Becoming a PO

 

This site does help people understand the process but at the end of the day if you are after scholarship money baseball is a poor choice, that isn't my opinion that is a fact. I don't make the rules or set the budgets.

Son's scholarship in baseball is paying for his college with little to no OOP and the school is out of state. I think the money is just fine. Being a PO when younger is more of sacrifice, you miss time on the field, don't hit and are less active overall on the field. It contradicts most kid's experiences up to that point in baseball when most studs do all of it, pitch, field and hit. It becomes a mindset and you have to be goal driven later on as it doesn't get any easier in college, there is more competition and you are a commodity. I guess its all about perspective. 

PO could be about needs at the next level.  Two teammates of my son:  MIF, who could also pitch, is freshman in ACC top program.  Coach sees more value in him as a Pitcher than as a MIF.  Not exactly what he was hoping for.  Another teammate, PO at a mid-D1 program.  Shows up with a good bat as a freshman and Coach has him positioned primarily as a specialty left-handed pinch hitter and maybe some work out of the pen.  I think Coaches look at your strengths and how best you can provide value to a winning effort.

Like the OP's son, mine was a tall projectable LHP who was presented with high level PO opportunities early.  Eventually, after pitching with very talented, older teammates, he realized the tremendous amount of work required to become a top level pitcher and began to look at the time spent in the cage and shagging flies as actually taking away from his improvement as a pitcher, and he embraced the PO label.  I think the decision becomes clearer as players honestly evaluate their potential role at the next level.  These elite teams typically have kids who can mash, particularity at the positions he also played (1B and OF).   He realized his opportunity to play in college was on the mound, and he put all of his energy into becoming a better pitcher.    Again, strictly one kid's story, but he would tell you that becoming a PO at around 16, allowed him to reach his goal of playing D1 college baseball.

Thanks for the comment! Would love to hear more about his high school days perhaps in a PM? Seems like our situations are very much the same!

I've tried to stay out of this and let it play out but the thread seems to be winding down, I have to say I don't get.

A 2019, a 9th grader, is a PO on a 2017 team and this is okay?  I thought for sure TMP would pop in and say something like "You can't restrict yourself to one position before you have even played varsity" or "Playing with kids 2 years older is not the way to get noticed", but no, she popped in and said her kid went PO after 9th grade.

I would be very against my 2020 going to a PO role, it's so narrow, we don't even know what he can really do yet.  Yes, he pitches well, but his hitting and fielding aren't shabby either, why restrict a 2019 with a PO role?  I don't get it.

Thank you!! It seemed crazy to me as well. My son will be a sophomore in high school. We have a senior who has gradually become a PO because over four years of high school baseball, he realized that other kids on our not very good high school team were better than he was at every position, so he figured out what he could do and he does it.

But I would fight having my son in that position as a sophomore.

Now, the only thing I will say it sounds like this kid is a PO only on this particular team, and plays other positions on other teams, which gives him some of that experience. I can understand that--it's like the youth team that invited my son to come along to a weekend tournament in a vacation spot, swim, mess around with the guys, and pitch a couple of games for them. It's fine for the weekend, but not for his life.

Narrowing to PO only for all of a kids' high school baseball career while you're just a freshman or younger just seems like a bad idea.

Iowamom23 posted:

Thank you!! It seemed crazy to me as well. My son will be a sophomore in high school. We have a senior who has gradually become a PO because over four years of high school baseball, he realized that other kids on our not very good high school team were better than he was at every position, so he figured out what he could do and he does it.

But I would fight having my son in that position as a sophomore.

Now, the only thing I will say it sounds like this kid is a PO only on this particular team, and plays other positions on other teams, which gives him some of that experience. I can understand that--it's like the youth team that invited my son to come along to a weekend tournament in a vacation spot, swim, mess around with the guys, and pitch a couple of games for them. It's fine for the weekend, but not for his life.

Narrowing to PO only for all of a kids' high school baseball career while you're just a freshman or younger just seems like a bad idea.

Iowamom, I respect your opinion, but if this is high school, I don't think PO or not is a choice, or something you can fight.

If it's travel, you have the choice of teams and is a different story.

Go44dad posted:

Iowamom, I respect your opinion, but if this is high school, I don't think PO or not is a choice, or something you can fight.

If it's travel, you have the choice of teams and is a different story.

