Yawn
Who will be taking folks into their family while they go through the process? Can we set up a thread with host families and a place to fill-in one's name, etc.? LOL.
I have enjoyed the WBC and seen some great games, love Italians and pasta!!! you can never have to much corn beef or pastrami!
I just find amusing that Team Israel has 5 or 6 kids from Area Codes games...it is a hell of a long trip from Tel Aviv!! And the 120 plus perfect game events or whatever number PG found they were at...I did search for PG in the middle east but didn't find anything!
We haven't even addressed the Netherlands....who knew??? I thought played soccer and rode bikes! Baseball is like the 2nd national past time apparently!
I don't have any doubt the rules are being followed to the letter (the same rules that use earned runs allowed as the tie breaker LOL) but it doesn't pass the smell test. I am glad American kids get chance to play, I enjoy watching it, but IMO call it what it is....a bunch a Americans who aren't good enough to make the roster of the home country, playing as mercenary because they are needed for the event to have enough depth to be competitive!!
If you don't speak the language, haven't lived in the country, never visited the country...aren't a citizen...but your grandmother had a Jewish father - Whoohoo that is proof - go Israel!! It rings a bit hollow to me. Keep in mind I have friend of the family playing in for Italy and am very happy for him, it is awesome...but that doesn't make him Italian!!
Some of us just get our panties knotted up a bit if you disagree on here.
RJM posted:cabbagedad posted:I think they have the model about as close as they can get to being right in order for the event to have distinct national flavor and pride and still be a competitive tourney. Nothing is perfect but I think it's cool... just wish there was more readily available TV coverage.
I think all the games are on ESPN3 and ESPN Deportes. When I went on the app a few nights ago there was a screen full of WBC logos with game numbers. Tonight at 9pm on Deportes is USA-Venezuela.
Yeah, we just have ESPN, 2 and U
I LOVE THE VIBE FROM THE WBC. The play is more flashy and although many of the players arent "Major Leaguers" it still has some pretty good athletes displaying their abilities. Some of the showmanship is pretty cool. No way they are that animated in the MLB. But it is fun in this venue. I wished there was more coverage cause the games have been pretty good. My firend went to the USAvs Dom Rep game and he couldnt say enough about the noise level and the fun he had. This event is now a "must do" for me. We both have been to multiple World Series and if he is raving about the party atmoshpere at the game, then it is something I want to experience.
"If you don't speak the language, haven't lived in the country, never visited the country...aren't a citizen...but your grandmother had a Jewish father"
You really didn't understand the requirements to become an automatic Israeli. The hypothetical player you sketched out would not be eligible for automatic citizenship and, therefore, not able to play for team Israel.
(To be correct, the grandmother would have needed a Jewish mother [who would have needed a Jewish mother, etc., etc.], the grandmother's daughter needed to give birth to a daughter, who in turn gave birth to the ball playing son. The lineage test is ONLY through the mothers.)
Ironically, the example you gave would have been good enough for a ticket to the ovens (because those "laws" did not distinguish between male/female ancestry), but actually not good enough to become an Israeli citizen or play for Israel in the WBC.
This is just an opportunity to explain a concept most people don't know - not arguing one way or another.
Goosegg posted:"If you don't speak the language, haven't lived in the country, never visited the country...aren't a citizen...but your grandmother had a Jewish father"
You really didn't understand the requirements to become an automatic Israeli. The hypothetical player you sketched out would not be eligible for automatic citizenship and, therefore, not able to play for team Israel.
(To be correct, the grandmother would have needed a Jewish mother [who would have needed a Jewish mother, etc., etc.], the grandmother's daughter needed to give birth to a daughter, who in turn gave birth to the ball playing son. The lineage test is ONLY through the mothers.)
Ironically, the example you gave would have been good enough for a ticket to the ovens (because those "laws" did not distinguish between male/female ancestry, but actually not good enough to become an Israeli citizen or play for Israel in the WBC.
Its ok Goosegg, in all of the years I have posted, I have never found more ignorant, close minded individuals than a few that have posted in this topic.
old_school posted:I have enjoyed the WBC and seen some great games, love Italians and pasta!!! you can never have to much corn beef or pastrami!
