PG Fall National Prospect Showcase Invite

So my 2018 uncommitted son got this invitation a while ago and  wants to go. He's a C graded a 8.5 last fall but he's improved dramatically. He has been talking to high Academic D3 schools and I think that's where he'll go. His thinking is that there may be some Ivy or high Academic schools still looking. What's the opinion of the folks on this board? Appreciate the input

 
Gov posted:
2018SSDad posted:

I'll add one more thought. After attending a the PG showcase in June my son got ranked as the #14 SS in the state. After that emailed all the 50 coaches on his list with the subject line  "#14 ranked SS the State." He got a good amount of replies and I think the ranking helped him get the coaches to watch his videos and make contact with him.

The interesting thing is he ended up committing to a school that he never emailed or sent a single video. They saw him play live 2x (one at a PG event) which goes back to my earlier post on the thread. You have to get in front of coaches and play.

Ranked 14 SS in state with what PG grade?  That alone is not enough, and yes, absolutely getting in front of coaches is the best approach.  (Edit: a ranking in the state is not enough, more about the individuals PG grade and this OP's kid has limited time, so whatever will work, if he can pop his grade a bit, it can only help.)

Reminder:  "2018 with a 8.5 already and uncommitted"  who has improved quite a bit.  Options???  It's the middle of Sept of his Senior Yr.

Options:  Several individual college camps are available, several small uncommitted senior showcases are available, then you're going into October with PG Fall Academic, AZ Senior Classic, PG Top Prospect, HF Jupiter and SHB in early November.  Depending on academic strength and targeted colleges it will dictate the route to take.  

I'd also suggest some fresh video highlighting your skills then emailing, then calling the coaches on the targeting list and specifically ask them where you can be seen over the next 60 days.  Little time, need to be tactically aggressive!!

Completely diff approach if younger....he's a senior.

This was the most outstanding response. We are all in on being "Tactically aggressive" .  Checked out PG College commit list . Noted target schools with open slots. Son is emailing & updating those coaches. Hoping to get SAT score north of 1400 and pop in high 1.8's. Late Bloomers quandary, but lesson being learned is to push on....

PGStaff posted:

Sorry but I have to say something.  PG is focused on DI, DII, NAII and JUCO, in other words the places where athletic scholarships exist.  I understand that there is a lot of academic money available, but that is available with or without baseball in many cases.

I doubt if there are many graded 9 or higher that are struggling to get interest.  Possibly it could involve grades or other things when that happens.  It isn't because of ability.

I can say with complete confidence that the higher levels of college baseball, their rosters are dominated by kids that have participated in PG events.  Especially those East of the Rocky Mountains.  In last year's College World Series the championship game had one player on the two rosters that did not attend a PG event.  In fact the Champion Florida roster had attended a total of about 150 PG events.

That said, PG also is very much geared towards the MLB draft.  Over 80% of the entire draft over the past decade has attended PG events.  As of today, and that number grows quickly there are nearly 1,100 players that have attended PG events and have played in the Major Leagues.  This includes the best players in the game.  Harper, Bryant, Posey, Lindor, Correa, Trout, Kershaw, Rizzo, Seager, Kluber, Machado, McCutchen, Votto, Arenado, Donaldson, Bumgarner, I could go on forever. 

Point is, we have a large number of kids that end up at DIII colleges, but our goal is to find the very best players in the country.  Even if they happen to end up at a DIII baseball power.  We have very little interest in just filling enrollments at Weak DIII programs that don't care much about talent and don't develop.  We don't pay college coaches to work PG events, yet we get more of them to attend than anyone. They come to recruit student/athletes, not just students.  They come and spend money to find the best possible players, they're not coming to get a paycheck and fulfill enrollment quotas.  Where there is talent, there is MLB scouts.  These scouts work closely with college baseball at all levels.  The more talent, the more highest level scouts.  It's just the way baseball works.

Then there is the database, which we have by far the largest in all of baseball.  The most information about players available to the entire scouting and recruiting world.  Also by far the most used by those people.  When an event ends, our work is far from done.  Our job is to identify talent and make players visible to decision makers, even if those coaches or scouts didn't attend the event.  We have MLB clubs paying a lot of money to have access to that database. College programs that sort information to narrow down their search.  It is what we do and we have developed a very good reputation over the past 23 years.

We have been contacted by colleges asking if we pay for them to come to showcases.  We really don't want them if that is the main reason to attend.  And we don't want players that can't play. Nothing against those kids, but we can't help them, we can't make them happy they attended.  Luckily, we don't see very many like that.