Go44dad, that is what confuses me.  The OP says the player will play various positions on the HS team but for summer he has chosen to play up (from 15u/9th grader) onto a 17u team as a PO....I repeat, I don't get it.  There is no mention of the kid throwing 90+, or having a weak bat....so okay, I know I am totally new at this so if someone, maybe even the OP, could explain why this is a good thing I would really like to know. The logic here just is not computing.

There comes a point where your summer choices are based on your goals. If the goal is to move on to the next level, you choose the team best positioned to make that happen. If you are a very strong pitcher, you want the exposure that a team like the Evoshield Canes or Orlando Scorpions might provide. Now, you may have a very good bat, but not good enough to crack the lineup for one of those teams. So, you have a choice. Take your arm to a team where your bat is also good enough to play both ways or play for one of those teams as a PO. Obviously, these are organizations that practically guarantee that your talent will get noticed. So, by going to another team, you may be lessening your exposure for the chance to play both ways.

It becomes a matter of how you are selling yourself. My son, for example has a D1 arm, maybe even a D1 bat, but definitely not D1 speed or a D1 glove. Even as a freshmen, it was obvious that his chances at the next level were tethered strictly to pitching. So, for him, PO makes sense. If we were not yet sure whether his best bet was as a pitcher or position player, it might be worth the decreased exposure to have a chance to further develop his position and batting skills. It's an individual decision that has to be made subjectively.

High school is different, but not entirely different. My son plays at a smaller-enrollment school (just above 400), so his bat will be valued. If he were playing at a 5A powerhouse, it is likely that his bat wouldn't break him into the lineup and he'd be a PO. In that case, there is no decision to be made - it's made for him by the coaching staff. I can see having a 2019 with a quality arm that I can look at and know he's never going to have, for example, enough foot speed or raw power to make him  serious candidate for the next level and deciding to sacrifice that development for better early exposure.

First the entire reason for the thread was to see what others experience on this was and how others sons did with it. We live in WV and we are on our 3rd year with this travel team. My son is 6'2" and left handed and is a very good pitcher. He hits well and is a good outfielder but his place in college at a high level will probably be as a pitcher. Left handed kids his size are a little different than RHP. He is in high school. If the summer travel as a PO is distasteful we will take him to another program. The way it's been explained to me, he will be in greater demand as an LHP than as a outfielder because of his physical tools. We played last season on a team where he was a two way, but as such because he was a Sunday pitcher, other kids with lesser talents usually got field time ahead of him, which in my mind is more distasteful but until kids are in high school that is still little league mentality stuff where dads are doing the coaching. That will not be the case this year. We are going to several high profile 17u tournaments where he will be challenged and there's always the possibility he may be over his head. If so we backup and reevaluate. After the way things went as a 14u last year, we are just happy he has a defined role. Things may be a little different here where there isn't a lot of high quality high exposure travel teams. Didn't mean to create a controversy...sorry folks!

Roothog, that explains it some, if you recognize a real weakness then why fight it, but the OP didn't mention a weakness....and sorry to beat a dead horse here, BUT, how can the majority on here advocate for not worrying about the exposure 8th and 9th graders are getting but not object to a player committing to be a PO before they play a varsity game?

The other thing that confuses me is the phrase "play with your graduating class" is used a lot.  So what's with the playing up?  Be a stud at 15u, be one of the cattle at 17u...why?

"The other thing that confuses me is the phrase "play with your graduating class" is used a lot.  So what's with the playing up?  Be a stud at 15u, be one of the cattle at 17u...why?"

Not sure exactly what side of this you are on is, but in general once you hit HS you should be playing with your graduating class.  If your young for your class that may mean playing up.  In general at the HS level playing at a different grade level will work to your disadvantage when it comes to recruiting.  I can buy the argument, up until you hit HS,  that you need to play with the best talent possible and if that means playing up then do it.  But once you hit HS you are going to hamper your recruiting chances by playing with a different grade.  Again, there are occasional exceptions to this but in general, stick with your graduating class.

