Lufkin LL-Congrats

Shout out to my home town on their win last night. We affiliated with LL 5 years ago or so. This is our first trip to Williamsport since then. It is fun seeing boys you know and their parents being able to enjoy this experience. 

Original Post
RedFishFool posted:

Shout out to my home town on their win last night. We affiliated with LL 5 years ago or so. This is our first trip to Williamsport since then. It is fun seeing boys you know and their parents being able to enjoy this experience. 

Way to go!

RedFishFool posted:

Congrats to NC. Well played game and great pitching.

ps: Heard on ESPN last night that both Lufkin and NC were undefeated, all summer, prior to this game.

Most LL all star teams are undefeated heading into whatever level they make. 

Congratulations to both very fine teams!

However, frankly, it's a pretty silly tournament format that creates winners' and losers'  brackets and rewards the winner of the last game; despite the fact that the two teams tied in head-to-head competition.

These teams played two very good games, but you're right, Prepster, that has always been a weakness of this event, especially since all of the tournaments leading up to it have "if necessary" games in the tournament format.

I guess it comes down to not wanting to stretch the tournament into another week for a number of reasons.

Prepster posted:

Congratulations to both very fine teams!

However, frankly, it's a pretty silly tournament format that creates winners' and losers'  brackets and rewards the winner of the last game; despite the fact that the two teams tied in head-to-head competition.

It's because these games have to be played Saturday and Sunday on ABC. Pushing the championship out to Monday is worthless to ABC. The format was also the same in regions for tv reasons. The games had to be on ESPN on Saturday.

Ted22 posted:

Its a poor format that rewards the losers bracket. I enjoy watching but it is silly to have kids 6' 2' 150+ lbs playing on that size field.

The losers bracket team still goes through a lot more pitching playing more games. It's a tv broadcasting schedule issue. 

You "enter" the tourney knowing how it's going to be played - it you don't like it, then don't attempt to enter . I'm not disagreeing that I think it's unfair to the upper bracket winner, but more times that not I think it works out that the loser's bracket team doesn't move on as you run out of arms.  Those two teams could play 10 times with a 5-5 record. I doubt either would have defeated Japan this year though. Mexico was pretty tough too especially considering their trip through the loser's bracket and all the pitchers they used.

People complained that pool play was unfair - especially a tie breaking system between three 2-1 or 1-2 teams and some gamesmanship that could be employed by a later game to ensure a team loses out on the tiebreaker which IIRC was some sort of runs against that perhaps included averaging innings played. So a modified double elimination is employed and that doesn't work either. I don't recall reading anyone complaining that the Legion WS played 7 inning single elimination in their semis/finals after playing 9 inning pool play games beforehand (admittedly I didn't read those posts as closely though ).

If it weren't for TV one wonders how popular LL would be. Doubt you'd see any 13's still playing.  It is what it is - entertainment.... Thankfully they don't employ the electronic eye strike zone!

I have heard a ton of crying from local folks about the format. Especially my friends from Eastern NC. Look if you were Lufkin and you had advanced would you be yelling no fair? No you would be saying the rules are the rules. Your up 5-0 and lose? You have no one to blame but yourself for not getting it done. The rules are the rules and you knew that coming in.

Kudos to Lufkin, TX! One of the coaches of one of my son's former travel teams was born and raised in Lufkin and played AS baseball with them in the 70s. The 3B and pitcher for Lufikin was his second cousin and he went to 3 of their games in person. So, I was rooting for them all the way.

Although the infamous All-Stars strike zone did not seem as egregiously bad as it has been in the past, I still cringed at strikes called 6" off the plate and 8" off the ground. Yet belt-high, center-cut pitches were balls most of the time. Japan's catcher was setting up behind the empty batter's box! To their credit, their pitcher brought those pitches in when, thankfully, they were not getting strikes 9" off the plate as in past years. Japan was excellent, their pitcher kept the TX hitters off-balance, and they could HIT.

The format is most disadvantaged for the international teams...  Wonder what it would look like if the US champion had to now play through the international bracket to get to the final.  US is guaranteed a Team in the final every year!  Talk about rigged!  

All in all it's a great event.  We truly enjoy the games and coverage.  

real green posted:

The format is most disadvantaged for the international teams...  Wonder what it would look like if the US champion had to now play through the international bracket to get to the final.  US is guaranteed a Team in the final every year!  Talk about rigged!  

All in all it's a great event.  We truly enjoy the games and coverage.  

Lol......Japan is basically guaranteed a spot in the championship game every year also....seems fair

When I played (Fred Flinstone and Barney Rubble were on the team) one loss anywhere and it was over. My team made it through districts and states before losing in divisions. 

Before LL was reformatted into eight American regions there were four. The New England teams had to play divisions for a slot in the Eastern Region. 

Almost fifty years later I can still visualize popping out to short to make the last out in the game we were eliminated.

Ted22 posted:

I have no problem with Lufkin advancing. They won the games required to advance. I have no connection to any NC team. I understand the format was known before entering. The format is defective by any reasonable measure.

Ted previously said ...  "Its a poor format that rewards the losers bracket. I enjoy watching but it is silly to have kids 6' 2' 150+ lbs playing on that size field."

 Makes for good debate... I respectfully disagree about "defective format" and "rewards the losers bracket".  It doesn't reward the losers bracket, it just doesn't punish to the extent that other formats do.  You still have to win more games and use more pitchers to come out of the losers bracket.  That is no reward, as became evident in the game against Japan.  Not saying they would have won, but it would likely have been far more competitive if they were able to throw their better pitching at them.  As with all formats, there are pro's and con's.  The single elimination once reaching the US/Int. finals and the Champ game are certainly more dramatic than if there were an "if" game.  Knowing everything is on the line with one game is just more exciting than the thought of, "oh, well if this team wins, they play again".  And, one could certainly argue that the format where the "if" game exists makes it far more impossible to come back through the losers bracket to actually win the event.  That said, not matter the format, to win, you have to win the key games on the field.  Period.  

As far as the 6'2" 150+ kids playing on the little field, that issue is being addressed going forward with the reverting of the age cut off.  I agree many of those players were too big and mature looking for what we traditionally think of as LL.  But, again, with any youth event at any age, you will always have those early bloomers who appear to be man vs boys.   

I also agree that the called strike zone was noticeably better this year.  It didn't feel like any teams were taken out of the competition by ridiculous zones.  

I still love the event.  The concept of kids playing baseball for their communities and trying to advance to further reaches and bigger stages is just special.  Not perfect, but very special.  In fact, the "not perfect" is part of the "very special".

Cabbage,

Nice post. I appreciate your demeanor.

Two teams have the same head to head record. The losers bracket advances. That is the reward. It favors the losers bracket.

I agree the format is known and equally applied. That is why I avoid unfair and use the term "defective".

I feel kids eleven and over belong on at least a 50/75 field. The current setup is riskier than I like. When the LLWS was first setup the kids were not as big as they are now. The bats were also not as hot. That should also improve some next year.

None of this really is that big of a deal to me. My focus is mostly on the development of kids as players and as people.

Add Reply

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×