D1 Talent playing D3 because of a Coaching Fit?

If his goal is to be drafted and has multiple D1 offers he shouldn't be playing D3. The exception would be if this is one of the premiere D3 programs with solid connections to the right collegiate summer ball programs.

93+ is 93+ regardless of where it's thrown. Most D3 draftees are pitchers. If a kid is a position player his college coach better get him in the right collegiate summer program where he can prove himself against top pitching talent. 

He needs to get out of his comfort zone with the coaching given it's D3 versus D1. Pick the D1 program that showed him the most love if it's also an academic, social and cultural fit. 

Agree with RJM.     Very unusual.   Extremely  Tough to get a pro shot out of D III as a position player.    Also. Be careful choosing. A school because you like the hitting coach, most assistant coaches want to be head coaches and that means climbing the ladder by moving on when a better opportunity presents itself.   

I concur w/ RJM , D3 ball isn't a good place for a hitter interested in the draft. Even if his stats are great at that level, the pitching isn't like D1 pitching and scouts don't put a lot of stock in D3 hitting stats.

And yes, a mound is a mound , 60ft 6 inch, and 93+ is the same on a D3 mound or a D1 mound . So, D3 Pitchers still get looks.

Don't get me wrong. I'm a fan of D3 ball. It's just not the right choice IMO for a hitter looking to play pro ball

Do NOT go to a college for the coaching staff.   (I bet the player can still get lessons from this hitting coach in the off season).  If he loves the school without baseball, ok.  Remember, a player can get hurt at any time.

Check out various sites so see exactly how many 2Bs were drafted last year, and where they were drafted from.  (I'll help you.....not many.  Check MLB Draft Tracker for 2016 or thebaseballcube.com).

(My son plays 2B at a D1 where the head coach left right after son signed the NLI November his senior year.  He was a SS in HS, like most 2Bs in college).

There are a few reasons to pick a D3 school over a D1 school but the hitting coach or any coach is not one of those reasons IMHO.  Hitting coaches are looking for the next opportunity to move up the coaching ladder and most will pack up and leave for that opportunity at the drop of a baseball cap.   College baseball coaches move around a lot at all levels.   I think your son's goal is a fairly common one if you hang out at HSBBWeb for any length of time and I hope he makes it to MILB or MLB, however I  think he needs to re-think his reasons and path to get to professional baseball.   

keewart is giving you a great example and experience.  There is little doubt in my mind keewart's son will be drafted high, and it is because of his skill, hard work, exposure, performance, competition with like skilled players,, summer opportunities, and D1 investment in coaching and facilities. It would have been very difficult to match that at the D3 level.

Good luck!

3and2Fastball posted:

My nephew is being recruited by several D1 schools but is very seriously considering going to a D3 school because he feels like he has a lot of faith in the coaching staff.  In particular he loves the hitting coach, who he has taken a bunch of lessons from and he feels as though his longterm (and long shot) shot at MiLB is best served by working day in and day out with this coaching staff and especially the hitting coach.  He also likes the campus, the curriculum and the general vibe of the school.  But to be honest his main reason for the choice is Baseball.  If he can't make it as a pro he wants to coach.

It isn't even so much about playing time.  His particular position, 2B is held by an All-Conference Junior this year who will almost for sure be back for his Senior year, so my nephew will likely see very little playing time before his Soph year at the earliest.

How unusual is this?  He is considered a legit D1 talent.  His high school coach thinks he is crazy to pass on attending a D1.  I think it makes sense for the kid to go where he feels comfortable.  

Being an uneducated outsider looking in I would make these points to my nephew:

1. The assistant coaching staff tends to move, so not a good reason to go.

2. D1's, even without scholarship money, tend to be cheaper than D3's.

3. Seeing D1 pitching vs. seeing D3 pitching...come on, no contest. Some could argue that as a position player attending 90+% of D3's could kill the MiLB dream.

4. If coaching is his long term goal learning from a D1 coach would look better on his resume.

5. He may not play much at the D1 until Sophomore year but he doesn't know  for SURE he will be starting on the D3 team.....do they even have a roster limit?

There are a few sentences of advice that I have REALLY taken to heart in this recruiting process.  The one that comes to mind now is "You have to love to TRAIN to play baseball, because if you only love PLAYING baseball you are going to be in for a huge disappointment as you move on in your baseball career. "

I am a huge proponent of D3. However, I agree with the others. Unless, this D3 schools is a top contender every year and has a history of getting players in the best summer programs, where they will see D1 pitching, then Go with one of the D1's. But some of the same caveats apply. Are the D1's offering BB money? Do they get their players in good summer leagues? What is the history of getting 2b to the Milb? 

