Need advice PG scoring question

My son is a 2019 RHP/1B 6-3 210 attended 2017 PG Sunshine SE and received a 7 rating and follow grade in our state. Topped, but was also consistent at 82 on mound and controlled zone well with all pitches. Ran a very slow 60 7.7.  His trainer electronically times him at 7.2 to 7.3 routinely. He hit well and received a write up in scouts notes but showed no power in his 6 abs. 3 singles off decent to top level pitching.  He wants to pitch in college and is looking at D2 D3 schools.  His grades are decent 3.4 and 24 on ACT.

He sat 83-84 this summer topping at 85 on stalker during his travel season.  None of which were PG events. So the 82 is still what shows up on his PG profile. Lots of camp invites significant juco interest but no real 4 year interest, yet.  

My question for the forum--should he attend the PG uncommitted event in Ft. Meyers in January before his Junior season begins. I'm confident that he would throw 85-86, based on his summer times and his typical year to year velo increase of 3-4 mph. I know he would improve his 60 time from extremely slow to at least slow 7.3. 

Granted this is hypothetical, but would a 3-5 mph jump in velo from 82 to 86 and increase in speed from 7.7 to 7.3 even make a difference to his PG score?  And does timing matter?  If these new numbers posted before his Jr season began vs after the season ends.  Also should he attend the next PG event as a PO?  I got to think the speed impacted his overall score some but not sure how that impacts PG score for two way player v PO  

Our plan had been to attend the 2018 PG sunshine southeast but we can easily attend the uncommitted event if it makes more sense or can kick start some recruiting interest. 

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Original Post

You're putting too many eggs in the PG info.

First, has your son compiled a list of target 4 yr schools?  If so, has he contacted them and begun to work on getting them to see him?

My reason for asking is that you may find it far more cost effective and efficient to get to those schools camps and let their EYES get directly on your son rather than simply shotgun for good metrics on PG website and then hope that interest will roll in.

If he doesn't have a target of 4 year schools, then you really need to spend some time formulating your strategy and approach, then make a plan to execute.

Nothing beats the eyeball test and your best bet is to try and get in front of the eyeballs your son has an interest in.  Even with above average PG metrics, teams are still going to want to see your son.

If his target is simply any P5 school, then definitely keep going the PG showcase route and hope to make a splash at a national level.

if he wants to be a pitcher his 60 time doesn't matter, get him in a quality program, get him playing in quality events and he will draw plenty of interest assuming he returns to the 85 range....if he goes beyond you will have more interest. He has the body #'s that people will get all excited over and discuss how there is more in the tank and so forth. if he commands the zone at all in decent events he is going to have plenty of looks from various levels.

I would start the conversation with him on what he is looking for in school, type, size, location...maybe start some informal visits on a weekend so he can start to see what he may or may not like.

if he was power 5 potential you would already be aware of it...so you are on the right track there.

 

At this point I wouldn't worry about the PG score.  The difference between being a 7 and an 8 is not worth worrying about.  Realistically I would look at pitching....considering he's a RH.  Very few Power 5's will have a guy 2 way at RHP and 1B...and most will want a left at 1B.   I would worry more about getting him in front of coaches on the travel circuit next summer where he'll be seen instead of worrying about  PG rating.  That's not going to get a kid at 85-86 recruited anyway...coaches will want to see him...and considering his size, you want him to be seen.  Realistically a power 5 is looking for more than 85-86 from a RHP....they have 1000's to choose from throwing that velocity.  My son is at a mid-major....every guy they have brought in the past 3 years has been at least that when they were recruited.....most touching 90 fairly regularly.   

I second Nuke's advice.  If you are targeting D2, D3, his current and projected skill set (and size) on the mound will likely get him attention.  He should focus on continued efforts to maximize that skill set, get the best grades he can, start narrowing the school search and figure out the best way to get in front of those schools.  If it happens to be another PG Event, then you can kill 2 birds. 

Does he play with the right travel team that will get him in front of some of his schools next summer/fall?  If he is at the right events, there will be guns out.