I just find amusing that Team Israel has 5 or 6 kids from Area Codes games...it is a hell of a long trip from Tel Aviv!! And the 120 plus perfect game events or whatever number PG found they were at...I did search for PG in the middle east but didn't find anything!
We haven't even addressed the Netherlands....who knew??? I thought played soccer and rode bikes! Baseball is like the 2nd national past time apparently!
I don't have any doubt the rules are being followed to the letter (the same rules that use earned runs allowed as the tie breaker LOL) but it doesn't pass the smell test. I am glad American kids get chance to play, I enjoy watching it, but IMO call it what it is....a bunch a Americans who aren't good enough to make the roster of the home country, playing as mercenary because they are needed for the event to have enough depth to be competitive!!
If you don't speak the language, haven't lived in the country, never visited the country...aren't a citizen...but your grandmother had a Jewish father - Whoohoo that is proof - go Israel!! It rings a bit hollow to me. Keep in mind I have friend of the family playing in for Italy and am very happy for him, it is awesome...but that doesn't make him Italian!!
Some of us just get our panties knotted up a bit if you disagree on here.
Preach!
TPM posted:Goosegg posted:"If you don't speak the language, haven't lived in the country, never visited the country...aren't a citizen...but your grandmother had a Jewish father"
You really didn't understand the requirements to become an automatic Israeli. The hypothetical player you sketched out would not be eligible for automatic citizenship and, therefore, not able to play for team Israel.
(To be correct, the grandmother would have needed a Jewish mother [who would have needed a Jewish mother, etc., etc.], the grandmother's daughter needed to give birth to a daughter, who in turn gave birth to the ball playing son. The lineage test is ONLY through the mothers.)
Ironically, the example you gave would have been good enough for a ticket to the ovens (because those "laws" did not distinguish between male/female ancestry, but actually not good enough to become an Israeli citizen or play for Israel in the WBC.
Its ok Goosegg, in all of the years I have posted, I have never found more ignorant, close minded individuals than a few that have posted in this topic.
TPM, you present a real interesting point, one that again seems to paint you as a protagonist (once again in my observation, and you are probably shocked to hear that - but many I converse with on this site say the same thing to me in PM). You seem to feel those who disagree with the way the teams are allowed to be constructed are closed minded. That is not really the case. If the laws to be eligible for citizenship to a country are whatever they are, and they are followed, then it's all good. The thing that I don't care for is the sudden groundswell of patriotism for these countries that, and let me be perfectly clear I am not 100% certain on this, none of these players have actually changed their citizenship to, actually disheartens me.
I don't think I've ever mentioned this, because I don't generally go around doing it, but I am a veteran. Not just a do your 4-years kind of veteran, but a dyed in the wool lifer. Please do not thank me for my service. I did not serve for anyone's appreciation. I served for my beliefs, my own personal sense of patriotism. I don't stand to be recognized as a veteran at public events because frankly it embarrasses me that it's become something of a cliché ever since the first gulf war.
But this is I guess why I feel the way I do, because while it is "just baseball" and in reality it's nothing more than a marketing job by MLB to grow the game internationally (and there is nothing wrong with that), it's the feigned sense of nationalism that these players, parents, friends and fans seem to feel is ok as long as it is in the name of baseball. I mean, you are American or not. It's that simple to me. So, if ANY of these players want to sack up and change their citizenship in the name of playing the game, go for it. Otherwise, I'd appreciate you not characterizing my views as being closed minded.
I wasnt necessarily refering to you, but if you feel that it pertained to you, thats not my problem.
TPM posted:I wasnt necessarily refering to you, but if you feel that it pertained to you, thats not my problem.
You are a piece of work, lady (and I use that term loosely). If you are going to call people ignorant and closed minded, at least be adult enough to say who you are talking about instead of being a coward and hiding behind broad generalized statement.
SDR,
I did not, other than now, address you once in this topic. I actually made it a point, as you seem to be antagonistic towards my responses.
I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not, I was trying to explain exactly how Team Israel came about. I think Goosegg, did a fine job of trying to explain, even though he got some pretty sparky answers. Whether that be on purpose or just plain ignorance, I don't know.
