D3: who has pull, slots, tips, etc?

In an active thread, the subject of D3 coaches pull arose and rather then hijack that thread, I thought to start a focused one.

Any info I personally have is so dated as to be deemed not really reliable. So, calling all parents who have info of various D3 programs:

  • which coach's (schools) have pull, slot, tips - or whatever name is given - with admissions;
  • how many kids show up each fall to tryout;
  • where and when (his HS yr) was your son seen;
  • can a kid be in the lower half of the incoming academic class stats;
  • if your son has already experienced one season, did he play summer college ball, and if so, where.

Some of these subjects have been discussed (but not really recently) and all the info in one thread would help some.

Original Post

Goosegg, this is a great idea for a thread. In my ignorance, though, I don't understand the question "can a kid be in the lower half of the incoming academic class stats" -- I'm not trying to be a wisea**, but isn't half of the incoming class in the lower half? Did you mean below the 25th percentile or something like that?

I'll start this off. This was from 6 years ago. 

  • Not sure on pull.
  • There were only a handful of kids not recruited that show up for fall tryouts. I don't know of any who made team. They discourage players from thinking they can just show up and make the team. 
  • I believe he was seen at Stanford Camp of his rising Sr year (summer between Jr/Sr) and they followed him throughout the summer/fall.  
  • Yes, but the demands of baseball and academics should be taken into consideration. Baseball and maintaining academics is hard, especially for a team that expects to win and a competitive university. 
  • He played in the California Collegiate League, but his HS coach recommended him the CCL coach.  His college coach concurred and was very proactive in placing players in competitive leagues that match players skills.  

As a D3 coach in the Northeast I can tell you the answer to your question is as varied as there are programs. I can tell you what applies to our program and I'm sure other schools are similar but not the same. 

  • As for "pull" .... in our school all the athletic programs are afforded what we call direct admit. Which means an athlete gets admissions to do their application ahead of the regular student body. No preference for underperformance just immediate admittance if they qualify. There are avenues for borderline applicants like special tests and makeup programs .... the athletes get that help right away.
  • We are required to hold an open tryout. It is not well publicised to the student body so most of the kids that show up were already on our recruit list and applied to the school. We get about 50 kids to the open tryout and we usually have 1 or 2 make the roster. Since there are no scholarships we only guarantee our recruits a spot on the fall roster and then it's up to them to stick.
  • We start a database on PSA's as soon as the player is in HS. First looks are usually a video. If both parties stay interested we try to see them in game action. We attend showcases but rarely do we use it as a recruiting tool unless a PSA is already in our database and he lets us know he will be at a specific showcase. We usually let our recruits know which showcases we will attend. We also have a camp or open workout for PSA's.
  • The academics of the players reflect the general student body. If they get in the school they are eligible to play. We don't reject a player just because he is in the lower percentile. Of course he is required to go to study hall and supply us with a progress report from his professors. If he falls below a 2.2 GPA he becomes ineligible at our school.
  • We allow our players to play summer ball where they feel it's best for their situation. We recommend certain players to certain programs but it's not required to play. If they decide not to play we STRONGLY suggest they be in a training program over the summer  

Some great questions which will have a lot of different answers. 

In my boys’ experiences, some coaches had pull and others didn’t.

For D3, I highly recommend prospective student-athletes engage their Admissions rep in addition to the baseball coaches. Expressing interest via email, campus visit, interview, visit at the high school or a college fair, etc. can be very helpful in the admissions decision. 

Very few guys showed up who weren’t recruited. Zero made the teams.

My boys purposely avoided programs that over recruit and/or that wouldn’t guarantee a Spring roster spot for at least the first year. 

My boys were both seen at Headfirst. The absolute best showcase for high academic kids IMHO. My oldest played D1 too. He was seen at some other places. 

Both boys were helped by baseball in gaining admission. Without question.  

Summer ball last year in the Valley League (awesome!) and the Golden State Collegiate League (not awesome).

