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334 replies

Drinking on Official Visits

B Bee>1,000+ posts
bear, curious plan
the visiting player is not yet a student at the college, nor member of the baseball team, nor under NCAA substance testing

and as we read on another topic it prolly would be impossible to even find a "one strike and OUT" code of conduct anywhere

you as the "zero tolerance" parent, I'd guess must remove him from his hs team, then after graduation get him a factory job, passing on college - or am I missing something?



skol



ps - I work in a factory, but not as punisment (I don't think)
Last edited by Bee>
B Bear1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Bee>:
bear, curious plan the visiting player is not yet a student at the college, nor member of the baseball team, nor under NCAA substance testing

and as we read on another topic it prolly would be impossible to even find a "one strike and OUT" code of conduct anywhere

you as the "zero tolerance" parent, I'd guess must remove him from his hs team, then after graduation get him a factory job, passing on college - or am I missing something?

skol

ps - I work in a factory, but not as punisment (I don't think)


Bee,

1. I'm not sure of your message that you work in a factory......I work with a Shipyard, (whatever is left of it).

2. I am trying to support a young man (not of my blood, yet love him like family) who was drafted out of HS, drafted again 1st year from HS, ran into a zero tolerance college issue, had a life altering family issue,
and has been overlooked by last years June draft.

What I do, as a baseball man, that cares about the young man, is to try to help? And the network of great baseball men is as deep as it is wide!

3. Young teenagers today try to grow up too fast. In retrospect, 24+, 25+, 26+ y/o, with what's left of a baseball career, long to be younger!

4. Is it ["impossible to even find a "one strike and OUT" code of conduct anywhere"] ??

....It is probably NOT possible to find a college that is NOT zero-tolerant to student-athletes who break the law!

5. Are you missing something?
I have no clue.

However, may I suggest you continue helping your "student" as a parent and find a way to send the message that he/she enter, stay in, and or return to college, and try and graduate with either with a AA or Bachelors.

Good Luck

Bear
O OldVaman500+ posts
Look, so we can end some of the acrimony:

I'm all for it. It probably would have helped.

Oh, you're talking about the kids?

Let them find their own party. They probably won't have to look very hard.

There are so many other things that are more important than this. That this thread got to a second page surprises me.

With all due respect, move along.
AKBaseball6AKBaseball61,000+ posts
Thanks Old VAman. It seems that this issue was taken way too far and everyone has to remember that it is mostly kids like your own sons. You know your sons and you know that they won't likely do this stuff. There are always people out there that will get drunk but most baseball players have good heads on their shoulders and we know when the line is crossed.
B BigWI1,000+ posts
quote:
I should have called, I stopped into Madison WI, several times this summer.


I wish you had, I would have driven up and taken you out for Pizza!

The good news is I expect I will be coming out your way more often now the Kris is going to school out there.

Driving him out on Friday (If there is any GAS)

Won't be able to call you this trip, but will try next time.
Last edited by BigWI
A AHSpitcher17100+ posts
Well heres what i experienced, usually you go to a football game, then go to parties after, there will be drinks there, and your not forced to drink, so its your own decision, but yes there ARE drinks there, it IS a college party, the coaches have no clue about it, but its part of the real world, so if your not gonna drink you wont, if you do you do. Thats just how it is. Its all up to you.
N nd943100+ posts
I think that younger people posting in this thread are going to have a very different opinion then the older people posting. I'm a high school student, and most students have drank at one point or another. It's not just athletes or kids thats not in school, it's drama kids, smart kids, everyone. A little alcohol is a lot different than a little coke or another drug. If you manage your alcohol correctly there shouldn't be a problem. In Europe teens are allowed to drink and they don't seem to be having problems with it. A coach should never drink on a visit, but a player at parties, that's up to him. But like I said, drinking is a natural occurance. If you punished everyone who drank in high school you'd be punishing the majority of the kids.
T theEH1,000+ posts
nd943,
It's called peer pressure, most student's want to fit in to there little group. And do not want to feel like there not part of the crowd.
And yes Drinking is just like other Drug's, It's mind altering.
in fact it is sometime's the worst drug ever made.
And to think that a Parent's View is differant then a HS student's View about underage Drinking and Drug use.
Well maybe the parent's understand what has happened to themselves are other people that they have Known, When they let Drinking and drug's into there live's to a point were they no longer had control of there own life.
Spiraling down to the Bottom of depth's and despair.

