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I wish my parents could have afforded to live on a golf course and give me the opportunity to be a golfer. I also hate I missed out on a Hockey career. I wish I could have had a new car in HS like some guys did. Boy there are so many opportunities I missed out on.

What I didn't miss out on? I had parents that were determined to give me opportunities they didn't have. So I was determined to give my guys opportunities I didn't have. I believe they will do the same. Isn't that what this is really about? Or is it simply unfair that some kids have parents that sacrifice for their kids and some don't? Unfair that some kids get opportunities that others don't? Shut down PG events unless everyone can do it. No one gets anything everyone can't have. Everyone gets it or it's unfair?

I have always felt that this was the deal. It's my job as a parent to raise my kids. It's my job as a parent to provide opportunity for my kids. It's their job to either take advantage of it or not. If someone can provide something for their kids that I can't for mine good for them. We will keep building this thing. We will have a creed that will define what it means to be a May. Each generation is responsible for carrying that creed forward. Protecting it. Making it even better.

What opportunity do you have? Ok make the absolute best of that opportunity. When your a parent build upon that. Make it even better for your children. Sacrifice and remember the most important responsibility you will ever have is raising a child. The opportunity they have is going to depend on you and those who have gone before you. Build it.

This idea that someone else is responsible to make sure you get opportunity is why were where we are. You had them. You know where you came from. You want more for them? Then stop looking for excuses. Stop looking for other people to give your responsibility opportunity. Build it. When we take personal responsibility for one's responsibilities out of the equation we get what we got. Good for you. You can provide awesome opportunities for your kid. And for those who can't provide those same opportunities start with the process.

Otherwise lets just do away with any motivation to achieve. Everyone gets the same thing no matter how hard they work. No matter what life decisions they make. No matter what they invest. It's not the kids fault. It's your fault. You came from nothing and did nothing about it. And now there coming from nothing and learning from you how to do nothing with nothing. I have always told my kids and my players this and I won't back down from it. You think the decisions you make today only impact you. Let me tell you something. The decisions you make today will not only impact the quality of your life. They will impact those depending on you to give them opportunity. This isn't just about you Buddy. This is about those that will look you in the eye and wonder why? Do you want to be the reason they can't? Or do you want to be the reason they can? Think about it. JMO.

I have spend countless hours and dollars like many others trying to help those that were not as fortunate. But that's not the answer to the problem. That's a band aid. The answer is those that had them actually understanding the awesome responsibility this thing called being a parent is. Baseball is a game that the odds are in the favor of those who can get the opportunities. What is different about life itself? Shouldn't we start with life and then let the games take care of themselves? Just because you can't afford to do all the showcase stuff and events doesn't mean you can't be the best player you can be. It doesn't mean there won't be opportunity. Maybe not as many opportunities. But what do you do with the opportunity you have?

Here's a short version of how I look at opportunity. Some people have doors opened for them. Others have to kick in the door. It's a matter of deciding how badly you want something and pursuing it. In the words of Randy Pausch, "The walls weren't put there to keep you out. They're there to see how badly you want in." How do you handle failure? Do you give up? Or fight back with a vengeance? 

It might be athletic ceiling and number of available roster spots doesn't allow a kid to become a D1 or pro player. But I believe any kid who wants it badly enough can develop into a player who can have a quality college baseball experience if he really wants it,

This isn't a baseball lesson. It's a life lesson. It applies to anything. How badly do you want it? How much effort are you willing to put in. I've heard people say they work hard when in my view they have no bleep'n idea what hard work really is. You make your luck with hard work.

Last edited by RJM

Absolutely agree with Coach May.  

I also continue to believe baseball is loosing out to basketball and football not because of lack of opportunities per se with baseball but I think basketball and/or football both sports have become part of the culture in the inner cities in a way that baseball has not been able to do.   I believe rather than trying to find problems with baseball those promoting the sport should find ways to appeal to inner city youth.  Make the sport cool by for example bring good competitive programs/teams to the inner cities to play in front of these kids in the inner cities.  I'm not convinced although I maybe wrong but the rbi program hasn't done much to make the sport more appealing to African American kids.  For example when I see the rbi program being shown on the news I see both boys and girls on the same team, playing at best rec ball. This does nothing to appeal to boys in the inner cities.