There is no doubt, that some very talented players have never attended a PG event.  Some that have never attended PG, Area Codes, East Coast Pro, or USABaseball.  All PG events are not the same, some are much higher level than others.  However, we have found future first rounders at some of the less high level events. We have a lot of kids playing in the Ivy League, people can easily check the rosters and see for themselves.  There are lots of kids that have found their way on college rosters without attending PG events.  We are not the only route to take.  We might not even be the best route in some cases.  I really like the HeadFirst model, it really makes sense for many high academic type kids.  I like the Under Amour All American game.  I like the things USABaseball does.  I like Area Codes and East Coast Pro.  I like what PBR does in many areas.  I like a lot of different things that are available to young players.  There are some other events that are very good.  I do have to say that there are many events that aren't worth a damn.

I have often said that I don't participate here to promote PG.  I know it doesn't make much difference what people say about PG on a message board.  It just doesn't seem to make any difference in our growth.  It's just that I want people to know the truth from someone that is involved in all of it, every day of the year.

Sorry, for explaining what so many people already know very well, but just wanted to separate the oranges from the apples. Knowing that some prefer oranges and some prefer apples.

 

All that in response to this post???

My opinion, At the risk of sounding like the resident contrarian on this board (especially as it relates to PG), go to the event if it gets your son IN FRONT OF THE COACHES AT SCHOOLS HE IS TARGETING (especially as an uncomitted 2018). Don't chase a number, get in front of the coaches who need to see your son. There are TONS on guys who are committed D1 to D3 who don't even have a PG grade. Even more who only attended one PG Showcase and graded lower than your son (I personally know several) who are D1 commits).

Conversely, I know kids who have very high (like "9") grades who are struggling with looks.

 

Like I have said many times in the past.  You seem like a great guy that would give your shirt off your back to someone in need.  The reality is you represent the largest business in an industry that generates revenue off of a kids dream.  So many times you back it with meaningless statistics to the prospect that you yourself might believe.  The fact that Florida's roster attended 150 PG events and 1,100 MLB players participates in PG only means that PG is doing a good job at capturing market share.  Is there correlation, sure.  Is there causation, NO.  

For example, I could say that Florida's roster participated in 4,200 HS games.  That blows away PG's 150 events.  There's correlation but no causation.  

The stats are available I am sure but I have asked in the past and never received an answer.  What percentage of PG participants play baseball post High School?  Than further break it down by PG grade.  How many 7 graded players played, etc, etc, etc...  

Like anything there are pros and cons.  It's my opinion the current "showcase" system added many more pros to the industry and many more cons to the average prospects.  Again, the showcase industry has not created a single roster spot.  The showcase industry has create the perceived need for a prospect to spend $1,000's of dollars to compete for that roster spot.  

Spots that were all filled prior to this system.  

 

This is not just a normal public forum.  This is a distinct community of baseball people who, for the most part, are here to help other baseball people along their path.  PGStaff has gone SO FAR above and beyond to be part of that community.  Yes, of course, he has a related business that profits from many of us.  But we here profit a TON from his contributions here.  More important, he has proven time and time again to be the genuine person he claims to be.  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with disagreeing with him and saying so here.  But the lack of respect, the tone and the lack of recognition of his efforts here and lack of recognition of his proven character is extremely disappointing.   

I would sure hope that we can continue to be far more and and much better than just a normal public forum.  But seeing threads turn this way is a big concern.  There was a recent thread about the "old days" here and some back and forth about how it was then, how it is now, etc.  I think there were actually more arguments and disagreements in the past but there was at least some awareness of who was sitting at the dinner table.  JMO

 This is getting REALLY old.  I'm starting to think I'm hanging out at the wrong house.

cabbagedad posted:

This is not just a normal public forum.  This is a distinct community of baseball people who, for the most part, are here to help other baseball people along their path.  PGStaff has gone SO FAR above and beyond to be part of that community.  Yes, of course, he has a related business that profits from many of us.  But we here profit a TON from his contributions here.  More important, he has proven time and time again to be the genuine person he claims to be.  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with disagreeing with him and saying so here.  But the lack of respect, the tone and the lack of recognition of his efforts here and lack of recognition of his proven character is extremely disappointing.   

I would sure hope that we can continue to be far more and and much better than just a normal public forum.  But seeing threads turn this way is a big concern.  There was a recent thread about the "old days" here and some back and forth about how it was then, how it is now, etc.  I think there were actually more arguments and disagreements in the past but there was at least some awareness of who was sitting at the dinner table.  JMO

 This is getting REALLY old.  I'm starting to think I'm hanging out at the wrong house.