To answer another question you had..  If he knows he wants to be a P in college and that is the part of his game that stands out, then yes, I would attend the next PG event as a PO.   We can't see and don't know your son so this is a very general suggestion.

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful. He is not looking at power 5 he knows his numbers don't justify.  Really prefers a midsize to smaller environment to go to college. 

He has been invited to play with a travel team this summer that wil be playing in 5 national events. Last summer he was on a regional college showcase team. 

Before I sent him to a PG showcase or any other showcase, I'd make sure that the schools on your list are going to be there.  If they aren't, there's no point.  I agree with previous posts,  if you develop a list of target schools, whether they are d1,2, or 3, contact them directly- many will have camps over the holidays, or at a minimum will be open to hosting a non official visit.  You'll be much more efficient, learn more about he schools and they'll get to know your son better.

 

 

cutfb posted:

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful. He is not looking at power 5 he knows his numbers don't justify.  Really prefers a midsize to smaller environment to go to college. 

He has been invited to play with a travel team this summer that wil be playing in 5 national events. Last summer he was on a regional college showcase team. 

This is a great start....with his size, if he's 85-86 he'll get plenty of exposure.  If he has a list of schools he is interested in, make sure to contact them ahead of time and let them know where he'll be playing.  They will typically let you know if they will be there.  Also, hopefully the travel coaches will have a pitching rotation set several days in advance of each tourney so you can let coaches know specific games when they can see him throw.  Much easier to get a coach to show up knowing they'll see a player than hoping they will make it to 6 games over the weekend having no idea when he'll get the ball.

if you haven't done so, do yourself and your son a favor and come up with a list. based on whatever criteria you want-   but have a list.   this really helped both of my sons - they really had no idea what they wanted when I forced the issue.    what I found was that this forced some thought- forced them to understand  what they wanted out of school and in a school.  Initial list gives you a starting point, you'll find that as they think about it, the list will get whittled down fairly quickly-   and you can focus your efforts on those schools.

 

CUTFB,

Speaking from in-house experience, I believe a low PG grade will not hurt your son, however a high PG grade will help him.  If that makes any sense?  I'm not a fan of doing any showcases in the off season, especially if your player is not a true one sport, player who trains year round.  Especially a PG showcase which is a grade and a write-up that will live on the web for long time.  Son just recently shook a low grade that he had to live with for some time.  I never felt it hurt him as coaches 99% of time trust only their eyes, but it sure did not help him! 

Consider the June 2018 PG Academic Showcase to improve his score.  Or, by looking at his target list of schools (as PABASEBALL recommends above), cut your losses with PG showcases, and do targeted showcases.  Those coaches won't care a lick about his 7 on PG. 

As far as going as a PO?   I think going to the showcase or not as a PO isn't the question at this point.  I think the question is, should he be a PO full time, or not?  Then do what he is at the PG event.  But if he is still playing both ways and training as a two-way player year round (travel and school) ?  Then what's there to be afraid of?  Must be a two way player for a reason.  Showcase it.  

But if you're worried his fielding and hitting is pulling his pitching grade down at a PG showcase, then it must also be doing it at other tournaments and outings (school and travel) ?  Hope I'm making sense here.  

As far as hypothetically attending another PG event where he throws well at 85, 86?  As a PO?   Yes, you will see a jump on that grade.  By at least a full point or even 1.5.  As far as running the 60 as a PO?  Unless he is a sub 7.0 I wouldn't worry about the 60, and not run it.  But if he's 86 from the mound and can run a 6.9 or lower, it can only help by demonstrating athleticism and upside for more potential.  If he goes as a 2-way guy he will have to run it.  Anything above a 7.2 will not help and begin to be a big negative. 

But really, don't worry about the PG grade.  My son had a low grade and I NEVER felt it hurt him.  Hard to believe, I know.  But I swear it didn't.  DIDN'T HELP HIM EITHER!!  But didn't hurt him......that I am aware of.  Not one coach ever mentioned it throughout his recruitment.  

Hope this helps. 

cutfb posted:

Thanks for the feedback. Very helpful. He is not looking at power 5 he knows his numbers don't justify.  Really prefers a midsize to smaller environment to go to college. 