On a lighter note.
You and you alone are Responseable for your action's.
Live with the consequences.
Are Learn from other's that may have something to say about this subject. EH
C Christopher_91100+ posts
I havent read the whole thread only a few posts here and there but I'd like to add that drinking in High School can mess up your future even worse than drinkin in college my cousin was going to football camps and being looked at by Glen Mason of the Gophers and he had a party on homecoming night and got cought and got a minor next thing you know he quits football and parties every weekend. He ended up with 4 minors by the end of the year. Now he transfered to a different school and transfered back and its a big mess but he's gettin his head back on straight now but his college dreams of football have long since gone out the window
A agallan10+ posts
I had overnight baseball visits at more than 5 schools and at all but one I was offered drinks. I didn't end up drinking, because first of all I didn't drink at all in high school and secondly because I didn't want to even take the chance that by some fluke the coach found out about the incident. However, that doesn't mean that those players who took me to the parties are bad kids who aren't worthy of my presence at the school as many of you have implied. It is college and for better or worse that is the atmosphere that college students live in. My school's unofficial motto is "where fun comes to die", and yet there is a lot of underage drinking.
Last edited by agallan
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Ok I don't think drinking should happen on official visits and I really don't see the appeal of drinking at all - I have tried it on a few occasions and I just don't see the appeal in it. I have never been drunk and don't plan on it.

Now that being said I don't think the coach is completely at fault if it happens. You have to look back at the parents of the recruit and player first. Drinking on the visit probably isn't the first time those kids drank.

I went to college and played baseball and went to parties all the time. My closest buddies on the team (there were 5 of us) did not drink at all and we went to the parties and were still popular. You can go to parties and not have a drink. If I was in charge of a recruiting visit back in the day I would have taken the kid to a party. I had fun at parties (although I never drank) and would want a recruit to see how much fun is at parties. If he said anything about drinking I would tell him my views and that I did not drink and if he chose to drink I was not going to babysit him that night and the coach would be notified. Now it's his choice. When I went to a party I was never pressured into trying to drink. People did ask me if I wanted something but when I told them I didn't drink the usual response was "sweet that's more for me".

I hope to be a college coach in the coming weeks and I already have my views on drinking (although I have to go with what the head coach has established).

I will not tolerate it at all by anyone under the age of 21.

If you are over the age of 21 then it is your choice if you do it.

Under 21 you drink during the off season then you will be punished - during the season you will be removed from the team.

Over 21 and you drink during the season you will be removed from the team as well.

If I put you in charge of a recruit (and I hope I pick good kids to lead the recruit) and there is drinking the player is off the team because that is not the image I want for my team, school and what I endorse as a coach.

I am not going to go out and try and follow my players to catch them drinking. They are all legal adults and are responsible for their decisions. If they can drink and get away with it then so be it but if they get caught then I will punish them as I see fit.

The season is what you practice and play for. If you cannot say no to alcohol for the 4 months or so it takes for the season then you have a problem.
T theEH1,000+ posts
Coach2709, I agree to a point.
I believe that players should be responseable,
And be held accountable for there action's.
But not to the point of being kicked off the team for a first and maybe only mistake.
I believe in second chances, After punishment of course.
But I would like to help them to understand there action's and the effects that they could have on there life.
To lose everything, without the possibility of redeemtion.

I don't know, I would like a second chance sometimes.
EH
W windmill100+ posts
Situation exists probably just about everywhere, but as stated multiple times - kid has to take responsibility.

