HS Baseball Pre-season Parent Meetings

2017LHPscrewball posted:
ironhorse posted:

So Johnny gets in trouble for a picture with one beer?

What about passed out drunk at a party?

What about drunk at a school function?

What about smoking one joint? 

What about holding a joint in a picture but not smoking it?

What about prescription pills?

What about cocaine?

What about sexual assault? (I mean, we're "remembering what high school kids are like", right?)

It may seem like a "real world" policy, but the real world has a slightly detailed penal code and judges and lawyers and due process and blah, blah, blah.

I have trouble convincing parents that they're kid hitting.118 with 20 K's shouldn't start at 1b. You think I 'm going to spend days and weeks creating a sliding scale policy of offenses that most adults have different views on anyway? And then when a kid gets in trouble try and explain the parents and the kids in the program why one offense is better or worse than another? No thanks.

If you're dumb enough to have pictures of yourself on social media doing illegal things that's on you.

 

 

 

Good point about avoiding the sliding scale, but some "pictures" are not what they always appear.  The whole red solo cup thing is a non-starter.  If my kid went to some party and kids were downing beers, I might assume my kid was drinking lemonade if he was holding the red cup.  If he is in a picture holding the "cup" with other kids holding beers, should he get suspended - should that be the same as showing up to school drunk?  As for smoking one joint, I hope you are not equating that as more egregious than passing out drunk.  By the way, where does smokeless tobacco fit into the scale?

True story - I was on a youth summer church trip (3 weeks out west).  I took 2-3 of those disposable Kodak cameras.  My dad got them developed when I got back.  I happened to take a picture of a friend who happened to be pretending to smoke a joint (remember those old photos - not real clear shots).  My dad confronted me asking me if we had all smoked weed on the trip.  I seriously did not know what to say.  My attempts to pass it off as a joke were not well received.  I sort of equate this to the solo cup post.  

Completely agree on the picture alone not being proof. We actually have a district contract the kids signs that says he won't be a parties where alcohol is served (kids' parties they mean). So if he has a red cup and the guy behind him is holding a Bud Light....

But your comments about weed v. drunk v. snuff prove my point. I'm guessing all adults have varying opinions on the severity of those offenses. As a HS coach I'm not trying to add my opinions to it at all, you can raise your kids on that front, but unfortunately there has to be a policy.

 

Sometimes I just think you're all so unaware of the real world around you.

If every high school athlete in the US was kicked off their team for drinking, we wouldn't have enough kids for teams.  

No doubt if a kid comes to practice hungover or misses because he's drunk or something, punish him.  Or if he gets busted at a party, then their should be some consequences. 

I just don't think it's your job as a coach to go out of your way to look for kids drinking and punish them...

Approaches like "1 drink of alcohol and you're kicked off the team" just don't work with kids.  I promise you that. Maybe for your individual kid and that's fine, but not for a whole group.  It honestly just makes things worse as they just become sneakier and almost want to break the rule more...

Just set clear expectations and make sure their social life in no way impacts their baseball time.  As long as that happens, it's not really your business what they do on the weekend nights. 

 

College freshmen are 18-19, not old enough to legally drink... are they kicked off the team the first time they get caught be campus safety?

No.  They run the stadium or get suspended a game or 2 and move on and hopefully learn their lessons. 

But if a coach had a policy in college where any player who consumed alcohol would be kicked off the team, the team would rebel.  

 

One of the main things I remember from my son's parent-coach meeting freshman year is the coach stressed flexibility.  He went to a school in Chicago that is in a conference that stretches 80 miles north and south and maybe 60 miles east-west with the city of Chicago in the middle.

Flexibility of scheduling - trying to get in 25-30 games in 9 weeks beginning March 15 means you need to be ready to play every single day.  You might arrive at school and find out you have a game at 4:30 pm at a school 20 miles away.  You may end up playing 6 days in a row or not playing for 10 days due to the weather.  You might get 25 games in but only half will be the originally scheduled game.  If they can get an opponent, a field and umpires they will play.

Flexibility at positions - Everybody is baseball player.  Where you end up playing most likely will not be your preferred position.  Everybody is in the same boat. (My son ended up playing every position except catcher freshman year)

Flexibility in the batting order - in the beginning of the season playing time will be somewhat even until we see the boys play more outside.

Parent flexibility - Kids come to this school from 165 zip codes and 3 states.  Help each other out with rides and letting kids who live far away stay at other kids houses who live closer.

Flexibility - the key to many things in life.


 

Tug Tide posted:

I better tell my wife to clean out the pantry to get rid of the solo cups. I probably have 20-30 pictures of some of our travel team players at my house drinking lemonade, soda, etc from them. We have 3 sons and with a few more hanging out, it's just easier to give them a plastic cup and write their name or number on it. Guess we better re-think this as they hit HS next year. 

Now I would totally support a coach removing a player for being caught drinking, but not for a picture with a cup. 

Buy the yellow ones.  They will never suspect a thing.

Lots of good posts/suggestions above.  However, each school/program has its own culture.  Our kick-off potluck dinner is next week. Son's coach will answer questions about anything outside the lines.  You can save anything having to do with play/team/philosophy/strategy for the bathroom mirror.

I find a question like "How are you going to develop my son?" or "What if a college is coming?" out of place, especially in our environment.

