Minimum Velocity to pitch in college

"How good you are at other things"... What do you mean, specifically?  Are you talking about being a two way player?  Pitching and playing another position as well?  Or being a Pitcher/DH?  That kind of thing

There are pitchers at the low level D3's that throw high 70's to low 80's

3and2Fastball posted:

"How good you are at other things"... What do you mean, specifically?  Are you talking about being a two way player?  Pitching and playing another position as well?  Or being a Pitcher/DH?  That kind of thing

There are pitchers at the low level D3's that throw high 70's to low 80's

By "other things i mostly meant control and off speed.

We'll see what others I have to say.  I've personally seen plenty of D3 pitchers throw fastballs in the high 70's in games.  Generally most will say you need to throw 80 to get college interest at the lowest levels

85+ as a lefty pitcher will get you D1 interest.  High 80's as a right hand pitcher for D1

gutsnglory posted:

I understand that there are huge velocity ranges, but is there speed that would be a deal breaker no matter how good you are at other things? 

No. There is not one speed or situation where a coach is going to say I'm not interested.   There is more to pitching than velocity and I could rattle off a dozen or so things a college recruiter is going to look at holistically to make a determination if they are initially interested in a recruit.  If you want an answer, I think you are going to have to ask the coach themselves and I really don't think that is a good question to ask.  I think a better question would be to ask "what are the velocity ranges of your current pitching staff".  So, this will give you an idea of the range across a typical college pitching staff of 17 players on a roster of 35 players.

There are many other considerations (movement, control, projectability, coachability, work ethic, frame, mechanics, etc..) across a wide variety of schools and situations.   My son played with a pitcher (D1) who officially played exactly 1 inning in his entire 4 year college career beyond practice.  He was a submariner and probably couldn't break a glass window with his fastball.   He graduated with a 0.00 ERA.   Do you know what he had going for him?  He was very smart and his family endowed the Athletic Director's salary.  He is currently in the front office of an MLB team.  LIke I said, there are all kinds of considerations that schools look at.  ;-)

Answer that Dads want to hear: 75 and your son is that special snowflake

Answer that is more close to real: 87-93 at least once in front of a scout, depending on school, for weekend starters

(Dad thought bubble... but, but I saw a kid throw a few two seamers in relief in a D3 game during the week once at 78..)

Think of this as a pyramid. Hundreds can touch 90, Thousands can touch 85. Everyone else can touch 80.  Which group do you want to be in? Which group do you want to recruit from?

All the answers above are right, and there are many more that are right depending on the situation.

Our younger son, 5-10 RHP, 85 mph in HS, pitched at a Power-5 school and left barely touching 90 but as the all-time innings-pitched leader at that school.  "Spectacular command" is how one scout describes him (now pitching in double-A).

So when you say, "By other things i mostly meant control and off speed," I say, yeah, he has/had all of that.  But your definition, mine and a college coach's may be different (I sure didn't know how to judge if he was good enough - in fact, I wouldn't let him commit for a while because I was so unsure).

In other words, they will make the judgement, no formal recipe within reasonable bounds - keep on pitching in front of people and they will decide.

This is research from 2012 in regards to what it Velocity wise to play DI, obviously a little dated, and only focuses on DI but this should give you a better idea.

Son is RHP at a mid-major.  He was getting looks from D2 and D3's once he hit 85, but he was also an all-state SS.  Never really talked to any of them, but there was real interest.  Ended up getting D1 interest and offer once he was consistently 87...touching 90.  He is now a junior.  Their pitching staff now has 5 guys who can be at 90 pretty consistently....all RHP.  Several guys 85-86, a few 87-88 and a lefty juco guy who is not much over 80.  He has friends from his years of travel that are at D2's....and were 84-85 at the time they committed....all RHP.   A LHP committed to a B1G while he was 85-86.

I went to PG and looked at the top 100 college recruiting classes for 2019s. As expected the top 25 are all loaded with 90+ RHPs, plus I must add 12-15 recruits per school (seems like too many to me). Anyway as the poser above states below that the drop off is significant. I always tell the anecdote of the BIG 12 tourney a few years back in OKC when Baylor played WVU and the Baylor kid hit 87 once and the LHP from WVU never hit 80. 2013 or 2014 I think.

After all the pitchers I've seen over the years, I've developed an inner radar..........no its not accurate........I call it " 80's"......

Get there (or near) and you can pitch somewhere......( CC, NAIA, D3,2,..etc..)...And you need one school to like you........ 

Now the variables.....add in these and its gives you more choices.......or them more choices / reasons to like you...

Tall, lefty, control. off-speed, grades, etc......you get the idea......the list of variables goes on and on........  

 

   

gutsnglory posted:

I understand that there are huge velocity ranges, but is there speed that would be a deal breaker no matter how good you are at other things? 

From what I have seen there is a minimum of 75, and this was for a VERY low totem pole D3.  So as far as a deal breaker, yes, no matter the control the kid has to be throwing at least 75 to pitch in college in my opinion.

Work on developing velocity. Never stop trying to improve. But unless you’re throwing at a jaw dropping velocity learn how to pitch. Work on command. Work on the mental side of pitching. If you work to optimize these aspects of pitching you will find your place in the game. 

Theres a lot involved with whether someone becomes a major conference D1 pitcher versus D3. But the most important thing is elevate yourself to be the best you can be. Ultimately you want to have a positive college baseball experience. When a friend’s son was in a dogpile after winning the D3 World Series he didn’t look any less happy than D1 players.

