Coach cussing out HS players

I really don't get it. Seriously. We are a Christian Home were the words "Shut Up" were considered curse words, much more so anything that is commonly held to be impolite. We washed our kids mouth out with soap for the slightest offense. That is how our kids were raised to behave in the world.

However, that does not change the world or the harsh realities of living in the world. If my sons coach felt that his coaching methods warranted the use of profanity to encourage, or shame, or get performance up to par, that is what we will deal with. My sons will hear much worse in the halls and locker rooms of his school and eventual workplace. It is our job to raise them, not coddle them.

The same people that complain about this probably would complain if a Marine Corp Drill Instructor started cursing at a recruit. We are harming our children in the long run if they turn into over sensitive mamby pambys.

We are destroying the masculinity of our youth and removing the "Fight" from who they are. It will not end well if we continue down this path.

Grow a pair, if not, play Soccer or Table Tennis.

People are too easily offended these days.

I actually agree with most of your points.  However, IF the athletic fields and teams are to be considered part of the educational process, THEN the coach has no standing for this sort of behavior.  Those of us who post on this board have all enjoyed sports ourselves, watching children participate from tee ball perhaps through college and some even professional levels, and espouse the virtues that come from sport, learning teamwork, working for a common goal, sacrificing for the good of the team, time management, etc., etc., etc.  Situations like this would make me pull out my old rant and advocate taking sports and extracurricular activities out of the education process, and making them club activities, along the European model.  If you sign up for that, no holds barred.  I just do not believe that it is an educator's position to be using profanity in an educational setting.

My term for the decline in societal behavior is "the abdication of parental responsibility".  It is the parents' job to raise kids to be contributing members of society.  It is the educational system responsibility to provide knowledge and thinking skills for them to further improve society.  However, society (parents, and politicians) have made the schools the dumping grounds for teaching things that should be taught at home.  

Cursing at kids for playing a game is simply not right.  There is no educational value to be gained.  If this is a life lesson, fine, but not on the school's time, property or control.

Again, JMHO, and I believe I'm in the ever shrinking minority.  

I'm going to bet that when/if this made it to the AD, the AD won't be ok with it.  At least not in my school district.  If the AD doesn't move, the school board will to avoid the negative press that something like this can bring upon a school district. 

Justify it how you'd like, a coach that has to cuss his players out has lost the battle already but that is my opinion.  My opinion and roughly $7 will get you an extra value meal at Mickey D's. 

It's not HS, but here's something that happened this year at my son's college D2 school.  Head coach is a cusser.  Would cuss kids out for making stupid mistakes, making bad pitches, whatever.  Shoot, according to my son, he'd sit in the dugout and just cuss to himself about what was happening.  I don't think the assistants are near as bad.  Well, early in the season, his team was 3-5 and had lost our 2nd straight non- conference series.  Coaches were not happy.  Assistant coach went ballistic and cussed out the whole team.  So much so that the head coach didn't say a word.  Apparently, it gave the team the kick in the butt that it needed.  Since then the team has gone 29-6, has not lost a series, is in 1st place in the conference and has gone from unranked to the #10 D2 team in the country.  

Was it all because of the verbal butt-whoopin?  You can't really say for sure, but there sure was a turn around from that point on.  Even though HS coaches are teachers, I don't think the athletic field is the same as the classroom.  It's a different environment.  Classrooms are not geared towards winning against another team.  I'm not a big cusser and did not cuss around my kids when they were growing up, but I'm not naive enough to believe that no one will do it around them.  I've asked my son if this kind of thing bothers him and he just no, it's just the way coach is.  Doesn't mean he is going to be that way.  He was raised differently.

I will start by saying I am not a yeller and a screamer as a coach.  If a coach yells, curses and screams because his team is not hitting, throwing strikes or is making errors…chances are you are going to get less hits, less strikes and more errors.  Baseball is so much about confidence and relaxing while performing.  An old coach of mine once told me….. a coach who can’t coach/ instruct and doesn’t know how to pull a player or team out of a bad run of games and fix things, yells.  They don’t know how to fix it, so they get mad and angry.  A true coach will fix what needs fixing through drills, practice, instruction and confidence building. 