Coach will say early I play to the best lineup and play to win each game.  I do look ahead at development, but I play to win games.  It doesn't matter what grade your son is in.....Our funding is low, we need your help.  But for any fundraisers, never give me a check, give it to the team fundraiser helper.  I will only see the bank balance, and don't look at who donated the funds.

Coaches aren't anti solo-cups, and they will be reasonable if a parent says, "Hey, coach, Johnny was at a church picnic Sunday afternoon when this picture was taken."  They are cracking down on the cutesy little game of, "Nah, coach.  I was at the Xi Phi lake party, but while everybody else was drinking beer, I was just drinking coke out of that red solo-cup there."   Don't be at the party in which coach knows that people were drinking, and be seen holding a solo-cup.  Coach knows the score.  Don't try to treat him like a chump.

Now back to your original question, Ironhorse.   I will tell you what I don't want to hear.  Some parents on here report that their coach is one of these "My-way-or-the-highway" guys who acts arrogant with the parents at the meeting.   I'm adult.  I won't be talked down to.  That's a good way to shorten your career at a program.

 

baseball season is 3-5 months here, if you don't like the rules there is the door.  I absolutely love my son, but he isn't anymore special than the next guy.  The rules are the rules.  If you agree to the rules, you abide by the rules.

As for the my way or the highway attitude, he's not my coach, he's my kids coach.  If he wants to put up with it, and the coach isn't hurting him, more power to them. I'm not the one that ran poles today.

CaCO3Girl posted:

baseball season is 3-5 months here, if you don't like the rules there is the door.  I absolutely love my son, but he isn't anymore special than the next guy.  The rules are the rules.  If you agree to the rules, you abide by the rules.

As for the my way or the highway attitude, he's not my coach, he's my kids coach.  If he wants to put up with it, and the coach isn't hurting him, more power to them. I'm not the one that ran poles today.

BLUF:  Its about discipline and maturity...agree with caco here...if you cannot show enough discipline for 3-5 months during in-season to focus on yourself and the Team, then well maybe you are not mature enough to be a member. 

 

cabbagedad posted:

I think most parents want to know...

Who is my kid spending three hours a day with?  What are their qualifications?  What are their rules and guidelines?  What will they be teaching my son, baseball and otherwise?

What is my son responsible for?

What am I responsible for?  How much will it cost?

What volunteering are you going to hit me up for?

What is the schedule?  What do we do about things that come up that conflict?

If questions come up, what is proper protocol?

(for some...) My kid takes lessons/goes to trainer... should we continue during season?

(for some...) My kid has aspirations to play in college.  What is your role in this pursuit?

What names are we aloud to call the umpires? 

Not to single you out Cabbage (although I'd love your perspective), but this is the second time this issue has been raised in this thread so I thought I'd comment.  I understand why a coach would ask players not to take outside instruction during the season (one voice, one method, etc), BUT... HS season is only 4-5 months out of the year, and the summer recruiting season starts up right after HS season ends.  Do I think it's best if my kid is asked to make  changes to his swing that conflict with how he's trained all year long, and then have to go and showcase a few weeks after the season ends?  Not really.  In the end the player is responsible for his performance on the field  and his recruiting activities, and if a coach (any coach) can help I'm all for it, but to mandate that only the HS coach can have input seems unreasonable to me.  I mean, the HS coach isn't going to be there at Lake Point or Jupiter or the myriad college visits, so should he really be taking this position when he isn't owning the ultimate responsibility for the outcome (college scholarship or draft)?  I'm sure this may come across as selfish, and maybe it is, but I look at HS ball as a means to an end, a step in the process, an awesome experience for my kid, but not as the end itself.  In case you are wondering, my kid has an awesome coach who is talented and provides really good insight and will offer advice, but he also knows my kid takes private lessons year round.  He also takes the view that if my son expects to play he better hit, no excuses.  This seems like a more reasonable position to take and helps the player learn how to take responsibility for his own development.

Smitty28 posted:
cabbagedad posted:

I think most parents want to know...

Who is my kid spending three hours a day with?  What are their qualifications?  What are their rules and guidelines?  What will they be teaching my son, baseball and otherwise?

What is my son responsible for?

What am I responsible for?  How much will it cost?

What volunteering are you going to hit me up for?

What is the schedule?  What do we do about things that come up that conflict?

If questions come up, what is proper protocol?

(for some...) My kid takes lessons/goes to trainer... should we continue during season?

(for some...) My kid has aspirations to play in college.  What is your role in this pursuit?

What names are we aloud to call the umpires? 

Not to single you out Cabbage (although I'd love your perspective), but this is the second time this issue has been raised in this thread so I thought I'd comment.  I understand why a coach would ask players not to take outside instruction during the season (one voice, one method, etc), BUT... HS season is only 4-5 months out of the year, and the summer recruiting season starts up right after HS season ends.  Do I think it's best if my kid is asked to make  changes to his swing that conflict with how he's trained all year long, and then have to go and showcase a few weeks after the season ends?  Not really.  In the end the player is responsible for his performance on the field  and his recruiting activities, and if a coach (any coach) can help I'm all for it, but to mandate that only the HS coach can have input seems unreasonable to me.  I mean, the HS coach isn't going to be there at Lake Point or Jupiter or the myriad college visits, so should he really be taking this position when he isn't owning the ultimate responsibility for the outcome (college scholarship or draft)?  I'm sure this may come across as selfish, and maybe it is, but I look at HS ball as a means to an end, a step in the process, an awesome experience for my kid, but not as the end itself.  In case you are wondering, my kid has an awesome coach who is talented and provides really good insight and will offer advice, but he also knows my kid takes private lessons year round.  He also takes the view that if my son expects to play he better hit, no excuses.  This seems like a more reasonable position to take and helps the player learn how to take responsibility for his own development.