2019Lefty21 posted:

First the entire reason for the thread was to see what others experience on this was and how others sons did with it. We live in WV and we are on our 3rd year with this travel team. My son is 6'2" and left handed and is a very good pitcher. He hits well and is a good outfielder but his place in college at a high level will probably be as a pitcher. Left handed kids his size are a little different than RHP. He is in high school. If the summer travel as a PO is distasteful we will take him to another program. The way it's been explained to me, he will be in greater demand as an LHP than as a outfielder because of his physical tools. We played last season on a team where he was a two way, but as such because he was a Sunday pitcher, other kids with lesser talents usually got field time ahead of him, which in my mind is more distasteful but until kids are in high school that is still little league mentality stuff where dads are doing the coaching. That will not be the case this year. We are going to several high profile 17u tournaments where he will be challenged and there's always the possibility he may be over his head. If so we backup and reevaluate. After the way things went as a 14u last year, we are just happy he has a defined role. Things may be a little different here where there isn't a lot of high quality high exposure travel teams. Didn't mean to create a controversy...sorry folks!

I get that LHP are a sought after commodity, and I am not trying to diminish your son's pitching skill, BUT, if he hits well and is good in the OF why send him up two years and pigeon hole him into the PO position?  Why not see what he can do at 15u being a two way?

Last year he was on a team with 8th and 9th graders, this year he will be with 11th/12th graders?  If he was really good at 14u why not build the buzz and make him a sought after 15u kids...maybe Evo or ECB will come knocking, why take him out of his pool/grade if he could go as a two-way? What's the allure?

roothog66 posted:

There comes a point where your summer choices are based on your goals. If the goal is to move on to the next level, you choose the team best positioned to make that happen. If you are a very strong pitcher, you want the exposure that a team like the Evoshield Canes or Orlando Scorpions might provide. Now, you may have a very good bat, but not good enough to crack the lineup for one of those teams. So, you have a choice. Take your arm to a team where your bat is also good enough to play both ways or play for one of those teams as a PO. Obviously, these are organizations that practically guarantee that your talent will get noticed. So, by going to another team, you may be lessening your exposure for the chance to play both ways.

It becomes a matter of how you are selling yourself. My son, for example has a D1 arm, maybe even a D1 bat, but definitely not D1 speed or a D1 glove. Even as a freshmen, it was obvious that his chances at the next level were tethered strictly to pitching. So, for him, PO makes sense. If we were not yet sure whether his best bet was as a pitcher or position player, it might be worth the decreased exposure to have a chance to further develop his position and batting skills. It's an individual decision that has to be made subjectively.

High school is different, but not entirely different. My son plays at a smaller-enrollment school (just above 400), so his bat will be valued. If he were playing at a 5A powerhouse, it is likely that his bat wouldn't break him into the lineup and he'd be a PO. In that case, there is no decision to be made - it's made for him by the coaching staff. I can see having a 2019 with a quality arm that I can look at and know he's never going to have, for example, enough foot speed or raw power to make him  serious candidate for the next level and deciding to sacrifice that development for better early exposure.

This ^^.

It usually becomes pretty clear where your son fits fairly early on in the process, especially if you are talking goals of D1. My 2018 will be valued on his HS varsity team for his bat, pitching, and outfield play. For his summer team (16U and possibly 18U with the same club if schedules work out) he will be primarily a PO because as a LHP that is his best shot in college. He doesn't have really great foot speed (although he is still working on it) and he is not a huge power hitter (although, again, he is still working on it), but he can throw.

The timeline and possibilities seem to be a little different for lefties than righties. By genetics, they are pretty limited on where they can play in the field. If you don't have really good foot speed, you aren't going to get D1 attention for outfield. If you don't have a huge bat, you aren't going to get D1 attention for 1B. That leaves pitching.  By focusing on pitching, they open as many doors as possible and they have a little more time to find the right school since it seems that schools are always looking for a good LHP.

Just my two cents based on our current experiences.

Echoing what RootHog says.  In HS, son considered himself a PO because that's the role he played on his elite level summer team and that's what he knows he was being recruited for at the next level.  But on his HS team, if he wasn't pitching, he was playing 1B or DH.  Played every inning of every game.  At his HS team level, a "PO" at the next level can probably make an impact in a lot of ways.