TPM posted:SDR,
I did not, other than now, address you once in this topic. I actually made it a point, as you seem to be antagonistic towards my responses.
I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not, I was trying to explain exactly how Team Israel came about. I think Goosegg, did a fine job of trying to explain, even though he got some pretty sparky answers. Whether that be on purpose or just plain ignorance, I don't know.
"Its ok Goosegg, in all of the years I have posted, I have never found more ignorant, close minded individuals than a few that have posted in this topic."
Care to say who you think is ignorant and close minded, or should this entire board just assume that you feel everyone who you disagree with is painted with this brush?
I think you are a cowardly, bully-like person who hides behind her keyboard and her son's accomplishments.
GE. If someone goes through conversion, then they in a way become a Jew, or adherent to Judaism.
Some don't like to equate being Jewish with a religion. Some don't like to equate it with genetics or even a geographical location. Some prefer that it be referred to as something akin to a family. Personally, I would see it as a genetic link to Abraham. *Correction: Abraham, through Isaac.*
But that's just me.
People know who I am, why dont you tell us who you are?
please, nice try...typically bully in a chat room move. I mean, just as a way of making nice, I will ask you a question: Do you ever notice how your responses to people who provide an argument counter to yours are dismissive and disrespectful? I have noticed it ever since I started coming to this website. You probably don't see it, because I think you just don't have that objectiveness. But really, you need to just lighten up on the "everyone is wrong but me and the rest of my old-time buddies" shtick
cabbagedad posted:RJM posted:cabbagedad posted:I think they have the model about as close as they can get to being right in order for the event to have distinct national flavor and pride and still be a competitive tourney. Nothing is perfect but I think it's cool... just wish there was more readily available TV coverage.
I think all the games are on ESPN3 and ESPN Deportes. When I went on the app a few nights ago there was a screen full of WBC logos with game numbers. Tonight at 9pm on Deportes is USA-Venezuela.
Yeah, we just have ESPN, 2 and U
ESPN3 isn't a station. It's part of the ESPN app. It includes everything ESPN broadcasts. You access it through the Watch ESPN app on a phone, tablet or Apple or Android TV connected to a tv. It can also be accessesed at watchespn.com. You can interface a laptop to a tv with an HDMI cable. You access WatchESPN using your cable ID and password.
Goosegg posted:"If you don't speak the language, haven't lived in the country, never visited the country...aren't a citizen...but your grandmother had a Jewish father"
You really didn't understand the requirements to become an automatic Israeli. The hypothetical player you sketched out would not be eligible for automatic citizenship and, therefore, not able to play for team Israel.
(To be correct, the grandmother would have needed a Jewish mother [who would have needed a Jewish mother, etc., etc.], the grandmother's daughter needed to give birth to a daughter, who in turn gave birth to the ball playing son. The lineage test is ONLY through the mothers.)
Ironically, the example you gave would have been good enough for a ticket to the ovens (because those "laws" did not distinguish between male/female ancestry), but actually not good enough to become an Israeli citizen or play for Israel in the WBC.
This is just an opportunity to explain a concept most people don't know - not arguing one way or another.
A person is whatever religion they perceive themselves to be and whatever religion they practice. However, unless a person goes through the actual process of changing their religion anyone born to a Jewish mother is considered Jewish. This is the basis for determining lineage for eligibility.
My son (a confirmed Christian) could have played for Team Israel. While his mother is Christian his father is Jewish. He has a Jewish grandmother. Unless I go through a formal process to change my religion I'm Jewish.
I attended my wife's and kid's church weekly. I was a substitute Sunday school teacher. A couple of parents freaked out when they discovered a Jew was teaching Sunday school. They must have been paranoid and thought I was covertly recruiting (Psst! Hey kid. There hasn't been a second coming.)
Teaching Elder posted:GE. If someone goes through conversion, then they in a way become a Jew, or adherent to Judaism.
Some don't like to equate being Jewish with a religion. Some don't like to equate it with genetics or even a geographical location. Some prefer that it be referred to as something akin to a family. Personally, I would see it as a genetic link to Abraham. *Correction: Abraham, through Isaac.*
But that's just me.