My son is doing preseason lessons with a pitching coach. He'll stop during the season but he's always careful to run it by his HS coach. Can't imagine the HS coach saying no, but honestly, sometimes what I read on here makes me appreciate my son's HS coach's reasonability.

Smitty28 posted:
cabbagedad posted:

I think most parents want to know...

Who is my kid spending three hours a day with?  What are their qualifications?  What are their rules and guidelines?  What will they be teaching my son, baseball and otherwise?

What is my son responsible for?

What am I responsible for?  How much will it cost?

What volunteering are you going to hit me up for?

What is the schedule?  What do we do about things that come up that conflict?

If questions come up, what is proper protocol?

(for some...) My kid takes lessons/goes to trainer... should we continue during season?

(for some...) My kid has aspirations to play in college.  What is your role in this pursuit?

What names are we aloud to call the umpires? 

Not to single you out Cabbage (although I'd love your perspective), but this is the second time this issue has been raised in this thread so I thought I'd comment.  I understand why a coach would ask players not to take outside instruction during the season (one voice, one method, etc), BUT... HS season is only 4-5 months out of the year, and the summer recruiting season starts up right after HS season ends.  Do I think it's best if my kid is asked to make  changes to his swing that conflict with how he's trained all year long, and then have to go and showcase a few weeks after the season ends?  Not really.  In the end the player is responsible for his performance on the field  and his recruiting activities, and if a coach (any coach) can help I'm all for it, but to mandate that only the HS coach can have input seems unreasonable to me.  I mean, the HS coach isn't going to be there at Lake Point or Jupiter or the myriad college visits, so should he really be taking this position when he isn't owning the ultimate responsibility for the outcome (college scholarship or draft)?  I'm sure this may come across as selfish, and maybe it is, but I look at HS ball as a means to an end, a step in the process, an awesome experience for my kid, but not as the end itself.  In case you are wondering, my kid has an awesome coach who is talented and provides really good insight and will offer advice, but he also knows my kid takes private lessons year round.  He also takes the view that if my son expects to play he better hit, no excuses.  This seems like a more reasonable position to take and helps the player learn how to take responsibility for his own development.

Hey Smitty,

Glad to share my perspective but I should first point out that I have a different take on how I look at HS baseball than you do.  Nothing wrong with that and I am aware that I have an obvious bias as a coach.  I don't look at HS ball as a means to an end.  I take into consideration that most HS players at most schools won't go on to play college ball and their HS experience may very well be the height of their competitive playing days.  I also find HS ball to be special and unique -many other ways, including playing for your school that all your family and friends went to, playing for your community, long-standing cross-town rivalries, etc.  I feel I would be cheating the players of a very special experience if I treated it as just a means to an end... just a pipeline to the next level.  It deserves billing as the main event that it is for so many.  In fact, as I stay in close touch with our many players who do go on to play in college successfully, most have a HS ball experience as their  best baseball memory.  For many, beating their crosstown rival in HS carries more cred than making the conference semi's in college, even though the latter is an achievement at a higher level.  College ball is special in it's own way but it is also where it really starts to become more of a job and some of the hometown community thing is often lost. 

OK, so with that said...

Generally, HS players will benefit a great deal from finding good instructors and trainers to work with outside of the HS program.  I think most everyone recognizes this.  A few of the potential pitfalls of balancing private lessons and training during the HS baseball season are conflicting instruction, scheduling conflict and the health of the player.

For us, the big key is communication and commitment.  We encourage outside instruction and training (including during season) but constantly discuss the importance of speaking up when the player runs across instruction that seems to conflict.  We explain that there are often more than one "right" ways, different ways to convey the same message coming from different angles or using different terminology.  In the rare occasion when there actually is a different mechanic being taught, we try to explain the differences and determine which will work best for the player.  As you said, at the end of the day, they have to perform.  We try to be a part of an environment where the player can learn to identify and separate the absolutes from the other aspects where he can take the most helpful teaches from each source and really benefit from a variety of coaching and training.  Obviously, there has to be a hierarchy to the player's commitment and during the HS season, it must be with his HS team.  So, while he is encouraged to continue his outside instruction, it must be scheduled outside of the team required practice time.  With pitching, of course, this becomes much more challenging because pitching lessons involve pitching and the player must be fresh for his HS team bullpens and games.   This is far more difficult to achieve while maintaining proper arm care.  If there is a P who is not getting innings with the HS program, it can be more doable.  Again, communication is key.

 

I'll chime in as well since my son's school doesn't allow lessons during the season and is very very adamant about it.  He went into detail in the parent meeting about it.  He basically said:

"We will be practicing with your boys 5-6 days a week.  We know how much they are throwing, we do not want additional throwing, not even long toss, out of our view.  We work them hard, and often, no other training is needed.  Also, while I realize some of you have instructors you like I'd be willing to bet money some of you have instructors that are not teaching valuable things.  So then your kid comes into the cage, my hitting coach tries to tell them to do it this way, your kid says my instructor doesn't like it that way.  This causes a rift in the team dynamic.  All of my coaches trust and believe in what we are doing, and have your kids best interest at heart, but we need them to try things our way.  If after the season they want to revert to their old swing that is fine. In season we have one voice and I'd appreciate it if I didn't have to take up valuable practice time arguing over which way is better, so please for these 3-4 months can we do without lessons?"

