Terrible decision to put Darvish out there in game 7. What a blunder. Roberts will regret that for a very long while.
Florida State Fan posted:Terrible decision to put Darvish out there in game 7. What a blunder. Roberts will regret that for a very long while.
Food for thought....
What if Bellinger makes the play after the double?
All I hear this morning is how they should have started Kershaw but he was really pitching without much pressure last night. Would it have been different if he started?
If you’re basing it on Darvish’s last start, Kershaw’s last start wasn’t so great either and he gave up a four run lead.
Lastly, McCullers probably didn’t pitch any better than Darvish but his teammates cut down their swings and produced runs with some unselfish at-bats in the first inning. The Dodgers approach with runners on didn’t really change IMO.
Again, just food for thought.
Absolutely correct. Kershaw down 5-0 has zero pressure & threw it like a regular season game. If he starts, it is likely a different deal for him as he has shown repeatedly. The big play was the line drive DP to Correa in the Second with runners on first & second with 1 out. If that finds a hole it is game on.
hshuler posted:Florida State Fan posted:Terrible decision to put Darvish out there in game 7. What a blunder. Roberts will regret that for a very long while.
Food for thought....
What if Bellinger makes the play after the double?
All I hear this morning is how they should have started Kershaw but he was really pitching without much pressure last night. Would it have been different if he started?
If you’re basing it on Darvish’s last start, Kershaw’s last start wasn’t so great either and he gave up a four run lead.
Lastly, McCullers probably didn’t pitch any better than Darvish but his teammates cut down their swings and produced runs with some unselfish at-bats in the first inning. The Dodgers approach with runners on didn’t really change IMO.
Again, just food for thought.
I agree with you on all points.
Apperas to be a team with no egos and great chemistry.
That produces winners everytime!
Taking the view that all 27 outs are important, I tend to think the difference is unproductive outs.
Even though he struggled, McCullers was able to backfoot the young Dodger lefties into K's with RISP early in the game. Each Astro pitcher after that followed the same plan with similar success. In contrast to the K's from Seger and Bellinger, both of whom are terrific, the Astros got productive AB's from Bragman and Altuve, especially in the 1st, just putting the ball on the ground to the right side.
The inability of Bellinger and Segar to adjust to breaking balls in and down lead to totally unproductive outs especially with runners on base or RISP. The ability of Astros pitchers to consistently execute breaking pitches in and down and AB's of the type noted above gave the Astros many more productive AB's.
I continue to say: Seager is really overrated
Roberts will rightfully draw criticism. If you were going to pitch Kershaw anyways, have him start. Pinch hitting Hernandez vs a righty was weird. There were a few other things. Ultimately I think Roberts did a good job managing the series given the players he had.
The Dodgers could have gotten Verlander. Ultimately they cheaped out and settled for Darvish, which ended up being a big difference.
3and2Fastball posted:I continue to say: Seager is really overrated
Roberts will rightfully draw criticism. If you were going to pitch Kershaw anyways, have him start. Pinch hitting Hernandez vs a righty was weird. There were a few other things. Ultimately I think Roberts did a good job managing the series given the players he had.
The Dodgers could have gotten Verlander. Ultimately they cheaped out and settled for Darvish, which ended up being a big difference.
Several reports out of Detroit stated that Verlander really wanted to go to the Dodgers for obvious reasons.
By the way, Verlander, Keuchel, Morton & McCullers seems like 100+ wins again if they stay healthy.
Morton is slinging a whiffle ball up there at 96. His arm-side run is incredible.
Our very own Go44dad told me that Stern from MLB Radio ragged on the Morton signing for 30 days in January but Ludnow signed him because of trackman spin rate and movement. I think we know who got the last laugh.
Dodgers will be back and Seager and Bellinger will be better after this experience. Hitting on back to back RoYis is a nice luxury and both guys seems like good kids who are easy to root for.
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"Oh what a night"!!! The Houston Astros are your 2017 World Series Champs!!!!
