High School Cuts

I can only imagine the conversations and reactions you have/get. I knew our HS coaches fairly well and was privy to insight on some of the types of situations after the fact. I suspect most are hard to have although necessary. Others easy, either based on lack of talent or attitude. I know of one kid who was kept on the team  because of his love of the game and great attitude.  Those have to be pretty cool to see work out.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

I can only imagine the conversations and reactions you have/get. I knew our HS coaches fairly well and was privy to insight on some of the types of situations after the fact. I suspect most are hard to have although necessary. Others easy, either based on lack of talent or attitude. I know of one kid who was kept on the team  because of his love of the game and great attitude.  Those have to be pretty cool to see work out.

 

 

..exactly right.  It's "good attitude/good kid/distinct lack of talent" that is toughest.  And that's what we had quite a bit of this year.  It is awesome when one of those guys is able to make up the talent gap and it works out.  Sometimes, it's a matter of numbers from year to year whether they will get that chance.

It's much easier to have the conversation when there are attitude or commitment problems.  Although, it's even more rewarding when we can be an influence to those young men.

Its the dads who take it the worst

Seriously.....if you dealt with them as thoughtfully as you did a when you talked a certain random poster with single digit posts on this board down off the ledge he was on a couple of years ago, im betting you did take it worse than the kids did. Which just further proves what a great guy you are

I would imagine that looking a kid in the eye and telling him he isnt good enough to play baseball anymore has got to be unbelievably tough. I would only worry if someone started finding that job easy.

The last HC at my sons old HS many times kept the players who were good kids and the team genuinely liked, sometimes in another role besides player. He has kept kids that are catchers, but he makes it clear that there only role will be in the bull pen, and they won't be on the playing field. Or if not a catcher they will be protecting the Bullpen catcher when a pitcher is warming up in the bull pen.

Most players usually take him up on this option. They get listed on the roster. If they are a Senior they will be listed on varsity, if they are a Junior or Sophomore they will be listed on JV. Most of the time all freshman make the freshman team unless they are a danger to themselves or others. The freshman classes are not so large that they usually require many cuts. But these are kids who seem pretty committed, they do the off season stuff, get in the weight room and try. It is pretty likely if my youngest continued to play that he would have been one of these players.

He has moved on now and there is a new coach at the HS, and I do not know his philosophy.

cabbagedad posted:

I had to cut some yesterday.  Did not sleep well last night.  Sometimes I wonder if the kids take it harder or I do.  I think I've seen it go both ways.

I had some kids with similar situations this year so I talked to some in a small group.  Of course, I'm supposed to be the one consoling and encouraging.  One of the kids getting the news had the best, most upbeat attitude... "well, I kinda knew it was a longshot since I hadn't played in a while.."  he went on and kept the positive vibe through the conversation.  Just by the way he carried himself, he did a better job than I did at helping the others take it with chin up.  His attitude helped me, too.

Later, I offered that if he wanted to be involved in another capacity, we'd love to have him.

I applaud you for having those conversations. It's better than getting the news via not seeing your name on a list and subsequently, getting no feedback. 

threeunassisted posted:

Its the dads who take it the worst

Bingo! They lost the prestige of being Bobby's dad.

My son was cut from basketball soph year after being the starting point guard on the freshman team. He rationalized it the first day. And adjusted emotionally a couple of days letter. 

He was cut for missing all the optional off season workouts. The basketball coach didn't like multi sport athletes. My son was trying to play three. 

My son reminded me I once told him if he wanted to play college baseball he might have to drop a sport to spend more time on baseball. The basketball coach made the hard choice for him. 

Baseball was the focus. I think it was because I played and his sister was playing college softball. It would have been hard to quit soccer. It was his best sport. But I think there was an ounce more passion for basketball over baseball. That winter he played in the rec league. So did JV and varsity bench players. He was better than all of them.

hshuler posted:

cabbagedad posted:

I had to cut some yesterday.  Did not sleep well last night.  Sometimes I wonder if the kids take it harder or I do.  I think I've seen it go both ways.

I had some kids with similar situations this year so I talked to some in a small group.  Of course, I'm supposed to be the one consoling and encouraging.  One of the kids getting the news had the best, most upbeat attitude... "well, I kinda knew it was a longshot since I hadn't played in a while.."  he went on and kept the positive vibe through the conversation.  Just by the way he carried himself, he did a better job than I did at helping the others take it with chin up.  His attitude helped me, too.

Later, I offered that if he wanted to be involved in another capacity, we'd love to have him.

I applaud you for having those conversations. It's better than getting the news via not seeing your name on a list and subsequently, getting no feedback. 