On the NCAA site, there are 299 D1 baseball teams listed.  Using an average of 15 pitchers per team, that is 4,485 guys pitching at the D1 level in any one season.  Just looking at the class of 2017, 292 RHP's threw 90 plus and 270 LHP's threw 85 plus(from PG site).  If you expand the parameters on the PG site to 2017 RHP's throwing 88 plus and LHP's throwing 84 plus, the list expands to 621 and 440.   I don't know how many of those players signed professionally but I'm guessing that number is close to how many were unaccounted for, leaving approximately 1000 pitchers above 88 and 84 available for D1's to recruit from HS.  Mix in JUCO's that sign D1 to pitch and that doesn't leave much room for guys below those thresholds to catch a coaches eyes, even if they are fully capable at competing at that level.  Fortunately, it does happen from time to time. 

Feel free to challenge my math on this, I won't get offended.  I looked at three D1's and two had 16 pitchers and the other 14, hardly a representative sample of all D1's.  Would also like to know how many 2017 HS pitchers signed professionally out of HS? 

Catch1721 posted:

On the NCAA site, there are 299 D1 baseball teams listed.  Using an average of 15 pitchers per team, that is 4,485 guys pitching at the D1 level in any one season.  Just looking at the class of 2017, 292 RHP's threw 90 plus and 270 LHP's threw 85 plus(from PG site).  If you expand the parameters on the PG site to 2017 RHP's throwing 88 plus and LHP's throwing 84 plus, the list expands to 621 and 440.   I don't know how many of those players signed professionally but I'm guessing that number is close to how many were unaccounted for, leaving approximately 1000 pitchers above 88 and 84 available for D1's to recruit from HS.  Mix in JUCO's that sign D1 to pitch and that doesn't leave much room for guys below those thresholds to catch a coaches eyes, even if they are fully capable at competing at that level.  Fortunately, it does happen from time to time. 

Feel free to challenge my math on this, I won't get offended.  I looked at three D1's and two had 16 pitchers and the other 14, hardly a representative sample of all D1's.  Would also like to know how many 2017 HS pitchers signed professionally out of HS? 

He said college.  Not D1.  How many college programs are there in the US?  Don't forget JUCO and NAIA....there is a huge wide door for many pitchers.

Disclaimer - Not real good in math...  So a quick search of The Google says there are around 1,140  four year colleges/universities (D1-D3 and NAIA) of all levels playing baseball.  Using 15 pitchers as a average ballpark, that means there are 17,100 pitchers needed at 4 year schools at any given time.  That is alot of arms!  Then you add another 500 or so junior colleges and that is another 7.5K or so for a very rough estimate of 24.5K +- arms needed in collegiate baseball...  When you look at it in that regard, there is a place for most kids that really want to play and are not caught up in the classification. 

http://www.scholarshipstats.com/baseball.html

2019Dad posted:
Nonamedad posted:

The only point I would add is that the top programs get the Lions share of top pitching, the top 75 may get 50% or more of the total. So that still leaves 125 D1s looking for arms.

Typo -- that leaves 225 D1s looking for arms

Ha Ha good catch. You made my argument sound even better LOL thx

Nonamedad posted:

I went to PG and looked at the top 100 college recruiting classes for 2019s. As expected the top 25 are all loaded with 90+ RHPs, plus I must add 12-15 recruits per school (seems like too many to me). Anyway as the poser above states below that the drop off is significant. I always tell the anecdote of the BIG 12 tourney a few years back in OKC when Baylor played WVU and the Baylor kid hit 87 once and the LHP from WVU never hit 80. 2013 or 2014 I think.

Just clarifying, are you saying there was a kid pitching for WVU who threw in the 70s?

If there are approximately 300 right hand pitchers in the PG database that have been 90 or better, I'm guessing there is another 50 or more  that aren't in the database.  That is in any given class there could be as many as 350 or more RHPs at 90 or better.  If you were to subtract the draft and considered Freshman, sophomores, juniors and seniors colleges account for 4 years, 4 recruiting classes.  that does not account for red shirt years.  Then there is another 50 or more LHPs throwing 90 or better each year.

If there were approximately 1,000 RHPs that fit the 88 mph range in the PG database, there are probably 300 or more that aren't in the database.  Then if there were 200 or so LHPs that can throw 88 each year, adding all the above each class has roughly 400 RHP and LHP that can throw 90 or better.  So in 4 recruiting classes there would be approximately 1,600 pitchers throwing 90 or better.  If they were divided equally among DI colleges, which they definitely are not, each DI school would have five or six 90 mph guys.  And that doesn't account for those that develop into 90+ after they enter college. Obviously the top programs get more of the 90+ guys.

Same goes with the 88 mph guys.  If there are 1500 in each recruiting class, that would account for 6,000 in four recruiting classes.  so approximately 6,000 pitchers. If they were split equally among 300 DI colleges, which doesn't happen, it would equal twenty pitchers to each program over four years. 

Then there are mid 80s pitchers that are much better than some 88-90 mph pitchers. 

So split equally by all DI programs, they would all have successfully recruited about six 90 or better pitchers and about twenty 88 or better pitchers.  That would be about 7 pitchers a year on average, but truth is the freshman and sophomore classes will have more than half so it is not uncommon to see more pitchers recruited each year.

Velocity is very important, but by itself it isn't enough.  There are mid 80s pitchers that are much better than some 88-90 mph pitchers. There are mid 80s pitchers that project to add much more velocity.  Every once in awhile you see a pitcher that throws around 80 that can be very successful against top DI hitters.  I don't think anyone should label them self a certain level of pitcher or player.  There are other people that end up doing that after they see you.  In our database we have examples of pitchers that topped out in the mid 80s while in HS, that have since thrown mid to upper 90s in the Big Leagues.

 

 

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