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My 2017 son, a catcher, made tremendous strides in his hitting by working with a local fellow (and HS hitting guru) for whom I have tremendous respect.For about 18 months pretty regularly. That was until Fall 2017 when a hitch in his swing got him to roll-over to the right side a LOT (say half the time) and then pop-up to the left (1/4th of the time), leaving hard grounders that find a gap and the occasional line drive or deep fly. Went from batting almost 0.500 (slugging 0.700 and OPS >1.0) to 0.100 in one season with no power. Obviously, this became very mental.

 

Of course, he worked with his instructor who mostly figured out his hands were too high and drifted away from his body and then back to his body (so kind of an arc/slice). Tried to fix it with drills but nothing worked/"stuck" and it got worse and more mental.

 

In the meantime, he's going to focus on arm conditioning and catcher-related conditioning. I have tremendous respect for hsi coach but I fear we are at an impasse that might require a new perspective in terms of instructor and perhaps technology.

 

Anyone been through this sort of thing? Another option is stepping back to tee work with same instructor and rebuild the swing and the relationship. But this would be hard to do in the winter and he has no facility per se. Advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[EDITED TO REMOVE EXCESSIVE DETAIL]

Last edited by Batty67
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Originally Posted by Batty67:

My 2017 son, a catcher, made tremendous strides in his hitting by working with a local out-of-work fellow (and HS hitting guru) for whom I have tremendous respect.

 

Is his Head Coach @ HS and HS hitting guru one in the same?  If not, I would start out with HC or top assistant and ask for their help first.  There are so many professional instructors around, you could be chasing a cure for a long time.

Originally Posted by CatsPop:
Originally Posted by Batty67:

My 2017 son, a catcher, made tremendous strides in his hitting by working with a local out-of-work fellow (and HS hitting guru) for whom I have tremendous respect.

 

Is his Head Coach @ HS and HS hitting guru one in the same?  If not, I would start out with HC or top assistant and ask for their help first.  There are so many professional instructors around, you could be chasing a cure for a long time.

Nope. Totally different. As for our HS coach. We go to a pretty middle-of-the road HS in terms of success and coaching (and I'm being nice), so I don't think that option will work for him.

Frankly, I am not sure what you gain by switching to a new instructor.  Could be better, could be worse.  A long season tends to tire the player out and bad things can creep in.  IMO, go back and start from ground zero.  Go over all the fundamentals.  Do a lot of tee work and front toss.  Focus on barrel control.  Sounds like you'll need to find a facility to rent a tunnel during the winter.  You should see some improvement and confidence in a few weeks.  If not, then consider making a switch.  Good luck.   

Originally Posted by Everyday Dad:

Agree with Golfman plus take your own video. 

Get the video app Coaches Eye.

Review them yourself and have others look at it and see what they see

I have to disagree. Batty (with all due respect) is a little too involved already.  The kid's a sophomore; he needs to take charge of his own career. If his dad is willing to pay for instruction, great.  Let the kid take initial lessons with a few guys and see who he connects with. But yes, any reputable instructor should have access to an indoor facility.

Been in a similar situation. In my son's case the most important thing was a change of scene to rebuild confidence. He was trying too hard to please his coaches, worrying about failure and it got to his head. Being in an "easier" summer league/team may be a blessing if he starts hitting well again. Were coaches giving conflicting hitting advice vs his hitting coach?

Thanks for all the input so far. I meant back to tee work exactly per Golfman25. Not pejoratively. Taking a month off for starters to refresh. Weighing options for connecting with current or new instructor. Well JCG, since I'm his Dad and he cannot pay nor drive to lessons just yet but wants to improve and is willing to work hard to make this happen...I feel I'm involved at the appropriate level.

Sorry, Batty.  When you ask a bunch of strangers on the internet for advice some of that advice will surely be crap. That said, I read a lot of "I" in your OP.  This in particular: "I'm shutting him down for a month or so..." -- sounds like a heavily invested dad micromanaging his kid's baseball career at an age when the kid should be taking responsibility for his own choices and training.   But that's just MHO so please feel free to disregard, and best of luck to both you and your son.

Originally Posted by JCG:

Sorry, Batty.  When you ask a bunch of strangers on the internet for advice some of that advice will surely be crap. That said, I read a lot of "I" in your OP.  This in particular: "I'm shutting him down for a month or so..." -- sounds like a heavily invested dad micromanaging his kid's baseball career at an age when the kid should be taking responsibility for his own choices and training.   But that's just MHO so please feel free to disregard, and best of luck to both you and your son.

Fair enough JCG. Probably some truth to it in terms of my investment. He's a very responsible kid and he works hard on his academics and baseball. I try to support him, naturally. For me this is a tough issue and one for which I am seeking the general (since this cannot be specific) advice of the HSBW.

Originally Posted by JCG:

Sorry, Batty.  When you ask a bunch of strangers on the internet for advice some of that advice will surely be crap. That said, I read a lot of "I" in your OP.  This in particular: "I'm shutting him down for a month or so..." -- sounds like a heavily invested dad micromanaging his kid's baseball career at an age when the kid should be taking responsibility for his own choices and training.   But that's just MHO so please feel free to disregard, and best of luck to both you and your son.