One visit Junior went on, team took him to an off-campus party. get there, immediately gets offered a beer, declines, saying he can't b/c of his medication. gets asked what he has, tells them, gets these replies:

Player #1: Man, that's a shame, my mom has Rheumatoid Arthritis - that su<ks.

Player #2: Yeah, really, my brother has Crohn's disease -- that REALLY su<ks.

Player #3: "Oh, man, that's great, we have a designated driver" and tosses Junior the keys!!
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Hey sorry for not getting back with people sooner but I am at my moms house and she has dial up so I try to stay off here because I have no patience.

EH you make some good points and I really won't disagree with you but I can't also really agree either. When reading your response something comes to my mind about mixed messages that coaches at different levels send (I hope we don't really get off topic here but I think it sort of applies).

Why in high school do you hear a lot of coaches talk about the players as "young men" and in college you hear a lot of coaches talk about the players as "boys"? One implies being responsible for your actions and knowing the difference between right and wrong while the other implies not really knowing the difference and should be given the chance to learn.

As for the underage drinking I can always back up my rule with "it's against the law". If a player (regardless of age) breaks into a store and steals stuff or rapes a female would you give that player a second chance so he could learn from his mistake? Now the flipside to that would be so is getting a speeding ticket - all of those are against the law so where do you draw the line between educating vs. eliminating because of serious trouble.

It's a tough spot to be in but I feel if you post and let your players and their parents know the rules then they are now responsible for the decisions they make. They know something is against the rules and what the consequences are now they are responsible for their decision. If they have to learn from that mistake then what else will you have to teach that player?

Honestly I have changed my rules over the years. I used to can players when they got caught drinking but now I make it a school decision. It has actually became the basis for the school policy as to how to handle alcohol and tobacco offenses for our school in this upcoming school year. So in my case the school has taken the decision away from me and other coaches.

Lastly if a college player who is probably getting part of his education paid for through a scholarship and other award lined up by the coach (probably) has to have a drink during the season - has a problem and needs help. To me his parents are the only ones who can provide that help. If he cleans up and proves he has changed then I will consider a second chance but until then I have 30 - 40 other players I am responsible for.
B Bee>1,000+ posts
quote:
by c-2709: if a college player .. has to have a drink during the season - (he) has a problem and needs help... his parents are the only ones who can provide that help. If he cleans up and proves he has changed then I will consider a second chance but until then I have 30 - 40 other players I am responsible for.
if you indeed feel you are "resposible" for managing the day to day off field behavior of 40 guys w/50%+ being over 21 ...
that's either admirable or crazy Confused

exactly when will you have time to teach, coach & play baseball?


re parents: I'm thinking not to many parents are involved in the day to day management of their adult children - - exception, Ray Romano Wink



are players also in jeopardy for violating fish & game laws?
or do you have an "A" list, like robbery, rape, and a 21 yr old having a beer at Pizza Hut?
Last edited by Bee>
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
quote:
are players also in jeopardy for violating fish & game laws?
or do you have an "A" list, like robbery, rape, and a 21 yr old having a beer at Pizza Hut?


Bee not sure I get what you are implying here and with other parts of your post. Could you explain a little more - thanks.

EH that is my point completely. I am not going to enforce something that they do not know. If I don't have a rule about drinking then I can't do anything about it. If I have a rule then I have to do something. A kid or their parents don't agree they can go play for someone else.
B Bee>1,000+ posts
coach, I tried to lead you toward reaching some obvious conclusions, but ...

ok, so before giving yourself high fives, consider the following


the issue(s) we're discussing here have been "issues" for a looong time -
IF/WHEN you land a job as a college assistant you'll find

a) you are their employee

b) your university as an institution has ALREADY established policies in this area

c) they rely on "entry level staff" to follow the policies .. not to re-invent them

d) those policies are passed DOWN the chain of command thru the athletic department to the Head Coaches, who in turn spell them out to the assistants

e) assistant coaches are at the very bottom of that chain of command -

f) policies are NOT passed UP the chain of command

g) an assistant's stance on an issue is irrelevant unless it's also the stance of the university .. in which case it isn't really his stance, it's the school's

h) privacy laws protect most student info

i) I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that privacy policy would trump the crusade of an entry level staff member to notify parents that HE diagnosed their 21 yr old kid as needing substance counseling for having a beer at the Wing Place while watching the NBA finals.


