Marking Launch angles in batting cages?

thanks to statcast we now know that Launch angles between +10 and +30 degrees are most productive. On twitter I have seen some guys marking those angles with lines to Train hitting at those angles.

basically like this

 

of course you can only do that at your own Cage but I think it would be a good idea. what do you think about that? couldn't that help hitters to become more productive? of course a hit Trax is nicer but also much more expensive than those ropes who will only cost like 15 bucks.

Original Post
nxt lvl posted:

Abunch of different ways to notate 10 Degrees. We dont have our own cage so the ropes are out of the question. 

maybe you could create removable ones with carbines. you could also mark only the back/top of the cage and not the whole sides. 

Generally, any such visuals are good.  As with most things, there are pros and cons.  For our HS players, we narrow the scope by lowering the higher end of that launch angle range.  We instruct straight line drives to slightly higher.  With a narrowed scope, when a hitter adjusts to pitches a bit up or down, they are more likely to stay within the desired optimal range.

We use, on occasion, makeshift target lines but I do like the rope in the net.  We have used sections of colored ribbon across the back net only.

One of the "cons" to using the range as you defined - when most young players have a visual that is more "upward" than "level" their mindset usually gravitates toward the most upward angle.  They think "hit it up" instead of "hit a level to slightly elevated line drive".  It can affect set-up and swing plane - they tend to exaggerate with a tilted set up and swing plane that is higher and not ideal for consistent barrel contact.  This can become counter-productive for many young players.  

Of course, player type should also be taken into consideration.   Optimal angle for a small speedster is different than that of a masher with a natural "lift" swing.

A question, Dominik - in the image, are all three rope lines supposed to be part of the launch angle visual?  

 

cabbagedad posted:

Generally, any such visuals are good.  As with most things, there are pros and cons.  For our HS players, we narrow the scope by lowering the higher end of that launch angle range.  We instruct straight line drives to slightly higher.  With a narrowed scope, when a hitter adjusts to pitches a bit up or down, they are more likely to stay within the desired optimal range.

We use, on occasion, makeshift target lines but I do like the rope in the net.  We have used sections of colored ribbon across the back net only.

One of the "cons" to using the range as you defined - when most young players have a visual that is more "upward" than "level" their mindset usually gravitates toward the most upward angle.  They think "hit it up" instead of "hit a level to slightly elevated line drive".  It can affect set-up and swing plane - they tend to exaggerate with a tilted set up and swing plane that is higher and not ideal for consistent barrel contact.  This can become counter-productive for many young players.  

Of course, player type should also be taken into consideration.   Optimal angle for a small speedster is different than that of a masher with a natural "lift" swing.

A question, Dominik - in the image, are all three rope lines supposed to be part of the launch angle visual?  

 

I think the very lowest line has no function. however I think that lower of the other lines is about 20 degrees, I would make it a little lower. 

Although I believe in Launch Angles and I have even seen Iowa block off their entire infield with box nets here is my one worry.  The launch angles that are discussed are, as far as I know, based off a pitcher throwing a pitch off an elevated mound.  If you mark these in a cage in which you are throwing off the flat ground my assumption is that this would change angles.  This is the problem I have with doing something like this.

The visual reference of the cage 2 posts above tells me that the old phrase "back of the cage son" pretty much takes care of the need to mark launch angles on sides of cages. A ball that makes its way to the back of the cage or at least beyond the L screen before contacting the top of cage has always been what I've asked my son for in the cage!....this thread kinda reinforces what I've told him since little league!lol....edit: before you take me to task for the exactness of the location described above vs the lines in blue, lighten up....just comparing old school "success" for me with my son  to new school lines on the cage!

2019Lefty21 posted:

The visual reference of the cage 2 posts above tells me that the old phrase "back of the cage son" pretty much takes care of the need to mark launch angles on sides of cages. A ball that makes its way to the back of the cage or at least beyond the L screen before contacting the top of cage has always been what I've asked my son for in the cage!....this thread kinda reinforces what I've told him since little league!lol....edit: before you take me to task for the exactness of the location described above vs the lines in blue, lighten up....just comparing old school "success" for me with my son  to new school lines on the cage!

yes but back of the Cage is just the BOTTOM of the desired Launch angle range (and only if you hit over the Screen, if you hit through the "L" hole it is lower).

don't Forget that a Level line drive (aimed against the Screen ) on the field will bounce roughly around the pitchers Mound due to gravity. even a plus 5 degree hit at 90 MPH will only travel like 130 feet, so it is essentially a hard one hopper to short or a shoelace line drive.

