Is it now the norm for Coaches to over-recruit knowing they will cut players?

AD2018 posted:

Everyone is different.  There are probably 40-50 DI programs most kids would die to play for...even if it's just to ride the bench.  After that, other factors start to come into play that are not about Baseball.  For highly successful academic kids there's a point where mid to low D1s offer such an inferior (sorry to be harsh on this) academic experience that the D3 school is a much better overall option.  If it was just about Baseball, sure you'd take a D1 opportunity every time.

 This seems pretty clear to me.

2019Dad posted:
SEC Hopeful posted:
Stats4Gnats posted:

SEC Hopeful posted: … I just think it is silly to say "my kid has D1 talent and is on a D3 roster because he was overlooked." If you are on a D3 roster, you are D3 talent. D1 roster means D1 talent. …

 It’s thinking like that which has perpetuated so many myths in the game. What it’s really saying is all schools get a meaningful look at all players, no errors in judgement of talent are ever made, and no players playing at a “lower” level school could possibly play at a higher level let alone have success at that level.

 Get real!

All the nay Sayers seem to have kids who "chose D3 over D1"...so where are the posters at who had D3 and D1 offers who chose D1? Haven't heard them yet I don't think because they aren't trying to justify themselves.

You seem to have a hard time believing that there are people who might have a different outlook than you do -- you seem to think that anyone who is not an "SEC hopeful" like you is being disingenuous. You're wrong.

Not being nasty or mean....just saying that the proof is in the pudding. Where are the families on this board who have had both D1 and D3 offer who have chosen D1?

2019Dad posted:
#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Perhaps to further define a HSBBWeb "unicorn" more clearly, is a kid who is highly focused on the academic component of the recruitment choice.  Gov and Fenway shed light on that aspect, and it is a VITAL component of the choice for a lot of kids.   All too often the "go where you're loved" mantra (I believe) is geared toward who is showing you the best scholarship, best academic money, or whatever.   My son found himself in a position where he was courting high academic D-3s and some reasonably high academic D-1s.  Had offers from several D-1s, one was 50% (athletic and baseball), and another 80% (academic and baseball).  But was still on verge of accepting a very  high academic D-3 with $0 due solely to the quality of education and degree.  

At last minute an offer from a high academic D-1 came in and son took that.  So mine was almost a unicorn, and I would have been thrilled if he was.  BTW, the one D-3 he was on verge of committing to was a California LAC that had a guy drafted in 5th Rd last year.   So I guess he'd be a unicorn too?

 

As the AD at my son's HS said in a parent meeting about recruiting: 

Just as a side note, nice that you have those. Not sure our AD has anything to do with anyone's recruiting, which is sad.

SEC Hopeful posted:
2019Dad posted:
SEC Hopeful posted:
Stats4Gnats posted:

SEC Hopeful posted: … I just think it is silly to say "my kid has D1 talent and is on a D3 roster because he was overlooked." If you are on a D3 roster, you are D3 talent. D1 roster means D1 talent. …

 It’s thinking like that which has perpetuated so many myths in the game. What it’s really saying is all schools get a meaningful look at all players, no errors in judgement of talent are ever made, and no players playing at a “lower” level school could possibly play at a higher level let alone have success at that level.

 Get real!

All the nay Sayers seem to have kids who "chose D3 over D1"...so where are the posters at who had D3 and D1 offers who chose D1? Haven't heard them yet I don't think because they aren't trying to justify themselves.

You seem to have a hard time believing that there are people who might have a different outlook than you do -- you seem to think that anyone who is not an "SEC hopeful" like you is being disingenuous. You're wrong.

Not being nasty or mean....just saying that the proof is in the pudding. Where are the families on this board who have had both D1 and D3 offer who have chosen D1?

Maybe you are looking for something that is very rare.

Let's say a kid has Power 5 talent, or more broadly speaking, talent enough to attract top 100 schools... this kid will likely get offers and make a decision long before D3s enter the picture.

If the kid has moderate talent (enough to interest D1s ranked 100-300) and not great academics, he's probably going to target lower level D1s.  I don't hear much about low-academic D3s so I don't imagine D3 would be in the mix for this kid.

