Congratulations to Team Israel

Let's all raise our glasses of Manischewitz and gag, err toast. 

And in Korea, no less.

And in Korea, no less.

I would say they spoiled a lot of Korean fans kimchi.  But if you've tried kimchi, you know my first sentence isn't possible.

Mazel, mazel...good things!

I'm rooting for that group. I really enjoy Cody Decker. Unfortunately, yesterday's game was past my bedtime. However, I am informed that their game with Taipei is before midnight tonight so woohoo!

Just watch the replay from ESPN3.com. It's free if you have Comcast cable, and you can skip all the commercials and pitcher warmups and mound meetings  

Bogeyorpar posted:

Just watch the replay from ESPN3.com. It's free if you have Comcast cable, and you can skip all the commercials and pitcher warmups and mound meetings  

ESPN3 is free with any cable subscription that includes ESPN. The great thing about ESPN3 is they show every game they broadcast rather than just the one you get in your region on ESPN or ESPN2. Plus replays of everything are available.

RJM posted:

Bogeyorpar posted:

Just watch the replay from ESPN3.com. It's free if you have Comcast cable, and you can skip all the commercials and pitcher warmups and mound meetings  

ESPN3 is free with any cable subscription that includes ESPN. The great thing about ESPN3 is they show every game they broadcast rather than just the one you get in your region on ESPN or ESPN2. Plus replays of everything are available.

Only problem: ESPN3 only has the Spanish version. So I was watching the game between China and Japan and listening to a Spanish commentator. Whenever there's a homerun, the commentator makes a long exhilaration, sounds very much like "Gooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllll!" 

The only thing that I don't like about the WBC, I suppose is necessary in order to have some balance and make it more competitive.

Seems like in order to represent a country, you should have lived there at some point or at least stepped foot on the ground there.

Still a lot of fun watching the competition.

PGStaff posted:

The only thing that I don't like about the WBC, I suppose is necessary in order to have some balance and make it more competitive.

Seems like in order to represent a country, you should have lived there at some point or at least stepped foot on the ground there.

Still a lot of fun watching the competition.

True, but there are only so many spots on the US team and there are a lot of worthy players nonetheless.  Israel really doesn't support baseball like we do here in the states so I am OK with them fielding US players who have an ancestral link to their homeland. 

On a personal note, Brad Goldberg of the White Sox is on team Israel.  He played with my son at Coastal and is from the Cleveland area.  I know his mother Marla well and she is a member here.  Congrats to the Goldberg family!

OK, now that I have checked out the roster for Israel, I've changed my mind.

The players on Israel's roster have attended 127 Perfect Game events when they were younger. I love it!

FYI, one does not have to be jewish or a practicing jew to participate. Its either by marriage or ancestry to make the team, not necessarily by birth.

Team Israel concept was created many years ago by a group of jewish MLB owners, attorneys and agents to help promote the game in Israel. Israels first qualifer  was in 2011 in Jupiter FL. I dont know about other team rules, but one does have to prove their connection to judaism.

I attended the qualifier in Brooklyn in September to hook up with Brads family. He did not attend the qualifier as he just recently made the 40 man roster, and decided to attend his first MLB spring training. He was called upon by Team Israel to join them in Japan, an opportunity of a lifetime. Not bad for a 5th year senior sign graduating from Ohio State!

No one expected Team Israel to get past Korea, or beat Cuba. Although they took a beating the other night, we all know that G-D works in mysterious ways. 

#gotribe

TPM posted:

FYI, one does not have to be jewish or a practicing jew to participate. Its either by marriage or ancestry to make the team, not necessarily by birth.

Team Israel concept was created many years ago by a group of jewish MLB owners, attorneys and agents to help promote the game in Israel. Israels first qualifer  was in 2011 in Jupiter FL. I dont know about other team rules, but one does have to prove their connection to judaism.

I attended the qualifier in Brooklyn in September to hook up with Brads family. He did not attend the qualifier as he just recently made the 40 man roster, and decided to attend his first MLB spring training. He was called upon by Team Israel to join them in Japan, an opportunity of a lifetime. Not bad for a 5th year senior sign graduating from Ohio State!

