I was just doing the numbers and see that Vandy has 45 commitments from players in the 2016, 2017, and 2018 classes. I also would assume they aren't completely through. I do realize that the quality of commitments they have is on the extreme end of exceptional talent. For a school like this, how many kids can they assume they will lose to the draft and grades? What would be a normal number of commitments for any three year period?
Replies sorted oldest to newest
sent you a PM
The "odd" thing is, based on commitments listed on the PG site, they are evenly split among the three classes. Looking at 2016, 2 pitchers jump out immediately as draft losses, so would assume 2 draft losses per class.
As for grades and other issues, it would be neat if you could go back in time and look at commitment lists - for instance go back 24 months and pull the Vanderbilt commits for 2014-2016 and see where everyone landed. I forgot to print this off 24 months ago and have no idea how to recreate at this point.
Additionally, some folks may have insight into how many players commit/enroll only to later transfer out (perhaps they realize playing time was not going to materialize) - I assume there is some loss of players even after they enter Vandy's freshman class.
Vandy's 2016 class has exactly 1 senior. They have 8 juniors plus 4 RS sophomores, 9 true sophomores and... the largest class being 14 freshmen.
I think it's a bit like airline overbooking. I assume they know that there will be a significant number of no shows come the fall for one reason or another. I once looked at some top programs to track this just out of curiosity. An impressive number of commits to the very top programs either end up signing with mlb. Others end up getting drafted but not quite high enough or high enough but without the right signing bonus being put on the table and decide to go the JC route so they can re-enter sooner. Then there are injuries and academics which also play a role. You can't really blame coaches for hedging their bets. If you're going to recruit that caliber of player, you gotta know going in your going to lose a fair number.
in the 2015 vandy class 18 committed.... 8 were drafted ......5 signed... the others are rostered
in the 2014 vandy class 15 committed......5 were drafted .....5 signed ...the others are rostered
in the 2013 vandy class 13 committed..... 1 were drafted..... 1 signed.... the others are rostered
there are two sr's ..... and they lost one player that was not rostered or drafted.
37 on roster...... 27-28 travel .... a few will medical RS not as bad as people think
All freshman who show up with baseball scholarship will make the roster, players ARE not redshirts until declared at the end of the season. If on scholarship they are counters. A team can have more than the allotted amount, but they will not be on the spring roster nor will they have baseball scholarships. So you can have 40 guys show up and technically end up with a legit 35 man roster with 5 still hanging around if they want to.
Think twice about being a walk on.
And keep in mind that some programs are better than others when working roster numbers.
Vandy is one of them.
bacdorslider posted:I think if your good enough to walk on at Vandy , you would be good enough to be a scholarship guy at another school. But I know a few that got academic full rides , might not play much , but wanted the exp. and the degree
Maybe? But not necessarily. Vandy is a high end academic school.
As Stanford is comparable, I can tell you that Stanford told us that its easier to make the roster there as a walkon than at many high D1 schools due to the fact that the pool of 'eliglible' players is limited. I would assume Vandy has some of that too.
So, a walkon at Stanford/Vandy/Duke/etc... is not necessarily >> walkon or scholarship player at AnyState U.
interesting thought Justbaseball. Had never thought of it that way but makes perfect sense
Justbaseball, just so I understand, your are saying that at Standford the admission requirements for student athletes is the same as non student athletes?
bacdorslider posted:Justbaseball, just so I understand, your are saying that at Standford the admission requirements for student athletes is the same as non student athletes?
For a proposed walkon? Essentially yes so far as I know. Two of our sons good friends made the team as walkons. One didn't make his HS varsity team until his senior year. Since I knew both of their parents before they attended Stanford, I know they believed they got no favors on admissions.
Its always possible that the coaches were able to nudge them across the goal line? Don't know. But neither player ever received any positive feedback from the coaches until after they were admitted on the regular admissions time scale (March). It seemed to them at least that after that date, the coaches then contacted them to say, 'hey, we hope you're interested in trying out for the team and if you do we expect you to make it.'
justbaseball posted:bacdorslider posted:I think if your good enough to walk on at Vandy , you would be good enough to be a scholarship guy at another school. But I know a few that got academic full rides , might not play much , but wanted the exp. and the degreeMaybe? But not necessarily. Vandy is a high end academic school.