Exactly!  That's how it was done at my son's school last year....I saw it go down on twitter and was like REALLY, THAT is how the kids find out...oh my!  There is a new coach this year and I really hope he takes your approach.  Sometimes the game is done with the kids, but the kids aren't done with the game, and it's just tough all around.

threeunassisted posted:

Its the dads who take it the worst

 

Seriously.....if you dealt with them as thoughtfully as you did a when you talked a certain random poster with single digit posts on this board down off the ledge he was on a couple of years ago, im betting you did take it worse than the kids did. Which just further proves what a great guy you are

 

I would imagine that looking a kid in the eye and telling him he isnt good enough to play baseball anymore has got to be unbelievably tough. I would only worry if someone started finding that job easy.

Hey 3U,

Thanks for the kind words.  Getting the update when your son came out victorious in a loud way in response to getting cut was one of the best posts I have had the pleasure of reading.  Continued best to him!

Thanks, CD, for taking the time to do this with compassion for the kids. It's very challenging, but important for all involved. 

One problem I think some coaches have is that they were never cut themselves at that adolescent age. Getting cut is a different deal then than it is for a college kid or someone older. 

It is never easy to share news players do not want to hear. Does not always make you the most popular person, but hopefully they will learn from it and make adjustments.  HS HC is not the easiest job I am sure...since HS is usually the begining of reality for most players as to whether they have developed the skills necessary to contribute at that level. My hat goes off to you for dealing with all the ups and downs of HS baseball and may GOD bless you for your patience and perserverence!!!

Do you ever run into the parents being the problem?  I have seen it at all ages of travel ball. The parents tell their kids they are a shoe in to make the team, coach would be stupid not to take you, you are THE BEST one out here....etc. Then the kid is cut, and there is anger from the child, like something that was rightfully his was stolen.  

Sometimes I wonder if parents of young players really understand the level of competition that is out there these days?  I know I was stunned to see the talent some young players have these days.  

Cabbage, as the parent of a cut high schooler, as long as you spend enough time to make sure the kids know why they were cut and what options they have then you've done your job. I'd almost say you should ask the kid what they will tell their parents (assuming the parents care) to make sure they have it straight. To this day I kind of feel I was left hanging with a lot of questions. The reasons conveyed and circumstances never added up. No matter, son is now playing in college.

I applaud the coaches that take the time to speak to the players one on one that don't make the team.  But not sure that means they were "cut".  Most were never on the team.  It's a tryout.

But this thread is leaning to the mushy side inferring it is an obligation of the coach to comfort, console and give an explanation to each kid who didn't make the team.  They didn't make the team because they didn't make the team better.  It's OK to post the roster on the wall, twitter, website etc., and then the efforts of the coaches are on making the team better with the kids on the roster.

CD kudos to you. You can't keep everyone happy. Your compassion for players is just that. Bottom line is HS baseball is about winning. In my prior post I addressed what a freshman should do and prepare for.

Preparation was the key for my son being able to make the team. By no means is he stand out...yet. He has been blessed with a power left handed stick, good coaching and access to top notch facilities in so.cal. He was able to get in 6th period baseball, believe it or not, by me showing the head varsity coach game clips. After that it was a go. There are nights where I don't want to go to the diamond or facility, but I know how far he has come along now, and it's full speed ahead. The freshman is a cage rat. Went through this before and there was no way I was sending my son up there with butter knives. Had him play varsity summer ball and 16u travel ball on Sundays. He was prepared and ready before freshman orientation.

Parents need to know things move fast in HS sports and we all know how important first impressions are. You have to give the player a chance to succeed. Don't expect desired results if the work is not being put in. It's not fair to any parties involved. It takes parents that get it and more importantly, players with passion, dedication, hunger, and commitment.☺

I firmly believe and I tell all of our coaches at my school that if making cuts ever becomes easy then it's time to give it up.  Sometimes the decision is easy because there is an obvious lack of skill but to lose the compassion and humanity involved there is no way that should ever happen.  If a kid is going to give me 3 days of their time and work their tail end off then they have earned the right for me to look them in the eye and explain why they are not good enough to be on the team.  I think posting a list is pretty weak and is the easy way out.  

They may be kids but they are still human beings.  No it is not my job to comfort and console them.  My job is to create a team and help their parents (and in some cases do the job for the parents) teach them how to become good young men while winning games.  It's not to give them a shoulder to cry on when they get cut but as a human being I can give them time in the privacy of my office to allow them to compose themselves since they just received - in their limited perspective - the worst news of their life.