Best response to this thread yet...or at least after the thread went south. I have not been a regular of these forums as long as most but have already benefited from PGStaff's willingness to help parents/players navigate the murky waters of college baseball recruiting. At one point, I posted a video or link to video of my son (can't recall which), but PGStaff replied and offered to help. I had no idea who he was but thankfully received a message from another member recommending that I take him up on his offer. Obviously, I did and he provided some great insight. One of his first messages back to me was 7 paragraphs long and there was not one mention of PG or his position with the organization. I actually looked him up after he signed with his name and realized how fortunate I was that he was willing to take the time to, not only respond, but respond in a very detailed and thoughtful manner. I really appreciate these forums and love that you get so many different perspectives from some great people who really understand the power of serving others! Thanks to you ALL!!!!

cabbagedad posted:

This is not just a normal public forum.  This is a distinct community of baseball people who, for the most part, are here to help other baseball people along their path.  PGStaff has gone SO FAR above and beyond to be part of that community.  Yes, of course, he has a related business that profits from many of us.  But we here profit a TON from his contributions here.  More important, he has proven time and time again to be the genuine person he claims to be.  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with disagreeing with him and saying so here.  But the lack of respect, the tone and the lack of recognition of his efforts here and lack of recognition of his proven character is extremely disappointing.   

I would sure hope that we can continue to be far more and and much better than just a normal public forum.  But seeing threads turn this way is a big concern.  There was a recent thread about the "old days" here and some back and forth about how it was then, how it is now, etc.  I think there were actually more arguments and disagreements in the past but there was at least some awareness of who was sitting at the dinner table.  JMO

 This is getting REALLY old.  I'm starting to think I'm hanging out at the wrong house.

I don't understand.  There has only been one poster on this thread that was a "little" over the respect line.  Everything else has been a civil debate.

At times this forum reminds me of the small Mexican village who defends the Mexican Cartel because of all the good the cartel brings to the local community.  Ignoring all the issues it causes. 

PG's response to a very natural post from San Diego Realist stirred this debate.  If you look over the past similar debates, PG stirs the pot much more than most.  Going directly into a highly defensive mode which is typically to attack. 

The house has changed.

Year's ago Julie gave me moderator privilege.  I didn't want it, I have never used it, but I get the private emails when someone has a complaint about a certain poster or post.  We have been donating to the HSBW since Bob Howdeshell was in charge.  This was before any advertising.  Whe Julie took over I told her I didn't want any advertising banner or special privileges.  She insisted because we were donating to the site. 

Over many years I have posted enough to write a couple novels on  this site.  A very small percentage which had anything to do with PG.  I truly enjoyed the site and sometimes we could go for months without even a mention of PG. If anyone wants to research the 10,000+ posts from PGStaff, you will find out for yourself.

Now people have questions and sometimes I feel I should answer.  Over the last year it has become obvious that there are posters that have an agenda.  There are people that want to make me look like a carnival barker.  I'm positive these people don't know me.  Any good businessman, would quickly understand where my heart is and that it has very little to do with sales or business. In fact if someone searches long enough, they will find posts where I have recommended a player go to a different event rather than attend a PG event.  Wow, what a salesman!

I never try to tell people what to do, even when I know what they should do.  23 years at PG, many years before as a college coach/recruiter and a few years as a MLB scout, yet parents know more about the recruiting process? Then I have to read things like HS baseball produces more college and pro players.  Of course they do because everyone plays in HS.  A very very small fraction of those end up at PG events. 

Anyway, because I get these complaints via email, I saw one today that really did hurt.  I think everyone should see this, because if this is the way people feel and as much as I have enjoyed the HSBBW for around 15 years, I need to move on in my life.

Here is what I got to see. I suppose the moderators all got the same thing, but I'm not sure how that works. Guess in some ways I am thin skinned, but I have never once sent moderators a report or complaint.  They would know if they ever saw one.  To me this tattle tale stuff is juvenile, but does have a purpose behind it.  At this point I think I'm going to take a break from here and just allow people to say whatever they wish.  I apologize to the many great people here that I've learned to respect.  And yes, I really do miss so many from the past.  Many that I don't even know what their real name is.

Reported By: SanDiegoRealist

If Pg staff cannot listen to criticism of PG then he needs to leave the board. It's not his board, or is it? I heard he pays the bills for it. He can't come in here as a shill for his company and get butt hurt when people criticize it. If he hs that thin of skin he needs to go away.