however, I'd back ya on counseling IF he were watching "world cup futbol" & drinking sweet tea



j) and, of course .. wishing you the best Smile
Last edited by Bee>
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
Wow glad to see you really didn't pay any attention to any of my posts. I pretty much hit on most of the important stuff you listed.


quote:
Originally posted by Bee>:
coach, I tried to lead you toward reaching some obvious conclusions, but ...

ok, so before giving yourself high fives, consider the following


the issue(s) we're discussing here have been "issues" for a looong time -
IF/WHEN you land a job as a college assistant you'll find

a) you are their employee

*********YES THAT IS CORRECT***********

b) your university as an institution has ALREADY established policies in this area

*****CAN YOU GUARANTEE EVERY SCHOOL HAS A POLICY? THE SCHOOL I AM INTERVIEWING WITH DOESN'T HAVE ONE IN PLACE. THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS MYSELF AND THE HEAD COACH HAS TALKED ABOUT. LAST YEAR WAS HIS FIRST AND HE IS RELEASING ABOUT HALF THE ROSTER BECAUSE OF DRUG AND ALCOHOL PROBLEMS. HE SAID THE SCHOOL WILL LET HIM DO AS HE SEES FIT.******

c) they rely on "entry level staff" to follow the policies .. not to re-invent them

**********AS I STATED EARLIER THAT IN THE HIGH SCHOOL I MIGHT BE LEAVING DID NOT HAVE ANY POLICIES IN PLACE. THE NEW IDEAS THAT HAVE TURNED INTO POLICY CAME FROM ME - "ENTRY LEVEL STAFF". IF THERE IS NO POLICY BUT ALL OF A SUDDEN THERE IS ONE IT HAD TO BE FROM SOMEONE.**********

d) those policies are passed DOWN the chain of command thru the athletic department to the Head Coaches, who in turn spell them out to the assistants

*********A GOOD HEAD COACH WILL LISTEN TO HIS ASSISTANTS. IF I HAVE AN IDEA ON A POLICY ON ANYTHING I AM GOING TO PRESENT IT TO THE HEAD COACH AND THEN IT'S UP TO HIM IF HE WANTS TO FOLLOW IT OR NOT. IF HE FOLLOWS IT THEN I GUESS IT DID GO UP THE CHAIN.********

e) assistant coaches are at the very bottom of that chain of command -

***********YES YOU ARE CORRECT BUT STILL A LINK THE CHAIN AND SHOULD BE LISTENED TO************

f) policies are NOT passed UP the chain of command

*********POLICIES ARE HANDED DOWN THE CHAIN OF COMMAND BUT IDEAS SHOULD BE ABLE TO GO UP THE CHAIN OF COMMAND AND MAYBE ONE DAY COME DOWN AS POLICY******

g) an assistant's stance on an issue is irrelevant unless it's also the stance of the university .. in which case it isn't really his stance, it's the school's

************PUBLICLY YOU ARE CORRECT BECAUSE THE ASSISTANT SHOULD FOLLOW WHAT THE BOSS WANTS. BEHIND CLOSED DOORS HE SHOULD BE ABLE TO DISAGREE WITH THE STATUS QUO**********

h) privacy laws protect most student info

***********NO IDEA WHERE YOU GOT ANYTHING FROM WHAT I PUT TO MENTION THIS BUT I WILL AGREE WITH YOU********

i) I'm going out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that privacy policy would trump the crusade of an entry level staff member to notify parents that HE diagnosed their 21 yr old kid as needing substance counseling for having a beer at the Wing Place while watching the NBA finals.

