Offers Contingent on Better SAT/ACT Score?

For a 2019, I'd say if he's hoping to up his score he had better take the test as early as he can  this spring.  Most 2019's being offered by D1's are going to happen this summer I'm not sure if coaches will be willing to wait until fall to hear if the score came up enough to meet their standards.  There are plenty  of kids available to D1's....unless they REALLY want  a kid I'm thinking that instead of waiting, they'll just move on to the next kid

So I sat behind (unintentionally) 3 RCs at a well known event a few summers ago.  It was a learning festival for me!  One was texting his GF or some other women, but that is a different story.

I could hear their conversations and often see their phones.  One kept looking up players on PG for example.  All were D1 schools, none of which my son had an interest in attending.  They were from VA and NC.  None would be considered "high academic."

One asked another about a certain player.  RC1 said something like "I told him he needs to retake the ACT and get at least a 21."  I remember thinking REALLY?  That just was not in my orbit, as my 2017 was sitting on his nearly perfect scores.  The other coach asked how many times he had taken it.  RC1 said twice, but he will take it as many times as it takes if he wants t come to X.

I'm not great with the search function  but the gyst of a post a few yrs ago was that someone was offered a scholarship to ND contingent on a getting  29 or 30 on the ACT,    he also could go to Georgia and needed a 24-25  and Miss St needed him to get a 19.      So it does sound like the younger kids might get contingent offers.  

gunner34 posted:

I'm not great with the search function  but the gyst of a post a few yrs ago was that someone was offered a scholarship to ND contingent on a getting  29 or 30 on the ACT,    he also could go to Georgia and needed a 24-25  and Miss St needed him to get a 19.      So it does sound like the younger kids might get contingent offers.  

Gunner, we have close family friends with a daughter going to ND on a scholarship for her sport. She absolutely needed to hit an ACT score -- IIRC, it was 26.

I have heard that 26 is also required for Duke baseball, but don't have first-hand knowledge of that.

2019Dad posted:

gunner34 posted:

I'm not great with the search function  but the gyst of a post a few yrs ago was that someone was offered a scholarship to ND contingent on a getting  29 or 30 on the ACT,    he also could go to Georgia and needed a 24-25  and Miss St needed him to get a 19.      So it does sound like the younger kids might get contingent offers.  

Gunner, we have close family friends with a daughter going to ND on a scholarship for her sport. She absolutely needed to hit an ACT score -- IIRC, it was 26.

I have heard that 26 is also required for Duke baseball, but don't have first-hand knowledge of that.

Confirming Duke - 26 is a must per HC Pollard.  

I've heard ND more flexible with baseball than what was mentioned about softball.  Two yrs ago a commit needed to hit a 24, couldn't, decommitted, went to ASU (kid was a top national recruit)

Bar may be set higher for the girls given the abundance of smart girl student-athletes. ??And ND-Duke football ACT requirements are much lower as well (but high revenue sport).

I wonder if its a sliding scale depending on the ability of the recruit,  nat'l stud 24,   prospect we like who could be somebody down the road 29. 

In another sport, I know of a kid who was recruited and committed to one of the top programs in the country.  His dream school.  He needed to take the ACT 6 times in order to get a grade acceptable to the school for admissions.  They let him in on probation and he needed to take some "starter" courses during the summer.  He did not make it through the summer and never played for the team.

Kid had talent and unfortunately other then the olympics there is not really a professional version of his sport.  He did drop down to a JUCO for two years but is now out of school. No degree.

Be careful with the academics.  The low ACT/SAT score maybe an indicator that he is not a fit for that school.

gunner34 posted:

I wonder if its a sliding scale depending on the ability of the recruit,  nat'l stud 24,   prospect we like who could be somebody down the road 29. 

Without a doubt...

what ACT score is needed for an IVY? what about Stanford?  How close is a 28?  Im assuming ivy's and stanford want a 30 minimum?

edcoach posted:

what ACT score is needed for an IVY? what about Stanford?  How close is a 28?  Im assuming ivy's and stanford want a 30 minimum?

way more to it then an ACT score for an IVY.  They look at a lot of different factors.  Academic rigor, grade trends, ACT scores, interviews, outside class activities.  

If you school has naviance take a look at the ivys and see what is getting in.  The standards for athletes are not much lower.

Add Stanford to the list as well.  They used to not make any commitment until the player already had a high enough ACT/SAT score but apparently having lost out on a number of recruits, they modified the practice to make offers but contingent on meeting their minimum score thresholds.  Sure they may still lose out to other schools who do not have similar contingencies, but they need to be sure the athletes they recruit can cut it with a student body of exceptionally bright students.