No one expected Team Israel to get past Korea, or beat Cuba. Although they took a beating the other night, we all know that G-D works in mysterious ways. 

#gotribe

 

 

I would like the definition of "to prove their connection to Judaism" at best I am willing to bet it is vague...most likely requirements is to be good ball player who has a jewish name and somewhere had a relative who said they were Jewish!!

I know a guy on the Italian team, happy for him, great guy. His ancestry is certainly from Italy but I think the closest he has ever gotten is plate full of pasta!!

old_school posted:

TPM posted:

FYI, one does not have to be jewish or a practicing jew to participate. Its either by marriage or ancestry to make the team, not necessarily by birth.

Team Israel concept was created many years ago by a group of jewish MLB owners, attorneys and agents to help promote the game in Israel. Israels first qualifer  was in 2011 in Jupiter FL. I dont know about other team rules, but one does have to prove their connection to judaism.

I attended the qualifier in Brooklyn in September to hook up with Brads family. He did not attend the qualifier as he just recently made the 40 man roster, and decided to attend his first MLB spring training. He was called upon by Team Israel to join them in Japan, an opportunity of a lifetime. Not bad for a 5th year senior sign graduating from Ohio State!

No one expected Team Israel to get past Korea, or beat Cuba. Although they took a beating the other night, we all know that G-D works in mysterious ways. 

#gotribe

 

 

I would like the definition of "to prove their connection to Judaism" at best I am willing to bet it is vague...most likely requirements is to be good ball player who has a jewish name and somewhere had a relative who said they were Jewish!!

I know a guy on the Italian team, happy for him, great guy. His ancestry is certainly from Italy but I think the closest he has ever gotten is plate full of pasta!!

So you think I made this up? In 2011 we had to send our ketubah (look that up if you don't know what that is) to representatives to prove that our ballplayer was jewish, to be accepted for the first inaugural Israeli team to play in the WBC.

And yes, you have to be a good ball player.

LOL no certainly don't think anything was made up, I just think the term proof is a reach. there are very limited amount of candidates for some of the countries...the laws of supply and demand are universal in my experience.

You said my term proof was a reach. I stated what I know from experience, I didn't have to give anyou proof as I had no reason to lie or make anythingood up.

I also stated that I did not know how other countries did it. Might be something that you could look into and give us the results, instead of putting doubt and skepticism into how Team Israel conducted their business to find players.

Keep in mind many of Team Israel are not current MLB players, or were they ever or will they be.  Not bad for what many called a bunch of scrubs, would you not agree?

I thought that to be eligible to play for a country, a player needed to be eligible for immediate citizenship.

Under Israeli law, all Jews are eligible for immediate citizenship.  

To he considered Jewish, a player needs to trace his lineage through the matriarch (a child born to a Jewish father and non-Jewish mother is not Jewish [unless the mother converted in a very specific manner {at least under Israeli religious law}]; a child born to a non-Jewish father and Jewish mother is automatically Jewish). (Name, baseball skills, location have nothing to do with it.)

Additionally, a player himself who is not born Jewish, can convert through a very strict process. Israeli religious law differs from, let's say, American Reform Jewish laws, in that Israeli conversion law follows strict Orthodox procedures, while American Jews have a whole menu of procedures to choose - some less "strict" than others. American conversions are NOT recognized in Israel, unless done through the Orthodox method.

Now, during its history, Israel has absorbed immigrants from many countries (e.g., Soviet Union, Ethiopia) where records of the ancestral line were missing or not reliable. At various times, other methods of proof were accepted (e.g., an entire community knowing Jewish law and following Jewish customs was sufficient (immigrants from Africa) - but only following much public comment, uproar, and argument.) This has lead to some controversy as immigrants fleeing oppression in some areas insisted they were actually Jews in order to settle (there was one example about 50 years ago where a group of African-Americans from Chicago insisted they were Jewish and refused to leave Israel; after years of battles, that group was allowed to settle as Jews.)

