NFHS Helmet Removal On Base -- Ejection is an Out?

67L48 posted:

I'm watching a game before my own, so I have no rooting interest.

B2 advances to 3B on a single.  As he rounds 3rd, he inexplicably removes his helmet.  Holding his helmet in his left hand, he dances back and forth, about 5 feet down the 3rd base line ... trying to induce a throw from F1, who has received the ball.  This is the exact reason why the rules are in place, as this is dangerous ... particularly because the defensive team was so bad that a throw would have had a high probability of hitting the baserunner in the head.

Umpire doesn't stop play.  But, when the action settles down (still live), umpire instructs the kid to put on the helmet.  Not sure if this is an official warning per NFHS, but let's assume it is.

On the next pitch, the B3 is again taking his lead with his helmet in his left hand.  I've really never seen anything like it ... the kid really liked holding his helmet.The umpires allowed it, though, without addressing it further. 

My question is about the hypothetical.  What if they had not allowed it?  Everything I can find online only addresses the written rule and cases where the offending player is not actively on base.  People correctly point out that it's not an out in FED to remove the helmet.  It's a warning and then an ejection.  People are fairly adamant about it NOT BEING AN OUT.

OK, understood, but what if the ejected player happens to still be on base?  Is that also an out?  Or, would the offending team simply replace the ejected player with a substitute who would also replace the ejected player on base (no out)?

I suppose there are other times a live baserunner could get ejected.  Maybe jawing at a field umpire or an opposing defensive player to the point of getting tossed.  Same situation, perhaps.  Does the offensive team replace the ejected player on base with the same player who eventually replaces him in the lineup, or is it an out in addition to the ejection?

Thanks.

The only time an ejection also carries an out is for offensive malicious contact.

Thanks, Matt.  I've never seen or coached in a game where an active baserunner has been ejected. It was just driving me nuts the past week.

I'm sure the parents would go nuts if a kid were thrown out of a game and the coach started trotting out a pinch runner in his place.  I can hear them now yelling, "You can't do that!!  He's OUT!!"  :-)

67L48 posted:

Thanks, Matt.  I've never seen or coached in a game where an active baserunner has been ejected. It was just driving me nuts the past week.

I'm sure the parents would go nuts if a kid were thrown out of a game and the coach started trotting out a pinch runner in his place.  I can hear them now yelling, "You can't do that!!  He's OUT!!"  :-)

Sigh...

Had a loudmouth that still somehow pierced the sizable crowd noise last week...visiting LHP would throw over before coming set. "HE'S GOTTA PAUSE!!!" Every single time...

A little twist - 

Watching an NCAA softball regional last week.  Batter thinks she has grounded out, but the throw actually went to another base.  She touched the bag then peeled off to go to the dugout and took off her helmet in the process. First base coach notices after the player took maybe 2-3 steps, and yells for her to get back on the bag.  Defense throws over (not sure why, she never tried to actually advance), but she gets back on the bag safely.

Umpire makes a motion showing the batter took the helmet off and calls her out. Coaches come out, umpires confer - call stands.  NCAA rules for softball specify this is an out (3.7.1), however I couldn't find this as an out in the baseball rules.  Unless I missed it, I'm not sure why this inconsistency exists?

It could be implying that men are so hard headed that removing the helmet doesn't really increase the chance of injury...

Matt,

I lost this argument with two different parents this past spring. Both were parents of talented varsity pitchers. We were just casually discussing pitching and not reacting to an actual play (in both cases). Somehow landed on the concept of pick off moves. Both were adamant that pitcher had to come to set (discernible pause/stop) before pickoff move. I didn't go to the mat over it and just let it go.

Rob,

Lots of differences between softball and baseball. I'm not sure there's any desire to harmonize. Rules that govern things like helmet infractions would be different in the same way that base path length, pitching motion, and bat shape/size are also different.  In fact, I think softball likes to have differences for the sake of having differences as a means to carve out an identity.

For example, softball doesn't have a DH, designated hitter. They have a DP, designated player. Does the DP do anything but hit? No. Though DH is a much more descriptive term for what that player is doing, DP creates an identity based on being different (even if it's stupid).  For the record, I LOVE the WCWS.  Drives my wife nuts.

Had a routine doubleplay where the SS fielded the ball stepped on second and threw on to first well in time for a very easy DP.

A woman in the crowd started yelling...."he never tagged him at second!"..."he never tagged him at second"........

she kept it up for 2 full innings.....every time I called an out, she said "he may be out, but he still never tagged him at second!!"......

Finally his teams 1st base coach had enough and told her " shut up sue! its was force play not a tag play!"...........her answer??.......

"But he never tagged him at second !!"...............  

You can't make this stuff up!!!!