What kandkfunk said 100%. My kid will be playing on a 17u summer team with mostly 2017 and 2018 kids...he just happens to be a young 2019.  He will be facing 2016-2017-2018-2019 kids if he pitches high school varsity this season so why does being a PO on a 17u summer team sound so distasteful? I don't understand why this is so maddening

2019Lefty21 posted:

What kandkfunk said 100%. My kid will be playing on a 17u summer team with mostly 2017 and 2018 kids...he just happens to be a young 2019.  He will be facing 2016-2017-2018-2019 kids if he pitches high school varsity this season so why does being a PO on a 17u summer team sound so distasteful? I don't understand why this is so maddening

I'm with 2019, the competition makes them stronger.  Competition makes them work harder.  It's ok to get beat sometimes,  the player can learn a lot.

2020 pitched up with 2018's/2019's in fall.  He gained a lot of confidence.  He couldn't just beat them by throwing it by them every pitch.

Maybe I'm reading too much into this, BUT, follow along. 

The rising 10th grader is going to be on a summer team in a PO position with rising 11th/12th graders....so either he gets slim to none playing time because the 11th/12th graders are trying desperately to show their stuff at the important events because they are in hard core recruiting time....OR....he is only allowed to pitch against the weak teams because the coach doesn't want to waste his D1 prospects arms on a no-name team with no one important watching....OR.....maybe the 2019 is an absolute stud 90mph LHP in which case he takes up the mound time in front of the important people and kids who are actively trying to get recruited are ticked because why does a kid who was in 9th grade last month need Head Coaches at colleges to see him?

I guess I don't see this working out for the kid any way you slice it. 

Lets just say he's not throwing 90 because he isn't. He had 17innings in the fall at high school and was very successful. Why should he not play with kids a year or two older and not be seen by recruiters? He pitched up 15u 2 games last year and went 2-0 with a sub 1 era and gave up 6 hits in 2 complete games against good national competition. As I explained earlier the coach will use all his kids to get them maximum exposure....if coach wants him should he play with 15u by default? I don't get it? He's 6,2" 160 lbs and by end of summer should be more developed....I just don't understand why that is so bad? Search PG and tell me how many 2019s have made verbal commitments....not saying mine should but you have to compete against the best to get seen and have anyone actually care

Just as Roothog I think it becomes clearer sooner for others than most. My son wanted to play for Power 5 school or equivalent.  If like in his case you run or project to run 7.5 plus that is a deal breaker. Pretty easy to see where you best shot is there.

In addition if you are a PO on a solid travel team and have D1 talent I would bet that most of those kids are talented enough to hit for their HS teams. At least that is what my experience has been, so it's not as if they PO all year round.  

2019Lefty21 posted:

Lets just say he's not throwing 90 because he isn't. He had 17innings in the fall at high school and was very successful. Why should he not play with kids a year or two older and not be seen by recruiters? He pitched up 15u 2 games last year and went 2-0 with a sub 1 era and gave up 6 hits in 2 complete games against good national competition. As I explained earlier the coach will use all his kids to get them maximum exposure....if coach wants him should he play with 15u by default? I don't get it? He's 6,2" 160 lbs and by end of summer should be more developed....I just don't understand why that is so bad? Search PG and tell me how many 2019s have made verbal commitments....not saying mine should but you have to compete against the best to get seen and have anyone actually care

There's absolutely nothing wrong with your approach and reasons for it.  

Good luck and wishing your boy success.

I have been following this morning's comments, and I think Roothog nailed it. It depends on the kid and the situation. For my kid, I can see the PO thing potentially coming on his high school team . . . to be clear, it looks like he'll be the starting 3B on JV when he's not pitching, but the pitchers get fewer reps on infield and batting than the position-player-only kids, and the way it ends up on varsity is most pitchers (like, 80%) do not contribute meaningfully in the field, even if they are not officially designated as a PO (e.g., a kid might be the 5th or 6th outfielder). For this and for a few other reasons, I could see it developing where he contributes significantly as a pitcher and not much as a position player.

Now, to give CACO3GIRL and IOWAMOM23 their due, I want him to keep his options open. It is not clear to me where he projects better. He's only in 9th grade. On his travel team, which is fairly well known nationally (not to the level of an org like the Canes, but known, with dozens and dozens of graduates playing professionally right now), the situation is flipped -- he plays MIF and some 3B and has pitched only once (because he is not available, as he is pitching for his high school, and we won't let him pitch for two teams the same weekend), and he gets plenty of opportunities as a position player. It will be an unusual situation if he ends up pitching for his HS team and a position player, or during the summer playing both ways, for his travel team. In every instance I have seen with this travel team and comparable teams, it is the opposite -- two-way for the high school, PO for the travel team.  