However if a team as a group is being unfocused,  lazy, not hustling, showing up late and unprepared, a coach grabbing HIS teams attention with a few expletives is not the end of the world.  The coach of that team  knows the pulse of that team the best.  I promise you he does.  Again not my style, but I am not going to condemn a coach if he got on his team loudly for a lack of effort.  I do still think a good coach should first self reflect and ask himself, what have I done wrong to have my team playing like we are.  Then go directly to individual players with talks about effort, hustle or instruction and then take away playing time.  As a coach you have to know your audience.  Some players will respond to an ass chewing and some will get worse in their play.  While the end result of what I want from my players is the same for all, how I get there with each individual player could differ.    

Also understand, coaches are human, and make mistakes.  If he went too far and yelled, cursed and screamed just because his team lost to a better team then he may reflect and never take that route again as a HS coach.  I am not sure how long this guy has coached HS for but it may be a mistake that he regrets and will learn from it and become a better coach from it.  In any case, I would never approach the coach or AD as a parent and correct him.  First my son would have hated me for the rest of my life for interfering with his team.  Secondly I would rather my son learn to deal with it rather than protect him from it.

well the way I see it the coach went on a rant and dropped a few f bombs and maybe a s**t here and there. My response is, so what?  No where in the op does it say that the coach verbally abused a player or directed a profanity laced outburst at a player. All it said was that in the opinion of the poster that the team they played was bigger faster and stronger, in his opinion, not the coaches. Maybe the coach has a higher opinion of his team and expected so much more out of them . Maybe he felt they folded under the pressure of  a possible upset maybe. Who knows Maybe that's where it came from. I would much rather have a coach drop some f bombs in a team based rant then to have him berate individual players in the same setting. Or maybe get physical with them This seems like a non issue to me.

At the college level or above, it happens.  A non-event.

Below the college level, it's bad coaching.  No excuse for it.  None.

However, Dave,  I wouldn't say anything to him if I were you.

The "so what" is that it only takes one or two parents or players hitting the record button on their iPhone, capturing the coaches rant, typing up a transcript to go with it, handing it to the AD and superintendent along with a formal complaint... And the coach is probably gone, or at the least seriously reprimanded.  "Wait, I'ma ol' school coach" won't make for much of a defense.  And the fact that 95% of the players and parents are totally supportive of the coach won't matter either.

That's just reality today, whether we like it or not.  Gotta be smart.

"However if a team as a group is being unfocused,  lazy, not hustling, showing up late and unprepared, a coach grabbing HIS teams attention with a few expletives is not the end of the world." 

Any HS coach whose team is lazy, not hustling, showing up late, etc., is a pathetically bad leader and should look INWARD--should look in the mirror.

Not a good idea because you can bet there will be some parents who will go to bat for coach and it will divide players and parents. He's not calling kids f ing losers or anything personal just cursed in anger in general way. For all we know this was a one time deal out of frustration. Would u like to lose your job over one bad decision, comment?

 If a parent is a perfect human being who never makes a mistake go ahead I guess. Bit judgemental in my book. Hope kid doesn't think it's ok to tape at work or in classroom when they don't agree w something. Can be a slippery slope.

Freddy77 that is literally what I said.  Keep reading the next couple of sentences of my post after what you pasted.

"However if a team as a group is being unfocused,  lazy, not hustling, showing up late and unprepared, a coach grabbing HIS teams attention with a few expletives is not the end of the world.  The coach of that team  knows the pulse of that team the best.  I promise you he does.  Again not my style, but I am not going to condemn a coach if he got on his team loudly for a lack of effort.  I do still think a good coach should first self reflect and ask himself, what have I done wrong to have my team playing like we are."

shortnquick,

I apologize, I didn't read your whole post carefully enough.

I still say it is a so what situation. Sorry but bad language is not a crime. Might not be proper etiquette some people might be put off but I still say so what. As long as its in the course of the rant and not directed abusively at a player or players . You do not have to use bad language to be abusive, have seen that one way to many times then I care to remember.

No problem Freddy!

Why do people think soccer is a pansy sport? There's a lot of contact in soccer. Playing soccer is one of the two times my son was knocked out playing sports.

Before anyone answers faking injuries, that rarely happens. It's ignorant sportscasters who don't know soccer and show the same video over and over ad nauseam who have created that false image.

I hear comments like soccer is easy. You stand somewhere and kick the ball. Well in baseball all you do is throw the ball, hit it and catch it. What's so hard about that? You can have a pot belly and play pro baseball. It's how people who don't like baseball see it.

There are cities and towns around the country where swearing in public is a misdemeanor.

