Difference in Philosophys

Unless what the HS coaches are asking will hurt your son, I see it as two choices...

Get on board with their program or don't.  

Has your son tried sitting down and talking with the HS coaches to understand where they are coming from?  If not I would suggest that.  If they are still steadfast in their ways, not much you can do.

Uh, this seems simple.....if he wants to play HS he's going to have to do what they say (or at least make it seem like he is)    What is the biggest difference?  He's a sophomore....what did he play as a freshman?  If he's new to the program, I think what you'll likely find is if he is able to contribute, the HS coach's issues with TBR will go away.  It makes them look good if things go well, and they have an "excuse" if things don't.....lol

That being said, the "pitching coach" at my son's HS had no absolutely no idea what he was doing and my son had been coached by former MLB pitchers at 12U and 13U so my answer is based on that....lol. 

LuvMyKids posted:

Hello everyone,

I did a search on this topic and was unable find anything on this site, so here goes.

What do you do when the HS HC and PC coach have a different pitching training philosophy than you and your player?

Just to give a little background, son (2020) attended the Texas Baseball Ranch. The HS coaching staff are not fans of their program. We are on board with TBR 100%.

Son has been basically been told he will do what they (HS staff) want.

All comments and responses are appreciated.

Thanks

 

 

I may be able to help if you send me a PM.  I'm familiar with TBR and may be familiar with your HS program.  Either way, I have encountered this problem before.

joes87 posted:

Unless what the HS coaches are asking will hurt your son, I see it as two choices...

Get on board with their program or don't.  

Has your son tried sitting down and talking with the HS coaches to understand where they are coming from?  If not I would suggest that.  If they are still steadfast in their ways, not much you can do.

JOES87,

Yes, son tried to discuss but it went nowhere. Sons approach is to do what is asked of him when under their direction, but still work on his own. Last season he was told to not work with an outside instructor in season, which he honored and it was a big mistake. Dominant to start the season because of ramp up work prior to season. Took a nose dive mid-season on. Son did not get any mound work in season at practice, none and it showed. I take full responsibility, I should have done something and got him work outside of HS practice. He was not the only one, ALL non-varsity pitchers didn't get any practice bump time.

One thing I need to make clear. My intent is not to bash sons HS coach in any way shop or form. He likes the program and he has received plenty of work as a position player. The first thing I learned sons freshmen year was that varsity rules, I get it.

The bottom line is that, if you want to play at the next level, it requires more time spent on your craft than will be required of you within the amount of time allotted to high school practices. Do what your HS coaches want in the short amount of time they have you. Do the minimum amount required and accentuate it with your TBR stuff on your own time. The high school season is relatively short. Suck it up and nod a lot. 

roothog66 posted:

The bottom line is that, if you want to play at the next level, it requires more time spent on your craft than will be required of you within the amount of time allotted to high school practices. Do what your HS coaches want in the short amount of time they have you. Do the minimum amount required and accentuate it with your TBR stuff on your own time. The high school season is relatively short. Suck it up and nod a lot. 

great advice.  My son went through similar issue between hs staff and hitting instruction, and he handled it as Root states above. Grin and bear it until hs season is over.

Do you have a strong feeling?   If I felt strongly something was best for my son NO ONE could move me off it.  Especially baseball where high school ball is just so optional.  

OP - can you please elaborate as to what the HS coaches want your son to do that is different than what the TBR folks say to do?  

Playing for your high school, representing your community, with teammates you've known for many years, in some cases your entire childhood, is something special.

Reality is a high school coach (good or bad) has a tremendous amount of power in helping or hindering for the next level.  I know of one player who was basically buried on the bench for 2 years.  It was rumored a personality clash.  He ended up going as a walk on to a Power-5 school, made the team, became a starter and eventually an All-American.  He is now in the pros.  HC wanted my son to use his instructor.  We let it die down a bit and continued with his current instructor on the side.  Luckily son was able to put up good numbers thus became a moot point.  HC still tried to get him to switch but couldn't argue with stats.  Same thing with D1 so don't think it's just HS.  Go with who the both of you feel will be most beneficial.  As long as he produces there is little argument.  

If a coach is really tremendous and is able to see things like a pro, the following won't work.  Having said that:

A heckuva lot of coaches won't even notice if you just say "yes sir" and keep doing it the same way you did before.  In fact they'll say "Yep, good, that's better".

The three areas where you will encounter this issue is pitching, hitting and catching.

As HS doesn't want to hear from the parent, I would say have the kid try first.  Unfortunately this is a situation  that I think a parent SHOULD get involved if need be.  Obviously feelings and egos get involved way to much with coaches.  Its not like your athlete is changing up assignments that are used by his other team or anything.  Its mechanics.  I would appreciate the athlete seeking additional help.  And if I were to make a suggestion or request a mechanics change and he says he prefers to do it this way....Take note...And if the coach feels that it is really holding back his accuracy or speed, tell him.  If the kid refuses, than its on him and his lack of playing time.  But simply because it isnt HIS way?  coach is dead wrong.