MLB statcast thus has liners from 10-25 degrees.

you don't want to hit the top of the Cage 10 feet in front of home plate obviously, but a batted ball that hits the top of the Cage about 20 feet away from home plate is pretty much an ideal Launch angle.

Actually a ball hit at a 30 degree angle at a height of 3 feet above the ground will hit the top of a 12 feet high batting Cage about 16 feet behind home plate although most coaches would discourage that Kind of result.

And if you don't want 30 degree balls: because you have a small guy:

if we assume the ideal line drive to be at 17.5 degrees (10+25/2), that ball would hit the top of the Cage 30 feet away from home plate which is still a couple feet before the L Screen (assuming the L Screen is about 45 feet from home plate).

That means only a small part of the ideal LA range will actually hit the (top part) of the back of the Cage, while the majority will hit the top of the Cage.

I don't even think you Need to mark the sides of the Screen all that much, just mark the part of the top of the Cage (about 15-20 feet from home) where the ideal lauch angle ends and use the top of the Screen as the bottom range.

if you hit the top before that it is too steep and behind that you are fine.

ideally of course you mark the sides and the back/top.

If you don't want to mark it you could maybe say hit the back half  of the top of the Cage (backstop to about middle of the Cage is front half and middle of the Cage to the back end behind the Screen is the back half)instead of hit the back of the Cage.

I made this Picture: the Cage is a Little shorter and higher than normal, so the Launch angle of the front part of the line is more like 40 degrees but you get the Picture.

cage

 

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I personally have been really focusing on hitting up on the ball.  I have naturally had a flat swing or slight up swing and this goes back to the days where I was told to HIT DOWN on the ball, even as a power hitter.  Never made sense and I struggled.  I fight with the zepp attack angle numbers because when my swing clearly shows up on video and zepp is telling me its -25' and the ball is going up I get frustrated.  So I try and change mechanics and swing plane and hands and shoulders and swing up.  I used to be a home run and power hitter but I dont have video of that far back so I have to assume my swing has changed over time.  

Here is why Im posting...  IEBSBL posted something interesting about pitches coming off a mound and launch angles.  This got quickly dismissed because launch angles dont really have to do with pitch angle in theory because the angle is off the bat compared to the ground.  BUT, when I hit in a 70-80mph cage off a machine or a live pitcher not on a mound, the ball is coming in at a much less angle vs off a mound.  That in return changes what we do with the bat and swing plane which in return changes the launch angle.  I never considered this but it makes sense.  Maybe I do swing on the proper angle but I dont realize it because in training the ball is coming in flat or very slightly downward bc of gravity.  So I swing flatter to match that path.  

If I look at the zepp app and look at mike trouts swing from the side, his launch angle is matching the pitch angle.  The pitcher is sitting a bit in front of the mound, behind a screen, tossing at a slow speed.  This is creating a very dramatic pitch angle so Mike has to swing up to match it.  Im sure his subconscious tells him to match the pitch angle.  But in my videos from cage work the ball is coming in basically flat and my swing gets on plane and matches that angle.  

Make sense?  It makes it VERY hard to swing up on a ball that is coming in flat.  You are cutting the impact area by a large percentage because now you have only a small spot on the ball and a perfect timing to hit that ball up.  Unless you get on plane of a flat pitch with a flat swing and catch if just under the equator.  But at that swing you arent hitting home runs but fly outs without any real force.  

This must all have a huge impact on hitting and training without knowing it.  

Well a Cage pitch is not coming in flat.

most of the downward angle of a pitch is not due to the Mound but due to gravity and the ball being released over shoulder height and arriving usually below waist height. the Mound might add some more angle but not much (maybe adding one more degree of downward angle or so).

if the BP in the Cage is thrown it probably is actually steeper than game pitching because it is slower and usually thrown from a shorter distance.

maybe if it is a machine that is firing balls from rather low at a high Velo the pitch will be flatter but I doubt that makes a big difference.