Dodgers FO probably did not want the verlander contract AND give up the top prospects. Makes sense that he went with darvish though. Front office gave up a top50 prospect for him, you don't bench such a guy based on small samples. Im sure the decision was in accordance with friedman.
I do think darvish should have been pulled after giving up the third run though. His command was not good and he shouldn't have faced springer who made it 5-0 and decided the game.
I agree 100% with HSULER. The "keep it simple" ABs early w RISP for 'Stros was the difference. Non-greedy swings w RISP by young but mature Astros hitters vs the long ball upper cuts and chases by young Dodger hitters proved to be the game changer early.
"Lastly, McCullers probably didn’t pitch any better than Darvish but his teammates cut down their swings and produced runs with some unselfish at-bats in the first inning. The Dodgers approach with runners on didn’t really change IMO." - HSHULER
Those tweets about Verlander are just hearsay.
Roberts is taking heat, and IMO he deserves it. They need a pitching coach change. I wasnt impressed with any pitcher, JMO.
Congrats to Carlos Beltran and Justin Verlander.
Darvish sorry to say is a hitter's pitcher. Not a game 7 type pitcher, never. Dagit, huge mistake. Cost the Dodgers the world series. I would have had Morrow pitch. Even if for only 1-2 innings until I got Kershaw back in.
Everyone can bash Roberts all they want but the fact of the matter is that The Dodgers scored 1 run in game 7. You can speculate about Darvish & Kershaw all day long but the fact of the matter is that Morton made all the difference in that game. Unbelievably clutch performance on the biggest stage.
TPM posted:Those tweets about Verlander is just hearsay.
Roberts is taking heat, and IMO he deserves it. They need a pitching coach change. I wasnt impressed with any pitcher, JMO.
Congrats to Carlos Beltran and Justin Verlander.
Agree. I'm happy for the Astros and Beltran and Verlander both great ambassadors of the game.
Florida State Fan posted:Darvish sorry to say is a hitter's pitcher. Not a game 7 type pitcher, never. Dagit, huge mistake. Cost the Dodgers the world series. I would have had Morrow pitch. Even if for only 1-2 innings until I got Kershaw back in.
Not so sure about that. We've faced him many times when he was with the Rangers. He's always pitched us tough, came within 1 out of a no-hitter against us. They went and added him for a reason, it just didn't work out that's all.
hshuler posted:Dear Baseball -
Great series! I miss you already.
Regards,
Shu
P.S. Hurry back!
Yeah, but now the clock is ticking on some key roster moves for every team... qualifying offers, extension pick-ups, etc... key decisions to be made starting this next week!
Texas 2 Sons posted:Florida State Fan posted:Darvish sorry to say is a hitter's pitcher. Not a game 7 type pitcher, never. Dagit, huge mistake. Cost the Dodgers the world series. I would have had Morrow pitch. Even if for only 1-2 innings until I got Kershaw back in.
Not so sure about that. We've faced him many times when he was with the Rangers. He's always pitched us tough, came within 1 out of a no-hitter against us. They went and added him for a reason, it just didn't work out that's all.
Again, just my opinion, but I thought that Darvish nibbled too much, pitched behind in the count and never established the FB.
No skin in the game but I never saw Darvish look nearly as pedestrian as he did in his two starts. Same goes for several of the pitchers in the series, both teams. I think the ball was a factor for just about every pitcher, some more than others. Command was an issue. A whole lot of breaking balls were either left way up or spiked. Lots of HBP when the situation certainly didn't call for it. Pitches were completely yanked.
But more so, I Just wish that last game had more drama to match up to the rest of the series.
My thoughts.
Dodgers did not lose the WS, the Astro's won it! Congrats to them it's a huge gift for the city of Houston.
Most people don't realize how bad they were for 4 years, plus never winning a WS, plus the hurricane... karma and baseball became one last night.
Darvish was acquired specifically for this reason - they did not get this far the past two years by over using Kershaw. It did not work out. That's baseball, get over it.
The fact that the Dodgers got to a game 7 with their top batters hitting for the series:
Taylor & Seager: 0.205
Turner: 0.160
Puig: 0.148
Bellinger: 0.143 with 17 strikeouts.