Son was a 2011 grad so this information is Old. And only applies to his school

  • which coach's (schools) have pull, slot, tips - or whatever name is given - with admissions;
    • No Idea, my son was going to have no problem getting into the school. However I have the impression that most schools in the NCAC,(with the exception of one) the coaches have little pull with admissions. But again my son did not need this assistance.
  • how many kids show up each fall to tryout; 
    • There are typically all the recruited kids plus a handful of others. One or two walk-on's usually make the fall roster. Many of those walk on's do not make it to spring, however it is usually their own doing. Issues with Grades or being on their own the first time. 
  • where and when (his HS yr) was your son seen;
    • Not sure, Son was invited to several invite only showcases, as a rising senior. Only one D3 reached out that summer. Others waited until fall of his senior year. Many of the coaches recruiting him saw him at a Showcase called the Buckeye Scout. (now defunct. The The scout that ran it is now with PBR Ohio. There was also a showcase put on by Walsh Jesuit every year. 
  • can a kid be in the lower half of the incoming academic class stats;
    • Athletes academics match the general schools academics in the NCAC. (possibly one exception). So they have the same chances as anyone else with there academics. They may be slightly less than the other kids with Academics, If the non athlete has another talent, such as a musical instrument, great voice, or Art portfolio, that advances him past the others. Athletics is not considered a special talent. 
  • if your son has already experienced one season, did he play summer college ball, and if so, where.
    • First summer he did not like his opportunities. So he played with his travel team for an additional summer. Next year he played in the Great Lakes league and then The Valley league, the summer after that. Used to be his school did not send any freshman further than some local leagues. Now I am seeing more go to the great lakes ans some in the prospect. Coach like to send hitters to the prospect and pitchers to the Great Lakes. Most important he wants the hitters to get playing time. And pitchers to get some work but not too much work. 

This all mostly applies to my sons's school and the NCAC. And it is very old. 

Understood about not wanting to link a screen name to a college. So how about answering the points as best you can AND PM me with details? Leave your son's name out of it and I'll post a compendium - listing schools, and other details which won't be traceable back to the posters.

Obviously, this isn't for me; but lots of info could really help others.

  • which coach's (schools) have pull, slot, tips - or whatever name is given - with admissions;
  • Don't know the answer to this one even though we know the coaching staff pretty well and our son returned to be the assistant head coach and recruiting coordinator for a time.
  • how many kids show up each fall to tryout;
  • As the program gained national prominence at the D3 level from 2002 to 2005, they would get anywhere from 20-40 who would show up without being recruited. They carry a pretty large roster but only about 8-12 per year were actually recruited.  More than a fair percentage get recruited after November of their junior year if they did not sign an NLI.
  • where and when (his HS yr) was your son seen;
  • Stanford Camp after his junior year. It has been a staple since 2000. I know they also heavily scout and recruit from the Arizona Fall Classic.
  • can a kid be in the lower half of the incoming academic class stats;
  • I don't know but they would need to be a strong student to succeed in a demanding environment where accountability exists (class sizes are generally less than 15 and all taught by professors.)
  • if your son has already experienced one season, did he play summer college ball, and if so, where.
  • Coaches are with the very best  in Summer placements. Our son played with the top programs (2 Summers) in the NECBL His roommate pitched in the Cape.  Every Summer they have kids placed among leagues like the  Northwoods, NECBL, Valley, Coastal Plain, Alaska, etc., and an occasional Cape placement. Every Summer they have players/pitchers picked to All Star games and teams in those leagues.

Son is 2018 so will share what I know thus far:

Which coach's (schools) have pull, slot, tips - or whatever name is given - with admissions;

  • Son will attend D3 high academic NESCAC - HC had 9 slots to support players through admissions, 3 of the 9 slots were preferred slots for his top 3 desirable players

Where and when (his HS yr) was your son seen:

  • First seen at Chicagoland Classic, then at PG WWBA and at Showball incoming Senior year
  • Son started emailing video and interest in spring of Junior year, based on sons emails, the HC followed him at the Chicagoland Classic, they talked extensively through the summer 

Can a kid be in the lower half of the incoming academic class stats:

  • Coaches leaned heavily on the middle 50% of accepted ACT scores for that school.  If the player has a 31, and the middle 50% is 31-33, the coach was then comfortable supporting the player

 

My experience is much like Gov's, though the schools are different, so I'm editing his where there are differences.

  • which coach's (schools) have pull, slot, tips - or whatever name is given - with admissions;
    • Son is first year at D3 high academic NESCAC - HC had  about 8 slots to support players through admissions. Do not know about preferences that Gov describes.
  • how many kids show up each fall to tryout;
    • 40 kids showed up this fall, including 6 walkons, none of whom made the team. Coach cut to 30 which may have included kids who were given tips.  Uncertain about that.

 

Where and when (his HS yr) was your son seen:

  • Know he was seen at HF Sacramento in June rising senior summer, followed by Stanford camp a couple days later. May have been seen the fall of Jr. year at HF Florida, but school was not on son's radar at that point.  Email/film contact began in spring of jr. year, with HF Sacramento event a few months later.
  • Son started emailing video and interest in spring of Junior year, based on sons emails, the HC followed him at Stanford, after the RC followed him at HF; they talked extensively through the summer, and invited him to campus in August after a pre-read.  Offer made at August meeting with ED app requirement.

