Cooperstown Playing time

I'm not sure why you care about several years ago. The expectation should have been the same playing pattern that existed all season. Or whatever was stated as the objective.

 It happens everywhere across the US you are not the 1st team where players didnt play because of daddy/coach baseball... starts at T-Ball and up...

Yeah my son got his 2 innings in right field and one at bat..  But...We had a player who was on field never got off the whole game(s) even if he didnt make a play

or hit the ball.... guess who was his coach.?

Hope HS ball has been better for you and your son...hope he is still playing dont give up... it will work out..

 

jlaro,

Thanks for your reply, yes my son got over it and became a better ball player than the coaches son's. He's a 2015 and is going to play on in college, we are doing the college visit tour now. Rjm, the playing pattern all year was to rotate most the kids, even the coaches kids sat periodically during the season, I guess I just thought this was a different circumstance . While it happened 5 yrs ago, I was more or less curious if it happens every year?? Thanks for your imput, I enjoy reading your posts on the different forums.

 

My opinion... if you go there for the "experience", then everyone should play.  If you go there to win, then you play your best.  I saw both types of teams during the years that my son played there.

 

 

 

 

Perfect explanation!.

viking - I think you raise something interesting.

 

I coached a team in Cooperstown.  Similar scenario - kids had been together (more or less) for 3 years.  Parents and kids mostly from an affluent area.

We decided we wanted to play everyone about the same while still trying to win some games at least...and we did fairly well.  But some parents did begin counting innings.  And while there wasn't an issue of my kid/coaches' kids playing more, they did count things like innings at DH vs. in the field.

 

A couple of them approached me, they were reasonable in their approach. I listened and tried to adjust as best as we could.

 

The difficulty was that more kids were good outfielders than infielders.  So sticking a few kids in the infield was gonna cause problems and not just winning problems, kind of embarrassing problems for the kids themselves in fielding ground balls well for one.  The DH was, in effect, a way to get a 4th outfielder in the game at any time and I might be mis-remebering but I think at that time in Cooperstown you couldn't rotate your your DH into the field and swap an OFer to the DH which many tournaments allowed.

 

Anyways - I don't think what you asked, as you described it, was out of line.  You spent your money and your kid, unless on a team designed to win at all costs, deserved to play his fair share IMO.

Thanks Justbaseball, my son actually played quite a bit,but some kids on the team hardly played. My whole thing was this team wasnt put togather to win at all costs, it was the same that played togather for a couple years and playing time really wasnt an issue.Then we get out to Cooperstown and the scenario changes. Yes we won a few games which was nice but it was quite apparent that we were not going to beat a couple of these teams that were loaded. Im just glad my son continued to enjoy the game and is now going thru the recruiting process for college.

My son played on 3 different travel teams from 8U to 13U and then on 1 college showcase team from 14U to 18U.  During his travel ball years, the teams had a head coach who played college ball and had a son on the team.  There were 3 or 4 other dads who were assistant coaches that also had sons on the team. The coaches sons got special focus and attention, but that is why these guys volunteered to coach the team. Their focus was on getting their own sons better and they filled in the other positions with the best players they could get.  The other players came and went, but the core of coaches sons stayed together on the same team.

 

When my son turned 14, he tried out and made a college showcase team.  In the better organizations, they are coached by former professional and college players who do not have a son on the team. They are run more like a college or pro team. At college showcases, everyone got an equal amount of playing time to showcase their abilities. Sometimes college recruiters would ask the coach to play a kid in a certain position so they could fully evaluate him.  At competitive tournaments (e.g., PG WWBA), the best 9 started every game.  Other players got playing time when the game was pretty much decided.  Also, at 16 years old, players had to decide whether the were a position player or a pitcher. Some position players pitched, but only in reliever or closer roles.

 

My recommendation is to find a travel team where your son gets as much playing time as he can to improve his skills. I have witnessed a lot of kids who want to get on the team that wins all of the trophies, but they either don't get playing time or they aren't getting the instruction they need to get better. The most important thing is that your son is a better player at the end of a season than he was when it started. One other thing, the most improvement in a players abilities takes place during the week when they work on their running, hitting, fielding throwing, etc. skills.  Games simply let them use those skills.

 

I agree with NYdad2017.  Expectations should have been set prior to Cooperstown if they were going to be different from the regular season.  The Coaches reply was ridiculous in my honest opinion. 

 

I coached a team that went there in 2007 and did pretty well.  Our goal was to win AND play everyone which only required some planning on the Coaching staff.  Just about everyone of my kids pitched, so there was a lot of planning and adjustment as we went to rest arms and keep bodies fresh.  But seriously, it really isn't that hard to put a game plan together over the course of a week to make sure everybody gets their innings in and at bats.  This isn't rocket science, and it sounds like the Coach was a real turkey.  That would have been my last event with that particular coach.

It's been 9 years since my son experienced Cooperstown Dreams Park.  How time has flown by.