...is a testament in itself and shows the depth of the team. They left 10 men on and scored one run last night. You won't win many high pressure games doing this.
They are young, with great management, both on field and back office, plus the financial resources. They will be back, very soon.
Someone had to lose in what was the best World Series that I can think of.
What I want to know is what Correa would have done if they lost...
Very happy that the Astros won. To be honest, it was more of a relief than joy when the last out was made.
I think the Astros adjusted more than the Dodgers. The believe the balls are different and some pitchers were affected by it. As an example, Peacock is a 50/50 fastball/slider pitcher. He threw very few sliders in the world series. Darvish kept throwing sliders and lost command. Also Hinch left his guys in if they were throwing well. Kept Giles off the mound when it was clear he couldn't handle the moment, or the WS ball.
Astros also caught some breaks in game 7. Reverse was true in game 6.
Astros are a very fun, young, talented group. I hope everyone got to see the post game interviews by MLB with Altuve, Correa, Springer, Peacock (after game 5). This is who they really are. Let's see if success, contracts etc change them.
Springer is a good story. Somewhat of a late bloomer. Life time issue with a speech impediment.
Peacock is also a good story. Lifetime "AAAA" guy. Nine years in minors. Another pitcher showed him a different grip for a slider in a bullpen a couple years ago. Then things changed.
Steve A. posted:Everyone can bash Roberts all they want but the fact of the matter is that The Dodgers scored 1 run in game 7. You can speculate about Darvish & Kershaw all day long but the fact of the matter is that Morton made all the difference in that game. Unbelievably clutch performance on the biggest stage.
YES! Totally under-rated! Morton was SIZZLING HOT both appearances! Really like his demeaner/composure. He's a thinker, & crafty!
cabbagedad posted:No skin in the game but I never saw Darvish look nearly as pedestrian as he did in his two starts. Same goes for several of the pitchers in the series, both teams. I think the ball was a factor for just about every pitcher, some more than others. Command was an issue. A whole lot of breaking balls were either left way up or spiked. Lots of HBP when the situation certainly didn't call for it. Pitches were completely yanked.
But more so, I Just wish that last game had more drama to match up to the rest of the series.
Have a friend who played in the show (and got a wee bit of black ink). Saw him Halloween trick or treating and I asked his opinion of Game 7. He smirked and said, "Darvish is pitching. Don't bother watching, Houston's got this." In a moment, I got the difference between a fairly informed fan and an actual baseball guy. He thought it was crazy that Roberts gave him the ball.
The Dodgers could have had Koufax pitching and it wouldn't make a difference. You have to score runs. It's kind of amazing that they made it to game seven with their main guys doing so poorly.
JCG posted:The Dodgers could have had Koufax pitching and it wouldn't make a difference. You have to score runs. It's kind of amazing that they made it to game seven with their main guys doing so poorly.
Nobody from the Dodgers stepped up. Joc was the clear MVP but he choked tonight. He's the only guy on the team who hit .300. The 3-4-5 hitters hit .160, .143, and .148.
hsbaseball101 posted:JCG posted:The Dodgers could have had Koufax pitching and it wouldn't make a difference. You have to score runs. It's kind of amazing that they made it to game seven with their main guys doing so poorly.
Nobody from the Dodgers stepped up. Joc was the clear MVP but he choked tonight. He's the only guy on the team who hit .300. The 3-4-5 hitters hit .160, .143, and .148.
Pederson absolutely smoked the ball with the bases loaded in his first at-bat. If he gets that in the air, it’s a grand slam or bases clearing double at the least. I think he also got another hit later in the game.
100% agree. Sometimes the bounces go your way and sometimes they don't. That's what makes baseball so exciting and maddening all at the same time. Game 6 everything went the Dodgers way. Game 7 was the Astros turn.
I also think that the Astros showed to the nation what we regular fans already knew, that their defense is pretty darn good! I watched about 50 or so Astros games this year and they played that way all season. Anybody who still thinks that Turner is a better defensive 3rd baseman than Bregman just doesn't understand baseball.