I really wish I wouldn't have seen the above complaint.

 

I for one don't want to see you go and as stated many times think you have the right intentions and add value. 

Regarding the HS numbers, I was just making an example of correlation versus causation.  I am sorry but the way you state x number of players at Y level came through Perfect Game is correlation and proves zero causation.  Just rubs me wrong. 

Opportunities in baseball were available long before PG, as one posted, colleges managed to fill their rosters prior to PG. Life tends to plug someone into a vacancy.....none of us go on forever. Life is ever changing and evolving. No, I'm not call an end to PG.....but there's some young kid, somewhere, that's dreaming about how to make a better mouse trap! That, I can guarantee!

Parents created business' such as PG, PBR and the likes, out of anxiety and the will to get their players an edge on the competition. Good, bad or indifferent, they're a very large presence in youth baseball with some areas more, than another (mine, not so much).  I myself would of loved the opportunity to play PG events, but my sons teams simply didn't venture that direction until he switched teams specifically for an opportunity to play WWBA this year......yep, the rain soaked event,  they sat in a hotel for 4 days before playing. His own opportunity to play at LP....1am. Nobody's fault, just the way it is sometimes. Now, if Jerry could run the weather.............imagine how popular he'd be then! 

Travel ball, unfortunately, mirrors purchasing a lottery ticket with expectations of winning the big one....or at least  something to validate a purchase or as some call it, entitlement. Most do eventually come to the realization that life, not baseball happens after high school. For some that's college, for others it could mean work, in which many of those life lessons from baseball could be easily applied.

Just riding the slide! Try to give folks on the journey, in the future, a half full glass! Show em baseball is a game of opportunity, not a game of failure.

PGStaff posted:

The house has changed.

Year's ago Julie gave me moderator privilege.  I didn't want it, I have never used it, but I get the private emails when someone has a complaint about a certain poster or post.  We have been donating to the HSBW since Bob Howdeshell was in charge.  This was before any advertising.  Whe Julie took over I told her I didn't want any advertising banner or special privileges.  She insisted because we were donating to the site. 

Over many years I have posted enough to write a couple novels on  this site.  A very small percentage which had anything to do with PG.  I truly enjoyed the site and sometimes we could go for months without even a mention of PG. If anyone wants to research the 10,000+ posts from PGStaff, you will find out for yourself.

Now people have questions and sometimes I feel I should answer.  Over the last year it has become obvious that there are posters that have an agenda.  There are people that want to make me look like a carnival barker.  I'm positive these people don't know me.  Any good businessman, would quickly understand where my heart is and that it has very little to do with sales or business. In fact if someone searches long enough, they will find posts where I have recommended a player go to a different event rather than attend a PG event.  Wow, what a salesman!

I never try to tell people what to do, even when I know what they should do.  23 years at PG, many years before as a college coach/recruiter and a few years as a MLB scout, yet parents know more about the recruiting process? Then I have to read things like HS baseball produces more college and pro players.  Of course they do because everyone plays in HS.  A very very small fraction of those end up at PG events. 

Anyway, because I get these complaints via email, I saw one today that really did hurt.  I think everyone should see this, because if this is the way people feel and as much as I have enjoyed the HSBBW for around 15 years, I need to move on in my life.

Here is what I got to see. I suppose the moderators all got the same thing, but I'm not sure how that works. Guess in some ways I am thin skinned, but I have never once sent moderators a report or complaint.  They would know if they ever saw one.  To me this tattle tale stuff is juvenile, but does have a purpose behind it.  At this point I think I'm going to take a break from here and just allow people to say whatever they wish.  I apologize to the many great people here that I've learned to respect.  And yes, I really do miss so many from the past.  Many that I don't even know what their real name is.

Reported By: SanDiegoRealist

If Pg staff cannot listen to criticism of PG then he needs to leave the board. It's not his board, or is it? I heard he pays the bills for it. He can't come in here as a shill for his company and get butt hurt when people criticize it. If he hs that thin of skin he needs to go away.

I really wish I wouldn't have seen the above complaint.

 

Apparently you think it's okay to make something public, that was written with the expectation of privacy, in order to gain sympathy from people on this board. I don't think that's okay at all.  I think it is deplorable. 

well I guess we know what kind of moderators we have then, no such thing as any kind of annonymity, all loyalty to PG and the guy who is keeping the lights on. I came on this sight to learn as much about the recruiting process from those who have walked a mile or two in this path ahead of me. What I didnt expect to see was PG on here defending every criticism made about the organization. Am I to blame that he seems to have picked up his ball and left? No, his hubris is to blame. He cannot take criticism of his organization. For all of the posts that he sees on this website about issues with his organization, and I am not alone in these criticisms - just fed up enough that i say something about it - he cannot recognize that these criticisms are widespread public opinion about Perfect Game.