My son has said they are open to talking about what works best for each kid.  He has tight hips, he is allowed to swing differently than a kid that has super loose hits.  They aren't trying to say there is only one way for these 40+ kids to swing, they just don't want to fight for space in the kids head on how to swing properly.  With 3 games a week, and multiple practice days a week, they also don't want a kid pitching any more than that.  They have lowered the state pitch count for the JV team as it is, because they are very concerned with over use.  I don't mind their approach, and neither does my kid.

I like our kids getting outside instruction, no doubt. We have 2 rules pertaining to them in season:

1. No pitching lessons in-season. We have a pretty structured pen schedule to keep our kids sharp, and we know the most likely days they'll be throwing in games. If they throw 1 (sometimes 2 ) pens with us, and then possibly appear in a game, there simply isn't a (simple or easy or foolproof) way to safely throw with an instructor. It just increases the chance of injury. And let's be honest, a lot of teenagers suck at communicating, so knowing if or when they threw outside of us is difficult.

2. No missing practice time for private instruction.

We're like Cabbage in that if you're being taught something different we want to know about it. We don't give ultimatums at all, but we like to know the "why" behind what a kid is being taught. Up to the kid ultimately what he does. 

Now back to your original question, Ironhorse.   I will tell you what I don't want to hear.  Some parents on here report that their coach is one of these "My-way-or-the-highway" guys who acts arrogant with the parents at the meeting.   I'm adult.  I won't be talked down to.  That's a good way to shorten your career at a program.

At my workplace, I occasionally work on some articles that get widely circulated without regard to specific job title, experience, ect.  I was told that a good target is to write a a 4th grade level (software will actually give you feedback on what you write).  This is not meant to "talk down" to the more senior staff, but rather be inclusive such that everyone can appreciate the subject matter.  Out high school HC is one that is my-way-or-the-highway, but over several years I have figured out the he is really speaking to those die-hard parents (often new parents) which really just want to understand how their superstar is going to be highlighted within the program.  He did take meetings, if requested, but required the player participate in the meeting.  We had a few over the years and it was interesting to hear some of the more nuanced details that he and the player agreed on - some of this nuance didn't quite come through clearly from our son.  Regardless, in important matters there was solid dialogue.

If the HC didn't basically cut some of the new parents off at the knees, there is no telling what type of early feedback he might have to deal with.  Instead, we got to hear it muttered in the stands.  The HC didn't squash it, he just avoided it becoming his problem.  In hindsight, not a bad plan but he didn't come across as the warmest of people.

ironhorse posted:

I like our kids getting outside instruction, no doubt. We have 2 rules pertaining to them in season:

1. No pitching lessons in-season. We have a pretty structured pen schedule to keep our kids sharp, and we know the most likely days they'll be throwing in games. If they throw 1 (sometimes 2 ) pens with us, and then possibly appear in a game, there simply isn't a (simple or easy or foolproof) way to safely throw with an instructor. It just increases the chance of injury. And let's be honest, a lot of teenagers suck at communicating, so knowing if or when they threw outside of us is difficult.

2. No missing practice time for private instruction.

We're like Cabbage in that if you're being taught something different we want to know about it. We don't give ultimatums at all, but we like to know the "why" behind what a kid is being taught. Up to the kid ultimately what he does. 

One other note on this — we have two coaches total running our varsity and JV teams. One of my favorite things about them is they know what they don't know. They know a lot about baseball, but neither is specifically a pitching coach. Son communicates what he is doing with outside coaching, and I think even during the season, if he were struggling, they'd be okay with him working with outside pitching coach to straighten it out.

Communication really is key, and everyone knowing his role. Including mom. 

Iowamom23 posted:
ironhorse posted:

I like our kids getting outside instruction, no doubt. We have 2 rules pertaining to them in season:

1. No pitching lessons in-season. We have a pretty structured pen schedule to keep our kids sharp, and we know the most likely days they'll be throwing in games. If they throw 1 (sometimes 2 ) pens with us, and then possibly appear in a game, there simply isn't a (simple or easy or foolproof) way to safely throw with an instructor. It just increases the chance of injury. And let's be honest, a lot of teenagers suck at communicating, so knowing if or when they threw outside of us is difficult.

2. No missing practice time for private instruction.

We're like Cabbage in that if you're being taught something different we want to know about it. We don't give ultimatums at all, but we like to know the "why" behind what a kid is being taught. Up to the kid ultimately what he does. 

One other note on this — we have two coaches total running our varsity and JV teams. One of my favorite things about them is they know what they don't know. They know a lot about baseball, but neither is specifically a pitching coach. Son communicates what he is doing with outside coaching, and I think even during the season, if he were struggling, they'd be okay with him working with outside pitching coach to straighten it out.

Communication really is key, and everyone knowing his role. Including mom. 