Take above average teams to the inner cities and make sure some of the teams include black kids who are above average players with the intention of  demonstrating how baseball can become very competitive and fun to watch.   

 

Last edited by Florida State Fan
Coach_May posted:

I wish my parents could have afforded to live on a golf course and give me the opportunity to be a golfer. I also hate I missed out on a Hockey career. I wish I could have had a new car in HS like some guys did. Boy there are so many opportunities I missed out on.

 

Good point, my son was on a hockey team and doing well when we had to move due to work and he had no opportunities to continue with that sport.  The numbers for MLB are not great, but not terrible considering the African-American percentage of the population.  Latino's are over-represented in the MLB, possibly partially due to the satellite academies provided, but they still have to take advantage of those opportunities to get there.  It really seems it is a perception problem with baseball not being an exciting sport to pursue.  

Though African-Americans are significantly over-represented in football and basketball in college sports, the college trend in baseball is a bit more disturbing with less than 3%.  I would say has to be due to the poor scholarship support provided,  I would expect this number to be closer to what the MLB numbers are (8%).

I read an article on McCutchen's journey last year and basically a coach saw him play and thought that he needed to play on a higher level to reach his full potential. 

His parents were hardworking folks by all accounts but couldn't afford travel ball. Also, due to their work schedules, they rarely got to see him play. The coach and other basically sponsored (travel, hotels, food, etc.) him throughout the summer. 

In this case, as in many others, it was simply a lack of resources. If others didn't make a decision to help him, he wouldn't be where he is today. 

I know a player in basically the same situation. Extremely talented kid but parents don't have a ton on desposable income. Sometimes folks are willing to step in and help but it doesn't always happen. 

Florida State Fan posted:

Absolutely agree with Coach May.  

I also continue to believe baseball is loosing out to basketball and football not because of lack of opportunities per se with baseball but I think basketball and/or football both sports have become part of the culture in the inner cities in a way that baseball has not been able to do.   I believe rather than trying to find problems with baseball those promoting the sport should find ways to appeal to inner city youth.  Make the sport cool by for example bring good competitive programs/teams to the inner cities to play in front of these kids in the inner cities.  I'm not convinced although I maybe wrong but the rbi program hasn't done much to make the sport more appealing to African American kids.  For example when I see the rbi program being shown on the news I see both boys and girls on the same team, playing at best rec ball. This does nothing to appeal to boys in the inner cities.

Take above average teams to the inner cities and make sure some of the teams include black kids who are above average players with the intention of  demonstrating how baseball can become very competitive and fun to watch.   

 

The RBI program in our area had travel,teams from 13u to an 18u showcase team. The teams were mostly inner city Hispanics and whites. 

Baseball is slow. It takes space to play. Basketball takes a 20x20 space and a ball. There is constant movement in basketball. Basketball is such a part of the inner city culture many of the girls play in pickup games.

There was a well off white kid from our area who played for a USA Today Top 25 high school, In the SEC and then had an NBA shot. As a kid his father would drop him off in black neighborhoods to toughen up his hoop game. My son (14yo at the time) read the story, got on his bike and headed for a court in a nearby predominantly black town. 

My son got knocked off his feet going to the hoop. He called a foul. An older gentleman walked over, leaned over him and said, "You ain't dead is you? You ain't bleed'n is you? Then you ain't fouled!"

OK, let's look at it from a different perspective. If we want baseball to thrive, wouldn't we want all kids to play baseball? 

Baseball has an aging fan base, compared to most other major American sports. Maybe that's fine. Maybe there's nothing that can be done. Maybe the causes -- like the increase in households without a father present -- are so large and varied that there is nothing baseball can do about them.