High school coaches shouldn't be swearing around players. But if they do I personally wouldn't worry about. Back in the 70's my high school coaches all swore. The football coaches had no problem insulting your masculinity. I tuned out the insults about my religion. As players, no one I knew was offended. In fact, the worse it was the more we mocked the behavior away from the school. I have three former high school teammates I still get together with. After a few beers the coach imitations start.

Playball - Think you may have misunderstood my meaning, though I'm not sure how.  I wasn't recommending that parents or kids should go do this.  The point is simply that it can be done very easily.  Coaches need to understand this and be aware.  And to your point, once that happens... It matters little if some parents or all other parents "go to bat" for the coach. It potentially takes ONE family registering the well documented complaint... The credible threat of legal action... And a coach is at great risk.  The question isn't whether or not things should be this way, the point is that things are this way.  Those F bombs are truly explosive when you read them in black and white on a written transcript. Word to the wise.

Crime has nothing to do with it.  I played 5A football here in Texas... There's nothing any coach could say or do that will phase me.  And on a personal level, plenty of coaches in various sports have ripped my kid in similar manner... Doesn't bother him or me.  But... None of that matters.  Check the calendar... Its a different world today.  Coaches can go "old school" if they want, but they're taking their chances. Whether these rants are effective coaching approach is another question entirely.

There are coaches that swear and there are coaches that don't.  If someone can't deal with that, might as well cut baseball right away, because it is just a matter of time before you run across the guy that swears.  In fact, if you play long enough you're going to run across a lot of them.

Personally, I never was much of a swearer.  Took something special to get to that stage.  Bit it did happen at times!  The main thing for me is I never wanted to embarrass a player in front of his team or anyone else.  IMO opinion players performed best when they were comfortable.  Coaches get to know their players, often even the language can change from one player to the next.

i have to disagree that using foul language means you have lost anything.  Some of the greatest managers and coaches that ever lived are among those that swear the most. If that is so hard to believe, take a lesson in lip reading and start watching the arguments with umpires and referees.

You don't have to like it, but it is something you have to deal with. I don't think it is possible to avoid it and still continue playing.

Just finished a fabulous book that touches on this and other "rules of behavior." It's called the Curmudgeon's Guide to Getting Ahead: Dos and Don'ts of Right Behavior, Tough Thinking, Clear Writing, and Living a Good Life, by Charles Murray. I immediately gave it to my 3 college-age kids. He has a whole section "On the proper use of strong language." He makes a compelling case for "abstaining from casual obscenity," in the workplace or otherwise.

Just another guys opinion.  Besides, by the title of this "whole section", he is saying that there is a proper use of strong language.  Maybe not using casual obscenity in your daily life, but, if he's saying there is a proper use of strong language, he is saying there is a time and a place for it.  Maybe this was one of those times for this coach.

To me coaching is all about getting the most out of your players.  As I said before, I think players have to feel comfortable with everything.  Not comfort like taking it easy, but mentally comfortable.

Your players are never the same when it comes to reaching this level of comfortable.

Please try to understand this even if I don't explain it well enough.  There are players that can deal with some bad language once in awhile, but become uncomfortable if it is an every other word thing.  Then there are players that fell most comfortable with the coach swearing a lot.   Obviously there is much more than swearing or not swearing involved in reaching this comfort level where the player can perform the best.

I just think that every player is different.  I don't think you can treat every individual exactly the same and expect to get the most out of them all. Of course, team rules and philosophy need to be the same, but communication is important and a coach needs to find out what works best for each individual.  

There are kids that perform best when you tell them they can't do something.  Others do best when you assure them they can do something.  Some are most comfortable hearing some bad language.  Others are more comfortable without it.

That is about coaching!  Players, on the other hand, need to adjust to whatever they have. Because your going to see it all if you play long enough.

We were involved in a "coach's behavior" situation last year.  To make a long story short, the coach and his son (assistant coach) were occasional cussers, but most players/parents weren't overly concerned about it.  It was the sarcasm, demeaning and embarrassing comments, the making fun of the kids, etc that was over the top.  Several players wanted to quit because they were tired of the berating and lack of encouragement they were getting from the coaches.  The coach straight-up told them from day 1 that they were not a very good team and he didn't expect them to win many games. 

The players held a meeting amongst themselves and brought in the parents because they claimed the coaches would ignore them or make fun of them if they discussed their concerns directly.  All but 2 players were in agreement that something had to be done.  Once the AD and the principal were notified, there were one-on-one meetings with the principal and the players, meetings with the coaches, the AD, and principal, and visits to the ball field by the AD and principal.  Finally, a meeting was arranged with the parents, the coaches, the AD, and principal.  The parents aired their concerns, the coaches pretty much deflected their behavior, gave a half-hearted apology, and in the end, the AD and principal swept it all under the rug as if nothing ever happened.