Anyway, as Roothog said, "If we were not yet sure whether his best bet was as a pitcher or position player, it might be worth the decreased exposure to have a chance to further develop his position and batting skills. It's an individual decision that has to be made subjectively."

We had the advantage of living in Northern Atlanta.  When my son was a freshman in HS, he played for a 15u team.  But we played in the 15, 16, 17 and 18 WWBA tournaments in Marietta.  His team also played at some college showcases playing against HS summer teams and older teams looking to showcase.  I think this is the better way to go because you are playing on a team that is your graduating class AND playing against some of the best competition around.  He played both ways on the team as a 15 year old.  As a 16 year old, he started getting phased out of playing position.  Still did some, but his bat wasn't all that consistent and there were other kids on the team that wanted to move on to the next level and were not going to do it as pitchers and he obviously was.  He always played both ways in HS.  As a freshman, he pitched varsity and played position on JV.  Sophomore, Junior and Senior, he played both ways on varsity.  

Maybe not everyone can do that, but I think ultimately, it is best to play with your graduating class.  That team can always play up against older teams in order to get the best competition.  Maybe not all areas of the country have the availability of baseball to be able to do that though.  I definitely don't think playing down is a good option.  You have to do what you think is best for your child.  And that is different for everyone depending on their child and the situation around them...

"Maybe not all areas of the country have the availability of baseball to be able to do that though. I definitely don't think playing down is a good option. You have to do what you think is best for your child"

that is the case with us. We are a pretty limited baseball state ....our high school team will play in myrtle beach at spring break and will more than likely be the first week of our season at the end of March. The South Carolina teams there will be working on game 15.....my son in my opinion plays for the best travel team here. We have kids drafted most years as high as 2nd round and have kids on top d1 rosters all over. Travel ball for us consists of June and July. ....6 tournaments. as I said before, I view this as a fantastic opportunity to see where he stands against good national competition and nothing more. If it is not good for him we will know rather quickly as we play in Nashville and Cartersville GA tournaments 2 and 3. We will regroup and move on after that. while I appreciate all of the opinions and concerns for my son, I still don't understand how this is so terrible for some of you. I truly have my child's best interest at heart, and all I wanted in starting the thread was to see how others that had been through this saw things

2019lefty21, assuming your experience is good, do you anticipate your son playing on this 17u team for the next 3 years?  If not, since there is not much good baseball around you, do you know what you would do next?  And how willing do you think this team would be to let him play somewhere else as a 16 year old and come back as a 17 year old, assuming your son would want to do that since this is the best team around?

I'm really not questioning your decision at all, just curious.

First off, our organization also has a second "more advanced" 17u team.  We have reorganized a little this year so that is an option for him.  If he leaves the organization, I doubt he would be able to come back.  We know there are other organizations he could try out for but haven't wanted to go that route.  Our organization is strong...just shuffling some things around this year.  We actually don't have a 15U this season but a 15/16 (16u).   Like I've said in my post, I expect this to be a solid move for him.  He is mentally dialed into the game when hes on the mound.  I won't talk him up like hes some stud, but his baseball IQ is high and there is no emotion when he throws.  He approaches that very workman like as if its just his job.  If it's not what we are hoping for, we will quickly evaluate our options and figure out what is a better play.  I will be excited to see how the Spring HS season goes.  If it goes well we should be fine.  Since this PO deal won't really be a player til June/July, I will update all then.

CaCO3Girl posted:

I've tried to stay out of this and let it play out but the thread seems to be winding down, I have to say I don't get.

A 2019, a 9th grader, is a PO on a 2017 team and this is okay?  I thought for sure TMP would pop in and say something like "You can't restrict yourself to one position before you have even played varsity" or "Playing with kids 2 years older is not the way to get noticed", but no, she popped in and said her kid went PO after 9th grade.

I would be very against my 2020 going to a PO role, it's so narrow, we don't even know what he can really do yet.  Yes, he pitches well, but his hitting and fielding aren't shabby either, why restrict a 2019 with a PO role?  I don't get it.

I am not sure that I understand your point. Time and time again I have made you aware that your son has yet to enter HS. Myself and otherss have told you that when he does things will change., everything will change.  Maybe if you stopped giving advice and sat back and read and learn you will see how some of your stuff you post is just.. well middle schoolish.

