Hot Stove League Thread

It's time for thread on the off-season moves, isn't it?  Got to talk about something while waiting for pitchers and catchers and/or HS and college baseball.

Here in NorCal we're all on pins and needles about the potential Stanton trade, and we seem to be evenly split on whether or that would be awesome or a disaster.   The hope for Ohtani to become a Giant is more unanimous, though who knows how real the hype is until he gets to the MLB.  Everyone  is talking about Cain and JD Martinez, too, but our offense is so bad that Palmero coming out of retirement might hit in the middle of the order.

Anyway, who has dibs on Darvish and Arrieta?  Those are going to be interesting.

Original Post
BOF posted:

Thanks JCG. Sorry but Stanton is going to the Dodgers, because that is where he wants to play and the Marlins have no choice unless they want to sit on his contract. It may take some time but here is a pretty good summary of what the trade is going to look like:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/h...-to-be/#3794a8cc464a

 

 

 

Everybody knows he wants to go there, but I hadn't seen that analysis of why the numbers make sense for the Dodgers.  Interesting, but I'm not sold on the Marlins going with that scenario.   

We'll know soon enough!

Makes sense, he wanted to be on a non competitive team.... I'm with 2022NYC 

Seriously though,  I saw them play a couple of times last year and they are not that far away. 

I'ts just that Astro's thing... 

MLB says Stanton to Yankees.  Why not in that stadium, he will hit a gazillion home runs.  Yankees have to unload payroll.  I am sad to see him leave the Marlins but really excited with what Jeter has planned. 

Stanton and Judge, look out AL east!!!

Sounds like he's a legit MLB starter, but opinions are mixed about his hitting. I can't imagine them letting him play  OF.  I guess they'll move Pujols back to 1b and Valbuena and Ohtani will compete for DH time.  

TPM, to be realistic...

Jeter buys the Marlins, at an inflated price, mostly with someone else's money and heavy debt, guts the front office of long time employees in what would be considered unprofessional manner, gets rid of a generational player in a disjointed poorly managed process (purely for cash reasons) and for lower level prospects who have little chance to contribute in the near term, and is running a team that has had lackluster fan support over the years. The best run teams now bring in smart people to manage them, which the Marlins don't seem to be doing. In addition, former baseball players are not known to be mental giants and have traditionally failed miserably running a complex baseball franchise and your excited? 

I think Jeter was a great player and classy representative of a storied franchise, but his start at running a team is not going so well right now. On the positive side it can't get any worse....

Just say'in.

PS: Oh and the Gordon trade for mostly cash reason, so they have saved $300M, I might be wrong, maybe it can get worse....

This is Yankee/Cashman contract history repeating itself yet again....stupid is as stupid does.  Doesn't anyone remember ARod's contract?   Hello....Bueller? Bueller?   Stanton strikes out nearly 25% of the time and Judge strikes out 31% of the time. HRs are good in today's game but the Yankees needed more baseball balance than oversized pumped up weight room gym rats who also play baseball. They'll end up trading Sanchez (strikes out 23% of time) and is a liability behind the plate....you watch. Sanchez got Girardi fired and Boone won't make the same mistake. I call them like I see them. 

I think the Yankees had other needs that could make their team better, and this large contract ( in the neighborhood of $260M) is a step in the wrong direction for power talent that they already had.   So, I'm fine with it from a RedSox homer perspective!  ;-)

Just one Red Sox fans opinion.

BOF posted:

TPM, to be realistic...

Jeter buys the Marlins, at an inflated price, mostly with someone else's money and heavy debt, guts the front office of long time employees in what would be considered unprofessional manner, gets rid of a generational player in a disjointed poorly managed process (purely for cash reasons) and for lower level prospects who have little chance to contribute in the near term, and is running a team that has had lackluster fan support over the years. The best run teams now bring in smart people to manage them, which the Marlins don't seem to be doing. In addition, former baseball players are not known to be mental giants and have traditionally failed miserably running a complex baseball franchise and your excited? 

I think Jeter was a great player and classy representative of a storied franchise, but his start at running a team is not going so well right now. On the positive side it can't get any worse....

Just say'in.

PS: Oh and the Gordon trade for mostly cash reason, so they have saved $300M, I might be wrong, maybe it can get worse....

The trade isnt on Jeter, it was put together by Michael Hill. If this doesn't work out, he is gone. 

Glad that they are getting rid of everyone who was involved with the organization in front office. Paying Stanton what they did was insane. The owner wanted everyone to talk about how he had the best player in baseball.  Stanton doesn't  seem to be popular here, very seldom does anyone talk about him. But I am not in Dade county. Heard they aren't happy.