Which is a better fit academically? Culturally? Financially? Many say that D3 are more expensive. D3's run the gamut, In PA for example, many of the regional campuses are D3. In Wisconsin ,the  WIAC is made up of mostly, if not all large state schools. I know several not so good student, that ended up at very affordable schools, in D3. 

3and2Fastball posted:

... In particular he loves the hitting coach...

t isn't even so much about playing time.  His particular position, 2B is held by an All-Conference Junior this year who will almost for sure be back for his Senior year, so my nephew will likely see very little playing time before his Soph year at the earliest. 

I agree with the opinions above, and will add...

Very few college players love their coach... during their playing days. There are some good posts on here about coaches telling recruits that they aren't going to like them once they get to school. That relationship is completely different from a paid hitting coach.

Are you saying that he's not expecting to start as a freshman for the D3???  Even if this school is a great fit for him, that would concern me. If he's legit D1 talent, and he's thinking about the draft, there are very few D3 teams that are so stacked with talent that they couldn't find room for a high level freshman in their lineup.

D3's are always going to try to recruit D1 talent, it's all about recruiting the best talent possible.  My read is that the relationship with the D3 hitting instructor is clouding the players decision making process.  Seek out another top hitting instructor, it will be helpful to get some objectivity and hopefully better feedback on skill set. He has D1 offers, clearly some see talent.  

If the player has the MLB dream he has to position himself correctly.  RJM first mentioned it above.  He needs to see advanced hitting and have a college coach who can open doors to the best summer league teams.   

Given your discussion about the junior second baseman at the D3, I assume your nephew is a senior.

There isn't a lot of D1 recruiting of 2017 position players going on right now. Those deals were mostly sealed last fall. Are you sure the D1 options are still viable this late in the game?

It could be that he's choosing between D1 walk-on roles and a D3 where he has a relationship.

He may rationally see the D3, not so much as his best option to go pro, but his best option to play. 

And don't get too wrapped up in the "D1 talent" categorization. A whole lot of D3 players had realistic D1 expectations at one time. 

Most points well covered... 

Something doesn't add up to me.  If he is a true D1 prospect, I question that he would "likely see very little playing time before soph year at the earliest" at a D3.  If true D1 talent, why would he not compete for a start vs the D3 all-conference 2b?  If true D1 talent, seems he would surely have the arm to play ss, 3b or OF at the D3 level if 2b is already their position of strength.  What tools make him a D1 guy?  When you say he is being recruited D1, are we talking offers or just pursuit at this stage? Are we talking decent D1 programs or lower tier?  If we're talking lower tier D1's and the D3 is a powerhouse, there may not be as much difference as most of us are thinking.  Just trying to understand in a bit more depth.

Also, he has taken several lessons from this hitting coach.  He doesn't have to play for him to continue getting his help.  They know each other now and have a rapport.  Modern technology is amazing.  The player could take some video in the cage or pass on some game footage and they can talk through observations, adjustments, etc.

I certainly agree with you that there is some logic to going where you feel most comfortable.  But if he has true pro aspirations, I don't think "comfortable" is going to be part of the equation for a while.  Also, if his coaching aspirations are D1, he will have a much stronger resume having played D1 and been involved in a decent D1 program.  That, in itself, is certainly not a reason to play D1 but...

The way I am reading this is somewhat different, maybe closer to Cabbage...so in my uneducated opinion based on how I read your comments - here you go.

- he is a 2017 grad and if he hasn't signed yet he is at best a 3rd option for whatever schools he is looking at

- unless he is in a top 50 type school pro ball is going to be a long shot and ultimately the MBL which has to be the goal if you are going to waste the time in the minors is a shot at the moon

- the D3 campus, vibe and education fit his desires

- the D3 will most likely be thrilled to have him

- if he wants to coach it can be done from anywhere. hopefully he will be a great recruiter because that is going to be his key to advancement.

- he is going to be a huge longshot to play pro ball regardless of where he goes to college

so based on the above observations I find it hard to recommend he shouldn't be willing to highly consider said D3.

DI talent is OK with not playing until sophomore year at a DIII?

The few DI talents I have seen that go DIII, go in order to play right away.  Or they go DIII for reasons other than baseball.  There are freshmen that play right away at DI colleges, let alone DIII colleges.  I would ask that hitting coach if he thinks you would be one of the DIIIs best hitters as a freshman. If he says yes, why wouldn't he be in the lineup?