Can a kid be in the lower half of the incoming academic class stats:

  • Coaches leaned heavily on the middle 50% of accepted ACT scores for that school.  If the player has a 31, and the middle 50% is 31-33, the coach was then comfortable supporting the player.  Son's scores/grades were right at 50%tile, for the prior admitting year.  Turns out for his admit year admissions was more competitive and he was at about the 45%tile.  My understanding is that scores HAD to be at 25%ile or above.
  • Son is playing in Japan next summer, organized by coaches in our community. Approved by HC, who seems pretty flexible.

     

  • A note I find interesting.  Son had several offers from similar schools.  Visited each one of them after offers were extended from coaches and pre reads were done with admissions, all with green light.  NO coaches added any extra pressure, other than ED app requirement for their school.  They were friendly, but not pushy, and they all told him he was their #1 OF recruit.  I don't think that was true anywhere, frankly, and what I still don't quite get is their patience with him.  I'm not sure he was one of their top picks the coaches had to use admissions credit with.  It may be that he would have been admitted anyway or it may be that the schools he was interested don't beg players to come there because they don't need to.  Not that I wanted son to begged to go.  I was just surprised that none of them put a deadline on when they needed his commitment.  I know other players who were given a week to decide.  Son was given three months. Makes me think he was NOT the top choice, and was more likely insurance.

I'll add as well from my experience with 2018 this past year with D3:

  • which coach's (schools) have pull, slot, tips - or whatever name is given - with admissions;

Son really did not need assistance with admissions as he was accepted into a doctorates program first try.  I do know the coach followed up with admissions before we actually received official notification through the mail.

  • how many kids show up each fall to tryout;

Since he has yet to attend, not really sure on how many there were, but when 2018 went for OV the HC told us that there was a little over recruiting the year prior with more than expected walk-ons...he planned to cut roster down to 35-37 players in spring...this spring they have 39.  I do recall seeing someone last fall that was recruited and the player was not on the spring roster --could be medical or grade ineligibility though.  The player my son stayed with during the OV was not on the roster as well (he is a soph this year).  The D3 is always in the top regional standings.

 

  • Where and when (his HS yr) was your son seen:

Son was seen at a camp the D3 hosted in August timeframe before senior year...we were the last to register two weeks prior as my son was school searching for 6 year programs in PT.  Went and had a day going 3 for 4 with a 3B, 2B, 1B, and line out...also threw a laser from RF to snag a guy at home.  Head Coach called him 5 mins after we left and invited him for an OV.  HC and son have been talking weekly ever since.  I've heard that D3 coaches do this  due to not wanting to lose the player since nothing is binding the player to the school until they step on campus.  HC told son he was one of the top two or three position players recruited this year.  HC never gave 2018 a deadline either...there was no contact with asst coaches or recruiting coordinator...all contact was with HC.  Not sure if this is routine, but figured it was a good sign.  Son decided to commit in October.

 

  • Can a kid be in the lower half of the incoming academic class stats: 

Really not sure on this one.

 

  • Some added notes:

If i could give any advice concerning D3's is do not rush just to commit...take your time.  Find a school and team that your player clicks with.  We were fortunate to find the D3 my soon committed to.  One day during practice in Feb when my son and i were up for a scholarship essay, the coach invited us on field and behind the batting net during BP.  We ended up talking about the players taking BP...which ones he liked, some that needed work, told us about the incoming freshmen, etc...my son had a good time.  I could see how the conversation just flowed between him and my son and knew the decision 2018 made was the right one.  Good luck to all the players during the college season and to the HS parents out there, enjoy it!  Because it goes quick...

I want to acknowledge what Philly says about things clicking (especially from the kid's point of view) and how critical that is.  It could be classified under the comment often seen here:

You'll know when they're seriously interested.

How we understood this:  After HF and Stanford, son went down a list of schools he wanted to apply to,whether baseball was part of the deal or not.  He contacted each of the coaches before the camps, but did not have time to meet each of them there, so he wasn't sure he was seen by everyone.  However, in the week or two after the camps, many wrote back offering to meet him on campus, and asked him to send transcript and scores for an admissions pre-read.  He narrowed the list from there.  What we didn't know at the time was that he would be offered at each school he visited. Maybe we could have asked ahead of time, but we didn't really expect any offers at all.  It was only early August and he hadn't actually met all the coaches yet. Sure, he was personally invited with a legit email or phone call, and the HC made clear that he would be the coach there to meet with, and not anyone else, so maybe that was more of a signal than we understood at the time.  We certainly didn't want to assume anything, especially since the schools were so hard o get into.

