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BaseballFan02,

 

This is one of those topics where you're going to get a lot of different answers.  Asking this board and doing some searches in the Pitching section of HSBBWeb will yield many answers and suggestions.  

 

In my experience the quickest way to increase velocity is proper mechanics.  Mechanics is the foundation and once a young player understands how his body works it can be optimized to increase velocity.  I've seen it work with my own sons.  Practice and repeat those proper mechanics.  A long toss program, band- work program (such as Jaeger) coupled with bullpen sessions will make the arm more flexible, sustain, strengthen and protect the arm.    Seperately these things do nothing, but used together I've seen it change pitching velocity over time with diligence and patience.  

 

Just one Dad's opinion and experience.  I strongly urge you to listen to others especially those that do this for a living.

Increased mass + proper mechanics.

 

The extra weight is the easy part and its measurable.

 

Nobody really knows what the proper mechanics are.  If they did, everyone would be going to them, and they would be explaining very simply the 2-3 exact mechanical changes they are making.

 

You might luckily end up with the right mechanics via long toss, but they don't really know why it works sometimes.  Long toss would probably be good for anyone trying to initially get to the mid 80s range.  Beyond that, you would have to have the proper mechanics.

Last edited by SultanofSwat
Originally Posted by StrainedOblique:

Right now I'm voting long toss!

There is absolutley no scientific basis for believing long toss programs are a factor in incresing velocity. The only real study done so far, in fact, came to the conclusion that long toss, at best, has no effect and, at worst, can be harmful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21212502

 

Add on: If you're going to take the time to make extra throws that put stress loads on the arm, why wouldn't you do it from the mound with weighted balls? I've always found it amazing that those who shout to the skys that excessive pitches are such a problem seem to think having a kid throw 250' a couple of dozen times is perfectly harmless.

Last edited by roothog66

Jaeger band workout...my 2018 has been utilizing these on a daily basis and has increased about 5mph in 7 months (68-72)...while this might be part in due to just growing up (he will turn 15 in late june), he does say his arm feels extremely strong --now that i think of it, this might be due to growing up as well, but who knows ...there has been no long toss to go with this band work due to crappy weather...

Last edited by phillyinNJ
Originally Posted by roothog66:
Originally Posted by StrainedOblique:

Right now I'm voting long toss!

There is absolutley no scientific basis for believing long toss programs are a factor in increasing velocity. The only real study done so far, in fact, came to the conclusion that long toss, at best, has no effect and, at worst, can be harmful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21212502

 

Add on: If you're going to take the time to make extra throws that put stress loads on the arm, why wouldn't you do it from the mound with weighted balls? I've always found it amazing that those who shout to the skys that excessive pitches are such a problem seem to think having a kid throw 250' a couple of dozen times is perfectly harmless.

I think a good long toss program is a slow steady and consistent program where 250-320 ft happens at older ages and over the course of months of conditioning.  

I know my son as done long toss since age 13 over a few months to get ready for the baseball season and has had no ill affects.  

There were times when he may have been 50 yds apart and started to feel discomfort and we shut it down.  If nothing else it taught him to never throw through discomfort.

I also think part of the success is psychological because when a player is throwing goal line to goal line on a football field there is a certain morale boost.  I've literally to the point where I don't feel comfortable catching my son once he draws back in and is at 60 feet away throwing with the same intensity as he was at 300 feet.  

A good long toss program is not just throwing but stretching beforehand and relax throws building up to max distance. 

I also believe you can make a comparison between distance thrown at long toss to MPH measured at 60 ft.  

On the flip side Nolan Ryans "long toss" was no more than 200 ft distance. 

 

In the study you cite, the study subjects threw out to about @175 feet (55 meters). I wouldn't consider this a long toss distance for those looking to increase velo. 
 
But that's sort of beside the point. Velo increases can be had with a smart combination of strength training, mobility work, attentive recovery, motor patterning, catch (long toss), and work that specifically strengthens the decelerative musculature around the shoulder blade. That last one is very important because the neurological system will not allow the body to throw as hard as one is able unless that system "knows" it can slow the arm down sufficiently after releasing the ball.
 