I guess it's not the end of the world. Hockey -- with a heavily white, well-off fan base -- maybe is the model?! I don't think MLB owners want to end up with that model:

See www.theatlantic.com/business/a...-oldest-fans/283626/

 

2019Dad posted:

OK, let's look at it from a different perspective. If we want baseball to thrive, wouldn't we want all kids to play baseball? 

The problem is that kids now need lessons to look like every other kid.  You pick the top ten hitters from the 1950's and I'd be willing to wager a coach would look at their swings and say "nope, that won't work long term".

Lessons and high cost teams are pretty much required right now so your kid can be cookie cuttered to look like the other kids....he just needs to have the same swing and the ball goes 50 feet farther, or the same style of throw but the ball goes 10mph faster, in order to be considered top level now. Individuality is frowned upon, exact replicas are preferred, and you need lessons to look like that.

The RBI program depends a lot on who's handling it in that particular city.  When my son was 13 we played the Detroit RBI team.   It was ridiculous....team was awful....except for one kid.  Coaches had kids on the team and those kids were pitcher, CF and SS....but wouldn't have seen the field on even mediocre 13U teams.  The coaches were disrespectful to everyone....umpires, opposing team and tourney directors.

At 16U I ran a tourney...had the 16U Cincinnati RBI program in it.  Nicest bunch of kids/coaches we ever ran into....very respectful....played hard and had some real talented kids.  Their players, parents and coaches were a very classy group.  Our tourney had 24 teams and every team that had interaction with them over the weekend commented about how much they enjoyed playing them.  You could tell those kids didn't come from big $$$ households....they were just happy to be playing in a good tourney at some great college fields....and having a good time doing it.

Football has made several major changes. Basketball has made many signifcant changes. Baseball has restructured the divisions and added wild card teams and instant replay. I love the hiatory of the game, but if we dont pay attention to the opther "distractions " kids can have that are more appealing in THIS century and make some changes to make it more attractive to the youth, MLB will become NHL.

No need to tear it down and remake it to appeal to the inner city youths. But it needs to be MORE appealing to the average urban and suburban youths of today. In 10 or 15 short years they will be  young adults. If the game is more attractive to them all , the poor kids who find a way to play on travel AAU teams for basketball and 7 on 7 passing league   tournaments in other states ,will also find a way to play baseball. 

Baseball's attendance has been great these past 2 years.  More adult males are enjoying the game because they can take their whole family there, have kids stay in their seat for 3 hours instead of running around, and have mom watch over all of them.  After an inning's over you can go get in a long line for food and beers, enjoy that alone time, and when you come back they haven't even started the next inning yet.  The food options today at ball parks is just incredible.  All we had were dodger dogs and ice cream 25 years ago.  They didn't even serve cheeseburgers.  It was hot dogs or nothing.  Now they have kobe burgers, garlic fries, even a buffet. 

Last edited by hsbaseball101
2019Dad posted:

OK, let's look at it from a different perspective. If we want baseball to thrive, wouldn't we want all kids to play baseball? 

Baseball has an aging fan base, compared to most other major American sports. Maybe that's fine. Maybe there's nothing that can be done. Maybe the causes -- like the increase in households without a father present -- are so large and varied that there is nothing baseball can do about them.

I guess it's not the end of the world. Hockey -- with a heavily white, well-off fan base -- maybe is the model?! I don't think MLB owners want to end up with that model:

See www.theatlantic.com/business/a...-oldest-fans/283626/

 

Hockey, well off? Hockey is a very blue collar youth sport.  It's expensive, The parents find a way. There's a lot of second hand and hand me done equipment in youth hockey. Kids love hockey and lacrosse because of the action.

Some high school programs in MA charge $700 per season for hockey. I'll bet it's better hockey than the $2000 per season Super Uber Elite Hockey in the south.

i was just looking up summer hockey programs in MA. I came on the best marketing name for a travel/instruction program ... "Pro Ambitions." It's for ages 6-15. Notice Pro Ambitions isn't for sixteen and seventeen year olds when "pro ambitions" become more realistic.

