My son has played with a lot of the same boys for several years. He enjoys the summers because he likes the boys he plays with. We are coming up on an important summer and are contemplating whether or not we reach out to some of the power programs for more exposure or if he is good enough, they will find him wherever he plays? Thoughts?
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Yes, it matters.
Being on an average to poor team, they won't be able to compete with the top teams, thus won't get seen as much.
The connections the top teams have with colleges should not be underestimated, either.
What age are we talking about?
Pitcher or position player?
As well as matters for being seen, it also matters surrounding a player with very good to better players. If your son looks around the dugout and sees multiple D1 commits, what they look like, their skill level, their work ethic, it can be a big deal to their confidence in their abilities and work ethic.
What Go44 said, and as 3and 2 said, the more credible advocates (and many of the travel coaches of the best teams are very well known in the college coaching community) a kid has, the better (including, of course, high school coach, professional scouts, etc.)
He is a position player and pitcher. He is ranked top 5 in the state (PG) for his position, but his future is likely on the mound. We have listed him as a position player first because he isn't ready to be a PO yet and is good hitter. That said, when he gets noticed, it is his pitching.
I would say our club has good connections, our team is pretty good but we aren't a power team.
He is a sophomore.
He is a 2020 ranked 5th in the state? I think you are fine, but I am surprised the more connected teams haven't been calling. Does he want to play both ways in college?
He has been contacted by a few teams, but we have some major power teams in our state and I would rather do that than a team based across the country. He has been really happy with the social aspect where he is at and I honestly wouldn't change it unless it was a big help in the recruiting game. That said, one of the teams I looked at has the number 1 ranked for his position in our state and the number 2. He is the number 3. They also have a number 1 for his position from another state, so I am thinking play time too, not that competition isn't good.
Oh, and I think he would love to play both ways but he also has high aspirations in terms of colleges and he is more likely to get there via pitching we think.
To be able to give good advice it would be helpful to have more info. What state do you reside in? What kind of "exposure" are you talking about..local schools, power 5 schools, MLB, or just getting invited to top events? You listed he was ranked by PG, was that from a showcase or tourney? What kind of tourneys is his current team playing in?
Just being with a power program doesn't guarantee anything. Yes they can open doors but it doesn't mean everyone from their program gets a scholly. Most of these programs have 1 national team and several other teams for that same age class. Unless you're on the top team, I would lower my expectations.
Yes, yes, and...oh, hell yes. You will be surprised at how much the word of a well-respected, credible, power travel team coach can have. My son played summers for a team that was good, but not one of the powerhouse organizations. However, they were a top 25-type team. The HC had a reputation for being brutally honest with college recruiters. My son had an offer from a Power 5 school based on nothing more than his coach's word that he was the real deal and had been throwing 2-3 mph above what had been recently verified. They never even saw my son play, but the RC told us that everything our HC had ever said about any of our players had been verified by the school whenever they saw the kids in action.
Yes, the team/program can make a difference. But don't be fooled by very good travel teams that are dominating local tournaments. The top programs for recruiting may not be the dominate travel team in your area. A good program based around recruiting may not even be playing in most tourneys in your area.
Up here in Chicagoland there are a handful of programs which are known as conduits to get your kids into college or the MLB draft. These programs, at the upper levels, don't play many local tourneys and when they do play them they will approach the game a little differently then other programs. That may cause them to loose games. They spend the majority of their time playing each other or in events closed to other programs but attended to by many college recruiters.
Before my son became involved in this level of baseball I could not figure out why these programs were considered good by many. We were beating many times and winning more tourneys then we were. Turns out their philosophy regarding local tourneys was not about winning, but improving their players skill set so they showed better in front of the important people.
You have to decide what is best for your kid and his situation. If he's nationally ranked one would think your travel team is playing in the right events. We have a local team, all nationally ranked player, every year every one of them goes on to play in college, but there are 36 kids on the team! THIRTY SIX!