Dominik85 posted:

Well a Cage pitch is not coming in flat.

most of the downward angle of a pitch is not due to the Mound but due to gravity and the ball being released over shoulder height and arriving usually below waist height. the Mound might add some more angle but not much (maybe adding one more degree of downward angle or so).

if the BP in the Cage is thrown it probably is actually steeper than game pitching because it is slower and usually thrown from a shorter distance.

maybe if it is a machine that is firing balls from rather low at a high Velo the pitch will be flatter but I doubt that makes a big difference.

 

I moved this to another thread.  I dont want to hijack this one.  Sorry and thanks. 

 

http://community.hsbaseballweb...d-vs-flat-vs-machine

Dominik85 posted:

maybe it is not completely the same. but I'm pretty sure we are talking something like 6 degrees vs 8 degrees here. 

 

certainly nothing that would justify a launch angle that is 20 degrees  lower than in games. 

I started another thread:

http://community.hsbaseballweb...d-vs-flat-vs-machine

 

Lets work there.  But Im not saying launch angle differences, I am saying attack angle differences.  Remember we can still launch a ball at 30' with an uppercut, level, or down swing depending on where we make contact. 

I agree but don't forget that players are not really matching the plane anyway but swing up more (I think the average is around 15 degrees or so among elite sluggers). 

it is true that swinging up more makes squaring up harder and of course you can hit up while swinging level but a higher attack angle transfers more energy into higher launch angles. 

there is a tradeoff between consistency and optimal power output. 

 

I think regardless of whether a pitch Comes in at 5 or 9 degrees I think it does make sense to prime Players for hitting a lot of balls between 10 and 30 degrees. that way a Player just maximizes whatever batspeed he has.

maybe you can lower that range to 10-20 degrees for smaller hitters if you want because that is were the highest batting averages are.

I was in the cage today for the first time in two weeks and concentrated on the cue hit the back half of the top of the cage. I marked the top of the cage about 25 feet from home plate with a towel I put on top of it there and tried to hit the top of the cage behind it.

first it feels weird and you think you hit pop ups but then it feels really good. told another guy to hit it over the screen and he liked it after a while too. it just goes against the usual teaching so it first feels a little weird.

Dom you are young if I recall?  Please do the baseball community a huge favor and become a coach. We need more like you. You are beating your head against a brick wall a bit here but I admire your tenacity. Folks can we clear this up for the last time...  physics are physics and old school mentality doesn't change that. If you hit the back of the cage first off it might just be caught by the pitcher second it better be absolutely smoked or it may not even make it out of the infield. Second base is 127' 3 3/8" from home plate as we know. A good shortstop who can range behind the bag may be 150'? From the plate. Unless you hit the very top of the back of the cage that's a ground ball. Could it be a ground ball up the middle base hit?  Sure. But better have a pretty good exit velocity. And even so if a guy hits .300 with all singles up the middle...  that's called a useless hitter. Same BA as slugging pct.  not good.  We have to fight this mentality that home runs are 'mistakes'. Home runs and extra base hits are the goal. Pop ups and ground balls are the mistakes. Oh and by the way Dom I know you are meticulous in your research so you may be interested to know that a ball hit at the optimum launch angle if 25 degrees strikes the top of the cage - ready - 12 to 15 feet from the plate depending on how high your cage is and if pitch was high or low. Guarantee kid rips one and it hits top 15 feet down the tobacco spitters are all over him. Dom keep up the good work. Our organization just got hit trax for our brand new facility. Should be operational within the month. Can't wait. Little Johnny with the 65mph exit velocity hitting the back of the cage is officially out of business. Til you can get hit trax or similar the rope idea is great - combined with a gun of course, launch angle without exit velocity is an incomplete picture. Good luck!

P.S. Did some calculations...   assuming 50 feet from plate to back of cage (pretty common, most don't have 70 foot cages) if you have a 12ft high cage (giving my opponents every benefit of the doubt - that is a pretty high cage) the very top of the back of the cage, and I mean the very top it is 10.2 degrees of launch angle assuming a thigh high contact point about three feet off the ground.  So really it's pushing it to say the back of the cage is a goal. Again that back of cage represents only one third the distance you need for a hit. And again you will need an awful lot of exit velocity and a lot to go right to earn your single up the middle. No thanks. Chicks dig the long ball!  And so does every scout. And gappers can count in the long ball category for me. 