Bottom line is these coaches were terrible motivators; they did nothing to inspire or instill confidence in what I thought was a pretty talented team.  They were playing scared and they won a total of 3 games all season.

I don't think it's really the cussing that's a problem for the kids, because it can be an effective form of communication (at times), but it is the overall impact a coach's demeanor has on his players that's important.

I think everyone can agree that different players react differently to different scenarios.  And that different strategies work better with different players.  It is a coach's job to figure out what works best for each individual player.

I also think that a coach has to deal with individual players AND he also has to deal with the team as a whole.  To have the whole team together and give them the business after an apparently sloppy game is something that needs to be done from time to time.  And it is different than working with players as individuals.  Dealing with the team as an entity and dealing with individual players, each as an entity, are two different things.

I will never get mad at players for not being talented enough. Lack of hustle, effort, and doing something that we have stressed against all year will get me upset. 

So what I'm reading is a bunch of young kids with no power keep hitting lazy fly balls. My old coach had a saying, if you can't hit it out don't hit it up. I'm going through this with my catchers right now as I'm trying to unteach them the "catch everything in the dirt method" and get them back to blocking everything in the dirt. In practice they block everything, as soon as a game comes along they go right back to the glove and it is super frustrating as a coach. 

Now to the cussing. Was it directed at players or used in general? I will admit that I cuss in front of my players but nothing is directed at them individually. "You guys need to f-ing wake up." type of statement. Never "You are f-ing awful" or something like that. 

This thread has weaved over a number of interesting topics.  Here's a handful:

Wait until college, joining the military or getting a job.  -- Adults and paid activities.  Not the same.

Cussing is a legitimate tactic if it is not directed at specific players -- very thin line here.  You guys need to pull your $#@t together while staring down a player is 1 to 1.  It is a very sharp tool like a chainsaw.  It can clear a forest or cut your leg off.

What is acceptable on school grounds and activities --  Simple one here.  If it doesn't fly in 4th period it doesn't fly on the playing field. 

They will hear it in life so let them get used to it now AKA Toughen up -- Interesting one here.  Let's make schools real.  Actually grade kids work and kick the failures out, for good.  You're fired no second chances.  Stop all non productive expenditures for activities not geared toward learning key skills.  Sports, clubs, special education etc. all cut out because all this play is foolishness.  Stay mission focused  Let's run schools like a business and get kids to treat it like a job. 14 might be to late...back this one up to Middle school and start them thinking like this at 10.  We'll never beat the Chinese (insert anyone else as needed) otherwise.

Role of player --  Do your best, have fun, try to win and stay heathly.

Role of a parent -- finding the best way to let go while creating a safe and successful environment for your children to grow up and hopefully move out.  Hardest job of all.  But totally hands off at 14-18 is a non starter.  There are circumstances where minors need adults to step in and do the right thing.  Knowing when that is - $1mm question.

Role of Coach -- Teach the sport, create positive environment for players to do their best and have fun.  Anything more than that and you are way ahead as a player and parent.  That coach is a community treasure never let him go if you can help it.

Role of AD/School administration -- Make sure coach is fulfilling his role noted above and taking action if he does not.  It does not matter one bit if the school ever wins anything for the trophy case if that is not happening.

Role of the Law -- Last resort when everything else breaks down.

Doesn't make it right or wrong what the coach did but what PG stated is so very true.

Are some of you so naïve that you think that your sons never heard or never used a bad word?

Do not get involved, let your son handle it, which he probably did already because most would consider it done and over with.

Move on.

I would hate to be a coach today with parents who second guess everything and contact administration about anything they disagree with. So what if profanity was used? And the talk about getting pastors involved is crap. Christians behave no better than anyone else. I've known men of the cloth who could swear better than this coach.

I must have misunderstood u as u have me. Im not suggesting u said to do that just saying that can cause more harm than good to video. thete are always a few parents/players who r not happy w a coach for a variety of reasons. Some like to run to AD and tattle, usu without getting whole story Or talking to coach first. Some do same w teachers/principal. There r a number of players/families who love same coach. When the angry ones get him in trouble the others will stand by coach and be ticked at teammates/their parents for going to AD. Now u have a team that can't get along and problems like that tear apart a team. 

sorry for confusion