At the end of each of son's meetings with the various HCs, he would ask the coach where he stood, and the coach would look at his computer, shuffle some papers around in a file, and then say let me see what admissions says, then shuffle some more papers around  and finally say something like we want you to come here and admissions does, too.  I liken this part of the process to that moment when the auto salesman who's been working your sale says I'm not sure I can go that low, let me talk to my manager.  The auto salesman knows exactly how low he can go, and I think these coaches know full well by this point whether a kid is a viable candidate or not.  That little charade of looking through files on the computer to get an admissions report allows a moment of delicious anticipation for the uninitiated.  At son's final choice school, Coach asked if he had any other questions and son said "just one.  Where do I stand with you?"  Coach goes, "Well, I want you to come and play here.  Let's see what admissions says."  Coach taps computer keys, peers at the screen, "Let' see, oh, there it is...yes, it says they think you're a strong candidate for admission.  Does that make things more clear for you?" Long exhale, then "Yes sir, crystal clear."

Long story, short: the connection with the coach is huge.  It may be illusory and fleeting but it can really unlock stuff.

Remember,mit is the coaches job, at many schools, to get you to come there. These coaches are good at making connection, theirnjobs depend it. The connection is great, but listen to what they are saying. It is important to hear what they are saying, and not what you want to hear. 

I am sure Philly and Smoke son's, both did this. But I habe seen to many parents and players hear, they were starters, and not that they would get an opportunity. 

smokeminside posted:

I want to acknowledge what Philly says about things clicking (especially from the kids point of view) and how critical that is.  It could be classified under the comment often seen here:

You'll know when they're seriously interested.

How we understood this:  After HF and Stanford, son went down a list of schools he wanted to apply to whether baseball was part of the deal or not.  He contacted each of them before the camps, but did not have time to meet each of them there, so he wasn't sure he was seen by everyone.  However, in the week or two after the camps, many wrote back offering to meet him on campus, and asked him to send transcript and scores for an admissions pre-read.  He narrowed the list from there.  What we didn't know at the time was that he would be offered at each school he visited. Maybe we could have asked ahead of time, but we didn't really expect any offers at all.  It was only early August and he hadn't actually met all the coaches yet. Sure, he was personally invited, and the HC made clear that he would be there and not anyone else, so maybe that was more of a signal than we understood at the time.  We certainly didn't want to assume anything, especially since the schools were so hard o get into.

At the end of each of son's meetings with the various HCs, he would ask the coach where he stood, and the coach would look at his computer, shuffle some papers around in a file, and then say let me see what admissions says, then shuffle some more papers around  and finally say something like we want you to come here and admissions does, too.  I liken this part of the process to that moment when the auto salesman who's been working your sale says I'm not sure I can go that low, let me talk to my manager.  The auto salesman knows exactly how low he can go, and I think these coaches know full well by this point whether a kid is a viable candidate or not.  That little charade of looking through files on the computer to get an admissions report allows a moment of delicious anticipation for the uninitiated.  At son's final choice school, Coach asked if he had any other questions and son said "just one.  Where do I stand with you?"  Coach goes, "Well, I want you to come and play here.  Let's see what admissions says."  Coach taps computer keys, peers at the screen, "Let' see, oh, there it is...yes, it says they think you're a strong candidate for admission.  Does that make things more clear for you?" Long exhale, then "Yes sir, crystal clear."

Long story, short: the connection with the coach is huge.  It may be illusory and fleeting with it can really unlock stuff.

Awesome reinactment of how a D3 high academic chooses you.  

BLD is spot on on being careful about hearing what you want to hear.  No coach on my son's final list promised him playing time, or even a roster spot.  In fact, one of the schools on his list had a rep for over-recruiting.  Son knew this when he went on an official visit after the initial summertime offer, so he made a point to ask the coach where he thought he fit in with the team.  He said the coach chuckled and said "I'll know more after tryouts."  The clear message was "No promises." and my son (and I) were grateful to hear it spoken so plainly.  The other schools he was interested in weren't quite so direct about it , but my son had no illusions: he would make the team and get playing time based on performance in the fall and spring, not because of any honeysuckle words he (or I) wanted to hear.

Qhead posted:

If some experienced posters are willing to provide some of this information, this will be a golden thread!  Thanks Goose this could be very helpful.

Sincerely, Iceman

I can't believe that film is over 30 years old.  Really miss you, Iceman.

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BishopLeftiesDad posted:

Remember,mit is the coaches job, at many schools, to get you to come there. These coaches are good at making connection, theirnjobs depend it. The connection is great, but listen to what they are saying. It is important to hear what they are saying, and not what you want to hear. 

I am sure Philly and Smoke son's, both did this. But I habe seen to many parents and players hear, they were starters, and not that they would get an opportunity. 

agree...2018 is using this as motivation to improve and nothing else...he knows there is no guarantees.

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