Judaism is a religion. It's not something else. People can't be half Jewish although you hear the term in relation to having one Jewish parent. You either are or you aren't. You can't relate Jews to a particular region unless you go all the way back to Canaan. Jews were dispersed around the world.
Having origins in Canaan is why many Jews tend to have Mediterranean features. But my Baltic Jewish background (Saint Petersburg, Russia and Lithuania) intermarried with Scandinavians created a number of blonds in the family tree. I'm a blond sheep in the family along with several cousins (of a ridiculous number of cousins descending three generations after a family of nine kids).
RJM posted:Teaching Elder posted:GE. If someone goes through conversion, then they in a way become a Jew, or adherent to Judaism.
Some don't like to equate being Jewish with a religion. Some don't like to equate it with genetics or even a geographical location. Some prefer that it be referred to as something akin to a family. Personally, I would see it as a genetic link to Abraham. *Correction: Abraham, through Isaac.*
But that's just me.
Judaism is a religion. It's not something else. People can't be half Jewish although you hear the term in relation to having one Jewish parent. You either are or you aren't. You can't relate Jews to a particular region unless you go all the way back to Canaan. Jews were dispersed around the world.
Having origins in Canaan is why many Jews tend to have Mediterranean features. But my Baltic Jewish background (Saint Petersburg, Russia and Lithuania) intermarried with Scandinavians created a number of blonds in the family tree. I'm a blond sheep in the family along with several cousins (of a ridiculous number of cousins descending three generations after a family of nine kids).
So are you wearing your team Israel jersey to watch the boys from the US play for them?
SanDiegoRealist posted:TPM posted:SDR,
I did not, other than now, address you once in this topic. I actually made it a point, as you seem to be antagonistic towards my responses.
I don't care if anyone agrees with me or not, I was trying to explain exactly how Team Israel came about. I think Goosegg, did a fine job of trying to explain, even though he got some pretty sparky answers. Whether that be on purpose or just plain ignorance, I don't know.
"Its ok Goosegg, in all of the years I have posted, I have never found more ignorant, close minded individuals than a few that have posted in this topic."
Care to say who you think is ignorant and close minded, or should this entire board just assume that you feel everyone who you disagree with is painted with this brush?
I think you are a cowardly, bully-like person who hides behind her keyboard and her son's accomplishments.
SD she is talking to me in this instance but it doesn't matter, tomorrow or the next day she will be talking down to someone else.
I already have an opinion on her it just doesn't need to be shared
OMG could you all stop squabbling! The WBC has defined the rules to play, and this thread was started to congratulate Team Israel, a roster made up of mostly college/minor league/ex MLB Jewish ballplayers who did far far far better than expected. They were the underdogs, and caught the baseball watching world's attention. IT HAS TO BE GOOD! It shows (at least to me):
- on any given Sunday, anyone can win
- the international audience for baseball is alive and well and GROWING
- Don't ever discount Jason Marquis!
- Jerry Weinstein is a good coach
- Jewish players like Ian Kinsler might decide to play for TI going forward (he is not the only Jewish MLB player NOT to play for them)
- Israeli Little League (which does exist) is going to get a BIG bump from this, and many other small countries around the world can be similarly motivated to try to qualify next time around and grow the game in their own backyard
- There are only 4 guys on the roster who are on the 40 man squad for MLB (including HSBW son Bradley Goldberg!)
Let's put aside the arguing of what it takes to become a Jew, how to convert, who is close minded or who is not and just think back to some great epic battle of our own that we played in or our children played in or that we witnessed where some rag tag team of Bad News Bears misfits topple the favored stacked team. It is joyous to see people who love the sport don the uni of Israel and PROVE PEOPLE WRONG!!
Oh, and yeah son #1 actually does have a BRING THE HEAT ISRAELI BASEBALL shirt and has had it for like 2 years now!
WOW
This all started when Cleveland Dad made a nice comment and congratulated Team Israel, and my son. TPM also did the same. Thank you to both. How this thread has moved is very sad. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but why argue? The WBC is what it is. None of of us made up the rules. Can't we all just enjoy the ride to wherever it may take us? Thank you!!⚾����❤️
We interviewed Coach Weinstein on hsbbweb radio a few years back. Here is a link to the interview:
If Tim Tebow could play on Team Israel the circle would be complete. Heads would explode.