People don't go to games because it's very difficult to get to the stadium from further north and its on TV for every game.  Loria got the city of Miami to build the stadium, no one else from the other 2 counties would, there just wasn't enough land in broward or palm beach counties and the working people in dade are paying for the stadium and PO'd.

Another story of a millionaire getting the little guy to pay for his castle.

 

 

TPM posted:
BOF posted:

TPM, to be realistic...

Jeter buys the Marlins, at an inflated price, mostly with someone else's money and heavy debt, guts the front office of long time employees in what would be considered unprofessional manner, gets rid of a generational player in a disjointed poorly managed process (purely for cash reasons) and for lower level prospects who have little chance to contribute in the near term, and is running a team that has had lackluster fan support over the years. The best run teams now bring in smart people to manage them, which the Marlins don't seem to be doing. In addition, former baseball players are not known to be mental giants and have traditionally failed miserably running a complex baseball franchise and your excited? 

I think Jeter was a great player and classy representative of a storied franchise, but his start at running a team is not going so well right now. On the positive side it can't get any worse....

Just say'in.

PS: Oh and the Gordon trade for mostly cash reason, so they have saved $300M, I might be wrong, maybe it can get worse....

The trade isnt on Jeter, it was put together by Michael Hill. If this doesn't work out, he is gone. 

Glad that they are getting rid of everyone who was involved with the organization in front office. Paying Stanton what they did was insane. The owner wanted everyone to talk about how he had the best player in baseball.  Stanton doesn't  seem to be popular here, very seldom does anyone talk about him. But I am not in Dade county. Heard they aren't happy.

People don't go to games because it's very difficult to get to the stadium from further north and its on TV for every game.  Loria got the city of Miami to build the stadium, no one else from the other 2 counties would, there just wasn't enough land in broward or palm beach counties and the working people in dade are paying for the stadium and PO'd.

Another story of a millionaire getting the little guy to pay for his castle.

 

 

I'm pretty sure hill is not running this anymore. Atm jeter and Sherman are probably running the show.

BOF posted:

TPM, to be realistic...

Jeter buys the Marlins, at an inflated price, mostly with someone else's money and heavy debt, guts the front office of long time employees in what would be considered unprofessional manner, gets rid of a generational player in a disjointed poorly managed process (purely for cash reasons) and for lower level prospects who have little chance to contribute in the near term, and is running a team that has had lackluster fan support over the years. The best run teams now bring in smart people to manage them, which the Marlins don't seem to be doing. In addition, former baseball players are not known to be mental giants and have traditionally failed miserably running a complex baseball franchise and your excited? 

I think Jeter was a great player and classy representative of a storied franchise, but his start at running a team is not going so well right now. On the positive side it can't get any worse....

Just say'in.

PS: Oh and the Gordon trade for mostly cash reason, so they have saved $300M, I might be wrong, maybe it can get worse....

Edited for clarity...

"Jeter pays $3M for a 4% stake in a $1.2B purchase of an MLB franchise that is in the worst financial shape of all franchises.  The franchise also had one of the worst contracts ever offered to an MLB player with player option and a full no trade clause.  Said player has played more than 125 games twice in eight years.  Jeter dumps old culture in one sweep by getting rid of the current good ole boys network."

Jeter was overrated as a player.  Without being in NY, he's just another Craig Biggio.  (The two are separated in career WAR by 5 wins.  And I'm kidding, Jeter was great.  Just not a god.)

I've been looking for a National League team.  The Phillies were the front runner, may have to look at the Marlins now.

 

I was excited until I heard about Jeter  treated Stanton. And rumor is that he was told if he didnt take either deal with Cardinals or Giants they wanted him to take he woud be a Marlin for life (until free gency in 2020 at least) Stanton showed them up and took the deal he wanted. The deal was done by Michael Hill.

This has been a really bad display of the ugliness of mlb.

Still, hoping that they will rebuild the organization with people who know what they are doing.

TPM posted:

I was excited until I heard about Jeter  treated Stanton. And rumor is that he was told if he didnt take either deal with Cardinals or Giants they wanted him to take he woud be a Marlin for life (until free gency in 2020 at least) Stanton showed them up and took the deal he wanted. The deal was done by Michael Hill.

This has been a really bad display of the ugliness of mlb.

Still, hoping that they will rebuild the organization with people who know what they are doing.

I think the ugliness is at the same level it has always been in MLB.  When Stanton signed his mega-deal for ten years with a low revenue club and never considered he would be half of the payroll of a bad team, that's on him.

Go44Dad - No worries, this Yankee media hype shall pass as it always does.  We've seen it all before.   Just wait for the other shoe to drop.   No doubt the AL East will become a different place as you see other teams load up on RHP to match the right handed imbalance the Yankees projected lineup has.  

