'll take bat and glove over speed anytime.

Remember this kid? https://vine.co/v/5O3313a2TmT

Actually Dansby Swanson is very fast, a plus runner.  6.6 in the 60 back when he was in high school.

I did not imply Swanson is slow not at all and actually I don't know anything about his speed so I wouldn't comment on that aspect of his game. What I do know is what I saw in that video and it's the reason for my love of the game.  That's exciting and worth paying to go watch a kid do.         

I agree.

Very fast.

I just got an email from someone pushing a particular camp saying that "the NCAA has passed a new law restricting D1 coaches from camps beginning in November and running through to next summer."

Is that true, so no winter camps, or is it the difference between a camp and a showcase or what's the deal? Just when I think I understand the rules, they change. Or so it seems.

JCG posted:

Very fast.

Looks like he is about 5 times as fast as the outfielders who jogged for the ball.  

Iowamom23 posted:

I just got an email from someone pushing a particular camp saying that "the NCAA has passed a new law restricting D1 coaches from camps beginning in November and running through to next summer."

Is that true, so no winter camps, or is it the difference between a camp and a showcase or what's the deal? Just when I think I understand the rules, they change. Or so it seems.

I'm skeptical right off the bat, because the NCAA doesn't pass "laws". I don't know of any significant changes recently that would support that statement. The same old winter quiet+dead periods have been around for years, and those run from early November to the end of February. But quiet period doesn't restrict schools from hosting camps, and doesn't restrict coaches from holding paid positions at camps.

Actually, college coaches are not allowed to work off campus camps from Nov 7 until they start their season in February. 

MidAtlanticDad posted:

Iowamom23 posted:

I just got an email from someone pushing a particular camp saying that "the NCAA has passed a new law restricting D1 coaches from camps beginning in November and running through to next summer."

Is that true, so no winter camps, or is it the difference between a camp and a showcase or what's the deal? Just when I think I understand the rules, they change. Or so it seems.

I'm skeptical right off the bat, because the NCAA doesn't pass "laws". I don't know of any significant changes recently that would support that statement. The same old winter quiet+dead periods have been around for years, and those run from early November to the end of February. But quiet period doesn't restrict schools from hosting camps, and doesn't restrict coaches from holding paid positions at camps.

NCAA passed new rules for dead period starting inNovember until February 

redbird5 posted:

Actually, college coaches are not allowed to work off campus camps from Nov 7 until they start their season in February. 

Thanks, I am no longer skeptical. I only see this in the D1 manual. No change for D2 and D3, so those coaches can still make a living.

New section this year specifically for baseball:

13.12.2.3.2 Institutional or Noninstitutional, Privately Owned Camps/Clinics—Baseball. In
baseball, an institution’s coach or noncoaching staff member with responsibilities specific to baseball may
serve in any capacity (e.g., counselor, guest lecturer, consultant) in a noninstitutional, privately owned camp
or clinic, provided the camp or clinic is operated in accordance with restrictions applicable to an institutional
camp or clinic (e.g., open to any and all entrants, no free or reduced admission to or employment
of athletics award winners). However, during a quiet period, an institution’s coach or noncoaching staff
member with responsibilities specific to baseball may be employed (either on salaried or a volunteer basis)
only at his or her institution’s camps or clinics. [D] (Adopted: 4/28/16 effective 8/1/16)

Go44dad posted:

JCG posted:

Very fast.

Looks like he is about 5 times as fast as the outfielders who jogged for the ball.  

Wasn't going to say anything the OF played the ball miserably.   

MidAtlanticDad posted:

redbird5 posted:

Actually, college coaches are not allowed to work off campus camps from Nov 7 until they start their season in February. 

Thanks, I am no longer skeptical. I only see this in the D1 manual. No change for D2 and D3, so those coaches can still make a living.

New section this year specifically for baseball:

13.12.2.3.2 Institutional or Noninstitutional, Privately Owned Camps/Clinics—Baseball. In
baseball, an institution’s coach or noncoaching staff member with responsibilities specific to baseball may
serve in any capacity (e.g., counselor, guest lecturer, consultant) in a noninstitutional, privately owned camp
or clinic, provided the camp or clinic is operated in accordance with restrictions applicable to an institutional
camp or clinic (e.g., open to any and all entrants, no free or reduced admission to or employment
of athletics award winners). However, during a quiet period, an institution’s coach or noncoaching staff
member with responsibilities specific to baseball may be employed (either on salaried or a volunteer basis)
only at his or her institution’s camps or clinics. [D] (Adopted: 4/28/16 effective 8/1/16)

As IowaMom noted, some baseball camp businesses are really highlighting this change. Over the weekend my son received a mailing for a camp Nov. 5th & 6th -- one day before the drop dead date of the quiet period -- and it specifically called out the rule change (and it specifically noted it applied to D1 -- as MidAtlanticDad noted, it apparently does not apply to D2 or D3).

Some Division I baseball coaches had been "working around" the restriction on off-campus recruiting during a quiet period by working "instructional camps" put on by private companies.  While I know there are others and I have nothing against them personally, Top 96 is one that I'm aware of.

This was not considered "recruiting" because the coaches were actually on the field providing instruction to the athletes, rather than sitting in the stands observing a showcase event.  Or, at least, that's the rationale that was being used so the coaches could get off-campus and continue to interact with prospects, and it was a great selling point for these instructional camps.

The Division I rule change was put in place this year to make it very clear that the coaches can no longer take advantage of this loophole to continue getting off-campus to interact with prospects during a quiet period.  Division II and III coaches don't have these quiet periods to be concerned about so they can attend showcases or camps during the November to February period as they choose.

Does this refer to paid coaches only? I thought tha D1 volunteers could still go?

This is for ALL D-1 coaches. (yes, 8it impacts the smaller volunteers more)

I believe that the wording of the rule change also prohibits Division I volunteer coaches from working those instructional camps, as it refers to individuals with "responsibilities specific to baseball."

Rick at Informed Athlete posted:

My hunch (and it's only a hunch) is that perhaps the compliance director of a Division I university or conference office issued a reminder to coaches to put down the stop watches and the radar guns to focus on the "instructional" aspects of a camp.  I'll copy the Division I rule that has been in place since 2007.  

Division I Bylaw 13.11.1.14 Tryout Events. A member institution or conference may not host, sponsor or conduct a tryout camp, clinic, group workout or combine (e.g., combination of athletics skill tests or activities) devoted to agility, flexibility, speed or strength tests for prospective student-athletes at any location. An institution or conference shall not host, sponsor or conduct any portion (e.g., instructional clinic) of an event that also includes agility, flexibility, speed or strength tests for prospective student-athletes that are conducted at a separate location. In sports other than bowl subdivision football, a member institution’s staff members may only attend (subject to sport-specific restrictions) such an event sponsored by an outside organization if the event occurs on the institution’s campus and is open to all institutions. (Adopted: 1/10/92, Revised: 8/5/04, 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06, 9/18/07)

And Rick wins!  I sent over what everyone had to say and the parent was still confused so he emailed the D1 coach.  Coach came back and cited Division I Bylaw 13.11.1.14

I'm guessing the non-D1 programs are thrilled with this restriction at least as it pertains to Seniors.  They get an exclusive window of time from early Nov to Feb where only they can work any of the showcases and recruit the uncommitted kids.  And they will know with certainty which Seniors they have been recruiting either did or did not sign a NLI of intent and can determine where they still have needs.