FWIW, in any given year there are about 60 - 100 professional Jewish players scattered through the landscape of affiliated ball.

I think watching the WBC and team Italy, Israel  and others show how close an AA, AAA player is skill wise to an MLB'er and how little separates them.  The "not so good and didn't make it" players are still very good baseball players.  Consistency, mental strength and just a little bit more skill is all that separates them.

Goosegg,

Thanks for the longer version. I am not sure about being eligible for immediate citizenship, but that makes sense. And to be a citizen of Israel has its stipulations.

My initial response was to a statement made about players not from the country that they are representing. I sure there is some type of vetting players for all teams, there has to be to make up team rosters.

Having a jewish, italian, whatever last name doesnt necessarily qualify an individual to play, or does eating a bowl of pasta.

ClevelandDad posted:

PGStaff posted:

The only thing that I don't like about the WBC, I suppose is necessary in order to have some balance and make it more competitive.

Seems like in order to represent a country, you should have lived there at some point or at least stepped foot on the ground there.

Still a lot of fun watching the competition.

True, but there are only so many spots on the US team and there are a lot of worthy players nonetheless.  Israel really doesn't support baseball like we do here in the states so I am OK with them fielding US players who have an ancestral link to their homeland. 

On a personal note, Brad Goldberg of the White Sox is on team Israel.  He played with my son at Coastal and is from the Cleveland area.  I know his mother Marla well and she is a member here.  Congrats to the Goldberg family!

Thanks Dan!!

TPM posted:

 

...

#gotribe

 

 

I'd say if you weren't born there or didn't at least live there for 1 year, you shouldn't represent that country.  Who knows if players might feel pressured to play on their homeland's teams due to their heritage.  

I wouldn't interchange the terms "pressure" with "honor."

Only speaking to team Israel, there is a long line of players wanting to pick up the flag and colors of a team whose lineage can be traced from the blood of their matriarchs directly to the ovens. In other words, there was only a single requirement back then: lineage; not residence. Find a Jewish baseball player; ask if he would like to play for team Israel. There is no pressure there - only honor.

Take the following example: Israeli mom is an oncologist and Israeli dad a HS grad who served years as an officer in an elite combat unit. After his service, mom came to teach at UCLA and dad opened a falafel shop. Over time, they applied for and became US citizens. Baby Samuel was born in American and they never returned to Israel (in part because dad would have needed to serve time in the reserves and because Sam - once he graduated HS - was required to serve) and Sam just wanted to go to college to play baseball and follow in mom's footsteps. Sam is an Israeli citizen (and an American). Why can't he play for Israel?

Also, and finally, the WBC is a marketing tool; its purpose is to spread love of the game everywhere. The more decent players available, the more world-wide excitement.

My son Brad Goldberg who played in WBC played in many Perfect game showcases when he was a teenager. 

Too many really good issues to argue about (weighted balls, ice, running all come to mind) to get bogged down with this.  I am sure there is a rule book that includes eligibility and I am pretty sure all teams abide by the rules.  If you want, lets argue olympic eligibility rules or international signing versus draft rules.  

Or my new favorite, what constitutes "cheating" (and what does not) when it comes to pop times.

WBC has strict rules that come directly from the MLB. Proof must be sent to country you are playing for and MLB must approve it first, then participating country. 

Olympic participants who dont make the US team qualify under other countries, so lets get over that you should be a citizen or live there for at least a year.

Watching Team Italy the other night, sons former teammate Dan Descalso was on team and he wasnt born in Italy. So were probably most of the other participants of teams other than those where baseball rules.

2017LHPscrewball posted:

Too many really good issues to argue about (weighted balls, ice, running all come to mind) to get bogged down with this.  I am sure there is a rule book that includes eligibility and I am pretty sure all teams abide by the rules.  If you want, lets argue olympic eligibility rules or international signing versus draft rules.  

Or my new favorite, what constitutes "cheating" (and what does not) when it comes to pop times.

Gee, if you dont like the discussion dont participate. 

The rules for participants can be found on google.

