A friend of my sons was already cut as a freshman at his new college. The coach said he over-recruited. My son is also being considered for the Class of 2018 AFTER the coach decides how many of the incoming freshmen he is going to cut. Is this the norm? The 2017s are just now playing Fall Baseball. In his friend's case, he will never experience a college game?
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c5tx posted:A friend of my sons was already cut as a freshman at his new college. The coach said he over-recruited. My son is also being considered for the Class of 2018 AFTER the coach decides how many of the incoming freshmen he is going to cut. Is this the norm? The 2017s are just now playing Fall Baseball. In his friend's case, he will never experience a college game?
If your friends son was already cut before the the end of semester it wasn't because the coach over recruited or he had an athletic scholarship. What division? Be more specific please.
This isn't normalike, but to answer your question, often D3 AND JUCO coaches over recruit, knowing the will cut players.
D3 for friend's son. Coach told him he over-recruited; and cut him.
But the other college is a D1 that is considering my son. Looked back in history and they cut 3-4 freshman every year. Big red flag.
I remember you posted a question about "no response" from coaches and got some good feedback and things eventually worked out. Similarly, there are a ton of reasons not visible (at least at first glance) to us outsiders why college coaches must over-recruit to an extent. That extent varies. You have to think about the process... they wish to recruit the best players they can for all positional needs and have plenty of depth to allow for injuries, grades, poor performance, leave school, etc. Answers from players don't all come in a timely manner. They have to have plan B thru Z. They can't afford to come up short. It is impossible to get it exactly right. They can afford to come up with too many.
Freshman year cuts are very real. Sometimes they are massive blood baths. They happen later years as well. It is important that your son have good direct dialog with the HC about where he sees him fitting in the program before he accepts an offer. Getting some athletic scholarship $ is at least some skin in the game on their part. Even then, it is still 100% up to your son to then show up and deliver on what the HC thinks he saw in him. And then, he has to keep doing it day in and day out. And then, the next year (or even over the winter break), new recruits will be brought in. It is also the coaching staff's job to bring in better players than the ones they have.
When son knows this is the reality and embraces it, he will be in the best position to flourish in the environment of actively earning his spot every day for the next four or five years.
Regarding your comment - "My son is also being considered for the Class of 2018 AFTER the coach decides how many of the incoming freshmen he is going to cut. Is this the norm?" ...
Well, as stated, it's not out of the norm to cut freshmen. But, for me, that's a new way to tell a recruit you are delaying his offer. Strange, IMO.
Agree with you...players must work hard...the tryout never ends. Just trying to learn how things are these days. A good friend played D1 at a major college back in the 90s. I asked him...and he said they redshirted kids; but never cut them. Some left for academic reasons...but no cuts. Just wondering if it is the norm for coaches to over-recruit and plan on cutting? I don't think it was that way years ago.
When I see this type of conversation I start thinking of the importance of "fit", whether it be a D1 player going to a D3 or not. Was it the right college aside from baseball? These college coaches are searching for the best players to put on their roster, regardless of D1 or D3. Coach's have a job, and doing well at said job, will potentially lead to a better job and higher paying job. The sooner that players and their parents understand this, the better off they'll be. This is probably the reason some D3's are much better than some D1's; players found a fit where they could thrive as a student, as well as a player. Plenty of D1 kids on top D3 rosters.
And, I wish my kid hadn't been a late bloomer...or that we hadn't been off on the recruiting timeline...
He will be fine; solid D1 skills that will prevail at a D3 matched up with a top education prepared for the future.
Great stuff on this site.
This has been a good reminder - have seen a lot on over recruiting, but not much on cutting. Cabbage, thanks for the great advice as usual. And as I see here at least once a week, the "Go where you're loved" mantra makes perfect sense.
"Go where you're loved..." I think that might be the right decision. Thanks.
Even if a coach doesn’t cut players who wants to be player #40 on a roster? College ball isn’t about getting on a roster. It’s about receiving the opportunity to earn your way on to the field and stay there. Being on the back end of a roster is no guarantee of getting an opportunity.
Was the D3 a recruited player?
FYI, any freshman who signed an NLI at a D1 or D2 program normally will not be cut his first season.
Any freshman who walked onto a program (no NLI) can easily be cut end of the semester.
You can only carry 35 on the roster. Would you bring in 35 players with a max of 35 allowed? How many would you actually end up with after the fall? Academic casualties? Injuries? Players who don't get with the program and have to be excused for a multitude of reasons? It is very easy to only look at this from the players perspective.