The OP stated that his son will become a PO this summer, going into his sophmore year,  and that is when most players who show more promise on the hill than at the plate will become POs.

I think that 2019Lefty21 presented the question well, and got some great responses, and never came here like his son was all that. He reached out to me in PM and we have some things in common , and his sons summer program sounds like it is designed to showcase players in good places. He understands what must happen for his son to become a top prospect. His son also is something most are not, a lefty.

So yea, mine became a PO that summer and remained that way until he entered his senior year in HS. He had the best arm of all the players on any team, could hit, but he lost whatever speed he had.  That's what happens when your wingspan is as wide as an eagle, and legs as long as an ostrich.

So at 6'3" and 160-170lbs throwing the heat that was where he was told (not asked ) he was going to play. They did it then and they do it now.  It was tough for him and us at first, but we learned to be great team supporters.

This isn't for everyone and not everyone is asked to be in that position.  And playing "up" in HS ( not middle school) never hurt anyone. 

Not sure why this struck me as funny, but my 2017 is trying to become a PO but is getting resistance from both his HS coach and travel program.  HS program said he will be used mainly as a pitcher on V team but can expect to play 1b or OF from time to time in V games and 1b in most JV games.  

Travel program thinks he can make it as either a PO or OF in college they want to have him showcase his talents at both positions.  He projects well in both places.

joes87 posted:

"The other thing that confuses me is the phrase "play with your graduating class" is used a lot.  So what's with the playing up?  Be a stud at 15u, be one of the cattle at 17u...why?"

Not sure exactly what side of this you are on is, but in general once you hit HS you should be playing with your graduating class.  If your young for your class that may mean playing up.  In general at the HS level playing at a different grade level will work to your disadvantage when it comes to recruiting.  I can buy the argument, up until you hit HS,  that you need to play with the best talent possible and if that means playing up then do it.  But once you hit HS you are going to hamper your recruiting chances by playing with a different grade.  Again, there are occasional exceptions to this but in general, stick with your graduating class.

 

 In HS son played travel ball with kids who were older and younger. I see no reason not to. After all, if you are on  varsity, you WILL be playing with those older and younger as well. This is really good practice for when you go to play at college, you may be up against those 4+ years older.

Maybe she is getting confused about showcasing with your graduating class, I have always said that. Because those are the players you will be competing for scholarships your grad year. 

I like the comment that players who are freshman playing varsity are playing up and not with their age group. There is some truth there.

As for AAU team (from a position parent's standpoint), if a player will be given playing time (can't "Showcase" if you sit the bench) I think it's quite beneficial--was for son, who played 17U as an 8th grader, and 19U as a sophomore. Gave him the confidence that he could hit quality pitching at a young age, and run against strong older arms behind the plate. His fielding throws from SS were accurate, but naturally didn't have the zip he would develop years later. I would tell him that the field won't grow, but his arm strength will with hard work!

So in summary I am an advocate of "playing up" if you are given the game repetitions (playing time) and have ability to hang with that level.   JMO

I agree with the premise that by junior year in high school a players strengths will be revealed.   At small schools in our area it is almost unheard of to have a pitcher only.  The disadvantage is a kid pitching and then being put in a spot like short stop or catcher where he could potentially injure his arm.  

I a coach manages pitch count I have no problem with my kid playing multiple positions.  However in our case I would prefer my son pitching only and not having to worry about should and arm health.  He can get reps in the field playing American Legion this summer. 

2019Lefty21 posted:

First the entire reason for the thread was to see what others experience on this was and how others sons did with it. We live in WV and we are on our 3rd year with this travel team. My son is 6'2" and left handed and is a very good pitcher. He hits well and is a good outfielder but his place in college at a high level will probably be as a pitcher. Left handed kids his size are a little different than RHP. He is in high school. If the summer travel as a PO is distasteful we will take him to another program. The way it's been explained to me, he will be in greater demand as an LHP than as a outfielder because of his physical tools. We played last season on a team where he was a two way, but as such because he was a Sunday pitcher, other kids with lesser talents usually got field time ahead of him, which in my mind is more distasteful but until kids are in high school that is still little league mentality stuff where dads are doing the coaching. That will not be the case this year. We are going to several high profile 17u tournaments where he will be challenged and there's always the possibility he may be over his head. If so we backup and reevaluate. After the way things went as a 14u last year, we are just happy he has a defined role. Things may be a little different here where there isn't a lot of high quality high exposure travel teams. Didn't mean to create a controversy...sorry folks!