That would also affect the outside instruction scenario.  My sons school has 5 coaches, including three D1 and one MiLB guy, all of which have 5+ years of successful coaching under their belt. That goes a long way in why I don't mind the outside coaching is a no-no during season edict.

cabbagedad posted:
Smitty28 posted:

Hey Smitty,

Glad to share my perspective but I should first point out that I have a different take on how I look at HS baseball than you do.  Nothing wrong with that and I am aware that I have an obvious bias as a coach.  I don't look at HS ball as a means to an end.  I take into consideration that most HS players at most schools won't go on to play college ball and their HS experience may very well be the height of their competitive playing days.  I also find HS ball to be special and unique -many other ways, including playing for your school that all your family and friends went to, playing for your community, long-standing cross-town rivalries, etc.  I feel I would be cheating the players of a very special experience if I treated it as just a means to an end... just a pipeline to the next level.  It deserves billing as the main event that it is for so many.  In fact, as I stay in close touch with our many players who do go on to play in college successfully, most have a HS ball experience as their  best baseball memory.  For many, beating their crosstown rival in HS carries more cred than making the conference semi's in college, even though the latter is an achievement at a higher level.  College ball is special in it's own way but it is also where it really starts to become more of a job and some of the hometown community thing is often lost. 

OK, so with that said...

Generally, HS players will benefit a great deal from finding good instructors and trainers to work with outside of the HS program.  I think most everyone recognizes this.  A few of the potential pitfalls of balancing private lessons and training during the baseball season are conflicting instruction, scheduling conflict and the health of the player.

For us, the big key is communication and commitment.  We encourage outside instruction and training (including during season) but constantly discuss the importance of speaking up when the player runs across instruction that seems to conflict.  We explain that there are often more than one "right" ways, different ways to convey the same message coming from different angles or using different terminology.  In the rare occasion when there actually is a different mechanic being taught, we try to explain the differences and determine which will work best for the player.  As you said, at the end of the day, they have to perform.  We try to be a part of an environment where the player can learn to identify and separate the absolutes from the other aspects where he can take the most helpful teaches from each source and really benefit from a variety of coaching and training.  Obviously, there has to be a hierarchy to the player's commitment and during the HS season, it must be with his HS team.  So, while he is encouraged to continue his outside instruction, it must be scheduled outside of the team required practice time.  With pitching, of course, this becomes much more challenging because pitching lessons involve pitching and the player must be fresh for his HS team bullpens and games.   This is far more difficult to achieve while maintaining proper arm care.  If there is a P who is not getting innings with the HS program, it can be more doable.  Again, communication is key.

 

Hi Cabbage, thanks for the thoughtful response.  Your position is very reasonable, and I think your view of HS ball is very reasonable and appropriate.  My view is somewhat colored by the fact that my kid goes to a very small private school where sports are, to some kids, extracurricular activities while to others they are extremely important and supplemented by lots of outside training.  With that said, I commend your willingness to take a holistic approach to the players development and incorporate education of the mechanics into the mix.  I would welcome your approach.  I'm sure your kids are better for it.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

1. How are you and your staff going to make him a better player?

2. What systems or practice routines do you use for position players and pitchers.

3. Will you put the best 9 on the field?

The best 9 and the 9 best are two different things and I am not sure a lot realize that.  Coaches tend to play the best 9

 

d8 posted:
Shoveit4Ks posted:

1. How are you and your staff going to make him a better player?

2. What systems or practice routines do you use for position players and pitchers.

3. Will you put the best 9 on the field?

The best 9 and the 9 best are two different things and I am not sure a lot realize that.  Coaches tend to play the best 9

 

Haven't heard it put that way before, but a real good explanation on putting a team together.

ironhorse posted:

So Johnny gets in trouble for a picture with one beer?

What about passed out drunk at a party?

What about drunk at a school function?

What about smoking one joint? 

What about holding a joint in a picture but not smoking it?

What about prescription pills?

What about cocaine?

What about sexual assault? (I mean, we're "remembering what high school kids are like", right?)

It may seem like a "real world" policy, but the real world has a slightly detailed penal code and judges and lawyers and due process and blah, blah, blah.

I have trouble convincing parents that they're kid hitting.118 with 20 K's shouldn't start at 1b. You think I 'm going to spend days and weeks creating a sliding scale policy of offenses that most adults have different views on anyway? And then when a kid gets in trouble try and explain the parents and the kids in the program why one offense is better or worse than another? No thanks.

If you're dumb enough to have pictures of yourself on social media doing illegal things that's on you.

 

 

 

>I have trouble convincing parents that they're kid hitting.118 with 20 K's shouldn't start at 1b.<

 

We have the opposite problem.  Coaches brother hitting .118 with 20k's starting DH and when he gets his 21st K watching in the playoffs to end the gam, the HC throws baseballs at the umpires, while parents scream and follow umpires to the parking lot

What I want to hear from a coach:  Facts about how many kids may make the team, what the cut schedule will be, what the lines of communication are.

Then I want to see them keep their word.  Programs I've been involved with have sometimes found that challenging.  Extremely frustrating for parents.

Red cup issue: As far as I know the team coaches leave the discipline stuff up to the school.  If a kid shows up hungover at practice, coach may have him run poles, but he will also pass the kid along to administrative staff for consequences.  If a kid shows up to school stoned or drunk they can expect to be expelled because they're violating the expectations of the school day. If the school is made aware of a major rager over the weekend, parent hosts are asked to meet with senior administrators as are their children.  Serious counseling takes place, and expectations are explained: this can't happen again, or the school will require a separation of the family from the school.  School will not go looking for trouble (i.e. scour instagram and other social media for salacious details) but the school will also not ignore it if trouble lands at its feet.  This approach keeps the coach out of it, but also requires that there be a lot of trust and transparency between the coaching staff and the administration.  Frankly, sometimes it works beautifully, and sometimes it fails spectacularly.