Chive on.

A Marlins executive said he was surprised Stanton would go to NY. He said Stanton is media shy and negatively impacted by negative media . As a Red Sox fan I hope it’s true.

A negative aspect to signing Stanton is if he stays for the duration of the contract. It’s a lot of back end money where ROI is questionable.

BOF posted:

Scott Boras is doing the Scott Boras thing, calling Marlins a "pawn shop"...

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/s...op/story?id=51770998

I am pretty sure the next players contract will have some sort of team minimums to prevent tanking like the Astros did for a couple of years. 

 

I don't have a Problem with Teams tanking for prospects and as a side effect lowering the payroll but if Teams leave Surplus value on the table and put up with mediocre prospects to save more Money that sucks.

 

I know the new owners inherited debts by loria but MLB should have never allowed that and force loria or the new owner to pay for the debts without future payroll implications. loria got 800M for the Team (excluding the debts which was paid by the new owner) so he easily could have paid for the debts and still make a Profit from selling the Team.

the marlins Revenue won't exactly increase with that crap product and if the new ownership wants to consolidate the debts via saving personell costs that will take at least a decade.

would have probably been easier to contract the marlins and start a new Franchise (maybe even in another City).

Dominik85 posted:
BOF posted:

Scott Boras is doing the Scott Boras thing, calling Marlins a "pawn shop"...

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/s...op/story?id=51770998

I am pretty sure the next players contract will have some sort of team minimums to prevent tanking like the Astros did for a couple of years. 

 

I don't have a Problem with Teams tanking for prospects and as a side effect lowering the payroll but if Teams leave Surplus value on the table and put up with mediocre prospects to save more Money that sucks.

 

I know the new owners inherited debts by loria but MLB should have never allowed that and force loria or the new owner to pay for the debts without future payroll implications. loria got 800M for the Team (excluding the debts which was paid by the new owner) so he easily could have paid for the debts and still make a Profit from selling the Team.

the marlins Revenue won't exactly increase with that crap product and if the new ownership wants to consolidate the debts via saving personell costs that will take at least a decade.

would have probably been easier to contract the marlins and start a new Franchise (maybe even in another City).

Dont forget that MLB at one time were part owners. 

I think that they just wanted him to go away.

TPM posted:
Dominik85 posted:
BOF posted:

Scott Boras is doing the Scott Boras thing, calling Marlins a "pawn shop"...

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/s...op/story?id=51770998

I am pretty sure the next players contract will have some sort of team minimums to prevent tanking like the Astros did for a couple of years. 

 

I don't have a Problem with Teams tanking for prospects and as a side effect lowering the payroll but if Teams leave Surplus value on the table and put up with mediocre prospects to save more Money that sucks.

 

I know the new owners inherited debts by loria but MLB should have never allowed that and force loria or the new owner to pay for the debts without future payroll implications. loria got 800M for the Team (excluding the debts which was paid by the new owner) so he easily could have paid for the debts and still make a Profit from selling the Team.

the marlins Revenue won't exactly increase with that crap product and if the new ownership wants to consolidate the debts via saving personell costs that will take at least a decade.

would have probably been easier to contract the marlins and start a new Franchise (maybe even in another City).

Dont forget that MLB at one time were part owners. 

I think that they just wanted him to go away.

Just read Scott Boras Wikipedia page.  I do believe he updates it himself.  I think at some point too many clients hurt themselves, as Boras has multiple high profile players after the same pile of owner's money.

Dodgers and Braves just pulled off a brilliant trade, and why I believe Jeter will most likely be a mediocre GM unless he brings ins some smart people to help him run the team.

http://www.espn.com/blog/buste...ed-debt-defying-deal

"This is why new Marlins honcho Derek Jeter should have been at the winter meetings and why he should be there in future years if he wants to credibly operate a baseball operations department. Showing up is part of the gig, because you never know what conversation, what meeting, what relationship will spark a larger, greater idea. If he’d rather focus on the business side -- and maybe that’s where his true passion is -- then he can hand the reins of the baseball work to president of baseball operations Michael Hill, give him a budget and be there to sign off."

 

 

like2rake posted:

Not a Dodger fan, but the shuffling of most likely inconsequential players to better position themselves financially for the 2018 free agent bonanza was quite smart.....  Hot Stove 2018 is going to be nuts.

Agree.  Jeff Passan said this on Twitter when this trade was announced:

The scariest thing in the world for 28 other teams around baseball is the Yankees and Dodgers being run by intelligent people with good decision-making skills. They are. The second-scariest thing is the Yankees and Dodgers dipping under the luxury-tax threshold. They’re about to.

 

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