The first is that a player is citizen of the nation or qualifies for citizenship. Qualifying for Israeli citizenship a bit different, as one has to prove ties to jewish heritage, as stated by Goosegg.  

Team Israel has been eliminated by Japan. Either way, I am sure that it has been an amazing experience for all.

So I guess that we can move on now....

Last I checked this wasn't the Olympics. I agree though, why call it "World Baseball Classic" if a bunch of Americans are playing for other countries? I know it's within the rules, but good grief it is just stupid. If Israel (or any team) has a bunch of homegrown talent, then they should be lauded. If they don't, then they can't compete. I know it's a great accomplishment for ANY player to play at this level, but let's call it what it is. 

I think they have the model about as close as they can get to being right in order for the event to have distinct national flavor and pride and still be a competitive tourney.  Nothing is perfect but I think it's cool... just wish there was more readily available TV coverage.

Even when Israel had a baseball league a majority of the players were from the US.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...rael_Baseball_League

cabbagedad posted:

I think they have the model about as close as they can get to being right in order for the event to have distinct national flavor and pride and still be a competitive tourney.  Nothing is perfect but I think it's cool... just wish there was more readily available TV coverage.

I think all the games are on ESPN3 and ESPN Deportes. When I went on the app a few nights ago there was a screen full of WBC logos with game numbers. Tonight at 9pm on Deportes is USA-Venezuela.

That was what I was thinking too.  But after thinking about it, maybe it is a good thing.  Teams like Israel simply don't have enough home grown players with the ability to compete at that level.  Other teams from PR, DR, Cuba, Japan, Korea, Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, etc., where baseball is popular can easily field a great team.  By allowing professional players to represent Israel, Italy and other countries, it creates a lot of interest in the game of baseball.  Seems like that will help grow the game, which is a good thing.  Maybe it will give young kids from places like Italy and Israel an interest in playing baseball. Make baseball more popular in other parts of the world, I like that idea!

TPM posted:

FYI, one does not have to be jewish or a practicing jew to participate. Its either by marriage or ancestry to make the team, not necessarily by birth.

Team Israel concept was created many years ago by a group of jewish MLB owners, attorneys and agents to help promote the game in Israel. Israels first qualifer  was in 2011 in Jupiter FL. I dont know about other team rules, but one does have to prove their connection to judaism.

I attended the qualifier in Brooklyn in September to hook up with Brads family. He did not attend the qualifier as he just recently made the 40 man roster, and decided to attend his first MLB spring training. He was called upon by Team Israel to join them in Japan, an opportunity of a lifetime. Not bad for a 5th year senior sign graduating from Ohio State!

No one expected Team Israel to get past Korea, or beat Cuba. Although they took a beating the other night, we all know that G-D works in mysterious ways. 

#gotribe

 

 

What is Judaism?  I know what I think it is.  How do you define it?

That's a very vague and philosophical question.

But for purposes of a person born outside of Israel, Israeli citizenship has no requirement that a person believe in God, the Old Testament, Purim, dietary rules, old myths, speak or read Hebrew, have any philosophy on religion, or even understand Israeli law (unlike the US citizenship test which has constitutional questions). The test is solely based upon either the matriarchal history or an Orthodox conversion.

In short, there is NO BELIEF component for those born to a Jewish mother. Conversions are a different animal - I understand that to become a member of the tribe, newcomers must satisfy the Orthodox branch of Judaism which does have a serious belief component.

There's no requirement to live in Israel to be Jewish.

There is no requirement to be jewish to live in Israel.

There is no requirement that to serve in the Israeli military a person be either Jewish or even a citizen. (Though I believe only Israeli Jews are subject to compulsory service, while for those of other religions, it's voluntary. For Jews born outside of Israel, who declare citizenship, however, military service is compulsory (subject to some limitations for specialized skills and age).

I am not really familiar on the citizenship path for a non-Jewish immigrant.

I'm amused at the direction of the thread. Any volunteers to convert? Remember ...

Roses are red,

Violets are blue-ish. 

If not for Jesus,

We would all be Jewish.

Actually, I'm a Frisbeetarian. When you die your soul gets stuck on a roof like a frisbee.