Before this was posted I was thinking about posting it. Now that I think about it , who can see the angle the ball comes off the bat in a cage  ?  In my opinion you might as well  figure out where on the back of the cage is a HR if it's even at the back of the cage. If you can't hit the ball  350' with some frequency you might as well  just try to hit line drives. Which isn't a bad thing . If you're 5'8" 150 pounds or an eleven year old should you be swinging for the fences ? Just make hard contact and go from there. 

2020dad posted:

... Folks can we clear this up for the last time...  physics are physics and old school mentality doesn't change that. If you hit the back of the cage first off it might just be caught by the pitcher second it better be absolutely smoked or it may not even make it out of the infield. Second base is 127' 3 3/8" from home plate as we know. A good shortstop who can range behind the bag may be 150'? From the plate. Unless you hit the very top of the back of the cage that's a ground ball. Could it be a ground ball up the middle base hit?  Sure. But better have a pretty good exit velocity. And even so if a guy hits .300 with all singles up the middle...  that's called a useless hitter. Same BA as slugging pct.  not good.  We have to fight this mentality that home runs are 'mistakes'. Home runs and extra base hits are the goal. Pop ups and ground balls are the mistakes. Oh and by the way Dom I know you are meticulous in your research so you may be interested to know that a ball hit at the optimum launch angle if 25 degrees strikes the top of the cage - ready - 12 to 15 feet from the plate depending on how high your cage is and if pitch was high or low. Guarantee kid rips one and it hits top 15 feet down the tobacco spitters are all over him. Dom keep up the good work. Our organization just got hit trax for our brand new facility. Should be operational within the month. Can't wait. Little Johnny with the 65mph exit velocity hitting the back of the cage is officially out of business. Til you can get hit trax or similar the rope idea is great - combined with a gun of course, launch angle without exit velocity is an incomplete picture. Good luck!

2020, so you are a proponent of teaching little Johnny  with 65mph exit velo to try to hit the ball at a launch angle of 25 degrees, correct?   And it sounds like you include the average HS player in the group that is little Johnny, correct?

Approximately what swing plane are you proposing to be taught to achieve that angle?  What level/s of play is the data from that tells us that this is the optimal angle?

cabbagedad posted:
2020dad posted:

... Folks can we clear this up for the last time...  physics are physics and old school mentality doesn't change that. If you hit the back of the cage first off it might just be caught by the pitcher second it better be absolutely smoked or it may not even make it out of the infield. Second base is 127' 3 3/8" from home plate as we know. A good shortstop who can range behind the bag may be 150'? From the plate. Unless you hit the very top of the back of the cage that's a ground ball. Could it be a ground ball up the middle base hit?  Sure. But better have a pretty good exit velocity. And even so if a guy hits .300 with all singles up the middle...  that's called a useless hitter. Same BA as slugging pct.  not good.  We have to fight this mentality that home runs are 'mistakes'. Home runs and extra base hits are the goal. Pop ups and ground balls are the mistakes. Oh and by the way Dom I know you are meticulous in your research so you may be interested to know that a ball hit at the optimum launch angle if 25 degrees strikes the top of the cage - ready - 12 to 15 feet from the plate depending on how high your cage is and if pitch was high or low. Guarantee kid rips one and it hits top 15 feet down the tobacco spitters are all over him. Dom keep up the good work. Our organization just got hit trax for our brand new facility. Should be operational within the month. Can't wait. Little Johnny with the 65mph exit velocity hitting the back of the cage is officially out of business. Til you can get hit trax or similar the rope idea is great - combined with a gun of course, launch angle without exit velocity is an incomplete picture. Good luck!

2020, so you are a proponent of teaching little Johnny  with 65mph exit velo to try to hit the ball at a launch angle of 25 degrees, correct?   And it sounds like you include the average HS player in the group that is little Johnny, correct?

Approximately what swing plane are you proposing to be taught to achieve that angle?  What level/s of play is the data from that tells us that this is the optimal angle?

25 degrees is not really that steep, it is listed as a high line drive by statcast. 

