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Tonight I decided to make about a 30-45 minute trip down the road to watch game 2 in one of the state's championship series and was treated to one heck of a game.  Two teams ranked in the top 50 in the country (according to PG's rankings), the home team in a must win situation fighting to end the season with a championship to honor a teammate who was killed in an car accident before the season began the other team starting a freshman on the mound all in front of a crowd with not many seats to be found (including the bleacher the school brought in for the occasion and the softball bleachers being repurposed for seats behind the right field fence) and many more standing.  Game ended with the home team winning 2-1 in 10 innings on a run scoring on a bad throw by the SS.

I had to leave somewhere around the 8th or 9th, once I got home I was looking to find the score only to find out that the winning team's starter threw all 10 innings.  143 pitches all after pitching Friday to get them to the championship series.  I get that it was a big game, that he didn't want to come out of the game and the kid is a senior who can rest all summer (he has signed with a Div.1 school, I think as an infielder), but still 143 pitches? It really has kind of ruined what was a great game.

The freshman on the other team pitched a great 6 innings, had to come out after that point dealing with what appeared to be a blister.

 

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As much as I rail against pitch count I could possibly agree with 146 pitches in 10 innings for my son on the follow conditions:

1) that pc / inning was averaging 15 pitches with no high pitch count inning over 25.

2) The game in which he pitched 146 pitches was toward the end of the season so that the pitcher has had time to work himself up to that load

3) that the pitcher had minimum 4 days rest previously.

4) the pitcher wasn't used as a catcher.  

5) The pitcher showed or indicated no signs of discomfort throughout the game. 

You can't judge circumstances on one situation. You have to be able to look at the big picture. When did the kid pitch last? How much? When is he expected to pitch again? How much? 

If he's throwing 143 pitches per game every four or five days there's an issue. If it's a one time thing to get over a hurdle, it's a good weather day, the kid feels strong and his mechanics remain solid, no problem.

gamecock303 posted:

Tthe home team in a must win situation fighting to end the season with a championship to honor a teammate who was killed in an car accident before the season began

 

Given these circumstances, my kid would have probably stayed on the mound until his arm fell off - then he would have tried to pitch with the other one.

Sometimes you take risks.  You have to decide how much something really matters to you. The pitcher and coach felt it was worth the risk.  It's hard to judge without standing in their shoes.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did everyone miss the part where it said he threw the day before also??  Sorry, but this is probably the worst case of pitcher abuse that I've heard.  143 and 10 innings is one thing....but throwing the day before??? 

I agree. The coach stretched out the player because he figured he wasnt going to pitch in college, thats the worst abuse I have ever heard of, all players get injured, its ALL accumulative for everyone. 

 

Last edited by TPM
lionbaseball posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did everyone miss the part where it said he threw the day before also??  Sorry, but this is probably the worst case of pitcher abuse that I've heard.  143 and 10 innings is one thing....but throwing the day before??? 

My son would have NEVER taken the mound.  He knows how to fake a sore arm.  

If you think it is best to not pitch, that's your right.  However if your conviction is that strong be man enough to tell your coach and teammates.

Rob T posted:
lionbaseball posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did everyone miss the part where it said he threw the day before also??  Sorry, but this is probably the worst case of pitcher abuse that I've heard.  143 and 10 innings is one thing....but throwing the day before??? 

My son would have NEVER taken the mound.  He knows how to fake a sore arm.  

If you think it is best to not pitch, that's your right.  However if your conviction is that strong be man enough to tell your coach and teammates.

Sorry, but if the coach is going to be an a-hole and have a kid throw back to back days with that amount of pitches then he doesn't deserve it.   No pitcher in high school should have to worry about pitch count.  

And in my case, I did talk to my son's coach before the season to discuss maximum pitch count and he blew me off so to hell with him.  