I agree and respect everyone's perspectives. But I think it's silly something wrong with current laws that an 18 year old can fight and die for our country but can't drink a beer or a glass of wine.  I've taught my son how to drink and have warned him many a times about how not to become addicted. My rule is simple never drink during the week drink only on the weekends and never ever day before games or practice.        

Whew,  I am happy after 9 years of HS baseball , this is the last year.  Will I miss it... not really. 

I just had a meeting with the HS coach, I suggested that 2018 throw no more than 48 innings with a pitch count of 80 .... once he hits 80 pitches he's out... once he throws 48 innings he's done. Counting  warm up and between innings that's well over 5000 pitches in the span of 100 days.

He was not overly thrilled at the idea. 

 

bacdorslider posted:

Whew,  I am happy after 9 years of HS baseball , this is the last year.  Will I miss it... not really. 

I just had a meeting with the HS coach, I suggested that 2018 throw no more than 48 innings with a pitch count of 80 .... once he hits 80 pitches he's out... once he throws 48 innings he's done. Counting  warm up and between innings that's well over 5000 pitches in the span of 100 days.

He was not overly thrilled at the idea. 

 

Can you provide the math on the 5000?  48 innings does seem somewhat light over the course of 15 weeks and the 5000/48 combo infers 100 pitches per inning to include pre-game, inning warm up and actual live pitches.

Assuming 15 starts (1x week), 5 innings per game with 75 pitches/game gets me to somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,500 on the top end.  What am I missing?  Mid-week bullpens?

bacdorslider posted:

Whew,  I am happy after 9 years of HS baseball , this is the last year.  Will I miss it... not really. 

I just had a meeting with the HS coach, I suggested that 2018 throw no more than 48 innings with a pitch count of 80 .... once he hits 80 pitches he's out... once he throws 48 innings he's done. Counting  warm up and between innings that's well over 5000 pitches in the span of 100 days.

He was not overly thrilled at the idea. 

 

If they don't understand pitcher's arm care then there's a different problem going on.   

Well as  I mentioned before after 9 years of HS baseball....... In the beginning of the season all is fine.... then when the pressure to win comes into play he makes game time decisions that are not in the interest of the players long term care.

I am not telling him when to pitch 2018 just that if we are early in the season and beating a team 10-0 in the fourth inning take him out.  Let another pitcher get some exp.  Last year we had many pitchers , this year we have 1 maybe 2  and a bunch of younger pitchers.

bacdorslider posted:

Well as  I mentioned before after 9 years of HS baseball....... In the beginning of the season all is fine.... then when the pressure to win comes into play he makes game time decisions that are not in the interest of the players long term care.

I am not telling him when to pitch 2018 just that if we are early in the season and beating a team 10-0 in the fourth inning take him out.  Let another pitcher get some exp.  Last year we had many pitchers , this year we have 1 maybe 2  and a bunch of younger pitchers.

How's the offense? Hopefully you can be in many of those 10-0 situations . . .

bacdorslider posted:

Well as  I mentioned before after 9 years of HS baseball....... In the beginning of the season all is fine.... then when the pressure to win comes into play he makes game time decisions that are not in the interest of the players long term care.

I am not telling him when to pitch 2018 just that if we are early in the season and beating a team 10-0 in the fourth inning take him out.  Let another pitcher get some exp.  Last year we had many pitchers , this year we have 1 maybe 2  and a bunch of younger pitchers.

I suspect your kid is #1 and there is, in polite terms, a "significant drop off" after him.  Hopefully some of the others will step up and perhaps the game schedule will work in his favor.  Hopefully he can get those 80 in over the 100 days and not have 70 of them in the last half of the season.  I suggest that once he gets to 65 pitches in a game that he throws at least 11 more - don't want him getting pulled right at 75 on the dot.

CaCO3Girl posted:

I'll chime in as well since my son's school doesn't allow lessons during the season and is very very adamant about it.  He went into detail in the parent meeting about it.  He basically said:

"We will be practicing with your boys 5-6 days a week.  We know how much they are throwing, we do not want additional throwing, not even long toss, out of our view.  We work them hard, and often, no other training is needed.  Also, while I realize some of you have instructors you like I'd be willing to bet money some of you have instructors that are not teaching valuable things.  So then your kid comes into the cage, my hitting coach tries to tell them to do it this way, your kid says my instructor doesn't like it that way.  This causes a rift in the team dynamic.  All of my coaches trust and believe in what we are doing, and have your kids best interest at heart, but we need them to try things our way.  If after the season they want to revert to their old swing that is fine. In season we have one voice and I'd appreciate it if I didn't have to take up valuable practice time arguing over which way is better, so please for these 3-4 months can we do without lessons?"

My son has said they are open to talking about what works best for each kid.  He has tight hips, he is allowed to swing differently than a kid that has super loose hits.  They aren't trying to say there is only one way for these 40+ kids to swing, they just don't want to fight for space in the kids head on how to swing properly.  With 3 games a week, and multiple practice days a week, they also don't want a kid pitching any more than that.  They have lowered the state pitch count for the JV team as it is, because they are very concerned with over use.  I don't mind their approach, and neither does my kid.

The problem with that approach is there is no way they are changing a kids swing in a short high school season.  So any talk about new swing old swing is pure BS.  They can make minor adjustments which may or may not help.  Most players are tinkering with their swings on a regular basis. 