There have been other threads here that note how it is now all about ACT/SAT scores for the academic schools.  Right or not, GPA inflation has occurred at many schools in response to the ever increasing GPA requirements at many colleges and universities.  The University of California system is insane with most schools in the system now reporting average GPAs for incoming freshman over 4.0.  So many of the coaches and admissions officers at academic schools have wised up and are emphasizing the ACT and SAT as the driver for accepting recruits.  The demands on student athletes are well-documented.  The worse thing they can do is bring in recruits who cannot cut it academically and then both the student and school lose out.  The ACT/SAT tests have their critics, but they give a more clear indication of what a student's potential for success is than a possibly inflated GPA does.

thanks Joes87...the Ivies love his high school...I knew their admission process was rigorous just didnt know if there was a certain ACT # (minimum) required before they'd even look or consider a candidate.

edcoach posted:

thanks Joes87...the Ivies love his high school...I knew their admission process was rigorous just didnt know if there was a certain ACT # (minimum) required before they'd even look or consider a candidate.

It depends. The coaches have to hit a target for each recruiting class as a whole, so more academic recruits can balance out lower ones (though there is a floor). The net result is that each recruit may be -- and probably is -- given a different target. I have heard from parents that their particular kid was told he needed to get a 30 at one school. I know a kid who was told at the same school that he needed "a 28, but we might be able to get by with a 27." And a kid who was told at a different school that he needed a 26 or higher.

For Harvard-Princeton-Yale, the realistic floor might be 30. For the other 5, probably not too many below 28. But it depends on a lot of factors, (e.g., the coaches' view of his baseball ability, the academic ability of the other recruits that year, etc.).

This is not uncommon even without sports in the mix. 

Many many years ago I applied to a college and was accepted.  It wasn't a fancy college, just a state school, I think they were D2, population of about 5K.  So again, nothing special.  SEVERAL of my classmates also applied there and were given conditional acceptances based on an increased SAT score and or senior year grades meeting a certain GPA.

Schools have standards, even without sports.  Meet the standards or you can't get in.

Son got offer from Miss State before he took ACT was told he could have more money if he scored a certain number on the ACT. I think it was 26. Offer was not contingent on ACT/SAT.

Ryan had an offer that was contingent upon at least a 25, where normal requirement was 29 or higher.  ACT Score can be extremely important.

2019 dad -- just to clarify, the academic index is the same for all the Ivies.  The schools have an umbrella index they agree to adhere to -- that's the whole point, that they have a certain "standard" and won't lower that so called standard (too much) for athletes within the League.  After all, the Ivies are just a league of schools that compete against each other.  There are numerous non athletic recruits at Ivies and top schools now who are the first in their family to go to college for example, and some (not all!) may also have lower scores but are offered admission because of other accomplishments, including the adversity they may have in their lives which may not have prepared them for a higher score.   We know a girl accepted to one of the top D3 Liberal Arts Colleges in the US with a 25 ACT, but first in her family to go to college, and compelling family issues.

So don't think that somehow HPY have a higher floor.  I think it was Yale who had a 27 or 28 recruit last year.  We have seen 26s at Ivies.  Yes more likely to see higher scores, but there are outliers.  The lower scores just mean a lower Academic Index which means the coach has to get someone higher to help balance it out.  There is a team index that fits into the overall college index.  Teams like football and hockey have a lower index than say crew or tennis.   Tucker Frawley the Yale RC says very publicly that Yale baseball has a 31 average.  That means one kid could have a 35 and another a 27.  

Sometimes it also depends where they are in their recruiting class.  Coach knows he has 7 slots for example and hypothetically needs a 31 average -- lets say he already has 5 slots filled with a 30 average, he is going to be looking for kids that bring that average up, not down for the most part.  

This doesn't mean a kid with a 26-29 ACT score or SAT equivalent will get a coveted Ivy slot, but with the right athletic skills, it has happened.    

Just saying...

joes87 posted:

edcoach posted:

what ACT score is needed for an IVY? what about Stanford?  How close is a 28?  Im assuming ivy's and stanford want a 30 minimum?

way more to it then an ACT score for an IVY.  They look at a lot of different factors.  Academic rigor, grade trends, ACT scores, interviews, outside class activities.  

If you school has naviance take a look at the ivys and see what is getting in.  The standards for athletes are not much lower.

I would add that some schools take into account where a kid is from, and what their financial situation is.  For instance, Ryan received an offer of $51,000 out of $57,000 all based on us being from Idaho (They had never had a baseball kid from Idaho.), and our financial situation.  We wouldn't even have considered the school without the substantial financial offer.  None of the $51,000 was for Athletics.

Son was told by an AC recruiting him from one of the more strict Ivies (HPY) that they "look for 1300 minimum" on new SAT.  Another AC at an Ivy outside of the HPY pond didn't blink when learning of a score in the upper 1200s - said that score should be good enough. Both were recruiting him as a RHP.  He ultimately committed to a high academic but non-Ivy D-1 school which recruited him as an outfielder who can maybe pitch. Same SAT score. But ultimately, it depends on many factors. JMO.