So, do you want to wear the cool name on the Jersey and guarantee colleges will flock to see him...although he will only play once every 4th or 5th game, or would you like your son to play more and work three times as hard for the scholarship? Neither answer is wrong, it just depends on the kid and family.
We are in TX. He has been to two events. A showcase and a tournament. He was named to the top prospect team and list and at the tournament, to the all tournament team for pitching and hitting. We want exposure to power 5 schools ideally, but I think he is open and he also wants a school that is a good fit. Last summer we did VTool and PG. We are willing to do camps, etc., if that is just as effective as playing for a top program in terms of exposure. It's hard to know the best path.
It makes a huge difference. The top programs typically have coaches who are well connected with colleges. These programs tend to play in the better tourneys.....or here in the OH/IN area, the Midwest Scout League....which is invite only and draws a ton of coaches every time they host a weekend. A good team playing in tourneys that doesn't draw coaches won't do you any good, though your son sounds like he's good enough that he'll eventually be found but why take the chance?
The top program coaches get calls like this: "Coach, I need an outfielder in the 2019 class. Whattaya got?"
It actually happens almost exactly like this.
I appreciate the feedback, and those are some of the questions I am trying to dig through and ultimately, it will be my son's choice. The reasons to stay, loyalty, he loves his teammates. That said, we aren't making it to the finals where I can only assume most coaches would attend. Also, as stated, do we want to be on a team of 35 and play only here and there vs enjoying the summer and getting experience? The power teams in TX are some of the power teams nationally, so they are playing the big tournaments and getting invites. I have no idea if there would even be spots for him, but I think if we go that route, we need to start reaching out soon.
Yes the quality of the travel team matters at your son's age for both exposure and development. Additionally, it has been said on HSBBWeb many times that you want to find the best travel team where your son can get on the field for that exposure. Good luck!
Concur with all the above comments, plus:
College coaches have "go to baseball clubs" in most geographic areas - these clubs have excellent reputations for producing good players. These clubs are like a farm system for the colleges. Beware though, if you go to a strong brand club and your son ends up being on the 2nd or 3rd team, and depending on the schedule and mix of players, it could be a waste. Try to find out the teams upcoming summer tourney schedule; normally there are key tourney's the team will always go to, and how did that team fare the past season, look up some of the players on each of the teams....
With a lot of strong players on one team, by default there are multiple recruiting magnets. The college coaches could show up to see a Pitcher, and the SS is making great plays and hitting like a mad man, next thing you know, that same college coach is more focused on the SS than the P. Happens all the time.
Possibly the stupidest reason we get -- and we get it often -- from a player who passes up the opportunity to play for us is, "I just want to play with my friends."
It's stupid because (a) join us, you'll make new/more friends, and (b) if you're serious about wanting to play college baseball, then you need to do what gives you your best shot at that. When someone sticks with that line, it tells me he's not that serious, and no matter how talented he may be, he's not really on the path to success.
There have been, no doubt, any number of opportunities to stick with your buddies thus far. And once a commitment is in hand, you can go back to them if you wish. In between, though, you're basically in a job application process, and until the job has been cinched up, not doing all you could do to enhance your prospects is self defeating.
It is a fact that players on higher caliber teams get more looks. A coach comes to see Player A, and he sees you while he's there. Another coach comes to see Player B, and he sees you, too. If your team lacks stud players, you don't get that exposure. The reality is, there are soooo many teams out there that college coaches are always having to decide where their limited time will be best spent. If you are the one talented guy on your team, then maybe if you're a pitcher throwing 90 you'll get the looks you want, but otherwise it can be tough.
If I were a pitcher, I would want a team with a stout defense and especially a strong catcher. Those guys are going to make me look my best. I don't care how talented you are, if your defense boots balls and you have a lot of 30-pitch innings, it's going to be hard for anyone to think of you as their next recruit.
As a hitter, if my lineup is stronger, I get more AB's per game. I get more AB's with men on base and the pitcher in the stretch.