Last edited by RJM

My nephew has played hockey for years.  Yes, it's very expensive.  In addition to equipment, the team fees are very high.  Ice time is not cheap.  Imagine having to pay to use a baseball field every time the team needed to practice.   In our county, there's no charge for using county owned fields except the HS whose use is controlled by the AD (non HS teams are charged $100/hour for use of the baseball/softball fields).

RJM posted:

Here's a short version of how I look at opportunity. Some people have doors opened for them. Others have to kick in the door. It's a matter of deciding how badly you want something and pursuing it. In the words of Randy Pausch, "The walls weren't put there to keep you out. They're there to see how badly you want in." How do you handle failure? Do you give up? Or fight back with a vengeance? 

It might be athletic ceiling and number of available roster spots doesn't allow a kid to become a D1 or pro player. But I believe any kid who wants it badly enough can develop into a player who can have a quality college baseball experience if he really wants it,

This isn't a baseball lesson. It's a life lesson. It applies to anything. How badly do you want it? How much effort are you willing to put in. I've heard people say they work hard when in my view they have no bleep'n idea what hard work really is. You make your luck with hard work.

But what happens in reality is that the most talented athletes from less wealthy families choose other sports. 

sure there are people who are push through but in reality of football offers a better package top athletes will prefer it. 

We are so politically correct that it makes me want to puke at times.  Listen, opportunities are available through various programs.  You can't force any group to take part in those programs.  Many of the TB Programs offer scholarships to those in need.  I know my daughter played in one that sponsored a couple of young ladies that could not afford to participate.  We were asked if we, my wife and I, would contribute some extra money to pay for them.  You bet!  The problems with baseball need to be addressed but mostly that means the speed of the game.  I am a Cardinal fan.  Take a look at a home game at Busch Stadium.  It is at capacity almost every game. 

FoxDad posted:

My nephew has played hockey for years.  Yes, it's very expensive.  In addition to equipment, the team fees are very high.  Ice time is not cheap.  Imagine having to pay to use a baseball field every time the team needed to practice.   In our county, there's no charge for using county owned fields except the HS whose use is controlled by the AD (non HS teams are charged $100/hour for use of the baseball/softball fields).

Correct. And the article I posted notes: "The NHL audience is the richest of all professional sports. One-third of its viewers make more than $100k, compared to about 19 percent of the general population."

I personally don't think that is the right direction for baseball to head.

Correct. And the article I posted notes: "The NHL audience is the richest of all professional sports. One-third of its viewers make more than $100k, compared to about 19 percent of the general population."

I personally don't think that is the right direction for baseball to head.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

The article is..... skewed a bit. The costs are relative to geographic location. The more rinks, the more hockey, the more reasonable the cost. To play hockey in California, Arizona, Texas, Tennessee, Atlanta and Florida will cost an enormous amount of money, thus the wealthy families are involved.  I will say, there's nothing like the sight of lil junior dragging his equipment bag over the side of the new S550 after "Dallas hockey mom" pops the trunk, while sitting comfortably in the drivers seat doing her nails!

They are the minority in overall numbers. A majority of USAH players are in the northeast, Michigan, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Illinois (Chicago and surrounding suburbs). The northern most players seldom travel over 30-40 minutes to play, even at the high school level. At the tier 1 level, everyone travels to play the top programs, which happen to be in the north.

Move a little further north, where those teams formed in unconventional markets must travel to play good competition! Hockey is not cheap in most places but it certainly does not leave players behind in the northern most states due to cost. Hockey in Minnesota and Wisconsin is typically between $400-$1,000 per season, depending on number of participants in the area. In many places ice is free or subsidized by the municipality.

The families I know from hockey come from humble backgrounds, they're linemen, pipefitters, carpenters, window washers, electricians and entrepreneurs of all kinds.

This is no different than a kid from Kansas attempting to gain exposure to a PG event. The closest event is Cedar Rapids but the big events are at Lakepoint. PG isn't in Kansas, so the kid has to go to where they are, and there are costs involved.