He has been invited to play with a travel team this summer that wil be playing in 5 national events. Last summer he was on a regional college showcase team. 

Cool.  Depending on the school list, regional showcases may be sufficient.  I understand the "cast a wide net" directive and agree.  But that should be somewhat tempered (very much depending on the individual) with the fact that a large majority end up going to a college within their home region for a variety of reasons.

That said, the organizations that attend the national events do tend to have more extensive reach with connections and carry more credible clout.

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

CUTFB,

Speaking from in-house experience, I believe a low PG grade can not hurt your son, however a high PG grade will help him.  If that makes any sense?  I'm not a fan of doing any showcases in the off season, especially if your player is not a true one sport, player who trains year round.  Especially a PG showcase which is a grade and a write-up that will live on the web for long time.  Son just recently shook a low grade that he had to live with for some time.  I never felt it hurt him as coaches 99% of time trust only their eyes, but it sure did not help him! 

Consider the June 2018 PG Academic Showcase to improve his score.  Or, by looking at his target list of schools (as PABASEBALL recommends above), cut your losses with PG showcases, and do targeted showcases.  Those coaches won't care a lick about his 7 on PG. 

As far as going as a PO?   I think going to the showcase or not as a PO isn't the question at this point.  I think the question is, should he be a PO full time, or not?  Then do what he is at the PG event.  But if he is still playing both ways and training as a two-way player year round (travel and school) ?  Then what's there to be afraid of?  Must be a two way player for a reason.  Showcase it.  

But if you're worried his fielding and hitting is pulling his pitching grade down at a PG showcase, then it must also be doing it at other tournaments and outings (school and travel) ?  Hope I'm making sense here.  

As far as hypothetically attending another PG event where he throws well at 85, 86?  As a PO?   Yes, you will see a jump on that grade.  By at least a full point or even 1.5.  As far as running the 60 as a PO?  Unless he is a sub 7.0 I wouldn't worry about the 60, and not run it.  But if he's 86 from the mound and can run a 6.9 or lower, it can only help by demonstrating athleticism and upside for more potential.  If he goes as a 2-way guy he will have to run it.  Anything above a 7.2 will not help and begin to be a big negative. 

But really, don't worry about the PG grade.  My son had a low grade and I NEVER felt it hurt him.  Hard to believe, I know.  But I swear it didn't.  DIDN'T HELP HIM EITHER!!  But didn't hurt him......that I am aware of.  Not one coach ever mentioned it throughout his recruitment.  

Hope this helps. 

I referenced the PG Academic showcase as a possible venue for your son to head back and try to raise score, my reasoning was mostly due to the June date, not sure if the Academic nature of the venue is a good fit, but that's your call.  I just think if he wants to take another hack at it June is a much better time to do it as opposed to off season.  

Bottom line is make your list of schools and find how to access those coaches.   Someone already said a late spring 2-minuted bullpen video with a radar gun in frame with 85-86 will also do the trick.  

Increase in velocity will result in a higher grade. However, without knowing and seeing the player, it is difficult to make any recommendation.  There is a huge supply of low to mid 80s HS pitchers.  There can be a big difference between pitchers that throw in that range, both in present and future projection. Your son has size, and that can help. 

We have seen mid 80s pitchers that we think will end up very successful at nearly any college program.  We also see some that have very little chance for success at the high school level.  What we see, is what the recruiters and scouts see.  People that make their living recruiting baseball talent would almost always agree with what we think. After all, we have been doing this for 23 years and see more players than anyone in baseball.  That doesn't mean that someone we grade a 9 or better will be recruited by every top DI college.  There is always need involved in their decisions.  However, in almost every case, those college coaches would agree that that player can play at that level.

Here is another thing to think about when it comes to recruiting.  There are always more players capable of playing at every level of baseball than their are spots available for them at that level. There are DIII players that are better than most DI players. There are many players that develop into early draft prospects during college. 

It is hard to discuss some of this without some thinking it is just a sales pitch to attend PG events.  But whether it is PG or something else, the most important thing a player can do is to be identified by a reliable source.  In other words create interest!  Once that is accomplished the recruiters do their job.  Once again, it doesn't have to be PG, it can be just one recruiter that sees a player and wants that player.  But the more colleges that have interest, the better it is.