You should also know that certain programs get opportunities that other programs don't get. If a program has a history of bringing strong talent and a deep lineup to the field, they are going to get preferences for a team workout opportunity, or for hosting a mini-tournament at a particular school on a particular weekend. That's the college coaches telling you that they trust the guys running this particular travel program not to waste their time, but to show them players who are viable prospects for their programs.
The caveat someone mentioned above is important, though. Some programs have their "A" team and then a bunch of other squads that are, well, not at that same level. If those programs are offering your son a role, make sure you know which squad they have in mind for him.
The rule is simply this: Play for the best team that offers you regular playing time. If the program puts you on its roster but you are used only as bench/bullpen depth, that doesn't work. But if a very strong program has a regular role for you, go there.
BaseballHS I sent you a PM.
Great advice in this thread, and great to see that you are leaving it to your son to decide. As a sophomore, this is really the time that he needs to decide what he hopes for with college baseball.
In Texas, as we experienced in California, there is a ton of great baseball talent all hoping to get exposure to D1 programs and be recruited. The best way to get that exposure is to either be a starter on an elite HS program where kids are regularly recruited by D1s and drafted by MLB teams, or be at least a contributor on a strong travel ball team that gets invitations to play in the high profile events like PG wood bat and the Arizona Fall Classic where lots and lots of college recruiters come to evaluate talent. And it is not just those events that the top travel teams go to. They get invited to weekend events at Power 5 schools where coaches watch them. They get to play against Scout teams where MLB scouts are in attendance. Players on those teams get invited to the PG, Under Armour and Area Code showcases, and so on.
Your son really enjoys his current situation playing with friends, and that is important. But he has to recognize that by choosing to stay with them, he may miss the window to get recruited at a D1 (which is really starting now into his Junior year for him). If playing at a D1 Power 5 is not his main priority, then he has lots of other options if he stays with his current team. He might still make it to a D1 school if he finds the right opportunity for exposure. With his potential, there will definitely be D2 and D3 programs looking at him. Depending on his academic interests, he could even go JuCo and find a route to D1 that way.
If you research this thread, you will rarely find a story of a kid "discovered" at a school camp or through his high school who winds up at D1. It really is about getting exposed to college recruiters, who have limited budgets to recruit. They go to the big events where the top travel teams are. It is the reality.
Good luck and keep us posted on what he decides.
BaseballHS - I just sent you a PM also
I'd also like to add in there that WHO is coaching him can be huge. My son had the chance to go with multiple teams this year, in the end he decided to go with a team that was being coached by a local JUCO head coach. You can't get much closer than that to a guy who will tell you what colleges are REALLY looking for, AND has a good relationships with D1 and D2 colleges.
Also, if your son is playing on a team that plays the cool events like Underclass PG it's likely coaches will see him. Playing the youth tournaments I never really understood the PG pools, seemed like an odd way to do it. Now I've seen first hand that each pool contains a team that has a good chance of winning the event. That means that the local XYZ team that put some guys together WILL play Team National Premier Elite blah blah blah team. This means that while colleges are there looking at the "top" team they are seeing your kid too. Now, can your kid pull of being outstanding that game? Tough to say, but he will be seen if he's playing in the big PG tourneys, especially if he is a pitcher making the Team National Premier Elite blah blah blah team sit down one by one.
Another option at least in California is to try to play on a Scout Team or Connie Mack League. Generally these teams are sponsored by a MLB team or have some kind of relationship with MLB. There are tryouts based on hs coach recommendations thus you frequently get the top players. I don't consider this a travel team per se since you just play at a few colleges. The do play in well known tournaments out of state. Great experience, frequently both college and pro scouts are watching games. The scout team my son played on helped in the recruitment process by arranging workouts for scouts to see. They also asked each player top 2 colleges on their list and made an effort to have someone come down if in the area.
baseballhs posted:. That said, we aren't making it to the finals where I can only assume most coaches would attend.