CoachB25 posted:

We are so politically correct that it makes me want to puke at times.  Listen, opportunities are available through various programs.  You can't force any group to take part in those programs.  Many of the TB Programs offer scholarships to those in need.  I know my daughter played in one that sponsored a couple of young ladies that could not afford to participate.  We were asked if we, my wife and I, would contribute some extra money to pay for them.  You bet!  The problems with baseball need to be addressed but mostly that means the speed of the game.  I am a Cardinal fan.  Take a look at a home game at Busch Stadium.  It is at capacity almost every game. 

I don't think politically correct has anything to do with it. 60 years ago baseball was the most popular sport in the country. 30 years ago it was the second most popular sport, after football. Now it's arguably the third most popular sport, after football and basketball. The trend is not in the right direction.

Dominik85 posted:
RJM posted:

Here's a short version of how I look at opportunity. Some people have doors opened for them. Others have to kick in the door. It's a matter of deciding how badly you want something and pursuing it. In the words of Randy Pausch, "The walls weren't put there to keep you out. They're there to see how badly you want in." How do you handle failure? Do you give up? Or fight back with a vengeance? 

It might be athletic ceiling and number of available roster spots doesn't allow a kid to become a D1 or pro player. But I believe any kid who wants it badly enough can develop into a player who can have a quality college baseball experience if he really wants it,

This isn't a baseball lesson. It's a life lesson. It applies to anything. How badly do you want it? How much effort are you willing to put in. I've heard people say they work hard when in my view they have no bleep'n idea what hard work really is. You make your luck with hard work.

But what happens in reality is that the most talented athletes from less wealthy families choose other sports. 

sure there are people who are push through but in reality of football offers a better package top athletes will prefer it. 

Kids typically select sports based on the sports culture they're exposed to, popularity of specific sports in their region and influence by a parent having played that sport or its dad's favorite sport. 

There was a point when my son was a better soccer player than baseball player. He was equally as good at basketball as baseball. From a favorite sport perspective I've never been convinced he likes baseball more than basketball. But dad played college baseball. Sister verballed for softball when he was ten. He was determined to play college baseball. From 7th grade on baseball was the summer focus. By high school he practiced or trained year round despite playing other sports.

 

Last edited by RJM

PG, I enjoyed the article. I've been across the street from your place many times watching the talent  the 'Riders display every season.

Honestly, participation is lower in sports due to more sports to participate in and trending lower birth rates.

50 years ago it was football, baseball, basketball and track and field with an upward trending birth rate.

Today, add in soccer, hockey (thank you, '80 Olympic Team), gymnastics, rugby, lacrosse, softball, wrestling ( I'm sure I'm leaving some regional sports out) fishing for some areas, then have any one or two of those seasons/sports overlap or cross each other and you lose participation to specialization.

Heck, right down the road from you, Dan Gable made wrestling cool for a few generations of kids and wrestling's crown jewel is in Fargo in the middle of summer!

Backpick25 posted:

PG, I enjoyed the article. I've been across the street from your place many times watching the talent  the 'Riders display every season.

Honestly, participation is lower in sports due to more sports to participate in and trending lower birth rates.

50 years ago it was football, baseball, basketball and track and field with an upward trending birth rate.

Today, add in soccer, hockey (thank you, '80 Olympic Team), gymnastics, rugby, lacrosse, softball, wrestling ( I'm sure I'm leaving some regional sports out) fishing for some areas, then have any one or two of those seasons/sports overlap or cross each other and you lose participation to specialization.

Heck, right down the road from you, Dan Gable made wrestling cool for a few generations of kids and wrestling's crown jewel is in Fargo in the middle of summer!

You left out video games.  I am a bit surprised that the soccer numbers are not on the rise though.

In my simple little opinion it's not the can't miss studs that's left out. It's the just good ball players. My son is a good ball player. He's good enough to make the team. Good enough to be at the top of the rotation. Good enough to start but not great enough to get a free ride. My daughter who's only 9 has dozens of invites to play for free. She can still play at the top level of travel when older without me paying. My son as of now won't. This is where the problem of kids being left out for money reasons is the problem. 