As Stanford is comparable, I can tell you that Stanford told us that its easier to make the roster there as a walkon than at many high D1 schools due to the fact that the pool of 'eliglible' players is limited. I would assume Vandy has some of that too.
So, a walkon at Stanford/Vandy/Duke/etc... is not necessarily >> walkon or scholarship player at AnyState U.
Stanford is more stringent with academic minimums than Vandy or Duke. Factor that in... Duke is a min 26 ACT, Notre Dame (not mentioned) is a min 24 ACT, and the min's are different for all the sports.
Just mentioning for context...
Stanford seems to draw the strongest student/athlete mix.
justbaseball posted:bacdorslider posted:Justbaseball, just so I understand, your are saying that at Standford the admission requirements for student athletes is the same as non student athletes?
For a proposed walkon? Essentially yes so far as I know. Two of our sons good friends made the team as walkons. One didn't make his HS varsity team until his senior year. Since I knew both of their parents before they attended Stanford, I know they believed they got no favors on admissions.
Its always possible that the coaches were able to nudge them across the goal line? Don't know. But neither player ever received any positive feedback from the coaches until after they were admitted on the regular admissions time scale (March). It seemed to them at least that after that date, the coaches then contacted them to say, 'hey, we hope you're interested in trying out for the team and if you do we expect you to make it.'
I did not know that you could even walk-on at Stanford. I know there are walk-ons in the standard sense and there are walk-ons where you have been recruited and they have no money to offer you but you still have a good shot at the team.
I think Vandy is a bit different. They tend to look at the type of player they want. Granted they start in the top 500 players in any given class. But inside those 500 players they are looking for more than athletics, but they are also not just looking for high academic athletes. One's grades do matter but that's only a piece of the overall picture.
Also, a player might be under athletic money the freshman season and academic the sophomore season and FA the jr season or some combination of. Also, I can see the ones that are in line for a huge check might just pay their own way to help the team ......
this is interesting if any cares to read.
http://www.baseballamerica.com...key-college-success/
Gov posted:justbaseball posted:bacdorslider posted:I think if your good enough to walk on at Vandy , you would be good enough to be a scholarship guy at another school. But I know a few that got academic full rides , might not play much , but wanted the exp. and the degreeMaybe? But not necessarily. Vandy is a high end academic school.
As Stanford is comparable, I can tell you that Stanford told us that its easier to make the roster there as a walkon than at many high D1 schools due to the fact that the pool of 'eliglible' players is limited. I would assume Vandy has some of that too.
So, a walkon at Stanford/Vandy/Duke/etc... is not necessarily >> walkon or scholarship player at AnyState U.
Stanford is more stringent with academic minimums than Vandy or Duke. Factor that in... Duke is a min 26 ACT, Notre Dame (not mentioned) is a min 24 ACT, and the min's are different for all the sports.
Just mentioning for context...
I agree with all of that other than I do not know if there are specific cutoff numbers. I'd be surprised if they don't all look at the full picture. For sure, Stanford does.
Keeping in mind that this is more than 10 years ago and things have probably changed at least some, our older son was also recruited very hard by ND. ND coaches basically forwarded his transcript and SATs to admissions who within a few days said, 'yes, he will get in. He still has to fill out he app, but he will get in.' Stanford on the other hand required the full app first with teacher recommendations and essays...and 2+ weeks of nervous waiting. His situation being a recruited athletic scholarship guy, not a walkon.
Gov posted:Stanford seems to draw the strongest student/athlete mix.
My impression is that would be correct. Although I've heard Georgetown may be a little tougher - just heard it, no firsthand experience.
bacdorslider posted:justbaseball posted:bacdorslider posted:Justbaseball, just so I understand, your are saying that at Standford the admission requirements for student athletes is the same as non student athletes?