I want to know what you're thinking about the team. What's your plan. Speed.  Ground balls to 2b.  Home runs.  Offense v defense.  Say what you will and be truthful. If you claim you're playing to win, then please play the best team. Don't put a "catcher" back there who can't block because little johnnys mommy says he's s catcher (while your best catcher sits on the bench).  

Golfman25 posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

I'll chime in as well since my son's school doesn't allow lessons during the season and is very very adamant about it.  He went into detail in the parent meeting about it.  He basically said:

"We will be practicing with your boys 5-6 days a week.  We know how much they are throwing, we do not want additional throwing, not even long toss, out of our view.  We work them hard, and often, no other training is needed.  Also, while I realize some of you have instructors you like I'd be willing to bet money some of you have instructors that are not teaching valuable things.  So then your kid comes into the cage, my hitting coach tries to tell them to do it this way, your kid says my instructor doesn't like it that way.  This causes a rift in the team dynamic.  All of my coaches trust and believe in what we are doing, and have your kids best interest at heart, but we need them to try things our way.  If after the season they want to revert to their old swing that is fine. In season we have one voice and I'd appreciate it if I didn't have to take up valuable practice time arguing over which way is better, so please for these 3-4 months can we do without lessons?"

My son has said they are open to talking about what works best for each kid.  He has tight hips, he is allowed to swing differently than a kid that has super loose hits.  They aren't trying to say there is only one way for these 40+ kids to swing, they just don't want to fight for space in the kids head on how to swing properly.  With 3 games a week, and multiple practice days a week, they also don't want a kid pitching any more than that.  They have lowered the state pitch count for the JV team as it is, because they are very concerned with over use.  I don't mind their approach, and neither does my kid.

The problem with that approach is there is no way they are changing a kids swing in a short high school season.  So any talk about new swing old swing is pure BS.  They can make minor adjustments which may or may not help.  Most players are tinkering with their swings on a regular basis. 

From the limited amount that I've heard, I am dealing with a 15 year old male, the changes they request are minor for the most part. I did hear about one kid that was waving his bat around like mad prior to becoming balanced....and this was during tryouts, coach asked him to stop it and the kid couldn't.  He didn't make it.  My son was asked to adjust how he coils his hips, I.e. not coil so far, and it's worked better for him.

Having been on both sides of the fence.  Been a head coach and now just a parent again.

What do you expect from me?   What do you expect from my son?

What are your rules? 

I want it all upfront.  Remember, some of your parents have had different rules with different coaches so don't assume. 

 

 

Ok, so I've tried to stay out of this thread and read the responses to what people want to hear from a HS Coach.  Please forgive me but I have never been politically correct and so, this response won't be.  

First, used to hand out a 6 page document on our program which introduced the coaches, both player and parent expectations, our code of conduct per school regulations and our schedule.  Also contained was the method of communication I would follow should a parent want to have a meeting with me.  It would involve meeting in the AD's office with the AD in attendance as well as a statement that in any meeting, I would not talk about any other players on the team.  (As some of you know, often parents want to complain about Jon Jon's playing time and he was super de duper All Stars and started over Ralphie Boy so I must not know what I am doing.)  

In a couple of weeks, we are going to hold a parent meeting but now I am coaching softball.  It will start and end with the same recommendation but one of which is serious in tone.  It will go something like this, "If you don't like what the coaching staff is doing, who we are coaching, what your expert says different than what we coach or other concerns like playing time, be the parent and remove your child from this program."  

I can't comment on baseball in other areas but  have mentioned several times on this site that in my area and, in particular in my school, if I don't win, I will get fired.  I'm not leaving that up to your expert to coach whatever they want to coach when it goes against what I know to be the most up to date and best stuff around on how to play the game.  Your "expert" is hardly that in most cases.  I'll save the cruder and harsher remarks about "experts."  Some in this thread have comment about you and your son and that the coach needs to leave your son alone.  So, we have 20 sets of parents.  That potentially means 20 sets of "experts" who coach a wide variety of philosophies from how to pitch to how to swing the bat.  To be blunt, I will mention, as I do every year, that a parent can have their "expert" write out their lineup and I'll write out mine and lets see which team gets on the field.  We will play 34 games.  We will practice every day that we don't have a game with the exception of Sundays.  If you think that your coach, or me for my parents does not know what we are going, why in God's Green Earth, would you allow them to be ruined by me/HS Coaches.  Get them to their expert and summer coach and enjoy life.  

I've seen it all in my 31 years of HS coaching.  I've coached tremendous athletes who have won state titles and gone on to play professionally.  I've coached baseball internationally in the former Soviet Union.  My child went on to be a 2 time All American.  This is not my first rodeo and yet, there will be those who know more but haven't produce.  I'll stop venting now.  Hope I haven't made too many enemies. 

Take care,

Darrell Butler  

CoachB25 posted:

Ok, so I've tried to stay out of this thread and read the responses to what people want to hear from a HS Coach.  Please forgive me but I have never been politically correct and so, this response won't be.  

First, used to hand out a 6 page document on our program which introduced the coaches, both player and parent expectations, our code of conduct per school regulations and our schedule.  Also contained was the method of communication I would follow should a parent want to have a meeting with me.  It would involve meeting in the AD's office with the AD in attendance as well as a statement that in any meeting, I would not talk about any other players on the team.  (As some of you know, often parents want to complain about Jon Jon's playing time and he was super de duper All Stars and started over Ralphie Boy so I must not know what I am doing.)  