This is what I was referring to with my comments about the right team. With some exception, the right program may not even be playing in most of the tourneys you are in. If he is truly interested in playing in college you need to find a program that will get him in front of the right folks. Just playing in a tourney hoping to make it to the finals because it is assumed that the right folks will be there is not enough. I would guess that for the majority of the tourney hosted throughout the US 95% of them will never see a college RC at a game.
Someone mentioned the Midwest Scouts league. Here in Chicago there is the Chicago Scouts Association. During the "meat" of the season these guys are hosting a private event. Its not a true tourney as the teams playing are not playing for seeding for a tourney final. Instead they are just playing games against each other. We would see more RC and HCs watching one of these games then we would watching all the tourney final games we played in combined in a year. There are a very small number of teams associated with CSA in the area. Many of these teams are known to the other teams, but many of them do not understand how they operate.
roothog66 posted:The top program coaches get calls like this: "Coach, I need an outfielder in the 2019 class. Whattaya got?"
It actually happens almost exactly like this.
Top travel coaches also make calls like this: Mr. College Coach. I have a kid who wants to play there I believe is an ideal fit. You have to see him play when you're at XYZ tournament.
Even better is when the travel coach is a buddy and/or been feeding the college program for years.
My 2019 was in a very similar situation, and made the change from his 'team of friends' to a higher level national team this summer. As a prospect, it made all the difference in the world! Much more travel & expense, but new coach is very well connected with college coaches (including almost all on his list). Son is currently being recruited by multiple D1's and has no regrets changing teams (except, perhaps he wished he'd done it sooner!).
2022 made the change from his "friends" last year. Best thing ever. He is challenged at practice, is receiving better coaching, and is challenged in games.
joes87 posted:baseballhs posted:. That said, we aren't making it to the finals where I can only assume most coaches would attend.
Someone mentioned the Midwest Scouts league. Here in Chicago there is the Chicago Scouts Association. During the "meat" of the season these guys are hosting a private event. Its not a true tourney as the teams playing are not playing for seeding for a tourney final. Instead they are just playing games against each other. We would see more RC and HCs watching one of these games then we would watching all the tourney final games we played in combined in a year. There are a very small number of teams associated with CSA in the area. Many of these teams are known to the other teams, but many of them do not understand how they operate.
Exact same scenario...the MSL had 8-10 (depending on the weekend) of the top teams from Ohio, IN, IL and KY playing when my son was 17U....each team would host a weekend, either at a college or Grand Park in Indy. The teams would all play 4 games over the 3-day weekend....no brackets, no tourney, just good baseball....and a ton of college coaches. It wasn't uncommon to see 3 or 4 ACC, 4 or 5 B1G and 2 or 3 SEC guys watching on any given weekend in addition to 20-40 others..
Most of the tournaments we played in this summer were hosted by D1 colleges and had several D2 and D3 coaches attending. If your game wasn't on the hosting field and was at a satellite field, it was unlikely that the D1 school would see you. I do think that the teams making it deeper into the PG tournaments have more coaches attending, as well as the games at Lake Pointe. Not so much at the satellite locations, unless as someone mentioned, they are there to see another kid and you get the benefit of being seen as well. I will share the insight given here with him tonight. I feel at this point we should at least explore it and see what his options are.
There are 3 teams from Wisconsin, that I know of, that regularly go to WWBA & Jupiter and have put players into multiple D1's and two of them have put multiple players into the MLB Draft. Those teams are absolutely going to get scouted much stronger at a PG event than a lower level put together team, or even just an established Wisconsin team without the track record, and they are also going to have a much better chance of success, getting through Pool Play and winning a game or three in brackets. Those bracket games are where a lot more of the scouts are clustered around.
baseballhs posted:Most of the tournaments we played in this summer were hosted by D1 colleges and had several D2 and D3 coaches attending. If your game wasn't on the hosting field and was at a satellite field, it was unlikely that the D1 school would see you. I do think that the teams making it deeper into the PG tournaments have more coaches attending, as well as the games at Lake Pointe. Not so much at the satellite locations, unless as someone mentioned, they are there to see another kid and you get the benefit of being seen as well. I will share the insight given here with him tonight. I feel at this point we should at least explore it and see what his options are.