Let's say the kid has lots of talent and great academics... perhaps he's a candidate for Ivy or Patriot league.  Given the difficulty of getting into these schools the kid will probably also widen his net to include D3s.  This kid has both D1 and D3 options.  In this case he may very well need to choose between D1 and D3, and I think many would opt for Ivy or Patriot D1s over D3.  So this seems to be who you are looking for.

If the kid has moderate talent and strong academics, I don't see him picking a low-level D1 with average-to-low academics over a strong academic D3.  This seems to be where most of the disagreement lies in this thread.

Smitty28 posted:
SEC Hopeful posted:
2019Dad posted:
SEC Hopeful posted:
Stats4Gnats posted:

SEC Hopeful posted: … I just think it is silly to say "my kid has D1 talent and is on a D3 roster because he was overlooked." If you are on a D3 roster, you are D3 talent. D1 roster means D1 talent. …

 It’s thinking like that which has perpetuated so many myths in the game. What it’s really saying is all schools get a meaningful look at all players, no errors in judgement of talent are ever made, and no players playing at a “lower” level school could possibly play at a higher level let alone have success at that level.

 Get real!

All the nay Sayers seem to have kids who "chose D3 over D1"...so where are the posters at who had D3 and D1 offers who chose D1? Haven't heard them yet I don't think because they aren't trying to justify themselves.

You seem to have a hard time believing that there are people who might have a different outlook than you do -- you seem to think that anyone who is not an "SEC hopeful" like you is being disingenuous. You're wrong.

Not being nasty or mean....just saying that the proof is in the pudding. Where are the families on this board who have had both D1 and D3 offer who have chosen D1?

Maybe you are looking for something that is very rare.

Let's say a kid has Power 5 talent, or more broadly speaking, talent enough to attract top 100 schools... this kid will likely get offers and make a decision long before D3s enter the picture.

If the kid has moderate talent (enough to interest D1s ranked 100-300) and not great academics, he's probably going to target lower level D1s.  I don't hear much about low-academic D3s so I don't imagine D3 would be in the mix for this kid.

Let's say the kid has lots of talent and great academics... perhaps he's a candidate for Ivy or Patriot league.  Given the difficulty of getting into these schools the kid will probably also widen his net to include D3s.  This kid has both D1 and D3 options.  In this case he may very well need to choose between D1 and D3, and I think many would opt for Ivy or Patriot D1s over D3.  So this seems to be who you are looking for.

If the kid has moderate talent and strong academics, I don't see him picking a low-level D1 with average-to-low academics over a strong academic D3.  This seems to be where most of the disagreement lies in this thread.

Thanks Smitty. I think you've nailed it here. I hope that we've beat enough dead horses on this one. Can we just move on?

SEC Hopeful posted: All the nay Sayers seem to have kids who "chose D3 over D1"...so where are the posters at who had D3 and D1 offers who chose D1? Haven't heard them yet I don't think because they aren't trying to justify themselves.

 Your main problem is assuming an anonymous forum on the web with perhaps a few dozen active participants who have a son in either a D1 or D3 program and could have chosen either one, would spend much time trying to convince you that with the tens of thousands of kids going to college, there are one Hell of a lot of reasons for choosing a school that happens to be in a D3 classification rather than a D1.

 You’re living in one of those bubbles that doesn’t allow reality to penetrate it. And I’m not trying to be nasty or mean either.

SEC Hopeful posted:
2019Dad posted:
SEC Hopeful posted:
Stats4Gnats posted:

SEC Hopeful posted: … I just think it is silly to say "my kid has D1 talent and is on a D3 roster because he was overlooked." If you are on a D3 roster, you are D3 talent. D1 roster means D1 talent. …

 It’s thinking like that which has perpetuated so many myths in the game. What it’s really saying is all schools get a meaningful look at all players, no errors in judgement of talent are ever made, and no players playing at a “lower” level school could possibly play at a higher level let alone have success at that level.

 Get real!

All the nay Sayers seem to have kids who "chose D3 over D1"...so where are the posters at who had D3 and D1 offers who chose D1? Haven't heard them yet I don't think because they aren't trying to justify themselves.