I coached for many years at the HS level and I had 1 kid get offered a full ride. I had guys that were studs who were drafted high and most got 50% or less. The kid that got the full ride was offered that full ride to a HBC and was offered 30% 40% by several top 25 programs. He took the full ride to the HBC and played for a team that couldn't beat good HS teams.

There is a JC 20 miles from out HS that has two prospect camps each year for 25 bucks. There are coaches there from several colleges. If your a good player you won't get left out if you take advantage of the opportunities that are out there. There are many college prospect camps each year that are very inexpensive. And  college coaches still scout HS games. I know for a fact they do in NC and SC.

Playing showcase teams and at the right venues will get you exposure. It won't get you opportunities. What you can actually do with that exposure will or won't get you opportunities. If your a really good player all you have to do is get in front of the right people and do the right things. That does not mean you have to go broke to do it. It does not mean you are losing the opportunity to play in college because you can't afford to spend thousands of dollars to be on a travel team.

Now your kid might lose the opportunity to do a bunch of traveling. He might not get to play at some great venues while in HS. But there are multiple opportunities to be seen by the right people if you know who the right people are. If your son is not a "stud" you can eliminate some people off of that. You can focus on the schools that he fits with both academically and as a player. They have camps. There are multiple ways to get this thing done. That's not being left out. That's taking advantage of what you can take advantage of.

I just wanted to say it's not just black kids that are struggling . I'm from an areas where my son is always the only black on the team and believe me there are just as many whites that just don't have the money to pay for baseball . We didn't even think about putting our son in showcase / travel ball that you have to pay 1000's of dollars to participate until he was older . We did rec baseball and usssa baseball. I'm so glad we took that route we saved money and it made my son a better baseball player. He respect the game and knows how to play the game the right way. Stress education so you can get free money for going to school .

This has always been a subject that has bothered me.  I am glad to see there are opportunities out there that are not expensive.  Having just gone through the process, spending a ton of money, my thoughts are if a player is that good the college coaches in the area where he lives will find him and hopefully the high school coach can be of some assistance in getting the player recruited.  I understand at some Texas high schools that is exactly what the high school coaches do.  From what I can see, this does not happen often on other places. 

RKBH posted:

This has always been a subject that has bothered me.  I am glad to see there are opportunities out there that are not expensive.  Having just gone through the process, spending a ton of money, my thoughts are if a player is that good the college coaches in the area where he lives will find him and hopefully the high school coach can be of some assistance in getting the player recruited.  I understand at some Texas high schools that is exactly what the high school coaches do.  From what I can see, this does not happen often on other places. 

I can tell you it does not happen at my son's high school.  My son was able to get references from his hs coach and another father who did play professionally.  The coaches from my son's hs do value my son's talent but sending out feeders to college coaches is not usually done at his hs.  If the kid is an absolute stud I'm sure colleges and or pro scouts will find him. But what if he's no stud, and I'm guessing that's probably most kids. Say he's only very good and good enough to play college ball will college coaches find him? Maybe not. It's up to the kid and us parents to find the opportunities.

On average a high participation/equipment cost would be $500 a season.  Some parents would rather use that money for one sport than multiple ones, and baseball might not be highest on the list.  Growing up I thought my family was poor (they put everything into the business), so I never asked to play baseball and instead, hung out with friends who did.  I got a couple opportunities every season to play a LL/pony/colt scrimmage game.  In HS the cost to play was $300 and since I was used to funding my own way, I didn't have that kind of cash, so I only played  intramural sports.  Freshman (jr high) football had a small fee of under $100 so that was doable.  Finally at Juco everything was free.  Uniforms, bus fare and cortisone shots were on them.  All you had to do was buy your own gloves, cleats, bats, hats and socks.  

I strongly believe when your player is older you can judge how well they will play baseball and if they possess the ability to play on the college level which is another beast in itself. You should start getting him exposed. Everyone not D1 and that okay but get someone to evaluate your player honestly. When you have your evaluation start finding college camp that your player is interested , invest in getting him hitting, pitching and get in a weight training program at school   .You will save a lot of money and you will see where your money is benefiting you. 

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