Organizations like PG have monetized what used to be a recreational sport for their profits, they aren't doing it to help Johnny at the local park. The monetization of the recruiting process is perhaps the most grotesque thing I have ever seen, playing upon a child and parents anxiety about their futures. The creation of a ranking system and lists is the genius behind perfect game, people will pay top dollar to climb that ladder - they know it, are banking on it and are taking it to the bank. 

There are things that PG should be commended for. They certainly do get the best players and teams to their events, which in turn draws coach (likes ants to sugar). But the overarching message PG send kids and parents is that a large percentage of college and pro players matriculate thru PG...but only because those players, parents and advisors have fallen prey to the marketing that has sucked the majority of us in, and the symbiotic relationship PG has with club baseball. They need each other to survive, they scratch each other's backs.

So, I will also say that I am tired of the bully pulpit your financial contributions to this website have afforded you. Yours is the only opinion that matters. Its not, there are many people in baseball who aren't playing on the emotions and anxieties of parents and kids to make their livelihoods. 

Hmm...you struck a nerve, Jerry. Let's talk about that beautifully greedy piece of software development that you implemented called diamondkast. Not enough to charge entry fees for teams, gate fees for parents, parking fees at Lakepoint...no, you couldn't stand the fact that GameChanger was making $$$ by having subscribers see the stats for your events! You had to have that piece of the pie too, Jerry, all at the expense of your customers. And if those stats don't support your inflated Scout blog notes about a player who is well connected with a travel team that plays in dozens of your events each year? Poof those stats are gone! I could go on all day, damn you got me fired up.

So you can tell the moderator that sent you that report that I too will be leaving this forum and community, because it is not objective, is basically a Petri dish for PG to sway public opinion about the importance they have in the recruiting process. Oh, last word. Perfect Game does pay the bills here and didn't want anyone to know, got that information from TPM. Hopefully that knowledge will give other members a glimpse into the motivation of your participation here. Wasn't my intention to dine her out, but she is a smart lady and probably knew what's i would do with that nugget of knowledge. 

good day

PGStaff posted:

The house has changed.

Year's ago Julie gave me moderator privilege.  I didn't want it, I have never used it, but I get the private emails when someone has a complaint about a certain poster or post.  We have been donating to the HSBW since Bob Howdeshell was in charge.  This was before any advertising.  Whe Julie took over I told her I didn't want any advertising banner or special privileges.  She insisted because we were donating to the site. 

Over many years I have posted enough to write a couple novels on  this site.  A very small percentage which had anything to do with PG.  I truly enjoyed the site and sometimes we could go for months without even a mention of PG. If anyone wants to research the 10,000+ posts from PGStaff, you will find out for yourself.

Now people have questions and sometimes I feel I should answer.  Over the last year it has become obvious that there are posters that have an agenda.  There are people that want to make me look like a carnival barker.  I'm positive these people don't know me.  Any good businessman, would quickly understand where my heart is and that it has very little to do with sales or business. In fact if someone searches long enough, they will find posts where I have recommended a player go to a different event rather than attend a PG event.  Wow, what a salesman!

I never try to tell people what to do, even when I know what they should do.  23 years at PG, many years before as a college coach/recruiter and a few years as a MLB scout, yet parents know more about the recruiting process? Then I have to read things like HS baseball produces more college and pro players.  Of course they do because everyone plays in HS.  A very very small fraction of those end up at PG events. 

Anyway, because I get these complaints via email, I saw one today that really did hurt.  I think everyone should see this, because if this is the way people feel and as much as I have enjoyed the HSBBW for around 15 years, I need to move on in my life.

Here is what I got to see. I suppose the moderators all got the same thing, but I'm not sure how that works. Guess in some ways I am thin skinned, but I have never once sent moderators a report or complaint.  They would know if they ever saw one.  To me this tattle tale stuff is juvenile, but does have a purpose behind it.  At this point I think I'm going to take a break from here and just allow people to say whatever they wish.  I apologize to the many great people here that I've learned to respect.  And yes, I really do miss so many from the past.  Many that I don't even know what their real name is.

Reported By: SanDiegoRealist

If Pg staff cannot listen to criticism of PG then he needs to leave the board. It's not his board, or is it? I heard he pays the bills for it. He can't come in here as a shill for his company and get butt hurt when people criticize it. If he hs that thin of skin he needs to go away.