Ran into this issue catching.  My son was playing legion (more so to play with friends during the summer and travel for competition).  Among other issues such as overuse, he did not react well to an assistant coach trying to change his mechanics.  He tossed out two from the dish and they stole none one game and the next the coach was trying to change his whole approach.  T politely advised the coach if he could continue to do it the way his former coach (mlb experienced catcher) has instructed him.  The coach yelled at him and sat him for a game.  T advised the head coach that he was there more out of courtesy and if the assistant tried that again he would walk.  

It only half solved the problem and the assistant tried to find a replacement for T but that experiment was short lived. And since we play enough on the weekends, we wont play legion anymore. This assistant got into it with the head coach of legion and while I was down helping coach MS ball, he also argued with the head middle school coach.  some guys...sheesh. 

With HS ball...totally different beast.      It helps we have some family that are HS coaches and we do occasionally run into the AD from time to time who is always open for a "general" inquiry on how to handle things.....

3and2Fastball posted:

If a coach is really tremendous and is able to see things like a pro, the following won't work.  Having said that:

A heckuva lot of coaches won't even notice if you just say "yes sir" and keep doing it the same way you did before.  In fact they'll say "Yep, good, that's better".

 

EXACTLY!!!

Now, let me come at this from a different way. I have often been the coach with some kid who was seeing an instructor who taught things I didn't agree with and didn't want done. Here is my philosophy. I'll teach you what I know and if you decide to go with your guru, that's your decision, but you better not stumble. I'll stand behind a kid who is slumping, but working hard on what I happen to believe will help. You have to understand, though, that if you're slumping and you're working on things I think are counter-productive or you don't want to follow the things that I think will help you, then your going to find yourself on the bench pretty soon. If what you are doing, though, works, I'll pay attention and may even steal it. 

roothog66 posted:

Now, let me come at this from a different way. I have often been the coach with some kid who was seeing an instructor who taught things I didn't agree with and didn't want done. Here is my philosophy. I'll teach you what I know and if you decide to go with your guru, that's your decision, but you better not stumble. I'll stand behind a kid who is slumping, but working hard on what I happen to believe will help. You have to understand, though, that if you're slumping and you're working on things I think are counter-productive or you don't want to follow the things that I think will help you, then your going to find yourself on the bench pretty soon. If what you are doing, though, works, I'll pay attention and may even steal it. 

This is a much more accurate perspective from the coach's side than anything else posted thus far.  The OP problem is a real one.  Son hasn't excelled on the field enough yet to have leverage with the HS coach.  We don't know enough about the specific differences in question yet and don't know what it is that the HS coach doesn't like about TBR teachings.   But, it must be something specific and noticeable for it to be at this point.  So, I don't think this is one of those scenarios where the "nod and agree and then do what you want" is gonna work.  (Personally, I don't think that's great advice anyway, but that's for another discussion.)  

Luvmykids, I, like others, would like to know those specifics that HS coach doesn't like about TBR if you are comfortable sharing.  I think that's the only way you can get any decent actionable advice here.  

3and2Fastball posted:

OP - can you please elaborate as to what the HS coaches want your son to do that is different than what the TBR folks say to do?  

Playing for your high school, representing your community, with teammates you've known for many years, in some cases your entire childhood, is something special.

I sent you a PM..... thanks

The higher the level you play the more likely that happens and the more the coaches will expect you to follow. Best is probably to do what they want and then do the other stuff privately. 

If you tell them they are wrong you can do that but then you better never have a slump...

And in college and pro ball it gets worse so don't expect that problem to ever go away.

Had similar situation with catcher son.  I agree with previous comments if you want to compete at the next level you must work outside of the normal HS hours.  It my opinion it is very important to communicate with the outside person you are using exactly what they are doing during HS hours.  It is a fine line between extra work and over work, especially for Pitchers. 

In regards to coaches who insist on no outside work, in my opinion it will be a personal decision by parent and player.  You risk suffering consequences of HS Coach versus gaining additional knowledge and better prepare you for next level.

I can honestly say my son would not have signed Div 1 scholarship without outside work from professional catcher we used.  I did not have the expertise having never caught nor did anyone on the HS coaching staff have catcher experience.  This doesn't even consider the additional contacts the outside instructor had with many college coaches.  I never had a problem with understanding what my instructional limitations were and to seek outside experts.  Unfortunately some HS coaches do.  Not a blanket statement for all HS coaches.  Some HS coaches are very qualified to coach all aspects of the game.

Dominik85 posted:

The higher the level you play the more likely that happens and the more the coaches will expect you to follow. Best is probably to do what they want and then do the other stuff privately. 

If you tell them they are wrong you can do that but then you better never have a slump...

And in college and pro ball it gets worse so don't expect that problem to ever go away.

 

College and Pro ball they are now your employers, you have little choice but to do as told.  Not quite sure if that applies to high school though.  IMHO if my kid fails at my choice instructors, nobody to blame but myself.  My decision, my responsibility, my result.  I'm the one reading a site like this to try to get him into college, or supporting him for the next 20 plus years.  A high school coach is done with him after 1-4 years.  I wish more high school coaches were willing to work with the player, to teach him the game, to improve his game.  But it should be an option, not a requirement to use my way or else.  My previous post basically was because a player didn't see eye to eye with "the program" he was buried.  It boggles my mind one person can pretty much determine the life of an athlete or student.