************WELL I DO HAVE A MASTERS DEGREE IN COUNSELING SO I WOULD HAVE A GOOD IDEA IF SOMEONE HAS A PROBLEM. ALSO I HAVE A SISTER WHO IS GETTING CLEAN AND SOBER SO I HAVE ALSO SEEN HOW IT CAN CHANGE A PERSON. BY THE WAY GUESS HOW ALCOHOLISM GETS STARTED???? BY DRINKING ALCOHOL. NOW DON'T GET ALL UPTIGHT AND THINK I AM SAYING THAT JUST BECAUSE YOU DRINK YOU WILL BECOME AN ALCOHOLIC. MY POINT IS WHY DRINK DURING THE SEASON? HOW WILL IT BENEFIT YOUR PERFORMANCE? IF YOU HAVE THE CONTROL TO NOT DRINK DURING THE SEASON THEN YOU SHOULD NOT DO IT. BUT IF YOU CANNOT STOP YOURSELF FROM DRINKING THEN YOU HAVE A PROBLEM.*******


however, I'd back ya on counseling IF he were watching "world cup futbol" & drinking sweet tea

*********YEAH FUTBOL IS PRETTY LAME*********



j) and, of course .. wishing you the best Smile


Please don't take the all caps as "shouting". I just wanted to show the difference in what you put versus what I put.

I am not as **** as you think but policy is policy regardless of who comes up with it.

I wish you the best as well.
Last edited by coach2709
B Bee>1,000+ posts
quote:
by C2709: THE SCHOOL I AM INTERVIEWING WITH DOESN'T HAVE ONE (policy) IN PLACE. THAT IS ONE OF THE THINGS MYSELF AND THE HEAD COACH HAS TALKED ABOUT.
hmm, a college w/no student conduct code or discipline policies ...
sounds interesting, you may indeed have your hands full, especially w/no apparent support from your administration.


quote:
by c2709: DELETED by the BEE>
sounds like someone will have a busy summer recruiting.

good luck, it could be a tough sell as many players/parents would hesitate committing to an admitted party school atmosphere, governed by an administration w/few or no rules

C2709, you have a PM
Last edited by Bee>
coach2709coach270910,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Walawala:
coach2709,

I dont know where you plan on or are coaching right now but if every kid who drank and used tabacco during the season got kicked off my team, there would be no team.

I think some of you older people are being a little bit naive. College student athletes are adults capable for making descisions for themselves. At some point the parents and coaches have to stop making all the descisions for them. If they make a poor choice and get in trouble with the school or law, or their athletic/academic performance suffers because of it, then that is something they have to live with and take responsibility for. Its part of growing up.

I cant imagine there being a competitive D1 baseball team where nobody on the team used alcohol, tobacco, or even drugs.

If you want to run 9 choir boys out there you might go 0-56.


How old do you think I am and exactly what is your definition of old is? I would also like to know how old you are if you don't mind. To get the ball rolling I am only 33 years old. Although I am no longer a young guy I am by no means "old".

You said that
quote:
College student athletes are adults capable for making descisions for themselves. At some point the parents and coaches have to stop making all the descisions for them. If they make a poor choice and get in trouble with the school or law, or their athletic/academic performance suffers because of it, then that is something they have to live with and take responsibility for. Its part of growing up.
and I believe that supports my case. If it is a rule you cannot drink during season nor visits and you do then you made an adult decision and have to suffer the consequences of it. If it's stated you are removed from the team then the player chose to remove themselves from the team.

Do you honestly think no school in America doesn't have policies like this? Do you think the coaching staffs and schools of the 8 teams going to the College World Series don't have some sort of no drinking policy?

I know college students are going to drink and do drugs and all kinds of stuff that would make good parents upset and I am not going to go sneaking around the campus and outlying area trying to find them doing the stuff. If they choose to do it then they have to suffe the consequences.

It is about choices and having rules. As Bee has stated what if a guy goes to Pizza Hut to eat some wings, watch the NCAA tournament and drink a pitcher - he better hope I don't walk in on him because we would be in season.

If you really look into all college programs you will see the drinking policies - regardless if they are from the school or coach - are not something new.
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