You seem to have a hard time believing that there are people who might have a different outlook than you do -- you seem to think that anyone who is not an "SEC hopeful" like you is being disingenuous. You're wrong.

Not being nasty or mean....just saying that the proof is in the pudding. Where are the families on this board who have had both D1 and D3 offer who have chosen D1?

I do know of a couple families who made that choice.

Earlier you said some folks were lying to themselves, then you implied that posters here are  "justifying themselves".   

If that's not nasty or mean, then it's at the very least unkind.

I know kids who chose NESCACs over mediocre New England D1 programs. I know kids who chose Centennials over mediocre A10s. These were top academic kids who understood baseball was over after college. They were looking to position themselves for grad school not the draft.

There are a whole bunch of kids who develop "late" and are therefore not recruited by the D1 schools that would otherwise be on there radar.  MANY of these kids become every bit as talented as so many on D1 rosters even though they end up at other levels.  I'm not talking about the 8-10% of D1 guys who go on to get drafted but the rest of them, particularly those at schools other than the power 5's.

There are a whole bunch of kids who don't recognize baseball as being their target path definitively enough until later in the process and therefore have a weak recruiting plan as it relates to the typical D1 timeline.  There are many who have a weak (or non-existent) recruiting plan in general.  There are many who are not properly guided, cannot afford or do not, for a variety of other reasons take the right steps to be seen in time to be recruited by D1 schools.

There are many who are not willing to explore college options in large swaths of geographic regions.  Therefore, they eliminate themselves from possible D1 options.  Many of these players are more than capable of playing at some D1 programs.

There are many who end up at D2, D3, NAIA due to grades, location, and a host of other reasons who end up developing into D1 level players but choose not to change schools mid-stream just for baseball when they have made significant inroads with their academic pursuits at their current non-D1 schools.

There are many JC players in hotbeds who assume that, because they are getting so little D1 attention in their own hotbed region that there aren't D1 options for them elsewhere.  So they go another level.

There are players who play the wrong position at the wrong time as it relates to matching up with the needs of the few D1 schools they may be targeting.  So, they go another level.

There are players who's academic focus doesn't match up with what is offered at those D1 schools who express interest.  So, they go another level.

I could go on.  There is plenty of overlap.  "Unicorn" isn't accurate at all, in my observations.  It is certainly true that the Power 5 schools get more top shelf draft-worthy players and, yes, there is certainly general hierarchy.  But aside from that, there is a fair number of players who's skill sets overlap across all levels.  

AD2018 posted:

Everyone is different.  There are probably 40-50 DI programs most kids would die to play for...even if it's just to ride the bench.  ...  If it was just about Baseball, sure you'd take a D1 opportunity every time.

I respectfully disagree with this notion.  Yes, everyone is different.  And, yes, there are a few kids that would be OK with riding the bench at Big D1 U.  But most college players go to great lengths in work efforts and sacrifice to make it to a college roster.  Most achieve that accomplishment in large part by being very competitive.  Most of these athletes will not be satisfied with sitting on a bench for four years.  Of the small sub-set that is satisfied, many will either become dissatisfied by year two or be coaxed out of the program to make room for someone more determined and more capable of contributing.

cabbagedad posted:
AD2018 posted:

Everyone is different.  There are probably 40-50 DI programs most kids would die to play for...even if it's just to ride the bench.  ...  If it was just about Baseball, sure you'd take a D1 opportunity every time.

I respectfully disagree with this notion.  Yes, everyone is different.  And, yes, there are a few kids that would be OK with riding the bench at Big D1 U.  But most college players go to great lengths in work efforts and sacrifice to make it to a college roster.  Most achieve that accomplishment in large part by being very competitive.  Most of these athletes will not be satisfied with sitting on a bench for four years.  Of the small sub-set that is satisfied, many will either become dissatisfied by year two or be coaxed out of the program to make room for someone more determined and more capable of contributing.

This is very well said and shocking enough but not every kid wants to go a huge school. Some actually prefer the smaller campus and the benefits that go with it. 

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