Since you mention Lakepoint, I felt the need to chime back in.
The coaches look at the team schedule and see where THAT team is playing. If that is lakepoint,fine, but the coaches do go to the satellite locations as well. You can bet if Auburn is looking at a 16u Astros kid they really don't care if he isn't at Lakepoint, the coach will go where the kid is playing. They don't stick at lakepoint and hope they see someone on some team that is good.
PG Underclass event happened last weekend. Friday night at 10pm at lakepoint there were coaches all over the place, that was the first day's game, not the finals. The rules regarding college coaches are different the older the player gets.
I think we are saying the same thing. Yes, if they are looking at a specific kid they will probably go to the satellite locations, but Lake Pointe is the only spot where they can walk around and see several teams at once. I for sure saw more coaches there during the WWBA than I did at satellites.
The better the team the better the players. The more top players on the team the more looks your kid gets just by being there.
When I played Legion there weren't travel teams. There was also no guarantee you would see a college coach until states or regions (team made it all three years). But I played with a 6'6" pitcher who threw 93 in the 70's, three other also drafted out of high school pitchers, a future Team USA position player player and a future high draft pick position player. The entire team had constant exposure.
baseballhs posted:I think we are saying the same thing. Yes, if they are looking at a specific kid they will probably go to the satellite locations, but Lake Pointe is the only spot where they can walk around and see several teams at once. I for sure saw more coaches there during the WWBA than I did at satellites.
Yeah. When we played at Lake Pointe we probably had 40-50 scouts watching. When we were off site, no more than 4 or 5 tops and we had a couple of highly sought after uncommitted studs.
RJM posted:roothog66 posted:The top program coaches get calls like this: "Coach, I need an outfielder in the 2019 class. Whattaya got?"
It actually happens almost exactly like this.
Top travel coaches also make calls like this: Mr. College Coach. I have a kid who wants to play there I believe is an ideal fit. You have to see him play when you're at XYZ tournament.
Even better is when the travel coach is a buddy and/or been feeding the college program for years.
Some of them make calls like that - but not all of them. They (travel coaches) all say they have the contacts to make that call. But the truth is that some do and most don't. You have to figure out who does - and that's where you go.
adbono posted:RJM posted:roothog66 posted:The top program coaches get calls like this: "Coach, I need an outfielder in the 2019 class. Whattaya got?"
It actually happens almost exactly like this.
Top travel coaches also make calls like this: Mr. College Coach. I have a kid who wants to play there I believe is an ideal fit. You have to see him play when you're at XYZ tournament.
Even better is when the travel coach is a buddy and/or been feeding the college program for years.
Some of them make calls like that - but not all of them. They (travel coaches) all say they have the contacts to make that call. But the truth is that some do and most don't. You have to figure out who does - and that's where you go.
I have had a sneaking suspicion for about a year above is true with some of the local guys. If you start to question the coaches on who they talked to about what and when, answer always sounds sort of vague.
Lots of good advice here for sure, especially Midlo's "play for the best team you can that offers you regular playing time." No doubt that playing for a strong travel (or high school) team can help the recruiting process. But back to the OP's original question, if he is good enough, will they find him wherever he plays? I actually believe the answer to this is YES, as long as they are aware of him. If a player can help their program, it is a college coach's job to find him. It is the player's job to reach out to those coaches to make sure they know who he is and are aware of his interest in their programs. If he is good enough, finding a way to make contact shouldn't be too difficult. Then it is a matter of keeping the coaches apprised of when and where he will be playing. At that point it doesn't matter what team he is playing for. If they are truly interested, they will show up to watch him play, wherever that may be. Good luck!