Team Israel creates an opportunity for a "movie" with our Goodwill Series players Sam Fuld and Jason Marquis and their Coach Jerry Weinstein.
Jerry and I often discuss coaching strategy and life during his coaching at Sac CC.
Sam played in our 1999 Goodwill Series in Cooperstown against Japan National HS team and Jason played against the Korean National HS in Korea in 1995.
Bob
A documentary is being made by iron bound films.com
called Heading Home
Jonathon Mayo, MLB writer has been following Team Israel for this project. 10 of the players on the roster spent 10 days in Israel on a trip in January.
Agree a movie would be great!!⚾❤️����
RJM posted:...
Actually, I'm a Frisbeetarian. When you die your soul gets stuck on a roof like a frisbee.
LOLz. Thank goodness you are on HSBBW, RJM. That really brightened my day. 
I look forward to seeing the documentary. It would be interesting to see if baseball interest at the youth level is increasing in Israel. I'm guessing it is and if so, we should thank all these players and coaches that went there to represent Israel.
Tangent but related. I understand that Team Israel sends a team of mixed pro and amateur players to the European Championships every summer. This summer they will be playing in the B-Level Championships and they recently requested contacts with Jewish D1 college players in the states.
I talked to an MLB scout I consider a friend who coached for years in Europe. My friend explained to me what B-Level is and that my son would be very competitive. So I asked my son to contact the Israel Association of Baseball. Their response was that he has to be eligible for an Israeli passport to try out so we are looking into that.
I am informed but am not sure that Israel's "Right of Return" Law makes him eligible for that passport, but he would not be eligible under maternal relationship as I am Jewish and my wife isn't. Heck, I'm a lawyer and I find all these rules a bit confusing, but it sure is fun to investigate and I would love to see my boy play in Serbia this summer after his collegiate summer season.
PGStaff posted:I look forward to seeing the documentary. It would be interesting to see if baseball interest at the youth level is increasing in Israel. I'm guessing it is and if so, we should thank all these players and coaches that went there to represent Israel.
I hope that the documentary includes the first group of organizers who had the vision 4 years ago, which would include Brad Ausmus and Shawn Green.
tres_arboles posted:Tangent but related. I understand that Team Israel sends a team of mixed pro and amateur players to the European Championships every summer. This summer they will be playing in the B-Level Championships and they recently requested contacts with Jewish D1 college players in the states.
I talked to an MLB scout I consider a friend who coached for years in Europe. My friend explained to me what B-Level is and that my son would be very competitive. So I asked my son to contact the Israel Association of Baseball. Their response was that he has to be eligible for an Israeli passport to try out so we are looking into that.
I am informed but am not sure that Israel's "Right of Return" Law makes him eligible for that passport, but he would not be eligible under maternal relationship as I am Jewish and my wife isn't. Heck, I'm a lawyer and I find all these rules a bit confusing, but it sure is fun to investigate and I would love to see my boy play in Serbia this summer after his collegiate summer season.
Great that you are looking into it. I converted 20 years ago but to Israelis I'm not Jewish because my conversion was not orthodox. My wife is Jewish so, in their eyes, my children are. I don't sweat it...I know I'm Jewish 
If baseball doesnt work, your son is eligible for Taglit Birthright, you can find info online. The trip is all expense paid, but I do believe up to 26 or 27.
tres_arboles posted:Tangent but related. I understand that Team Israel sends a team of mixed pro and amateur players to the European Championships every summer. This summer they will be playing in the B-Level Championships and they recently requested contacts with Jewish D1 college players in the states.
I talked to an MLB scout I consider a friend who coached for years in Europe. My friend explained to me what B-Level is and that my son would be very competitive. So I asked my son to contact the Israel Association of Baseball. Their response was that he has to be eligible for an Israeli passport to try out so we are looking into that.