I've told this story before but I think it's appropriate again.  My first year as a head coach I was 22 or 23 years old and knew everything.  I was in my second year teaching and I had this kid in my class who loved baseball.  He and I would talk baseball quite a bit.  Try outs happen and after the third day I told the guys I would post a list on my classroom door of who made the team.  So here it is before first period and the hallways are full of kids and there is a group of guys at my door looking at their fate.  The kid I had in class had all his gear with him, looked at the list and broke down crying in the hallway in front of all those other kids.  To the best of my knowledge nobody made fun of him or gave him a hard time because it was truly a school of great kids but as a teacher and adult I should not be the reason something like this happens.  I learned a valuable lesson that day.  That kid hardly spoke to me after that.  I don't believe he talked baseball to me as a way to suck up to get on the team.  He genuinely loved baseball and I may have helped destroy that love by not handling it better.  The last thing we should ever do is destroy the love of baseball (or any sport) in kids.

By meeting one on one I can explain fully why they were not good enough, what to work on and tell them to come back out next year.  Yeah when you post a list everyone says if you have questions to come see the coach but nobody ever does and they never go back out the next year.  I've cut kids and some have made the team the next year because they worked on what they needed to.  Also, on the rare occasion I just gave them the worst news ever I can keep them in my office until they compose themselves so they can leave with dignity.  If I had talked to that kid one on one maybe I could have saved our relationship and / or offered him  a spot on the team in some capacity.

Funny story though - one year I had a kid I cut who was a senior.  He actually came out his Junior year but he left practice in the middle of the second day and never came back.  He actually came up to me and said "coach I don't think this is for me, thank you for the opportunity" and left.  I thought that was pretty classy.  The next year he makes it through tryouts and he's the only senior I'm cutting so I call him into my office first.  I tell him and no reaction from him.  He leaves the office.  I go through the rest of the team letting them know if they made it, got cut or got a week's extension.  After it's over I walk out of my office and that senior is still there.  He walks up to me and says "coach I don't agree with your decision and I want to be on the team".  I was a little shocked and pretty much said the same thing I had told him earlier.  He said he didn't agree with that and wanted to be on the team.  So now I'm starting to get a little ticked off.  We go back and forth for about 5 minutes until this older guy starts walking up.  I think to myself great now I'm going to have to get into it with his dad.  Dad walks up and listens for a little bit.  Then he looks at his son and says "boy he has told you why you didn't make the team.  You should have known you can't come out in your last year and expect to make the team.  Now let's go home because your momma has dinner ready. Coach you have a good evening." He turned around and left.  I still laugh about it today.

Hitting: "Bottom line is HS baseball is about winning."

Is it really? Isn't this just a bit of a generality? I don't agree with such a wide, broad, general all-encompassing conclusion. Different HS's and different coaches bring a multitude of philosophies to their jobs - some are win-at-all costs, some are development focused, some don't have the student body which is capable of producing winning teams yet want to give their boys a chance to play HS sports, some actually use the diamond to teach life lessons (and winning is only a small component).

Winning may be better than losing; but, winning is not the yardstick by which to measure a HS baseball experience (IMO).

Nicely said Goose!

 If winning was all there was to it, I can think of a lot of programs that would stop it immediately.

Goosegg posted:

Hitting: "Bottom line is HS baseball is about winning."

Is it really? Isn't this just a bit of a generality? I don't agree with such a wide, broad, general all-encompassing conclusion. Different HS's and different coaches bring a multitude of philosophies to their jobs - some are win-at-all costs, some are development focused, some don't have the student body which is capable of producing winning teams yet want to give their boys a chance to play HS sports, some actually use the diamond to teach life lessons (and winning is only a small component).

Winning may be better than losing; but, winning is not the yardstick by which to measure a HS baseball experience (IMO).

 

While all those things may be components of a HS program, emphasised in various degrees by different coaches and programs, if winning is not the goal, there is something wrong with the program.  We're talking about a HS varsity sport, not T-Ball. 

coach2709 posted:

I firmly believe and I tell all of our coaches at my school that if making cuts ever becomes easy then it's time to give it up.  Sometimes the decision is easy because there is an obvious lack of skill but to lose the compassion and humanity involved there is no way that should ever happen.  If a kid is going to give me 3 days of their time and work their tail end off then they have earned the right for me to look them in the eye and explain why they are not good enough to be on the team.  I think posting a list is pretty weak and is the easy way out.  

They may be kids but they are still human beings.  No it is not my job to comfort and console them.  My job is to create a team and help their parents (and in some cases do the job for the parents) teach them how to become good young men while winning games.  It's not to give them a shoulder to cry on when they get cut but as a human being I can give them time in the privacy of my office to allow them to compose themselves since they just received - in their limited perspective - the worst news of their life.