Originally Posted by roothog66:
"The only real study done so far, in fact, came to the conclusion that long toss, at best, has no effect and, at worst, can be harmful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21212502"

I've researched the topic on this board, and, as far as I can tell, recommendations to increase velocity fall into the following categories (and I'm probably missing some), in no particular order:

 

(1) Grow up (literally -- get taller and heavier as the months/years go by)

(2) Long toss

(3) Weighted ball programs

(4) Weight training

(5) Band work

(6) Plyometrics (and other strength and flexibility training without weights)

(7) Running sprints (i.e., not long-distance running)

(8) Improve mechanics (defining proper mechanics is an entirely separate issue)

(9) Take pitching lessons

(10) Um . . . pitch?

 

Like the OP, I'm curious as to what to do first (other than no. 1, of course). My vote would be no. 5, but it would be great to hear from someone who followed a particular sequence (e.g., started with band work, then began a long toss program, then hit the weights beginning at age x, etc.)

I like how 2019 broke it down, so I'm going to do it the same way with my answer.  But in particular order:

 

1)  Build a base - Get stronger, bigger (this includes growing up like 2019Dad says), more durable.  Get on a strength training program that is pitching specific.

 

2)  Plyometrics and Speed Training - Pitching is an explosive movement.  Train to become an explosive athlete and you will throw harder.

 

3)  Mobility - Maintain or increase mobility, flexibility, and range of motion so that you can get the most out of your body when pitching.

 

4)  Arm Care - which include bands, dumbbells, massage, rest, running, controlling volume, before, during, after, etc.

 

5)  Mechanics - if you know and can feel how to leverage your body and get the most out of it, you can throw harder.  90% of the pitchers I see don't know how to use their body correctly when moving down the mound.

 

6)  Long Toss - in my pitching program I use long toss with the idea that on days you are feeling good, you throw the baseball as hard as possible.  Just like in the gym if you only lift 10lb weights every time you go in there, you're not going to see any gains.  Same thing goes for long toss.  You can progress in long toss by increasing distance or # of throws.  But the main idea is to throw it hard when you're feeling good.

 

Here is my program:  Pitching365.2

 

I have also purchased Kyle Boddy's program Hacking the Kinetic Chain and really like what was in his book but have yet to complete the program myself.

 

I have also had a few of my pitchers use the Velocity Plus Arm Care program with great success.

 

I think the main thing is to find out what works for you.  This is your journey and you need to learn as much as you can, take away what you like, and build your own philosophy.  Just understand that there is no easy way to throw faster.  For anything worthwhile it takes hard work and sacrifice.  Good Luck!

Originally Posted by tres_arboles:
In the study you cite, the study subjects threw out to about @175 feet (55 meters). I wouldn't consider this a long toss distance for those looking to increase velo. 
 
But that's sort of beside the point. Velo increases can be had with a smart combination of strength training, mobility work, attentive recovery, motor patterning, catch (long toss), and work that specifically strengthens the decelerative musculature around the shoulder blade. That last one is very important because the neurological system will not allow the body to throw as hard as one is able unless that system "knows" it can slow the arm down sufficiently after releasing the ball.
 
Originally Posted by roothog66:
"The only real study done so far, in fact, came to the conclusion that long toss, at best, has no effect and, at worst, can be harmful.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21212502"

Well, 180 feet actually, but I get your point. For those who would like to read the entire study rather than just the abstract:

http://www.jospt.org/mwg-inter...id=9rIsutxRFl&dl

 

Oh dear god lion baseball upto 350ft. That's a football field.

 

1: Mechanics

2: Grow, more weight will cause some additional speed, but I think just growing up is the key

3:  Be in shape focus on core, legs and being in shape. Don't try to bulk up. Use band for pitching arms.

4. We do no long toss for pitchers. I am on the side that long toss teaches bad mechanics in throwing and does not have the desired strengthening effect and velocity has little to do with arm strength.

5. I have never used weighted balls both my high school and college coaches have tried them but saw little improvement and increased injuries. The current varsity coach I work with will not use them either.

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