 

lionbaseball posted:
Rob T posted:
lionbaseball posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did everyone miss the part where it said he threw the day before also??  Sorry, but this is probably the worst case of pitcher abuse that I've heard.  143 and 10 innings is one thing....but throwing the day before??? 

My son would have NEVER taken the mound.  He knows how to fake a sore arm.  

If you think it is best to not pitch, that's your right.  However if your conviction is that strong be man enough to tell your coach and teammates.

Sorry, but if the coach is going to be an a-hole and have a kid throw back to back days with that amount of pitches then he doesn't deserve it.   No pitcher in high school should have to worry about pitch count.  

And in my case, I did talk to my son's coach before the season to discuss maximum pitch count and he blew me off so to hell with him.  

 

Then just tell him you aren't going to pitch. Obviously you don't think highly of him so it shouldn't be difficult.

Even if you feel the coach doesn't deserve honesty, your teammates do.

Rob T posted:
lionbaseball posted:
Rob T posted:
lionbaseball posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did everyone miss the part where it said he threw the day before also??  Sorry, but this is probably the worst case of pitcher abuse that I've heard.  143 and 10 innings is one thing....but throwing the day before??? 

My son would have NEVER taken the mound.  He knows how to fake a sore arm.  

If you think it is best to not pitch, that's your right.  However if your conviction is that strong be man enough to tell your coach and teammates.

Sorry, but if the coach is going to be an a-hole and have a kid throw back to back days with that amount of pitches then he doesn't deserve it.   No pitcher in high school should have to worry about pitch count.  

And in my case, I did talk to my son's coach before the season to discuss maximum pitch count and he blew me off so to hell with him.  

 

Then just tell him you aren't going to pitch. Obviously you don't think highly of him so it shouldn't be difficult.

Even if you feel the coach doesn't deserve honesty, your teammates do.

See, I put the responsibility on the coach.  The team deserves better than that.  So if the coach isn't warming another pitcher between innings in preparation to relieve  my son, that's on the coach.   When my son reaches a pre-determine pitch count he comes out.  Not my son's fault nor his problem.  How he comes out of the game (faking an arm soreness or just telling the coach I'm done) is irrelevant. 

lionbaseball posted

See, I put the responsibility on the coach.  The team deserves better than that.  So if the coach isn't warming another pitcher between innings in preparation to relieve  my son, that's on the coach.   When my son reaches a pre-determine pitch count he comes out.  Not my son's fault nor his problem.  How he comes out of the game (faking an arm soreness or just telling the coach I'm done) is irrelevant. 

It's not irrelevant.  One is honest one is not.

One says, "Coach, I don't think you are doing a good job."

One says - well, I guess it says that the pitcher wants to avoid the subject.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Did everyone miss the part where it said he threw the day before also??  Sorry, but this is probably the worst case of pitcher abuse that I've heard.  143 and 10 innings is one thing....but throwing the day before??? 

 

" I had to leave somewhere around the 8th or 9th, once I got home I was looking to find the score only to find out that the winning team's starter threw all 10 innings.  143 pitches all after pitching Friday to get them to the championship series"

 

The OP posted on 5-19 at 2: am  that he saw the game that night, he said the pitcher threw on Friday, I am assuming it was  Friday 5-13,  4-5 days rest between starts?   Big difference than back to back days,  I must have missed the pitching the day before part ? 

Rob T posted:
lionbaseball posted

See, I put the responsibility on the coach.  The team deserves better than that.  So if the coach isn't warming another pitcher between innings in preparation to relieve  my son, that's on the coach.   When my son reaches a pre-determine pitch count he comes out.  Not my son's fault nor his problem.  How he comes out of the game (faking an arm soreness or just telling the coach I'm done) is irrelevant. 

It's not irrelevant.  One is honest one is not.

One says, "Coach, I don't think you are doing a good job."

One says - well, I guess it says that the pitcher wants to avoid the subject.

I'm sure we have all been honest when our wives asked us "Honey, does this make me look fat?" 

 

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