No need to apologize. You did a great job at explaining your son's particular position. Listen to the folks who have been there and you will be fine. 

Best of luck to you and your son 2019Lefty21.  As I said in my first post here, I think how players respond to the situation of becoming a PO really depends a lot on the player.  For my son, he loves playing baseball - position and pitcher.  But his true love is pitching, so he handled it well.  He loves the time he spends in the dugout with his teammates between outings.  He loves being around the field and being part of a team.  But he REALLY loves being on the mound.  That is where his heart lies.  For him, it is his dream - even though he still misses playing in the field.

Let us know how things turn out.  Hopefully, he'll have a great summer!

Thanks! I'd say our sons are very much one in the same! Will let you know how it goes!

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I've tried to stay out of this and let it play out but the thread seems to be winding down, I have to say I don't get.

A 2019, a 9th grader, is a PO on a 2017 team and this is okay?  I thought for sure TMP would pop in and say something like "You can't restrict yourself to one position before you have even played varsity" or "Playing with kids 2 years older is not the way to get noticed", but no, she popped in and said her kid went PO after 9th grade.

I would be very against my 2020 going to a PO role, it's so narrow, we don't even know what he can really do yet.  Yes, he pitches well, but his hitting and fielding aren't shabby either, why restrict a 2019 with a PO role?  I don't get it.

I am not sure that I understand your point. Time and time again I have made you aware that your son has yet to enter HS. Myself and otherss have told you that when he does things will change., everything will change.  Maybe if you stopped giving advice and sat back and read and learn you will see how some of your stuff you post is just.. well middle schoolish.

The OP stated that his son will become a PO this summer, going into his sophmore year,  and that is when most players who show more promise on the hill than at the plate will become POs.

I think that 2019Lefty21 presented the question well, and got some great responses, and never came here like his son was all that. He reached out to me in PM and we have some things in common , and his sons summer program sounds like it is designed to showcase players in good places. He understands what must happen for his son to become a top prospect. His son also is something most are not, a lefty.

So yea, mine became a PO that summer and remained that way until he entered his senior year in HS. He had the best arm of all the players on any team, could hit, but he lost whatever speed he had.  That's what happens when your wingspan is as wide as an eagle, and legs as long as an ostrich.

So at 6'3" and 160-170lbs throwing the heat that was where he was told (not asked ) he was going to play. They did it then and they do it now.  It was tough for him and us at first, but we learned to be great team supporters.

This isn't for everyone and not everyone is asked to be in that position.  And playing "up" in HS ( not middle school) never hurt anyone. 

Where did I give advice?  I repeatedly said "I don't get it", I clued the OP into my naive status, I made it clear my son was a 2020 and I asked questions. 

I am trying to learn why a 2019 who is a good pitcher, but hasn't developed any other (mentioned) deficit would choose (because he clearly said it was a choice) to play PO on a team two years above his current level, when several knowledgeable people on here have said to play with your grade or it bites you come recruiting time.  Couple that with my local academies being very firm that you play with your graduating class and it left me confused.  This all seems pretty relevant information for the parent of a 2020 so I asked questions.

CAGirl,

what is normally meant when people say to play with your grade is basically not to play "down" with your age. I.e. Son has a May birthday. He could play on a team where most of the boys are a grade behind him. Better to play on the team where most of the boys are his grade or even up provided that he gets playing time.

Redfishfool is right.  The advice that is given generally applies to not playing down.  I think there is a little downside to playing up, but it is not as bad as playing down.  Playing your grade is usually the optimal thing, unless there is a reason for it to not be.  My thinking is that when a scout/recruiter is at an event and watching a 17u team, they are thinking that the team is full of guys between junior and senior year.  If a kid is younger, it throws a small wrench in things.  But, that scout/recruiter can always put this kid on his radar to look for next year.  I just think it makes it easier on a recruiter to go to a game knowing what he is look at.  Playing up can be made up for if there is a misunderstanding.  