 

Anyway, I remember being approached by one of the Mom's who was keeping track of who played what position and how many innings each had played. This was partway through pool play -  I think we were getting ready to play the 3rd game.  Since my son had been rotating with the other catcher his playing time was down, but he did play other positions.  We only had 12 players so for the most part everyone was (IMHO) getting a reasonable amount of innings and at-bats.  However, she had noticed the coach's sons and a few select others had not sat the bench as much as the other boys. Wondered if I would support her when she talked to the coach.  I basically told her I didn't see a problem and while I would've liked to see my son play more, I didn't think it was worth approaching the coach about.

 

To his credit, he did hear her out, but he explained he wasn't doing it on purpose and it was just how things were working out due to the positions each player was playing. 

 

Anyway, the boys lost the 3rd game and were now 0-3.  Some parents were grumbling, but not all of us.  While the team left the field to go back to the barracks, I left the Dreams Park to get lunch back at the house we had rented.  Came back for the 4th game and one of the parents asked me if I heard what had happened.  Turned out one of the other parents had a big blow up with the coach due to his son (who had played every inning up to that point) playing 3rd and not SS (he was also one of the pitchers).  Promptly took his son and his gear and left (he eventually headed home a few days later). 

 

Funny thing is the team won the next game.  Also won one more game before eliminations started.  In eliminations, we won in the 1st round, but lost in the next round. 

 

The only other odd thing was a team from the NW had a kid who was throwing 80 mph.  He was from the Dominican Republic and did not look 12 years old - more like 16 (had facial hair more like a man than any 12 year old "boy").   Anyway, by the 5th game he couldn't pitch any more (coach had him starting on the mound in every game up to that point).  When asked the officials said the documents showed he was 12.  (Yeah, right.)  We faced them in pool play and kept them to only a 2 run lead through 5 innings - then they adjusted to our junk ball pitcher.  I give our boys credit, they never backed out of the batters box.

 

Overall, it was a good experience for the team.  Funny how some got caught up in everything like it was MLB.

Exact same thing happened to us going to Cooperstown. Myself and another mom planned it,did all the work for it, it was for FUN. Got there and things began to change.My son and a couple others started sitting, in lieu of older players playing.

 

It was a very expensive trip and ended a long time friendship because of how we were treated and how my son was treated. It was a tough week.

 

Funny as all of their stars didn't even barely play in HS, let alone college.

 

It should not change once you are there. We presented it to parents as a fun

 

experience.

 

The husband of the mom I planned with decided not to be head coach and passed it on after we had paid to go.

 

The coach later tried to explain it to my husband saying " some kids at Cooperstoen never touched the field"  My husband said that's not the issue. You lied to the parents and the players.Your son didn't sit an inning and others sat a lot. You don't change things in the middle.

 

If your going to win then so be it, but if its a group of local kids from a few different little leagues then stay with the plan.

 

It made a lot of people very uncomfortable. You spend 5000 plus for an experience and it just isn't right to change once your there

Cooperstown is the biggest farce out there.  Don't get me wrong, it should be a great time for the kids and the parents.  But face it.  With the number of teams playing, your odds of advancing all that far are small. Most teams won't make the top 12, let alone the final four.  You have to know your team's limitations.  Thus, imo, it should be about fun and playing the best that you can as a team.  At 12, every kids does things to win games and to loose games (even the "superstars").   

Golfman....I was an assistant coach on my son's 12U team when we went to Cooperstown.  I dreaded the thought of it for a year leading up to going.  After spending the week there...being seeded #33 and winning our first bracket game, I wouldn't trade the experience for anything.  My son (17U) and I are actually planning on taking a team there when he's finished with college.  As has been mentioned here several times, coaches need to be upfront with their plans.  Fortunately for us, our HC had been there before with his oldest son...so he knew exactly what to expect....and made EVERYTHING clear to our players and parents before the season started...and before he took any money towards the trip.  As with ANY issues with ANY team, it all comes down to the coach being UPFRONT and HONEST with everybody.  Ask questions....from the coach...and especially the players who may have played for that coach the year before. 

Agree with you 100% Golfman

As an assistant coach as well years ago was like a prison camp to me.

Lot of long winded meetings doing laundry and such

Same prison uniforms.

Hot as crap in the bunker

Bad baseball. We placed 14th. Beat a lot of bad teams

.

 

 

The rest of the trip for us was awesome. We got to see the World Trade cente, Statue of Liberty and lots of historic sites. Came back three weeks before 911.We spent two weeks more doing historical stuff, seeing broad way, baseball games etc.

 

 

Just to be clear, I'm not knocking the Cooperstown event.  My kid enjoyed his time there.  We had lots of rain, so that sucked.  I love the town -- would spend a summer there if I didn't need a job.  If you have the opportunity to go, take it.  Just the reality is, with the number of teams involved, you're likelihood of significantly advancing is small.  So sitting some kid on the bench because he is not "good enough" is not cool imo. 

 

If you want to bring a team of ringers and win it all, then recruit a bunch and go.  Oops, that's a different thread. 

Ok Golfman I agree
I won't bash Cooperstown Dreams Park
They own that town
Better be careful what you say

From what I remember some of the townspeople didn't care for the "Park".  At least that's what I heard.  I found that odd - maybe because the Park is outside the town limits.  I'm sure it helps bring more business to the area.