For a proposed walkon? Essentially yes so far as I know. Two of our sons good friends made the team as walkons. One didn't make his HS varsity team until his senior year. Since I knew both of their parents before they attended Stanford, I know they believed they got no favors on admissions.
Its always possible that the coaches were able to nudge them across the goal line? Don't know. But neither player ever received any positive feedback from the coaches until after they were admitted on the regular admissions time scale (March). It seemed to them at least that after that date, the coaches then contacted them to say, 'hey, we hope you're interested in trying out for the team and if you do we expect you to make it.'
I did not know that you could even walk-on at Stanford. I know there are walk-ons in the standard sense and there are walk-ons where you have been recruited and they have no money to offer you but you still have a good shot at the team.
I think Vandy is a bit different. They tend to look at the type of player they want. Granted they start in the top 500 players in any given class. But inside those 500 players they are looking for more than athletics, but they are also not just looking for high academic athletes. One's grades do matter but that's only a piece of the overall picture.
Also, a player might be under athletic money the freshman season and academic the sophomore season and FA the jr season or some combination of. Also, I can see the ones that are in line for a huge check might just pay their own way to help the team ......
this is interesting if any cares to read.
http://www.baseballamerica.com...key-college-success/
I think all of that applies to Stanford as well in our experience, except the academic money. I do not believe Stanford offers academic money.
Also, to be clear I believe that Stanford also has 'recruited walkons' that aren't offered $$ but promised a spot on the team. Still, my original comment that it may be easier to make the team there than other high D1's comes straight from 9's mouth to my ears. And I would say I believe it.
Stanford and Vandy often compete for the same players. Recent on-field results suggest that Vandy is getting the better of that competition lately.
Not sure if Stanford and Vandy coaches have the same mindset of their walk-ons, but a team mate of my son's was being recruited as a preferred walk-on. The coach asked him what grades he expected he'd be making. The kid told him that he'd likely be getting straight B's. The coach said that he required his walk-ons to pull 4.0.
Clearly, their role on that team is to carry the team GPA while the talent plays.
Not that this adds anything to this conversation, but I mention it when it comes up. Tim Corbin is a OWU grad. He was classmates and room mates with current assistant Fody Frentsos. OWU coaches have been welcomed to Vandy on several occasions.
https://twitter.com/owubaseball1
Nuke83 posted:Not sure if Stanford and Vandy coaches have the same mindset of their walk-ons, but a team mate of my son's was being recruited as a preferred walk-on. The coach asked him what grades he expected he'd be making. The kid told him that he'd likely be getting straight B's. The coach said that he required his walk-ons to pull 4.0.
Clearly, their role on that team is to carry the team GPA while the talent plays.
If you're talking about Stanford (unclear from you post), I'd say it more like they don't get more than a handful of 'assists' from admissions and they're going to use them on the kids they have to compete with other schools for (not typically walkons). But even those kids are pretty academically well qualified.
In other words, the coach knows they won't get in without superior academic credentials. He's just telling them the truth.
As for the walkons not playing? On average, they'd likely have less playing time or they woulda been an athletic recruit in the first place. But there was certainly no fence around them in terms of playing time when our son was there. Some pretty heavy contributors were walkons and at times some played ahead of our son. They're trying to win - best player at the time plays.
Glad I found this. Son has focus on certain schools for majors/education. It ranges from Davidson, GTech, Richmond, Wofford to a couple of high academic D3's. He wants to play and will be accepted to at least 3 of these, 2 have in the past expressed interest but if you look at commits probably not. Does anyone have experience with walking on at these 3? He's top 1000 PG, hitting is his thing. He knows it will end but doesn't want it to end b/c he chose the school that doesn't look at walk ons that are not prearranged. He has no bad college choices and likes them all.
justbaseball posted:Gov posted:Stanford seems to draw the strongest student/athlete mix.
My impression is that would be correct. Although I've heard Georgetown may be a little tougher - just heard it, no firsthand experience.