Disagree, the kids a So in HS not college. He probably doesn't drive yet, so dad needs to be involved. We r not talking about taking to coach here. Same as parent worrying about kid academically and wondering if they should change tutors. 

Imo tee work should never stop. Son needs to get pop up net in basement/garage and hit all the time, practicing what HC taught him. If he's been successful with HC so far, I would not change just yet. Work on basics over winter and see how it goes. son is still young.  They fall back into bad habits. Just because he was doing well doesn't mean he won't have slump, happens to everyone. 

Glad you brought up mental part of hitting. Normal for them to get down on themselves. I would recommend book-The Mental Game of Baseball, by H.A. Dorfman. A good read.

good luck

Whenever a hitter goes through the process of learning to hit with me, I do my best to instill in them the concept of a "fall back swing."  I got the idea from Scott Sarginson.  During the process, the hitter and the coach need to create a dialogue.  For my child, she knows what is "basic" for her to fall back to.  For her, it includes no stride, bat on her shoulder w/elbow parallel to the ground, a load of he core by bringing her front knee back toward her back knee and ...  So, whenever she feels like she is getting out of sync or struggling, she goes to this basic setup and does swings off of a tee.  Then, she does some front toss work in the same manner.  From there, she adds other elements back into the swing like lifting her bat off of her shoulder and tipping and ripping.  She adds back a stride.  In short, physician, heal thyself.  Most of the time if a hitter has had success, the problem becomes more mental than physical.  In this way, they work their way through the swing. 

Originally Posted by Batty67:

My 2017 son, a catcher, made tremendous strides in his hitting by working with a local fellow (and HS hitting guru) for whom I have tremendous respect.For about 18 months pretty regularly. That was until Fall 2017 when a hitch in his swing got him to roll-over to the right side a LOT (say half the time) and then pop-up to the left (1/4th of the time), leaving hard grounders that find a gap and the occasional line drive or deep fly. Went from batting almost 0.500 (slugging 0.700 and OPS >1.0) to 0.100 in one season with no power. Obviously, this became very mental.

 

Of course, he worked with his instructor who mostly figured out his hands were too high and drifted away from his body and then back to his body (so kind of an arc/slice). Tried to fix it with drills but nothing worked/"stuck" and it got worse and more mental.

 

In the meantime, he's going to focus on arm conditioning and catcher-related conditioning. I have tremendous respect for hsi coach but I fear we are at an impasse that might require a new perspective in terms of instructor and perhaps technology.

 

Anyone been through this sort of thing? Another option is stepping back to tee work with same instructor and rebuild the swing and the relationship. But this would be hard to do in the winter and he has no facility per se. Advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[EDITED TO REMOVE EXCESSIVE DETAIL]

 I am a catching instructor. I played 7 years professionally, and train all over DFW. When I was growing up, I had multiple instructors. Its a benefit, but the player has to realize that he will have multiple coaches should he continue to play. Thus, a player must learn to take away something from each coach. 

 

The game of baseball is primarily democratic. This is important because the race to advertising and media coverage portray baseball as singular.i.e. "monster homeruns" and "100mph" fastballs. This is a huge part of the game, I am not denying that. However, baseball games are won by 9 players working together for a common good. Yes, Yes, that sounds beautiful right? Well, the problem is that in our capitalist society, we glorify the one player who hits the home run or throws the 100mph fastball, and it will always be this way. And so, our mindset is to strive to hit the ball further and throw it faster. A player needs this mentality to progress to the next level. There lies the paradox. 

 

So, coaching dynamics are different in baseball (its the only sport where you do not have the ball on offense). As coaches, we must push players to achieve their best but also remind them about the necessity of democracy in the game. We had a great conversation with Alex Rodriguez on hitting. I posted it to my facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/abeitasports 

 

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Originally Posted by Batty67:

My 2017 son, a catcher, made tremendous strides in his hitting by working with a local fellow (and HS hitting guru) for whom I have tremendous respect.For about 18 months pretty regularly. That was until Fall 2017 when a hitch in his swing got him to roll-over to the right side a LOT (say half the time) and then pop-up to the left (1/4th of the time), leaving hard grounders that find a gap and the occasional line drive or deep fly. Went from batting almost 0.500 (slugging 0.700 and OPS >1.0) to 0.100 in one season with no power. Obviously, this became very mental.

 

Of course, he worked with his instructor who mostly figured out his hands were too high and drifted away from his body and then back to his body (so kind of an arc/slice). Tried to fix it with drills but nothing worked/"stuck" and it got worse and more mental.

 

In the meantime, he's going to focus on arm conditioning and catcher-related conditioning. I have tremendous respect for hsi coach but I fear we are at an impasse that might require a new perspective in terms of instructor and perhaps technology.

 

Anyone been through this sort of thing? Another option is stepping back to tee work with same instructor and rebuild the swing and the relationship. But this would be hard to do in the winter and he has no facility per se. Advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[EDITED TO REMOVE EXCESSIVE DETAIL]

  • Does he maintain an athletic posture? (Knees slightly bent; same as in golf, same as in tennis)
  • (2) Does he shift his weight from back to front?
  • (3) Does he lead with his back hip, shoulders follow and pass the hips, hands last to commit.
  • (4) On contact, do palms face the sky and the ground and wrists are locked? 