I've told this story before but I think it's appropriate again.  My first year as a head coach I was 22 or 23 years old and knew everything.  I was in my second year teaching and I had this kid in my class who loved baseball.  He and I would talk baseball quite a bit.  Try outs happen and after the third day I told the guys I would post a list on my classroom door of who made the team.  So here it is before first period and the hallways are full of kids and there is a group of guys at my door looking at their fate.  The kid I had in class had all his gear with him, looked at the list and broke down crying in the hallway in front of all those other kids.  To the best of my knowledge nobody made fun of him or gave him a hard time because it was truly a school of great kids but as a teacher and adult I should not be the reason something like this happens.  I learned a valuable lesson that day.  That kid hardly spoke to me after that.  I don't believe he talked baseball to me as a way to suck up to get on the team.  He genuinely loved baseball and I may have helped destroy that love by not handling it better.  The last thing we should ever do is destroy the love of baseball (or any sport) in kids.

By meeting one on one I can explain fully why they were not good enough, what to work on and tell them to come back out next year.  Yeah when you post a list everyone says if you have questions to come see the coach but nobody ever does and they never go back out the next year.  I've cut kids and some have made the team the next year because they worked on what they needed to.  Also, on the rare occasion I just gave them the worst news ever I can keep them in my office until they compose themselves so they can leave with dignity.  If I had talked to that kid one on one maybe I could have saved our relationship and / or offered him  a spot on the team in some capacity.

Funny story though - one year I had a kid I cut who was a senior.  He actually came out his Junior year but he left practice in the middle of the second day and never came back.  He actually came up to me and said "coach I don't think this is for me, thank you for the opportunity" and left.  I thought that was pretty classy.  The next year he makes it through tryouts and he's the only senior I'm cutting so I call him into my office first.  I tell him and no reaction from him.  He leaves the office.  I go through the rest of the team letting them know if they made it, got cut or got a week's extension.  After it's over I walk out of my office and that senior is still there.  He walks up to me and says "coach I don't agree with your decision and I want to be on the team".  I was a little shocked and pretty much said the same thing I had told him earlier.  He said he didn't agree with that and wanted to be on the team.  So now I'm starting to get a little ticked off.  We go back and forth for about 5 minutes until this older guy starts walking up.  I think to myself great now I'm going to have to get into it with his dad.  Dad walks up and listens for a little bit.  Then he looks at his son and says "boy he has told you why you didn't make the team.  You should have known you can't come out in your last year and expect to make the team.  Now let's go home because your momma has dinner ready. Coach you have a good evening." He turned around and left.  I still laugh about it today.

Coach,  I thought about your story (you shared it in another thread about a year ago) as soon as I started reading this thread.  I'm glad that you added your perspective to this post.  In my opinion your philosophy on this topic is about as good as it gets.

JDB

Goosegg posted:

Hitting: "Bottom line is HS baseball is about winning."

Is it really? Isn't this just a bit of a generality? I don't agree with such a wide, broad, general all-encompassing conclusion. Different HS's and different coaches bring a multitude of philosophies to their jobs - some are win-at-all costs, some are development focused, some don't have the student body which is capable of producing winning teams yet want to give their boys a chance to play HS sports, some actually use the diamond to teach life lessons (and winning is only a small component).

Winning may be better than losing; but, winning is not the yardstick by which to measure a HS baseball experience (IMO).

 

I would say that it is, but that winning isn't and should never be used as an excuse.

For example, win while treating players, teammates, coaches, umpires and opponents with respect; win while constantly working your hardest to improve something each day; win while maintaining your grades and doing all you can to get the most of your education, etc., etc.

You can win and develop, you can win and teach life lessons.  You should always have the desire and effort to win as part of every philosophy and action you take, so long as it doesn't compromise your character. 

I hope I don't sound heartless, but sometimes I think that is the difference between generations....current generation sometimes thinks they don't have to accept that no is no. In that instance I respect the kid for voicing his disagreement, but after he received the explanation, no just meant no. Growing up I remember in junior high our school was fed by about a 1/2 dozen elementary schools. 7th 8th and varsity basketball teams had 10 players each. I was fortunate to be good enough to make the team all 3 years but basically on varsity in 9th grade was a practice player because there were more skilled 7th and 8th grade kids. By the same token I knew I would not make the high school team because it was fed by 2 JR high schools and made the state playoffs 8 years running. I knew there was no shame in being cut and my dad didn't have to tell me not to go out for high school ball. We talk about how the # of players drop from high school to college to pros and that is just how life is with any talent. We shouldn't have to feel bad by making high school cuts, and I think because of many places where they don't, it causes disgruntled parents who make the coaches job unbearable....just my 2 cents worth.

coach2709 posted:

I've told this story before but I think it's appropriate again.  My first year as a head coach I was 22 or 23 years old and knew everything.  I was in my second year teaching and I had this kid in my class who loved baseball.  He and I would talk baseball quite a bit.  Try outs happen and after the third day I told the guys I would post a list on my classroom door of who made the team.  So here it is before first period and the hallways are full of kids and there is a group of guys at my door looking at their fate.  The kid I had in class had all his gear with him, looked at the list and broke down crying in the hallway in front of all those other kids.  To the best of my knowledge nobody made fun of him or gave him a hard time because it was truly a school of great kids but as a teacher and adult I should not be the reason something like this happens.  I learned a valuable lesson that day.  That kid hardly spoke to me after that.  I don't believe he talked baseball to me as a way to suck up to get on the team.  He genuinely loved baseball and I may have helped destroy that love by not handling it better.  The last thing we should ever do is destroy the love of baseball (or any sport) in kids.