If you are an incoming freshman getting money you are safe the first year unless academic issues or disciplinary issues arise. But after that all bets are off. When you look around at the start of the fall season and there are 42 players present everyone knows they better get after it and be on point because at least 7 guys will not be there after the fall. This creates a very competitive environment and incentive to not give the staff a reason to make you one of those 7 guys that have to be gone. If everyone were to look around and see 35 guys at the start of the fall season would the environment be the same?
Coaches want enough players available to be able to have some choices to make. I can tell you at the JUCO level you will see 60 to 70 guys at some programs when the fall starts. At the D2 level 40 to 50 is not uncommon. The bottom line is very few players are going to have things go exactly as they would like them to go. If you are one of those 35 players great. Now how many of those 35 players are going to have a significant role? Only 9 or 10 position players are actually going to play. Out of those pitchers how many are going to get significant innings?
College baseball is tough. You better be tough. You better come in squared away. You better show value on the field and no issues off the field. Otherwise be prepared to deal with a host of issues.
Some great replies here but I think some are dancing around the original topic a little here.
Yes, many (not all) college coaches are over recruiting these days and cutting players. And it happens at D1's in the form of players being pressured to transfer out, being told they won't play etc
This is partly a symptom of kids committing at early ages and the NCAA coaches having only guesses as to which 9th & 10th graders are going straight to the MLB draft, which will be contributors, and which will be busts. Lots of projection of 14 & 15 year olds going on and it is out of control.
Yes. It is happening. Yes, it is a problem.
c5tx posted:D3 for friend's son. Coach told him he over-recruited; and cut him.
But the other college is a D1 that is considering my son. Looked back in history and they cut 3-4 freshman every year. Big red flag.
You say "cut", but there may be much more to the story and you can't necessarily draw the simple conclusion that a coach will over recruit with plans to cut. For example, are you certain that the 3-4 you mention were actually cut and didn't simply choose to leave on their own? Were they red-shirted? Injured?
A few examples. A HS teammate of my son's has already left his team (staying at the school). In a nutshell, he wasn't cut out for this particular program. At my son's school, a couple of freshmen are hearing about possible red-shirting next season. Another is having surgery, so a medical red-shirt is planned.
When you hear of 3-4 being cut, it's important to know if those were scholarship or walk-on players. Not typical that scholarship guys would be cut in freshman fall season.
My point is that there's probably a lot more backstory that will bring context to what you're seeing. Based on fully understanding the situation, you can see how those might impact your son, i.e. if he's scholarship and all the cuts have been walk-on players, then probably a fairly safe assumption he wouldn't be cut in the fall.
With all this drama I don't understand why more kids don't take the JUCO route.
And as 3and2 points out, over recruiting is a reality at all levels. That will lead to players being cut, "encouraged" to leave (no playing time, told in advance no playing time, etc), etc. It is a reality. I don't think that early recruiting is as much of the problem as I think those early recruits that don't develop simply never see an LOI from that school. I think the early recruiting will lead to more decommits in baseball than we've seen before.
Some coaches are known for over recruiting and cutting, so certainly understand the history of the programs your son is considering, and to my earlier point, make sure you understand the real history and context of what you see.
CaCO3Girl posted:With all this drama I don't understand why more kids don't take the JUCO route.
Do you believe that there's no drama at JUCO? So they can carry a roster of 60 and you don't think there's drama when 9 can be on the field at a time? Sounds a lot like HS where (sarcasm font key lock on) there's never any drama.
Nuke83 posted:CaCO3Girl posted:With all this drama I don't understand why more kids don't take the JUCO route.
Do you believe that there's no drama at JUCO? So they can carry a roster of 60 and you don't think there's drama when 9 can be on the field at a time? Sounds a lot like HS where (sarcasm font key lock on) there's never any drama.
Can we get a drama free emoji?
Coach May nailed it. If your son is entering the world of college athletics...baseball, he (and you) had better be tough. At all times and at all levels.
If you cannot cut it academically, you will be gone soon enough. If you cannot separate yourself as a contributing member of the team on the field, you will be gone eventually. If you are looking for any guarantees, you are fooling yourself.
Coaches do not have time to carry players that they don't think help them achieve their mission....winning baseball games and graduating players. (Likewise, players who find themselves not contributing get frustrated and are usually bad for team chemistry - making the coach's job harder and the player very unhappy).
Its a tryout every minute your son is on the field, in the classroom, on campus. Whether he has a scholarship or not, he must prove himself...then re-prove himself time and time again.
If you believe its a red flag, then you have to believe its a red flag for all of college athletics. There are simply no guarantees. This is not recent, it has been this way for sure since our older son entered in 2004.
CaCO3Girl posted:With all this drama I don't understand why more kids don't take the JUCO route.
Juco at some levels is no picnic either. you have 2 years and you have to contribute right away.