All the good hitters (Mantle, Mays, Musial, Aaron,) had these traits.

STANCE: too many differences to be considered important, Mays (wide), Ted Williams (narrow), Mantle (neutral), Musial (crouched) ; all great hitters but diff stances (As you can tell, I’m old-school)

FEET: My pref. slightly more that shoulder width (my neutral)

ARMS & ELBOWS: My pref. is neutral [  ^  ] <=== my concept of neutral, as opposed to back elbow up.

HANDS: My pref. Up near the back shoulder

STRIDE: No pref.

SWING: This is my advice to anyone learning how to swing. Get an old wood bat, go out and hit a tree. If you don't have a tree, hit a heavy bag. If you don't have one of those, hit a truck tire. My point is this: you will learn the grip, you will find the sweet spot, you will come to know the feel, it’s great for muscle memory and this may be the most controversial of all advice but (In my mind) the act of hitting a baseball is the same as that of a lumber jack felling a tree. This is a lot different that concentrating on hitting “thru” the ball. (and I DON’T mean chopping down. I’m referring to the torque, the wrist snap and the locked wrists. 

Last edited by CoachJackE

Too many times over the years have I seen cases of too much physical instruction.  While the actual instruction might be outstanding, the problem isn't always physical.  In fact, most of the time it is mental.  When a hitter has learned how to hit by a knowledgable instructor and has had success, and then all of a sudden he quits hitting, it's not very often technique, it's usually his mentality.

 

At one time or another we have all experienced this negative mentality.  We tinker with the swing, we change bats, we use a different helmet, or even eat something different before the games.  Sooner or later, provided you know how to hit, you will hit.  Too much of the other stuff just gets in the way and clutters your mind.  The more clutter, the bigger the problem becomes.

 

Now obviously if there are major mechanical flaws that is a different story.  Maybe there is even a small adjustment that needs to be made.  So a good hitting instructor can be very valuable.  But one thing to always keep in mind, is the mind!  It is the most powerful thing any hitter has ever owned. Also keep in mind there is natural ability involved in all baseball skills.  Because of that, I've always been against the cookie cutter approach.

Originally Posted by CoachJackE:
Originally Posted by Batty67:

My 2017 son, a catcher, made tremendous strides in his hitting by working with a local fellow (and HS hitting guru) for whom I have tremendous respect.For about 18 months pretty regularly. That was until Fall 2017 when a hitch in his swing got him to roll-over to the right side a LOT (say half the time) and then pop-up to the left (1/4th of the time), leaving hard grounders that find a gap and the occasional line drive or deep fly. Went from batting almost 0.500 (slugging 0.700 and OPS >1.0) to 0.100 in one season with no power. Obviously, this became very mental.

 

Of course, he worked with his instructor who mostly figured out his hands were too high and drifted away from his body and then back to his body (so kind of an arc/slice). Tried to fix it with drills but nothing worked/"stuck" and it got worse and more mental.

 

In the meantime, he's going to focus on arm conditioning and catcher-related conditioning. I have tremendous respect for hsi coach but I fear we are at an impasse that might require a new perspective in terms of instructor and perhaps technology.

 

Anyone been through this sort of thing? Another option is stepping back to tee work with same instructor and rebuild the swing and the relationship. But this would be hard to do in the winter and he has no facility per se. Advice appreciated. Thanks.

 

[EDITED TO REMOVE EXCESSIVE DETAIL]

  • Does he maintain an athletic posture? (Knees slightly bent; same as in golf, same as in tennis)
  • (2) Does he shift his weight from back to front?
  • (3) Does he lead with his back hip, shoulders follow and pass the hips, hands last to commit.
  • (4) On contact, do palms face the sky and the ground and wrists are locked? 

All the good hitters (Mantle, Mays, Musial, Aaron,) had these traits.

STANCE: too many differences to be considered important, Mays (wide), Ted Williams (narrow), Mantle (neutral), Musial (crouched) ; all great hitters but diff stances (As you can tell, I’m old-school)

FEET: My pref. slightly more that shoulder width (my neutral)

ARMS & ELBOWS: My pref. is neutral [  ^  ] <=== my concept of neutral, as opposed to back elbow up.

HANDS: My pref. Up near the back shoulder

STRIDE: No pref.

SWING: This is my advice to anyone learning how to swing. Get an old wood bat, go out and hit a tree. If you don't have a tree, hit a heavy bag. If you don't have one of those, hit a truck tire. My point is this: you will learn the grip, you will find the sweet spot, you will come to know the feel, it’s great for muscle memory and this may be the most controversial of all advice but (In my mind) the act of hitting a baseball is the same as that of a lumber jack felling a tree. This is a lot different that concentrating on hitting “thru” the ball. (and I DON’T mean chopping down. I’m referring to the torque, the wrist snap and the locked wrists. 

The skill that has to come natural is timing and the actual hitting of the ball. Neither can be taught. 

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