 

 

When my son got unexpectedly cut in 8th grade, it was known that cuts would be made on the field after the end of day 3 of tryouts.  So not only did he have to walk off the field barely controlling his sobbing in front of 70 of his peers,  he had to do it in front of 100 or so parents, most of which had known him through Little League since he was 6 or 7,  that had gathered at the edge of the parking lot that overlooks the field. Freeking brutal.

i

every time I read these sort of threads I'm reminded how my HS varsity team made cuts......Varsity carried 15 players.......because we had 15 uniforms........

These are children.  Let's have a little compassion for them and treat them like they may have actual feelings.

I look at it this way....if I was applying for a job and I didn't get it, I would ask the employer what the person they chose had that I didn't have.  In theory so that I could improve my chances of getting the next job.  I have actually asked this to potential employers.  Sometimes the other person lived closer, or had a training certificate I did not have, once they were able to identify 2 more chemicals by smelling them than I did.  Only once did someone say  "We just decided to go in a different direction"....I considered that to be the equivalent of a twitter posting of who made the team and who didn't.

Asking for feedback is not a bad thing, and giving it without being asked is a great thing.

2019Lefty21 posted:

I hope I don't sound heartless, but sometimes I think that is the difference between generations....current generation sometimes thinks they don't have to accept that no is no. In that instance I respect the kid for voicing his disagreement, but after he received the explanation, no just meant no. Growing up I remember in junior high our school was fed by about a 1/2 dozen elementary schools. 7th 8th and varsity basketball teams had 10 players each. I was fortunate to be good enough to make the team all 3 years but basically on varsity in 9th grade was a practice player because there were more skilled 7th and 8th grade kids. By the same token I knew I would not make the high school team because it was fed by 2 JR high schools and made the state playoffs 8 years running. I knew there was no shame in being cut and my dad didn't have to tell me not to go out for high school ball. We talk about how the # of players drop from high school to college to pros and that is just how life is with any talent. We shouldn't have to feel bad by making high school cuts, and I think because of many places where they don't, it causes disgruntled parents who make the coaches job unbearable....just my 2 cents worth.

I absolutely do not think you're being heartless and think you have a very valid point about the differences in generations.  I think a lot of times this added emotional issue is created by parents and coaches when they are younger telling them how great they are which creates unrealistic expectations.  Every generation has hoped for the best but I think we are losing the being honest and real with kids.  The one thing that hasn't changed over time is pride and the disappointment that comes with not achieving a goal. Kids today handle that disappointment more visibly which creates more stress.  The one thing I think that doesn't and shouldn't change no matter what generation you're talking about is treating them with respect.  Meeting face to face is treating them with respect.  Then if they break down crying you allow them time to compose themselves even if in the back of your mind you're saying this kid is absolutely weak and deserves to be cut.

The comment about the kid having to walk off the field in front of 70 of his peers and 100 parents kind of provides some perspective to the parents enhanced role these days.  I guess no parent wants to risk carpooling with cuts looming - would hate to have a mixed group of happy and sad kids in the car heading home.

Some of the additional dialog highlights some of the challenges we coaches have when trying to do it "right".  Many of us, including myself, are off-campus coaches and only get face time with the boys at the field.  So, no opportunity to meet in an office in private, one on one.  On the day of cuts, I did pull most players aside, sometimes individually, sometimes in groups of 2 or 3, depending on what their situation was.  I used it to also let "tweeners" know what squad they would be starting the year with, why, and what to expect the rest of the year.  But I also used it to make the meeting with those being cut a bit less obvious.   There's just no perfect solution.   Two kids I had to cut didn't show up that day.  For a variety of other reasons, I had no choice but to communicate later, not face-to-face.  We talk as a group about being supportive and encouraging toward those who have to face the tough news.  Still, many DO carpool.  Many schools DO have dumb roster limit restrictions (in our case, van capacity).  There is a lot of crossover where winter sports guys haven't even shown up yet (and sometimes won't until just before first games), so those cut will never understand completely how they can be cut before others show up.  Parents are going to come and pick up players and some have dejected cut players, some have a carpool mix of players not cut and players cut.  Some are parents who have never had a kid cut from anything and can't possibly understand how this could happen.  Also, there is never a "right" time.  Before or after Holiday break?  Can't wait for winter sports guys if you know the numbers will warrant cuts.  We want to give every player a fair shake but each time out is a safety hazard for some.  We want to give a long look but every day/week that passes, that player is investing more in time, new gear, hope, etc.  Don't look for perfect execution from coaches.  Perfect solutions just don't exist.  It's just a hard thing for everyone involved.