The one Dodger I really was impressed by both in the field and at the plate was Chris Taylor. That kid can really play some ball!!!
JCG posted:The Dodgers could have had Koufax pitching and it wouldn't make a difference. You have to score runs. It's kind of amazing that they made it to game seven with their main guys doing so poorly.
The Dodgers scored one. Koufax won a lot of 1-0 games. 😀
I get your point.
RJM posted:JCG posted:The Dodgers could have had Koufax pitching and it wouldn't make a difference. You have to score runs. It's kind of amazing that they made it to game seven with their main guys doing so poorly.
The Dodgers scored one. Koufax won a lot of 1-0 games. 😀
I get your point.
Per Joe Posnanski, Koufax was in ten 1-0 games during his career. He won every one of them.
OskiSD posted:RJM posted:JCG posted:The Dodgers could have had Koufax pitching and it wouldn't make a difference. You have to score runs. It's kind of amazing that they made it to game seven with their main guys doing so poorly.
The Dodgers scored one. Koufax won a lot of 1-0 games. 😀
I get your point.
Per Joe Posnanski, Koufax was in ten 1-0 games during his career. He won every one of them.
He’s a superhero!
JCG;
The SF Giants with Willie Mays, Tom Haller and many other great players prepared DODGERS. The advance Scouts discovered that Sandy was "tipping" his pitches. The Giant's hitters knew in advance. "They still could not hit him"
Ron Perranoski, my MSU and Basin League teammate was the "closer" and won 16 games one year. His stories were "bit of history"
Bob
Consultant posted:JCG;
The SF Giants with Willie Mays, Tom Haller and many other great players prepared DODGERS. The advance Scouts discovered that Sandy was "tipping" his pitches. The Giant's hitters knew in advance. "They still could not hit him"
Ron Perranoski, my MSU and Basin League teammate was the "closer" and won 16 games one year. His stories were "bit of history"
Bob
My favorite story like that is the possibly apocryphal one about Hank Aaron. Hope I'm remembering it right:
The Dodgers pitching/coaching staff were mtg before a series with the Braves to discuss how to go after their hitters. The coaches shared detailed plans for the Braves' lineup, including Eddie Mathews, but didn't mention a plan for Aaron. At one point a young pitcher noticed and asked, "What about Aaron?"
As the story goes, there was a moment of silence and then someone said, "When he hits one, make sure nobody's on base."
hshuler posted:Dear Baseball -
Great series! I miss you already.
Regards,
Shu
P.S. Hurry back!
There’s always the MLB Network... at least that’s how I’m getting my fix tonight. Thursday night football only eases the pain so much when your a baseball junkie!
Some folks may not remember the controversy a few years back when the Cardinals were guilty of hacking the Astros GM Jeff Luhnow. There were comments asking why the Cards who won 95 every year would need to hack a former front office guy on a team losing 105 per year.
Now we know......
The Astros should be very tough the next few years but the AL with the Indians, Sox and Yanks is absolutely loaded. The Dodgers, Cubs and Nats give the NL a strong top end. If the Giants, Mets and White Sox get it together baseball could be entering one of those rare times when there are number of really great teams and are also the ones with the biggest cities/fanbases. October could provide compelling baseball for years with these teams being so evenly matched.
luv baseball posted:Some folks may not remember the controversy a few years back when the Cardinals were guilty of hacking the Astros GM Jeff Luhnow. There were comments asking why the Cards who won 95 every year would need to hack a former front office guy on a team losing 105 per year.
Now we know......
The Astros should be very tough the next few years but the AL with the Indians, Sox and Yanks is absolutely loaded. The Dodgers, Cubs and Nats give the NL a strong top end. If the Giants, Mets and White Sox get it together baseball could be entering one of those rare times when there are number of really great teams and are also the ones with the biggest cities/fanbases. October could provide compelling baseball for years with these teams being so evenly matched.
Mets?