I would guess a ball hit at 65 degrees at 25 degrees lands behind the infield and in front of the of most of the time at least on the small field (most hs players will probably hit 70+ anyway). 

2020dad posted:

Dom you are young if I recall?  Please do the baseball community a huge favor and become a coach. We need more like you. You are beating your head against a brick wall a bit here but I admire your tenacity. Folks can we clear this up for the last time...  physics are physics and old school mentality doesn't change that. If you hit the back of the cage first off it might just be caught by the pitcher second it better be absolutely smoked or it may not even make it out of the infield. Second base is 127' 3 3/8" from home plate as we know. A good shortstop who can range behind the bag may be 150'? From the plate. Unless you hit the very top of the back of the cage that's a ground ball. Could it be a ground ball up the middle base hit?  Sure. But better have a pretty good exit velocity. And even so if a guy hits .300 with all singles up the middle...  that's called a useless hitter. Same BA as slugging pct.  not good.  We have to fight this mentality that home runs are 'mistakes'. Home runs and extra base hits are the goal. Pop ups and ground balls are the mistakes. Oh and by the way Dom I know you are meticulous in your research so you may be interested to know that a ball hit at the optimum launch angle if 25 degrees strikes the top of the cage - ready - 12 to 15 feet from the plate depending on how high your cage is and if pitch was high or low. Guarantee kid rips one and it hits top 15 feet down the tobacco spitters are all over him. Dom keep up the good work. Our organization just got hit trax for our brand new facility. Should be operational within the month. Can't wait. Little Johnny with the 65mph exit velocity hitting the back of the cage is officially out of business. Til you can get hit trax or similar the rope idea is great - combined with a gun of course, launch angle without exit velocity is an incomplete picture. Good luck!

thanks for the kind words. I will definitely consider coaching I already assist some hitting coaching. I'm definitely a student of the game but of course coaching is much more than just knowledge, it is also organization, didactics, motivation and much more. 

a good coach with dated knowledge who can teach that well is often better than a bad coach with state of the art knowledge. better a non perfect movement that you can really execute than a shaky movement, skill is more than correct knowledge. 

best is of course both, great teaching skills and state of the art knowledge. 

Dominik85 posted:
cabbagedad posted:
2020dad posted:

... Folks can we clear this up for the last time...  physics are physics and old school mentality doesn't change that. If you hit the back of the cage first off it might just be caught by the pitcher second it better be absolutely smoked or it may not even make it out of the infield. Second base is 127' 3 3/8" from home plate as we know. A good shortstop who can range behind the bag may be 150'? From the plate. Unless you hit the very top of the back of the cage that's a ground ball. Could it be a ground ball up the middle base hit?  Sure. But better have a pretty good exit velocity. And even so if a guy hits .300 with all singles up the middle...  that's called a useless hitter. Same BA as slugging pct.  not good.  We have to fight this mentality that home runs are 'mistakes'. Home runs and extra base hits are the goal. Pop ups and ground balls are the mistakes. Oh and by the way Dom I know you are meticulous in your research so you may be interested to know that a ball hit at the optimum launch angle if 25 degrees strikes the top of the cage - ready - 12 to 15 feet from the plate depending on how high your cage is and if pitch was high or low. Guarantee kid rips one and it hits top 15 feet down the tobacco spitters are all over him. Dom keep up the good work. Our organization just got hit trax for our brand new facility. Should be operational within the month. Can't wait. Little Johnny with the 65mph exit velocity hitting the back of the cage is officially out of business. Til you can get hit trax or similar the rope idea is great - combined with a gun of course, launch angle without exit velocity is an incomplete picture. Good luck!

2020, so you are a proponent of teaching little Johnny  with 65mph exit velo to try to hit the ball at a launch angle of 25 degrees, correct?   And it sounds like you include the average HS player in the group that is little Johnny, correct?

Approximately what swing plane are you proposing to be taught to achieve that angle?  What level/s of play is the data from that tells us that this is the optimal angle?

25 degrees is not really that steep, it is listed as a high line drive by statcast. 

I would guess a ball hit at 65 degrees at 25 degrees lands behind the infield and in front of the of most of the time at least on the small field (most hs players will probably hit 70+ anyway). 