I really wish I wouldn't have seen the above complaint.

 

Jerry,

As per our conversation a few weeks ago, there definitely needs to be some changes made.  There does seem to be a group of folks who feel people like you or me, don't belong here. I mean when I get a pm asking me why am I here, it's upsetting.  IMO, it just shows a complete lack of respect. 

IMO, I will say it again, and again, the entire site changed when a group of people decided that inviting every 2020 or 2021 and earlier needed their own private pm.

I received a pm the other day from someone introducing themselves and letting me know who their son was.  I really think that there are a lot more people out there who would love to have that same relationships that we had years ago. They WANT to learn from others.  

Listen don't feel bad, I got the same insults from the same posters, I did get anew apology, but I also found out about a bunch of garbage someone posted about me in a private email.

That's just BS.

Look folks, remember the saying different stokes for different folks?  PG isn't for everyone, college camps, HF isn't for everyone, AC or ECS aren't either. Problem is, that I see is that people are spending too much money TRYING to get their players noticed.  When I see a parent post that they have attended X amount of PG showcases or college camps and not one coach or scout has noticed, I choke.  They don't get it, then they blame the college coach or the organization.

I don't know what to say.  Many people woke up this morning not having a home to go home to, seniors will not graduate from their HS, might not even play HS ball this year and we got folks bickering over 8 or 8.5 rating or which showcase will give them a better opportunity to be seen, just makes me sad. 

Who cares who contributes to this site? How many of you have donated lately? Maybe this should be a site that one needs to pay to belong, or as PG suggests, try to start your own site, see how far you will get (not).

Just to set the record straight, I do believe that coaches do contact PG before their tournaments asking for information about a certain group they want to see. If it's a d2 coach he will ask for profiles that fit D2. So if your son doesn't fit the profile for the tournaments, you need to try another venue. And make sure the team your son is on, isn't just taking your money.

I have known Jerry Ford forever. I don't always agree with PG, or Jerry, but I would never show the disrespect he has often been shown, or for others for that matter.

Enough! Instead of asking why old timers are here, why not just leave if one isn't happy!

JMO

Realist- you forgot to voice your displeasure that companies like Easton and Wilson actually attempt to launch new products and/or improve their products each year and then market them to parents and players - all for a sinister word that was just introduced to America - "profit". The nerve of people/companies to risk investment, manufacture or develop produc or Intellectual Property and distribute their goods and services based on supply and demand. I would go on longer but someone from PG is at my door physically demanding that I pay them immediately or my boys are forbidden to participate in youth sports. They said I have no choice in the matter. Or it might be the Girl Scouts  with those damn tag-alongs. I know they have a secret gov't approved ingredient in them that causes additctions far worse than opiates. 

real green posted:
cabbagedad posted:

This is not just a normal public forum.  This is a distinct community of baseball people who, for the most part, are here to help other baseball people along their path.  PGStaff has gone SO FAR above and beyond to be part of that community.  Yes, of course, he has a related business that profits from many of us.  But we here profit a TON from his contributions here.  More important, he has proven time and time again to be the genuine person he claims to be.  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with disagreeing with him and saying so here.  But the lack of respect, the tone and the lack of recognition of his efforts here and lack of recognition of his proven character is extremely disappointing.   

I would sure hope that we can continue to be far more and and much better than just a normal public forum.  But seeing threads turn this way is a big concern.  There was a recent thread about the "old days" here and some back and forth about how it was then, how it is now, etc.  I think there were actually more arguments and disagreements in the past but there was at least some awareness of who was sitting at the dinner table.  JMO

 This is getting REALLY old.  I'm starting to think I'm hanging out at the wrong house.

I don't understand.  There has only been one poster on this thread that was a "little" over the respect line.  Everything else has been a civil debate.

At times this forum reminds me of the small Mexican village who defends the Mexican Cartel because of all the good the cartel brings to the local community.  Ignoring all the issues it causes. 

PG's response to a very natural post from San Diego Realist stirred this debate.  If you look over the past similar debates, PG stirs the pot much more than most.  Going directly into a highly defensive mode which is typically to attack. 

Well, I'm glad that you are one to want PG to stay but I gotta say, comparing to a Mexican Cartel isn't exactly helping.  And, yes, there was one who went far (not a little) over the respect line and a few others who have been persistent in their jabs at PGStaff while partially hiding behind an occasional offsetting compliment.   Their true intent became much more evident toward the end of this thread.  