In a couple of weeks, we are going to hold a parent meeting but now I am coaching softball.  It will start and end with the same recommendation but one of which is serious in tone.  It will go something like this, "If you don't like what the coaching staff is doing, who we are coaching, what your expert says different than what we coach or other concerns like playing time, be the parent and remove your child from this program."  

I can't comment on baseball in other areas but  have mentioned several times on this site that in my area and, in particular in my school, if I don't win, I will get fired.  I'm not leaving that up to your expert to coach whatever they want to coach when it goes against what I know to be the most up to date and best stuff around on how to play the game.  Your "expert" is hardly that in most cases.  I'll save the cruder and harsher remarks about "experts."  Some in this thread have comment about you and your son and that the coach needs to leave your son alone.  So, we have 20 sets of parents.  That potentially means 20 sets of "experts" who coach a wide variety of philosophies from how to pitch to how to swing the bat.  To be blunt, I will mention, as I do every year, that a parent can have their "expert" write out their lineup and I'll write out mine and lets see which team gets on the field.  We will play 34 games.  We will practice every day that we don't have a game with the exception of Sundays.  If you think that your coach, or me for my parents does not know what we are going, why in God's Green Earth, would you allow them to be ruined by me/HS Coaches.  Get them to their expert and summer coach and enjoy life.  

I've seen it all in my 31 years of HS coaching.  I've coached tremendous athletes who have won state titles and gone on to play professionally.  I've coached baseball internationally in the former Soviet Union.  My child went on to be a 2 time All American.  This is not my first rodeo and yet, there will be those who know more but haven't produce.  I'll stop venting now.  Hope I haven't made too many enemies. 

Take care,

Darrell Butler  

The difference is, you win.  What about a program the purports to "play to win" but doesn't in fact win?  Nothing is more frustrating for the "arm chair coach" than watching a guy who shouldn't be there making decisions which have no basis in fact. 

Golfman25 posted:
CoachB25 posted:

Ok, so I've tried to stay out of this thread and read the responses to what people want to hear from a HS Coach.  Please forgive me but I have never been politically correct and so, this response won't be.  

First, used to hand out a 6 page document on our program which introduced the coaches, both player and parent expectations, our code of conduct per school regulations and our schedule.  Also contained was the method of communication I would follow should a parent want to have a meeting with me.  It would involve meeting in the AD's office with the AD in attendance as well as a statement that in any meeting, I would not talk about any other players on the team.  (As some of you know, often parents want to complain about Jon Jon's playing time and he was super de duper All Stars and started over Ralphie Boy so I must not know what I am doing.)  

In a couple of weeks, we are going to hold a parent meeting but now I am coaching softball.  It will start and end with the same recommendation but one of which is serious in tone.  It will go something like this, "If you don't like what the coaching staff is doing, who we are coaching, what your expert says different than what we coach or other concerns like playing time, be the parent and remove your child from this program."  

I can't comment on baseball in other areas but  have mentioned several times on this site that in my area and, in particular in my school, if I don't win, I will get fired.  I'm not leaving that up to your expert to coach whatever they want to coach when it goes against what I know to be the most up to date and best stuff around on how to play the game.  Your "expert" is hardly that in most cases.  I'll save the cruder and harsher remarks about "experts."  Some in this thread have comment about you and your son and that the coach needs to leave your son alone.  So, we have 20 sets of parents.  That potentially means 20 sets of "experts" who coach a wide variety of philosophies from how to pitch to how to swing the bat.  To be blunt, I will mention, as I do every year, that a parent can have their "expert" write out their lineup and I'll write out mine and lets see which team gets on the field.  We will play 34 games.  We will practice every day that we don't have a game with the exception of Sundays.  If you think that your coach, or me for my parents does not know what we are going, why in God's Green Earth, would you allow them to be ruined by me/HS Coaches.  Get them to their expert and summer coach and enjoy life.  

I've seen it all in my 31 years of HS coaching.  I've coached tremendous athletes who have won state titles and gone on to play professionally.  I've coached baseball internationally in the former Soviet Union.  My child went on to be a 2 time All American.  This is not my first rodeo and yet, there will be those who know more but haven't produce.  I'll stop venting now.  Hope I haven't made too many enemies. 

Take care,

Darrell Butler  

The difference is, you win.  What about a program the purports to "play to win" but doesn't in fact win?  Nothing is more frustrating for the "arm chair coach" than watching a guy who shouldn't be there making decisions which have no basis in fact. 

I think he covered that with the:

" If you think that your coach, or me for my parents does not know what we are doing, why in God's Green Earth, would you allow them to be ruined by me/HS Coaches. Get them to their expert and summer coach and enjoy life. "

Statement.

Golfman, we have talked about this several times and I know your situation was horrible.  I admit I have never been in that position.  As I  mentioned, I was venting some.  I tried to show restraint when discussing HS Coaches and "experts."  I guess I didn't do too well.  LOL

Take care!

CoachB25 posted:

Golfman, we have talked about this several times and I know your situation was horrible.  I admit I have never been in that position.  As I  mentioned, I was venting some.  I tried to show restraint when discussing HS Coaches and "experts."  I guess I didn't do too well.  LOL

Take care!

No it's cool.  Much easier to believe the words out of a good coach than some other windbags.  I find the real goods ones don't have many problems, well because they are good.   

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