OK, while I'm waiting for 2020's response, I'll ask you some similar questions...

So, you put most HS players at 70+ exit velo.  What would you say such a player should have as a target launch angle?  And what swing plane would you teach to the average HS player?  

Ok I am here!  I would teach the major league swing. This of course should be the same as a good college swing. That's the goal. I don't believe in cutting corners for expediency only to have to reprogram the kid later. While there is certainly some variance generally speaking an attack angle (what we can control mechanically and different than launch angle) of 10 to 15 degrees is what I would strive for.   Launch angle of anywhere from 15 to 25ish. Maybe a tad more as well. And swing as hard as you can within your mechanics. This would not change for me regardless of age. Truth is a more level swing promotes even less contact at young ages. The angle the slow pitching of youth comes in at is much steeper than the roughly 8 degrees in MLB. So let's just say it's coming in at 15 degrees. Then a 15 degree attack angle really would simply be level to the plane of the pitch. Nothing more damaging than teaching young kids to hit ground balls because they are often hits. Does nothing for their future. Turn and burn!!

P.s. I would hope to God the average HS player is above 65mph. So no little Johnny is not the average HS player. Little Johnny refers more to the batting cage hero who hits soft line drives to the back of the screen while daddyball coach tells him how great he is. Then the first time he has to try out for a team not coached by daddy he gets cut or fails. 

2020dad posted:

Ok I am here!  I would teach the major league swing. This of course should be the same as a good college swing. That's the goal. I don't believe in cutting corners for expediency only to have to reprogram the kid later. While there is certainly some variance generally speaking an attack angle (what we can control mechanically and different than launch angle) of 10 to 15 degrees is what I would strive for.   Launch angle of anywhere from 15 to 25ish. Maybe a tad more as well. And swing as hard as you can within your mechanics. This would not change for me regardless of age. Truth is a more level swing promotes even less contact at young ages. The angle the slow pitching of youth comes in at is much steeper than the roughly 8 degrees in MLB. So let's just say it's coming in at 15 degrees. Then a 15 degree attack angle really would simply be level to the plane of the pitch. Nothing more damaging than teaching young kids to hit ground balls because they are often hits. Does nothing for their future. Turn and burn!!

OK, thanks 2020.  So since your desired swing plane is 10-15 and your desired launch angle is 15-25, then math would say that your optimal swing would result in hitting slightly under center of the ball to create that launch angle, correct?  And, if so, what is your "teach" to connect the two (desired plane being slightly lower than desired launch angle)?

Oh, and it looks like you have figured out some calculating with this so help me out if you can... let's say my L screen is set up about 30' from the plate and top of net is 10' high and tee is set at about 2 1/2 feet high.  How far past or in front of the L screen would the ball hit the top of the net with a 25 degree launch angle?

cabbagedad posted:
Dominik85 posted:
cabbagedad posted:
2020dad posted:

... Folks can we clear this up for the last time...  physics are physics and old school mentality doesn't change that. If you hit the back of the cage first off it might just be caught by the pitcher second it better be absolutely smoked or it may not even make it out of the infield. Second base is 127' 3 3/8" from home plate as we know. A good shortstop who can range behind the bag may be 150'? From the plate. Unless you hit the very top of the back of the cage that's a ground ball. Could it be a ground ball up the middle base hit?  Sure. But better have a pretty good exit velocity. And even so if a guy hits .300 with all singles up the middle...  that's called a useless hitter. Same BA as slugging pct.  not good.  We have to fight this mentality that home runs are 'mistakes'. Home runs and extra base hits are the goal. Pop ups and ground balls are the mistakes. Oh and by the way Dom I know you are meticulous in your research so you may be interested to know that a ball hit at the optimum launch angle if 25 degrees strikes the top of the cage - ready - 12 to 15 feet from the plate depending on how high your cage is and if pitch was high or low. Guarantee kid rips one and it hits top 15 feet down the tobacco spitters are all over him. Dom keep up the good work. Our organization just got hit trax for our brand new facility. Should be operational within the month. Can't wait. Little Johnny with the 65mph exit velocity hitting the back of the cage is officially out of business. Til you can get hit trax or similar the rope idea is great - combined with a gun of course, launch angle without exit velocity is an incomplete picture. Good luck!