The one thing that I think most everyone would agree with... Try to get on a Travel team that plays in the most heavily scouted events against the best possible competition.  If your goal is to create interest, never go to an individual showcase event of any kind unless you are physically ready and prepared to show your best.

Sounds like you need to follow the advice of the people who posted: 

1) draft your list of target schools

2) determine where they are going to be at in order to make sure you are there as well

3) Hit their camps. 

The PG grade is not going to get you a roster spot by itself. I  not met a college coach yet who trusts PG enough to hand out a scholarship or roster spot without laying eyes on the player at least once in person.

You can get to anywhere from 2-4 college camps at the schools you want to get to for the cost of 1 PG showcase. Do the math.

As has been already mentioned, The goal is college baseball not a PG score. I would focus on individual school camps. Get on campus and in front of coaches at schools he wants to play for. Schools that match his skill set from a recruiting standpoint .

He's a big kid. And that will play well....Every pitching coach that sees a big RHP thinks there is more gas in the arm. That being said. You mentioned the possibility of a 3-4 MPH jump. That is unrealistic. The velo may never come. Or it might at some point. But remember a 3  mph jump is HUGE. Have him focus on getting outs . Spin it, Cut it.

Recruiting is about finding the right fit for the player and the program. Try to get him in front of schools where his skill set plays now.

 

My 2018 still doesn't have a PG score. I think we found a video of him pitching that I shot on my iphone, linked to a web site with key stats and references from coaches and teachers, that he emailed to every school he was interested in, was enough to start a conversation with those who were interested. The showcases he did were more of an opportunity for coaches who had already seen his video to see him in person.

Nuke83 posted:

You're putting too many eggs in the PG info.

First, has your son compiled a list of target 4 yr schools?  If so, has he contacted them and begun to work on getting them to see him?

My reason for asking is that you may find it far more cost effective and efficient to get to those schools camps and let their EYES get directly on your son rather than simply shotgun for good metrics on PG website and then hope that interest will roll in.

If he doesn't have a target of 4 year schools, then you really need to spend some time formulating your strategy and approach, then make a plan to execute.

Nothing beats the eyeball test and your best bet is to try and get in front of the eyeballs your son has an interest in.  Even with above average PG metrics, teams are still going to want to see your son.

If his target is simply any P5 school, then definitely keep going the PG showcase route and hope to make a splash at a national level.

Targeting specific schools can be helpful, and if you are talking D2 and D3 they may not even be looking at PG scores.

Some school camps are small, some are HUGE.  My son attended a low level D1 camp in October and I was shocked that there were less than 30 kids there!  That coach took that list of under 30 and paired it down to a list of less than 15 and just sent out an additional camp invite for January.  Could he have a thousand of these less than 15 kid emails, YUP! But he's happy to go back to the campus and speak with the coach again.

My son never had a score. We never attended a single showcase for an evaluation. Plenty of kids i know had good scores and arent playing ball today and other are the opposite. Do all of the other work that is required and be diligent, willing to listen and be practical. 

StrainedOblique posted:

 

He's a big kid. And that will play well....Every pitching coach that sees a big RHP thinks there is more gas in the arm. That being said. You mentioned the possibility of a 3-4 MPH jump. That is unrealistic. The velo may never come. Or it might at some point. But remember a 3  mph jump is HUGE. Have him focus on getting outs . Spin it, Cut it.

 

His OP said that his son had already been 85-86.....just happened to top out at 82 the day of the showcase....so the 3 mph jump he mentioned is already there.  I don't think a 6'3, 210 lb kid throwing 85 is going to have any issues with finding a place to play if he gets out and is seen by the right people.  Pitching coaches are funny....my son was 5'9  and weighed 150 the summer after his junior year.  He was 86-87 and was hardly able to get coaches to stay around and watch him throw (he usually followed a 6'5 lefty throwing 91-92 that entire summer).  Fortunately it worked out....but if he had been 6'2, 200 throwing 86-87 he would have had ALOT more attention

Add Reply

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×