"Hot Stove" what a cool word. Farmers, coal miners, horsemen and all the townfolk gather round, warm up a bit at the general store from the fierce winter cold. Chat about the weather, steam trains that run on time and the silly notion that those two bicycle makers from Ohio that say they can ride one into the air. But mostly talk about the sport that owns the land. Talk about how Honus Wagner only hit .222 and made 6 errors to let them down in the best of nine series to the Boston Americans. Sure, Boston had Cy Young, but that Bill Dinneen guy pitched four complete games for them.
Here is a picture of ole' Bill smiling after the series before he went back to work at the factory.
I really like this time of year, although this will be my first with a team that won it. Kinda worried about "too much celebrationitis" that caught the Cubs last year.
I listened to Gabe Kapler on mlb radio yesterday. Very impressed. I think I will follow the Phillies this offseason. They are loaded with prospects, have been stocking up on them the last few years. Finally out from under some of the big contract mistakes they made.
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brball posted:luv baseball posted:Some folks may not remember the controversy a few years back when the Cardinals were guilty of hacking the Astros GM Jeff Luhnow. There were comments asking why the Cards who won 95 every year would need to hack a former front office guy on a team losing 105 per year.
Now we know......
The Astros should be very tough the next few years but the AL with the Indians, Sox and Yanks is absolutely loaded. The Dodgers, Cubs and Nats give the NL a strong top end. If the Giants, Mets and White Sox get it together baseball could be entering one of those rare times when there are number of really great teams and are also the ones with the biggest cities/fanbases. October could provide compelling baseball for years with these teams being so evenly matched.
Mets?
They were in the World Series 2 years ago and are in NY (although with crummy ownership)....if they can get the pitching straightened out and keep the team on field and out of the whirlpool they could win 87/88 games and sneak in. They do have a some holes to fill which is why I qualified it with "IF the Giants, Mets.....get it together."
In NL there are 3 really good teams and the rest have problems. The ones that fix their issues best will get in.
luv baseball posted:brball posted:luv baseball posted:Some folks may not remember the controversy a few years back when the Cardinals were guilty of hacking the Astros GM Jeff Luhnow. There were comments asking why the Cards who won 95 every year would need to hack a former front office guy on a team losing 105 per year.
Now we know......
The Astros should be very tough the next few years but the AL with the Indians, Sox and Yanks is absolutely loaded. The Dodgers, Cubs and Nats give the NL a strong top end. If the Giants, Mets and White Sox get it together baseball could be entering one of those rare times when there are number of really great teams and are also the ones with the biggest cities/fanbases. October could provide compelling baseball for years with these teams being so evenly matched.
Mets?
They were in the World Series 2 years ago and are in NY (although with crummy ownership)....if they can get the pitching straightened out and keep the team on field and out of the whirlpool they could win 87/88 games and sneak in. They do have a some holes to fill which is why I qualified it with "IF the Giants, Mets.....get it together."
In NL there are 3 really good teams and the rest have problems. The ones that fix their issues best will get in.
The Mets felt really good about their pitching situation going into the season. Injuries aided in a bad start that they couldn’t recover from.
They definitely still have enough talent to be dangerous.
What do you make of the reports indicating that Darvish may have been tipping his pitches? Apparently Eduardo Perez saw something and made a commentary that has legs.
Midlo Dad posted:What do you make of the reports indicating that Darvish may have been tipping his pitches? Apparently Eduardo Perez saw something and made a commentary that has legs.
I saw more that he couldn't command his slider, and couldn't/didn't or wasn't allowed to adjust.
I believe the "slick ball" stuff I keep hearing, as Astro pitchers adjusted what they throw. Specifically Peacock and Verlander.
Midlo Dad posted:What do you make of the reports indicating that Darvish may have been tipping his pitches? Apparently Eduardo Perez saw something and made a commentary that has legs.
He probably was tipping pitches....not to mention he was also putting the ball thigh high down the middle which didn't help either.
He put the Dodgers in a hole both games he started. In the small sample of games I've seen him pitch over the years he has yet to impress me as an elite pitcher. He's made $11M this year, and he is a free agent now at 32 years old. We'll see if the hot stove market says in a few months.