I offer Patrick Ewing and Allen Iverson as exhibits 1 and 1A I can get more names if you want...there are plenty!! Listen I get Georgetown is great school just not that they are hard to get into for the student/athlete mix.
I think the high academic applies to all sports except the money maker basketball at Georgetown. 2 of my siblings went there and many played sports. I met none that did make the cut academically.
A neighbor's son played basketball at Duke. He informed me the entrance standards for basketball players is much different than other sports. I was told the same thing by Duke parents when I attended a baseball game and asked questions.
Add: I should add my neighbors kid was not a dummy. He graduated in the top 10% of his class at a prestigious academic private school. But getting into Duke without being a future NBA player might not have been in the cards.
old_school posted:justbaseball posted:Gov posted:Stanford seems to draw the strongest student/athlete mix.
My impression is that would be correct. Although I've heard Georgetown may be a little tougher - just heard it, no firsthand experience.
I offer Patrick Ewing and Allen Iverson as exhibits 1 and 1A I can get more names if you want...there are plenty!! Listen I get Georgetown is great school just not that they are hard to get into for the student/athlete mix.
John Thompson and then his son John Thompson III were big on giving underprivileged minorities an opportunity at education. JT was very against Prop 48 (minimum SAT scores). He recruited Allen Iverson. Iverson was a gang thug. He killed a kid in high school. It didn't stop him from getting accepted to Georgetown. Always follow the money. Hoops is a big money maker and spotlight for G'town.
RJM posted:A neighbor's son played basketball at Duke. He informed me the entrance standards for basketball players is much different than other sports. I was told the same thing by Duke parents when I attended a baseball game and asked questions.
Duke has a minimum 26 ACT for baseball players, per Coach Pollard
RJM posted:old_school posted:John Thompson and then his son John Thompson III were big on giving underprivileged minorities an opportunity at education. JT was very against Prop 48 (minimum SAT scores). He recruited Allen Iverson. Iverson was a gang thug. He killed a kid in high school. It didn't stop him from getting accepted to Georgetown. Always follow the money. Hoops is a big money maker and spotlight for G'town.
Listen I hate Georgetown basketball and but I love giving a kid a chance...Iverson was a thug before he got to G'town, while he was there, after he left and still is. Ewing seems to be a stand up guy from what I can recollect.
Bottom line in this conversation is you can't make the statement G'town is toughest to get in while creating that big of an exception for the hoops players. Would Stanford, Duke, Vandy or ND or however many other of taken the same kids that were so far below the normal standards? even grading on a curb these kids weren't close.
Vanderbilt? A kid from our high school was recruited for football. They liked his 4.25. It wasn't his GPA. It was either his forty time or his IQ. He lasted one semester. The kid was also on probation for decking a police officer. When he wasn't having emotional problems he was a nice kid to talk with. But he was dumb as a bag of rocks and emotionally erratic. He transferred and lasted a year at a MAc. He's in distribution now. Any explanation needed?
old_school posted:RJM posted:old_school posted:John Thompson and then his son John Thompson III were big on giving underprivileged minorities an opportunity at education. JT was very against Prop 48 (minimum SAT scores). He recruited Allen Iverson. Iverson was a gang thug. He killed a kid in high school. It didn't stop him from getting accepted to Georgetown. Always follow the money. Hoops is a big money maker and spotlight for G'town.
Listen I hate Georgetown basketball and but I love giving a kid a chance...Iverson was a thug before he got to G'town, while he was there, after he left and still is. Ewing seems to be a stand up guy from what I can recollect.
Bottom line in this conversation is you can't make the statement G'town is toughest to get in while creating that big of an exception for the hoops players. Would Stanford, Duke, Vandy or ND or however many other of taken the same kids that were so far below the normal standards? even grading on a curb these kids weren't close.
Nothing more than a look at Vandy's commitments shows at least one kid with a 2.9 gpa and several lower than you would expect. I think some schools, more than others, give the coach a few spots. Now, whether they can succeed academically once in school...