After this round of cuts, I found out one of the players was the nephew of a local legendary coach (still around)... and a son of one of the local FB coaches... AND the dad is affiliated with my wife's (and wife's parents') tiny hometown church.  Yeah, I'll be a real popular guy for a while, even in my own house.  

Those cuts occurred shortly before Christmas (again, there is no perfect time).  I was off Christmas Eve day to do Christmas shopping with my wife.  We only had the morning.  About 1/2 hour into it, I got a call from one of the parents of one of those cut.  I felt obligated to give him my full attention for quite a while.  Just a hard thing.

cabbagedad posted:

Some of the additional dialog highlights some of the challenges we coaches have when trying to do it "right".  Many of us, including myself, are off-campus coaches and only get face time with the boys at the field.  So, no opportunity to meet in an office in private, one on one.  On the day of cuts, I did pull most players aside, sometimes individually, sometimes in groups of 2 or 3, depending on what their situation was.  I used it to also let "tweeners" know what squad they would be starting the year with, why, and what to expect the rest of the year.  But I also used it to make the meeting with those being cut a bit less obvious.   There's just no perfect solution.   Two kids I had to cut didn't show up that day.  For a variety of other reasons, I had no choice but to communicate later, not face-to-face.  We talk as a group about being supportive and encouraging toward those who have to face the tough news.  Still, many DO carpool.  Many schools DO have dumb roster limit restrictions (in our case, van capacity).  There is a lot of crossover where winter sports guys haven't even shown up yet (and sometimes won't until just before first games), so those cut will never understand completely how they can be cut before others show up.  Parents are going to come and pick up players and some have dejected cut players, some have a carpool mix of players not cut and players cut.  Some are parents who have never had a kid cut from anything and can't possibly understand how this could happen.  Also, there is never a "right" time.  Before or after Holiday break?  Can't wait for winter sports guys if you know the numbers will warrant cuts.  We want to give every player a fair shake but each time out is a safety hazard for some.  We want to give a long look but every day/week that passes, that player is investing more in time, new gear, hope, etc.  Don't look for perfect execution from coaches.  Perfect solutions just don't exist.  It's just a hard thing for everyone involved.

After this round of cuts, I found out one of the players was the nephew of a local legendary coach (still around)... and a son of one of the local FB coaches... AND the dad is affiliated with my wife's (and wife's parents') tiny hometown church.  Yeah, I'll be a real popular guy for a while, even in my own house.  

Those cuts occurred shortly before Christmas (again, there is no perfect time).  I was off Christmas Eve day to do Christmas shopping with my wife.  We only had the morning.  About 1/2 hour into it, I got a call from one of the parents of one of those cut.  I felt obligated to give him my full attention for quite a while.  Just a hard thing.

Cabbage....a parent calling a coach on Christmas Eve is wrong in my opinion, unless they are wishing you a merry Christmas with your family.

When it comes to frosh cuts, I like the way my kids school has been handeling it. Depending on the year it can be as high as 3 -4 kids being cut for everyone who makes it. The kids are notified that they will be leaving practice at different times on the next day and that car pooling is not the best option. The kids are divided up into 2 groups and moved into 2 different class rooms in different areas of the school.  In 1 classroom are the kids who obviously made the team.  As a group, They are straight up told they made the team and that they must remain in the classroom until 15 minutes after the last cut player leaves the building.  They are also asked to not talk about baseball until the first practice the next day.  

The other group of kids are called into the coaches offices one by one.  If they make the team they are moved to the other classroom.  If they are cut the coach explains why.  He then gives them time to clear out of the office and hallway before the next kid is called in.  It takes sometime to go through the process.  I think my son, who was on the team in group 1, didn't leave the gym until 9pm or so on cut day.  I think practice might have ended around 5:30 or 6 that day .  

What I like about this is every kid cut is given time to talk with the coach about why they didn't make it, what they need to work on, and are allowed to clear out without seein others.  They kids who made it are also asked to keep their celebration to a minimum

I realize many will think this is cold, but I like the way my son's school does this.   They have a week of try-outs.  Then the rosters for freshman, JV and varsity are posted on line on Saturday.   This lets the kids see if they were cut from home and have the weekend to digest it.  I am sure the coach talks with the cut players who want to know why, but to me, this allows the kids to get the news without an audience.   We don't have try outs for a few more weeks.  If my son were to get cut, he would NOT want to find out with others around.  