I am informed but am not sure that Israel's "Right of Return" Law makes him eligible for that passport, but he would not be eligible under maternal relationship as I am Jewish and my wife isn't. Heck, I'm a lawyer and I find all these rules a bit confusing, but it sure is fun to investigate and I would love to see my boy play in Serbia this summer after his collegiate summer season.
A Jewish lawyer! My mother would like to adopt you.
I visited Israel with my S when he was in ninth grade (a bit over a decade ago). At that time, there was a single field - little league dimensions - in the entire country. The field had been built at Kibbutz Gezer (between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem) which was founded by Americans. We drove there just to play catch; and there were some kibbutz kids playing catch when we arrived and we threw with them for awhile.
Fast forward eight years, and I am attending a game at UCSD and talking to a UCSD pitcher charting the game. Turns out he (Alon Lichtmann) was one of the kids playing catch that day - one of the few Sabra's (a native born Israeli) - to be recruited to play at a US school. Well, that kid's dad was the one who convinced the kibbutz to build the field just to keep touch with what had been his favorite sport in America. Alon just returned from Korea, he is employed by the Mariners in a very unique role: he searches the world for good ideas to develop players.
Israel now has a few fields; but most of the time kids play on soccer fields as the sport awaits consumer interest. Over the years, interest has been growing and, knowing Israelis as I do, team Israel's success will go a long way to raise baseball's profile there.
While there is a good number of Israelis with deep US ties, I question whether the passivity of a baseball game will pique the interest of the overall community. Israelis are nuts for soccer and basketball. (Although, I know a fomer Yale player who is there to develop interest and teach kids baseball.
It's all good - better to compete on a playing field than a battlefield.
Resurrecting this thread...Israel's run in the WBC literally changed my son's life. He's a '22 catcher, and he's also a Jew. My wife was raised in a conservative household and despite the fact that I was raised Catholic, we agreed to raise our kids in the Jewish faith. It's been a hard sell for my son, probably in some part because he knows his Dad isn't a Jew (I do fake it really, really well).
Then came the WBC. We watched all nine innings of Korea/Israel like it was Game 7. The players on Team Israel were mostly unknown to him, so we watched and I Googled and told him the stories of each of the players.
The one that stuck out to him was, naturally, Ryan Lavarnway. Had a very good WBC, plays catcher, and - crucially - grew up in a mixed household, like most of the American players on Team Israel. Also went to Yale, which he's tired of hearing about from me.
The week after Israel was eliminated, he asked if we would get him a Team Israel hat, which he now proudly wears around town. It's the first time he's ever worn a Star of David, and he does it with pride. He's also asked whether we can go to Israel sometime before he leaves for college.
And the moral of the story is.....with baseball, all things are possible. :-)
From someone whose son played on the inaugural team in 2013, I enjoyed your post.
You might want to find out where your son can play Macabbi baseball, son played for 2 teams in baseball in middle school, and also find out about Taglit Birthright.
TPM, that's great advice, I'll look into it. Thanks
OskiSD posted:TPM, that's great advice, I'll look into it. Thanks
Call your local JCC. Actually son played Macabbi for 3 years (seems like a lifetime ago). First year in Houston, then Atlanta and our JCC in Boca Raton hosted one year. We housed 2 players, they had a blast. The 4th year after tryouts, he made the baseball team to go to Israel but the US macabbi baseball delegation pulled out due to the conflict with Palestine that year.
The games are held like Olympics. It was a great experience, for both boys and girl from delegations all across the US. My son still has all the pins traded. So sorry he missed the international games.
Your son would love it. Be proud of his effort to identify with other jewish players. It's very special.
TPM, completely agree it's wonderful when kids find those connections between different parts of themselves. Thanks for sharing your son's experience, and for your advice.
Here's how into this we are: During the off-season we got started by picking - no joke - the Best Jew in Baseball for every year of MLB history. I wanted to demonstrate to him that there were a hell of a lot more players than Koufax and Greenberg (Al Rosen, Sid Gordon, Youk, etc). One of those projects that was a lot more fun to do than it sounds :-). If anyone's interested, the player with the most individual seasons of being the BJIB (in our non-expert opinion) is.....Kenny Holtzman, believe it or not. The 70s were not exactly a golden age for Jewish baseball.