2020, so you are a proponent of teaching little Johnny  with 65mph exit velo to try to hit the ball at a launch angle of 25 degrees, correct?   And it sounds like you include the average HS player in the group that is little Johnny, correct?

Approximately what swing plane are you proposing to be taught to achieve that angle?  What level/s of play is the data from that tells us that this is the optimal angle?

25 degrees is not really that steep, it is listed as a high line drive by statcast. 

I would guess a ball hit at 65 degrees at 25 degrees lands behind the infield and in front of the of most of the time at least on the small field (most hs players will probably hit 70+ anyway). 

OK, while I'm waiting for 2020's response, I'll ask you some similar questions...

So, you put most HS players at 70+ exit velo.  What would you say such a player should have as a target launch angle?  And what swing plane would you teach to the average HS player?  

I think peak batting average disregarding of power is around 15 degrees. 

 

So, you put most HS players at 70+ exit velo.  What would you say such a player should have as a target launch angle?  And what swing plane would you teach to the average HS player?  

I think peak batting average disregarding of power is around 15 degrees. 

Are you talking launch angle, swing plane or both?  What is your "teach" with optimal launch angle and swing plane?  If plane is not same as desired launch angle, how do you address or "teach" the difference and how to accomplish the launch angle with a different swing plane (if different)?

cabbagedad posted:
2020dad posted:

Ok I am here!  I would teach the major league swing. This of course should be the same as a good college swing. That's the goal. I don't believe in cutting corners for expediency only to have to reprogram the kid later. While there is certainly some variance generally speaking an attack angle (what we can control mechanically and different than launch angle) of 10 to 15 degrees is what I would strive for.   Launch angle of anywhere from 15 to 25ish. Maybe a tad more as well. And swing as hard as you can within your mechanics. This would not change for me regardless of age. Truth is a more level swing promotes even less contact at young ages. The angle the slow pitching of youth comes in at is much steeper than the roughly 8 degrees in MLB. So let's just say it's coming in at 15 degrees. Then a 15 degree attack angle really would simply be level to the plane of the pitch. Nothing more damaging than teaching young kids to hit ground balls because they are often hits. Does nothing for their future. Turn and burn!!

OK, thanks 2020.  So since your desired swing plane is 10-15 and your desired launch angle is 15-25, then math would say that your optimal swing would result in hitting slightly under center of the ball to create that launch angle, correct?  And, if so, what is your "teach" to connect the two (desired plane being slightly lower than desired launch angle)?

Oh, and it looks like you have figured out some calculating with this so help me out if you can... let's say my L screen is set up about 30' from the plate and top of net is 10' high and tee is set at about 2 1/2 feet high.  How far past or in front of the L screen would the ball hit the top of the net with a 25 degree launch angle?

I did the math in a prior post. 

10 degrees is about top of the screen or where back and top of the cage meet. 

15 degrees is about 30 feet away from home (you can do the math were that is in relation to the screen)  and 25 degrees is about 20 feet from home. 

dominick, shhhh.  You're giving away the store here, man.

What will happen to those 99% of kids that would have never started their HS team if they suddenly stop hitting those 0 deg shots into the screen (for 50ft max distance)??  And what will happen to those old instructors/coaches/scouts???

boom

 

SultanofSwat posted:

dominick, shhhh.  You're giving away the store here, man.

What will happen to those 99% of kids that would have never started their HS team if they suddenly stop hitting those 0 deg shots into the screen (for 50ft max distance)??  And what will happen to those old instructors/coaches/scouts???

boom

 

I do not think this is a magic pill that makes everyone a high level athlete. you still need to learn proper mechanics, as you can hit up with a bad swing too. 

I just think training should be game specific and since statcast told us that 10-30 degrees is the best training should probably reflect that. 

I don't think you need to try undercutting the ball either. if you swing at plus 15 degrees which I think is around average for good hitters you will hit some balls lower and some balls higher if you square them up.  15 degrees is probably around average (zepp lists trout at 18, altuve at 15, rizzo at 9 and pence at 22). 

15 is also right in the middle of the statcast line drive range of 10-25 so i think that is probably the value players are shooting for. sometimes you get above the ball and sometimes below it. 

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