I actually like both Joe's AND Dad of a 17's approaches.  Either one could work.  I work with HS age students  and one of my roles is supervising student elections.  Most kids running for office get "cut". Our method of notifying them used to be personal phone calls that were hit and miss (kids were at practice for some activity they were involved in, or they saw a strange # on their phone, or they just didn't feel like getting the news, no matter what it was, from a live human being).  One year I thought to ask the candidates how they wanted to be notified, and almost to a person, they said "Text us!"  I said no, I'm not going to send out text messages from my personal phone to 30 candidates.  "Ok, then email us!  That'd be great!  If we lose, we find out when we want to find out.  No one has to be around."  Fair enough.

When I coached, back in the days of the telegraph, I met with each kid and explained what the situation was.   I had been cut off my 8th grade team with a sheet of paper on tacked to a wall in the main hallway of the school.  I decided I had to work harder and I had parents who helped me turn the cut into a positive.  I told myself that if I ever coached, I would NEVER cut kids by posting a list on a wall somewhere.

I may have already shared on the site what follows, so sorry if this is a repeat. Even a list on the wall would be better than what happened to my 2017's classmates in 7th grade (Almost all of whom had been classmates since kindergarten, and all of whom had played neighborhood ball with and against each other since they were 5 yrs. old). 

Our school has limited field space so tryouts took place at a public ball field about 25 minutes away from campus.  Kids were bussed from the school to the public field.  We always have a huge turnout for baseball, about 50 7th graders or so, for roughly 18 spots.  As far as I know the # of players kept on the team only had to do with which kids the coach thought could produce. In any case, the day for cuts came and the coaches read out a list of names to the whole group after practice, told those kids to stay behind, and sent everyone else to the waiting bus.  They then proceeded to tell the group left behind that they were all cut (30 or so kids).  Tough news to hear but even tougher to deal with when that group had to walk the 1/4 mile or so to the bus, and then walk down the gauntlet of the bus aisle past EVERY kid who had made the team.  Then they had to endure the ride back to school in a bus where a third of the kids were excited about making the team, and 2/3 of the kids were dealing with the bad news.  THEN, they get to school and many of them showered together.  My son said by the time the bus got back to school, many of the cut kids had cried so much they were cried out.

What is wrong with a kid learning how to deal with adversity?  Getting cut can teach a kid many things:  How to deal with adversity/rejection, if they truly love the sport, then maybe they will work harder to make the team the next year, maybe it will push him/her into the sport/activity they were destined for.    The kid(s) will need to learn how to deal with rejection at some point, even if it is in front of other kids - does it suck, absolutely, been there done that, was I embarrassed? You bet, but life goes on.    Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but how better to learn about life especially when it throws a wrench at you!  And yes my heart goes out for those kids, but I too have to be strong, I can't pamper them and say, "It was unfair, you deserve to be on the team."

I don't think there is any good way to handle cutting kids.  But no matter which way you do it, someone will complain. 

Dadof3 posted:

What is wrong with a kid learning how to deal with adversity?  Getting cut can teach a kid many things:  How to deal with adversity/rejection, if they truly love the sport, then maybe they will work harder to make the team the next year, maybe it will push him/her into the sport/activity they were destined for.    The kid(s) will need to learn how to deal with rejection at some point, even if it is in front of other kids - does it suck, absolutely, been there done that, was I embarrassed? You bet, but life goes on.    Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but how better to learn about life especially when it throws a wrench at you!  And yes my heart goes out for those kids, but I too have to be strong, I can't pamper them and say, "It was unfair, you deserve to be on the team."

 

I don't think there is any good way to handle cutting kids.  But no matter which way you do it, someone will complain. 

I would NEVER tell my kid "you deserve to be on the team", but I could see myself saying "The coach could have handled telling the cut kids better.  High School has enough uncertainty in it, we don't need possible break down in front of your peers added to it." 

Because let's face it, they are kids!  If my kid loved baseball and had been thinking about playing for his high school for years and the day comes when he will find out if his dream is coming true and he gets cut...yeah I could see him crying.  Do you have any idea how many hormones are running around in the average 15 year old?  Pregnant lady times 10!

Dadof3 posted:

What is wrong with a kid learning how to deal with adversity?  Getting cut can teach a kid many things:  How to deal with adversity/rejection, if they truly love the sport, then maybe they will work harder to make the team the next year, maybe it will push him/her into the sport/activity they were destined for.    The kid(s) will need to learn how to deal with rejection at some point, even if it is in front of other kids - does it suck, absolutely, been there done that, was I embarrassed? You bet, but life goes on.    Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but how better to learn about life especially when it throws a wrench at you!  And yes my heart goes out for those kids, but I too have to be strong, I can't pamper them and say, "It was unfair, you deserve to be on the team."