I suggest you dig further back into PGStaff's posts.  To generally describe him here as one who stirs the pot is a very inaccurate depiction.   Any responses that have been highly defensive have been clearly initiated by others making "over the line" remarks such as the one that was made on this thread.  I know that myself and many others here are regularly amazed at his composure and patience with some of this stuff here.  

If a person was formulating the idea of this site/community and was trying to identify someone who could be a great resource, you would want someone who has seen it all and been in the trenches and still is very much in the eye of the hurricane.  Let's see, former college coach, former MLB scout, from an area that struggled to get players the attention they needed in the recruiting process, a person with the character and integrity and determination to do something about it.... a person who has his finger on the pulse of every aspect of the recruiting process and the draft process as well as the top showcase and travel events..  a person who, once they made the huge accomplishment, was still willing to unselfishly share his knowledge and observations, willing to take the petty criticisms of his organization and continue to be that resource for that community...  you would come up with...  PGStaff.  And you would be very hard pressed to find a single better individual to be involved in your site.

And more so... this from CoachLD...

"At one point, I posted a video or link to video of my son (can't recall which), but PGStaff replied and offered to help. I had no idea who he was but thankfully received a message from another member recommending that I take him up on his offer. Obviously, I did and he provided some great insight. One of his first messages back to me was 7 paragraphs long and there was not one mention of PG or his position with the organization. I actually looked him up after he signed with his name and realized how fortunate I was that he was willing to take the time to, not only respond, but respond in a very detailed and thoughtful manner."

PGStaff has done so for countless others here as well.

I've been waiting for this day to come when a few would make their legacy here and actually drive him away.  THAT is deplorable.  

 

cabbagedad posted:
real green posted:
cabbagedad posted:

This is not just a normal public forum.  This is a distinct community of baseball people who, for the most part, are here to help other baseball people along their path.  PGStaff has gone SO FAR above and beyond to be part of that community.  Yes, of course, he has a related business that profits from many of us.  But we here profit a TON from his contributions here.  More important, he has proven time and time again to be the genuine person he claims to be.  There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG with disagreeing with him and saying so here.  But the lack of respect, the tone and the lack of recognition of his efforts here and lack of recognition of his proven character is extremely disappointing.   

I would sure hope that we can continue to be far more and and much better than just a normal public forum.  But seeing threads turn this way is a big concern.  There was a recent thread about the "old days" here and some back and forth about how it was then, how it is now, etc.  I think there were actually more arguments and disagreements in the past but there was at least some awareness of who was sitting at the dinner table.  JMO

 This is getting REALLY old.  I'm starting to think I'm hanging out at the wrong house.

I don't understand.  There has only been one poster on this thread that was a "little" over the respect line.  Everything else has been a civil debate.

At times this forum reminds me of the small Mexican village who defends the Mexican Cartel because of all the good the cartel brings to the local community.  Ignoring all the issues it causes. 

PG's response to a very natural post from San Diego Realist stirred this debate.  If you look over the past similar debates, PG stirs the pot much more than most.  Going directly into a highly defensive mode which is typically to attack. 

Well, I'm glad that you are one to want PG to stay but I gotta say, comparing to a Mexican Cartel isn't exactly helping.  And, yes, there was one who went far (not a little) over the respect line and a few others who have been persistent in their jabs at PGStaff while partially hiding behind an occasional offsetting compliment.   Their true intent became much more evident toward the end of this thread.  

I suggest you dig further back into PGStaff's posts.  To generally describe him here as one who stirs the pot is a very inaccurate depiction.   Any responses that have been highly defensive have been clearly initiated by others making "over the line" remarks such as the one that was made on this thread.  I know that myself and many others here are regularly amazed at his composure and patience with some of this stuff here.  

If a person was formulating the idea of this site/community and was trying to identify someone who could be a great resource, you would want someone who has seen it all and been in the trenches and still is very much in the eye of the hurricane.  Let's see, former college coach, former MLB scout, from an area that struggled to get players the attention they needed in the recruiting process, a person with the character and integrity and determination to do something about it.... a person who has his finger on the pulse of every aspect of the recruiting process and the draft process as well as the top showcase and travel events..  a person who, once they made the huge accomplishment, was still willing to unselfishly share his knowledge and observations, willing to take the petty criticisms of his organization and continue to be that resource for that community...  you would come up with...  PGStaff.  And you would be very hard pressed to find a single better individual to be involved in your site.

And more so... this from CoachLD...