If you're playing down, you may miss an opportunity because the recruiter thinks he's looking at a team that is too young for what he is looking for.  If it's a 16u team (between sophomore and junior years), he may not even come to the game because he's looking for 17u's.  You're kid may miss on the exposure.

CaCO3Girl, where we live, there are plenty of options.  Any kid can find any kind of team they want.  Plenty of younger teams play up in tournaments to face better competition.  In other areas of the country, there may only be one 15u team.  They may not be that good and they may only play in 15u local tournaments.  If there is a case like that, it may make more sense to play up to face better competition and maybe get on the radar of some coaches early.  

Playing up can have advantages.  Playing down rarely has any advantages for a player looking to move on to the next level.

Hope that makes more sense.

The idea of playing up/down can get convoluted based on the tourneys you are playing. This became apparent to me this past summer. My son was playing on a team that played several national (non-PG) tourneys as either an 18u or 19u team. These tournaments also had 17u divisions. It didn't work out so well for my son. There were plenty of scouts/recruiters at these games. However, they were all DII, DIII, JuCo guys and pro scouts. More than a few liked my son (he had a pretty remarkable summer on the mound) and approached the HC. However, on learning that he was a 2018, they lost interest. Those schools weren't looking that far ahead. Many of the guys on the field were either entering their senior year or had already graduated. These schools were looking to fill immediate needs or, at least, next years roster. All of the DI guys were at the 17u games.

Fast-forward to this year and he's playing on a team mad up mostly of 2019's. However, this is a very, very talented group of 2019's, many whom are already heavily into the recruiting and will draw coaches to their games. They will play mostly PG events as 17u or underclass which works out well for us. So, for the most part, playing with your grade level (within a two year window) puts you where you need to be to have the right people see you.

CaCO3Girl posted:

TPM posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

I've tried to stay out of this and let it play out but the thread seems to be winding down, I have to say I don't get.

A 2019, a 9th grader, is a PO on a 2017 team and this is okay?  I thought for sure TMP would pop in and say something like "You can't restrict yourself to one position before you have even played varsity" or "Playing with kids 2 years older is not the way to get noticed", but no, she popped in and said her kid went PO after 9th grade.

I would be very against my 2020 going to a PO role, it's so narrow, we don't even know what he can really do yet.  Yes, he pitches well, but his hitting and fielding aren't shabby either, why restrict a 2019 with a PO role?  I don't get it.

I am not sure that I understand your point. Time and time again I have made you aware that your son has yet to enter HS. Myself and otherss have told you that when he does things will change., everything will change.  Maybe if you stopped giving advice and sat back and read and learn you will see how some of your stuff you post is just.. well middle schoolish.

The OP stated that his son will become a PO this summer, going into his sophmore year,  and that is when most players who show more promise on the hill than at the plate will become POs.

I think that 2019Lefty21 presented the question well, and got some great responses, and never came here like his son was all that. He reached out to me in PM and we have some things in common , and his sons summer program sounds like it is designed to showcase players in good places. He understands what must happen for his son to become a top prospect. His son also is something most are not, a lefty.

So yea, mine became a PO that summer and remained that way until he entered his senior year in HS. He had the best arm of all the players on any team, could hit, but he lost whatever speed he had.  That's what happens when your wingspan is as wide as an eagle, and legs as long as an ostrich.

So at 6'3" and 160-170lbs throwing the heat that was where he was told (not asked ) he was going to play. They did it then and they do it now.  It was tough for him and us at first, but we learned to be great team supporters.

This isn't for everyone and not everyone is asked to be in that position.  And playing "up" in HS ( not middle school) never hurt anyone. 

Where did I give advice?  I repeatedly said "I don't get it", I clued the OP into my naive status, I made it clear my son was a 2020 and I asked questions. 

I am trying to learn why a 2019 who is a good pitcher, but hasn't developed any other (mentioned) deficit would choose (because he clearly said it was a choice) to play PO on a team two years above his current level, when several knowledgeable people on here have said to play with your grade or it bites you come recruiting time.  Couple that with my local academies being very firm that you play with your graduating class and it left me confused.  This all seems pretty relevant information for the parent of a 2020 so I asked questions.

If you had read ALL of the replies you would understand, this doesn't just apply to this particular topic either. I am trying to tell you that things change, if you read and be patient until your son enters HS, instead of taking the topic in another direction (often) then maybe you will understand.

I will stick to my original post.