 

I don't think there is any good way to handle cutting kids.  But no matter which way you do it, someone will complain. 

This ^^^.

Go44dad posted:

Dadof3 posted:

What is wrong with a kid learning how to deal with adversity?  Getting cut can teach a kid many things:  How to deal with adversity/rejection, if they truly love the sport, then maybe they will work harder to make the team the next year, maybe it will push him/her into the sport/activity they were destined for.    The kid(s) will need to learn how to deal with rejection at some point, even if it is in front of other kids - does it suck, absolutely, been there done that, was I embarrassed? You bet, but life goes on.    Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but how better to learn about life especially when it throws a wrench at you!  And yes my heart goes out for those kids, but I too have to be strong, I can't pamper them and say, "It was unfair, you deserve to be on the team."

 

I don't think there is any good way to handle cutting kids.  But no matter which way you do it, someone will complain. 

This ^^^.

I have been watching this thread afraid to comment in this age of sensitivity. You guys have given me my bravery pill!  Agree with you both. First time in on making cuts I was a student teacher coaching freshman B team basketball. I had very little decision making power obviously but I was part of the process. We brought everyone in the locker room. Called out the names of the kids who made the team and instructed them to leave immediately without saying a word and be at practice tomorrow. Then had our talk with the cuts as a group then one by one. I was almost crying myself...  fast forward a few years into my teaching/coaching career. I started realizing making a freshman team is just not that tough. There are some who just simply are not athletes - shouldn't they be smart enough to realize that?  Others are just plain lazy and don't care enough so why should I?  Once I was a varsity coach I never really made cuts. At the end of each season I held meetings with players and was very honest about where they stood. Most who realized playing time would be a rumor for them simply did not play the following year. A few just wanted to be on the team and as lon as they had a good attitude about it I gave them a uniform and treated them with respect.  But most cuts of course are at the freshman level.  Most (I know there is some difference in areas) freshman who get cut are bad at baseball. It mystifies me how they could need an explanation.  I coached at two state championship programs in the Chicago area. We had lot of talent and still by the end of our freshman rosters it was slim pickins. So I know some will want to say how their school has so much talent that the 50th best kid in the class is still good.  I am not buying it. You want to not be cut?  Work harder. You choose not to?  Don't expect me to feel sorry for you. 

Our school doesn't do cuts. But 5 am workouts for a few weeks take care of many of the lazy, lack of playing time gets most of the rest. Bad news is coaches still have to deal with the ones whose parents continue to make them go out. 

Dadof3 posted:

What is wrong with a kid learning how to deal with adversity?  Getting cut can teach a kid many things:  How to deal with adversity/rejection, if they truly love the sport, then maybe they will work harder to make the team the next year, maybe it will push him/her into the sport/activity they were destined for.    The kid(s) will need to learn how to deal with rejection at some point, even if it is in front of other kids - does it suck, absolutely, been there done that, was I embarrassed? You bet, but life goes on.    Sorry if this sounds insensitive, but how better to learn about life especially when it throws a wrench at you!  And yes my heart goes out for those kids, but I too have to be strong, I can't pamper them and say, "It was unfair, you deserve to be on the team."

 

I don't think there is any good way to handle cutting kids.  But no matter which way you do it, someone will complain. 

A kid can learn about adversity without being humiliated. And trust me i am about as far from being that parent who pampers and shelters their kids as is possible. My older son is barely speaking to me right now because i gave him a big dose of real world truth (as i see it anyway)   In my younger son's case he faced up to the adversity, worked his butt off and two years after being cut from the middle school team personally (from what ive been told)  by the Varsity coach over the objection of the MS coach, he was starting on Varsity for that same coach that cut him.

But that long walk of shame was unnecessary. I like the idea of posting the list online, coupled with a 1 on 1 meeting later. Youre right there is no perfect way, being told you arent good enough to be on the team is a harsh message to receive no matter the medium. But there are less bad options.

I worked at a place that went through a big layoff. When they called your number they brought you into an office, did what they had to do, gave you a little speech,   and then left and gave you a few minutes to yourself to collect yourself. Not extending that courtesy to children just seems mean. 

By the way the coach did cuts the same way the next year, and had a mom freak out when her kid got cut. Like a serious storm the field cursing yelling throwing anything not nailed down conniption. In this day and age having a big group of parents and kids, many of whom are in a state of overcharged emotions, all interacting is a recipe for disaster. I wont lie and say i didnt resent some of the families hugging and congratulating their kids. Luckily, i dont have anger management issues, and just tamped it down. But not everyone is as level headed as i am.

The following year he posted a list on his office door.