"At one point, I posted a video or link to video of my son (can't recall which), but PGStaff replied and offered to help. I had no idea who he was but thankfully received a message from another member recommending that I take him up on his offer. Obviously, I did and he provided some great insight. One of his first messages back to me was 7 paragraphs long and there was not one mention of PG or his position with the organization. I actually looked him up after he signed with his name and realized how fortunate I was that he was willing to take the time to, not only respond, but respond in a very detailed and thoughtful manner."

PGStaff has done so for countless others here as well.

I've been waiting for this day to come when a few would make their legacy here and actually drive him away.  THAT is deplorable.  

 

Nice post. TY

It's so easy for some people to hide behind a screen name and insult others. It's always been that way. 

 

 

 

"So you can tell the moderator that sent you that report that I too will be leaving this forum and community, because it is not objective, is basically a Petri dish for PG to sway public opinion about the importance they have in the recruiting process. Oh, last word. Perfect Game does pay the bills here and didn't want anyone to know, got that information from TPM. "

In my view, the HSBBW has been tending more and more toward what is experienced by those who coach baseball, especially HS baseball. Perhaps the HSBBW has even a slant which is more harsh than coaching HS baseball  since folks hide behind a screen name in the way they "attack."  Hopefully all of those 2020-2022 can read through this thread and see it as a microcosm of what it is now like to coach HS baseball and at the college level in some situations.  It is messy!

Baseball recruiting has changed,  The attitudes and approaches of parents who are involved in baseball recruiting have changed.  The "need" and frenzy for immediate answers has most definitively changed.

The HSBBW is a single source which allows members to realize there is no one way to be recognized and recruited.  To be honest, over the past few months I would think Headfirst far outweighs PG on this site as a resource for folks to consider. Even though I talked with college coaches who heavily recruit (successfully) the Stanford Camp, more than a few here found the current approach at Stanford not to their liking and stated so publicly. 

In this posters/members perspective, the recruiting process is not, in many ways, where more information is better. Rather, it seems a key issue getting lost is how to process more information without extrinsic pressure. In reality there are only 3 things which are factors in the entire process-baseball talent, exposure and education.Part of processing the information includes processing how PG thinks.  In my view, learning his perspectives is a unique resource of incredible value, if used as a learning tool and not gospel. On this site, posters get that incredible wealth of information at no cost.  You don't need to buy it and you can use all or none of it or something in between.

What seems like a huge mistake being made by some is trying to destroy such a valuable resource. However, it  ain't much different than next Spring will be for far too many HS and college coaches and their staffs!

Not all of our sons will be "D1" or need to be "D1" just like not all of our sons will attend an Ivy or Stanford and don't need to attend and Ivy or Stanford.

So, I guess the HSBBW will now be challenged to assess if it really is a community of those who share a love of baseball as the common theme as contrasted with a "frenzied" site of anxious parents who will do most anything to get something for their son including running off an incredibly valuable resource for reasons which make little to no sense to this poster.

 

OK, another bombshell...

The 2020 or so PM is about parents posting videos and sharing the results of HS/tournament play and their kids individual experiences with each other as everyone tells them congrats, looks great and keep up the hard work.  In addition, velocity, 60 times, and other measureables are shared. It is a direct result of being dismissed in the forums by being told their kids are too young and to enjoy the ride.  The PM has nothing to do with threads devolving into twitter like arguments.  IMO that is driven by a couple posters throwing grenades from behind a screen name.  Nothing new in the history of chat boards.

 

 

I have complimented PG multiple times.  He is a valued resource to HSbaseballweb.  My criticism is of the industry.  It just happens he is also the founder of the biggest company in that industry.  I have no doubt he is a great guy!  He has helped countless people on this forum and in the baseball community.  He has stated in the past PG has snowballed way past what he envisioned when he was just looking to help some players from his state.  

It baffles me that so many are willing to defend an industry and NOT openly debate the merits of its service to our youth baseball community without getting defensive.  The reality is the industry has created significant expense to the recruiting process.  In the middle of it right now watching countless families spending $1000's trying to get noticed.  

I read a great quote the other day.  Something like,

"Stop working so hard to get seen, start working hard on something worth seeing!"  

Sorry I'm late to this party.

I haven't been attending to my moderator duties since Hurricane Irma visited our neighborhood.

I haven't read the whole thread, but I've seen enough--insinuations that PG grades can be bought through repeat business and other nonsense--to know that keeping it open won't help our members navigate their recruiting paths. 

For the record, Jerry doesn't need to buy credibility here. PG already has all the credibility and traffic it needs. His presence lends our site credibility, not the other way around.

This thread is now closed.

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