 

Except for the one incident, the boys, parents and coaches enjoyed the trip.  Wish they had done better in the tournament though - I think they finished 54th out of 80 teams.

 

I agree with Every Day Dad - the barracks were hot (no AC) and it was hot the week we were there (in the 90's - the week before barely broke 70).  I didn't care for the uniforms - thought it would have been better for each team to wear their own uniforms.  The biggest thing for the boys was trading pins.

 

The following year my son's team went to Sports at the Beach in Delaware.   It was okay - no better or worse than Cooperstown. Far less teams in the week long tournament - about 20 (vs the 80 in Cooperstown),  At least my wife and I could enjoy the beach in the evenings - otherwise we were watching the team play.

Head Coaches have it worst, being pulled in 12 different directions  I was absolutely exhausted after Cooperstown after a week at CDP.   However, I don't regret a single minute.  This wasn't about me, this was about a wonderful 12 year old kid (and his teammates) who wanted to play baseball in a one of a kind place.  He's still got all his Cooperstown pictures and memorobelia in his bedroom at home.   I'd give many thousands of dollars to relive that experience again with him.

When we took our local travel team (basically our local little league district team) we had been together for three years. The head coca the assistant coach and myself basically turn pec the team over to three dads To coach the team. our three families got a like house together, it was a kind of reward to our families for the three years of running the team. It also worked out well fir the three dads, their families could not make it up for the week so they got to spend time in the barracks with the kids  

 

it it was a great week, not having to worry about playing time, positions batting order etc....was really cool after the first day we were in 3rd place 2-0 with only 2 runs scored against us. Of course the three of us were taking a good nature ribbing from the three dad coach and the rest if the families about the great start. But we all knew it was luck of draw, second days faced some really good teams....we were just a local township travel team pulling from a population of 20,000. Second days we played a team from Wisconsin that had tryouts from the entire state.

 

we held our own and finish 42 out if 80 teams....every player got equal paying time and anyone that could pitch, did pitch!

 

Great memories!

 

 

Son must have liked it 6 years ago.  He is headed back there as an umpire next Friday. I wonder how he will like staying in the barracks now?!? 

 

Looking back, I think it is tough to try to "vacation" with 12-13 other families without some issues.  There was some teasing in the barracks, rain, parents grumbling when their child wasn't playing when the game was live-streamed, etc.  Several families stayed together in houses.  The best part was a team picnic on the lake with one family generously giving the kids rides in their boat they brought up.

 

We also made a NYC trip for a few days on the way up. Got to see the Yankees play and tour the old stadium their last year there.  Priceless.

my son ranks Cooperstown at the top of the list of his baseball memories - granted he is only 2017 and has some big events coming in his future but he has been to various states and played in most of the big name events.

 

The 12 yr season can be almost magical, it the closest most of these players will ever getting to being a major league player - they can dominate the field physically similar to a full grown college or pro player... they get to room away from the parents, they play a TON OF BASEBALL, they meet players from all over the country and world...I would love to be able to have both of my boys do it all over again!!

I've been both as a coach (3x) and umpire (2x). I agree with the set the expectations speech already discussed, but don't let the play time discussion be your deciding point. For many this is your summer family vacation too. Nothing like visiting the HoF with your son and being in such a setting. As much as it sucks about not having play time - if your child had a great time does it matter that much?  For a large majority of kids each week - it's more about staying up late, hanging with your friends, trading pins, being away from dad/mom (except for coaches sons!), etc.  The last time I went as a coach - I sat on a bucket just outside the dugout and *listened* to all the sounds going on around and thought it was really cool that I got to share this experience with my sons. All 3 of my boys have said it was the best time they had playing baseball (each had varying play time) - one child even played in the AAU nationals 2 years after in Sarasota, but still said CDP was better.

 

BTW: As an umpire - the dorms suck even more especially when you get stuck in one with a guy that snores so loudly the room shakes.  Ear plugs didn't work.  But you also get to obtain and share a lot of great stories and/or knowledge about how to officiate the game. Learning 3-man/4-man on a small diamond where you can make and recover from a mistake will help you greatly when it comes to the larger diamond. You also learn how *important* it is to the family that runs CDP to keep the experience in check with respect to it being all about the players.

 

BTW: I like the fact everyone has the same uniform *and* that the socks have to be shown (eg, knee length pants).  Yes, some teams can afford 7 different uniforms, but so what - that's not what baseball is all about.

Went 4X over 4 years with 2 kids.  Did both the family and just my son and I.  Stayed in the Dorm 3 of the 4 trips.

 

The first trip with both kids was magical for them at 10U.  By the time the 2nd one went through in 2008 the place was pushing 10 years old and the warts were starting to show on the facilities but the experience totally masked it over for the kids and a large percentage of the adults involved.

 

If they haven't upgraded anything there in the last 5/6years then it might have seriously degraded from a facility point of view.  As near as I can tell from talking to people with kids going there now, the primary reason to go still holds though.  You have to hand it to those folks, they really caught lightening in a bottle with that idea.

 coaches kid plays all the time??? It would be news if he did not