He should research the draft and find out how many 2B get drafted and how many DIII players get drafted.  Then how many DIII 2B get drafted. I will say there is something to be said about going where you feel most comfortable.  But sooner or later in baseball you will face discomfort.  Especially if you have some high goals.

Thanks so much for all the replies.  I will convey this advice to my nephew.

He has been somewhat of a late bloomer.  He could always hit & field but he went from being a 5'4" freshman who ran a 7.8 60 and couldn't make any of the better travel teams to 3 years later he is 6'2" and ran a 6.8 60 .... He was late to the recruiting process, late to develop, late to making Varsity and late to grow.

Great points made about the D1's probably being walk-on offers at this point in the process.  Also that he could just continue getting hitting lessons from the coach in the offseason.  The D3 is a very competitive school that has contended for the D3 National Championship in multiple seasons in the last few decades.

I'm not as close to my nephew as I would be, obviously, with my own son.  So there are clearly aspects of all this that I'm not aware of.  It could be that he is just being humble about probably not starting right away at the D3.

3and2Fastball posted:

 

Great points made about the D1's probably being walk-on offers at this point in the process.  

And something to consider, There will be D1 scholarship money for 2017's opening up after the draft.  If your nephew is being courted by solid D1's who stand to lose a player or two to the upcoming draft, then he needs to be having discussions with those D1 coaches about what offers they're making contingent on money becoming available this year.

You have some good advice for your nephew.  I agree with some others and IMO he is clearly not "solid D1 material" particularly if he is a Sr without multiple D1 offers that include significant BB $$. He would also be getting multiple questionnaires from MLB clubs if he was in this category. He might be able to play at that level but I don't think I would categorize him as that type of player based on what I read. 

Regardless of where he falls in terms of skills.

My advice would be for him to go where he is comfortable and will have a positive college and baseball experience, and I disagree with some of the others; yes go where he likes the coaches for crying out loud. I say this because my son played for arguable the top D3 program in the country for the past 6 years and last years CWS champion. He loved the coaching and still is in contact with many of them.  There are also pitchers and position players routinely drafted out of this program - so a top D3 program will have a following of professional scouts. Something others have not pointed out, but it is a heck of a lot more fun to play for a winning program at the D3 level, vs a loosing program at the D1 level IMO. My son went to four straight regionals, one CWS and played in every league championship series and those types of games are really special. Again this is just my perspective. 

It IS more difficult to get drafted out of a D3 as a position player so if he goes this route and wants to be considered for the draft it is mandatory for him to play summer college ball at a high level. I won't go into the leagues he will need to play in as this is another subject that has been covered here. 

Anyway just my 2 cents. Good luck to your nephew! 

If your nephew is a senior and not getting any money from the D1's he's a "just in case" recruit. Just in case the two top recruits projected for his position don't work out we have this third guy. But then there's another recruiting class the following year. A "just in case" recruit is more likely to be off the roster than starting by junior year. 

I mentioned that.  "Are any of the D1's offering partial athletic scholarships?"  

He said no, but that a few are saying there is some academic scholarship money in place.  

Last summer he was a late sub on a showcase team.  Played OK but ran a 7.2 60 --- he says he had a minor injury that he didn't tell anyone about that slowed him down.  6 months later he ran a 6.8 60 at a winter showcase and hit well.  He says that the D1 coaches are telling him that they see him as a true late bloomer who could help them.   He senses he isn't a high priority for them though, and he's concerned about getting with hitting coaches who might want to change his swing and try to get him to swing down to contact.  The hitting coach he loves at the D3 teaches a pro style approach similar to Bobby Tewksbary.

3and2Fastball posted:

I mentioned that.  "Are any of the D1's offering partial athletic scholarships?"  

He said no, but that a few are saying there is some academic scholarship money in place.  

Last summer he was a late sub on a showcase team.  Played OK but ran a 7.2 60 --- he says he had a minor injury that he didn't tell anyone about that slowed him down.  6 months later he ran a 6.8 60 at a winter showcase and hit well.  He says that the D1 coaches are telling him that they see him as a true late bloomer who could help them.   He senses he isn't a high priority for them though, and he's concerned about getting with hitting coaches who might want to change his swing and try to get him to swing down to contact.  The hitting coach he loves at the D3 teaches a pro style approach similar to Bobby Tewksbary.

Cool, with that new info, it sounds more like a kid who could potentially play D1 at some point with continued development but doesn't stand out to the extent he has been offered any D1 athletic $ so, there is absolutely nothing wrong with looking at a strong D3 that he likes.

Next question... what is it that has the HS coach saying he is crazy (considering he hasn't been offered a dime of athletic scholy $)?