Pitch Tracking Data for HS Programs

Maybe. We're trying to scrape together the $$$ for one.

Looks interesting, but I’m wondering if it reports on pitches over a period of time and what it reports on. FE, Pitcher “A” throws a pen on day 1. He throws 50 pitches, 30 FBs and 20 breaking pitches, half from the pitcher’s windup and half from his set position. On day 8 he throws another 50. Will the 2 sessions be compared by the machine or will the operator have to be loading the data into some kind of tracking and reporting program so performance is shown?

No. 

ironhorse posted:

No. 

Because of the cost?

Or do you think that it wouldn't be useful?

These high school kids are being subjected to a bunch of non-optional extra cost items to play ball - conditioning programs (hundreds of dollars per year), throwing programs (hundreds of dollars per year) on top of fees for spring ball, summer ball, fall ball, winter ball - no joke, this adds up to $3k-$4k per year that families have to pay to play high school ball... pretty ridiculous.

Smitty28 posted:

These high school kids are being subjected to a bunch of non-optional extra cost items to play ball - conditioning programs (hundreds of dollars per year), throwing programs (hundreds of dollars per year) on top of fees for spring ball, summer ball, fall ball, winter ball - no joke, this adds up to $3k-$4k per year that families have to pay to play high school ball... pretty ridiculous.

Although being someone who loves looking at numbers, I can’t help but wonder what the average HS coach would do with the information that would be available. To me it’s a lot like going out and dropping several hundred on a radar gun just to see the numbers.

Stats4Gnats posted:

Smitty28 posted:

These high school kids are being subjected to a bunch of non-optional extra cost items to play ball - conditioning programs (hundreds of dollars per year), throwing programs (hundreds of dollars per year) on top of fees for spring ball, summer ball, fall ball, winter ball - no joke, this adds up to $3k-$4k per year that families have to pay to play high school ball... pretty ridiculous.

Although being someone who loves looking at numbers, I can’t help but wonder what the average HS coach would do with the information that would be available. To me it’s a lot like going out and dropping several hundred on a radar gun just to see the numbers.

Both this and a radar gun are tools - they're only as good as the coach who uses them. If you're working on increasing velocity, what better tool than a radar gun? No, it's not just to "see the numbers." As to a Rapsado, the uses are many when it comes to refining the breaking pitch. Measuring effective velocity, spin rate and movement in two planes is extremely useful to a pitcher in learning how changes in arm movement, grip, and slot affect the pitch.

roothog66 posted:

Stats4Gnats posted:

Smitty28 posted:

These high school kids are being subjected to a bunch of non-optional extra cost items to play ball - conditioning programs (hundreds of dollars per year), throwing programs (hundreds of dollars per year) on top of fees for spring ball, summer ball, fall ball, winter ball - no joke, this adds up to $3k-$4k per year that families have to pay to play high school ball... pretty ridiculous.

Although being someone who loves looking at numbers, I can’t help but wonder what the average HS coach would do with the information that would be available. To me it’s a lot like going out and dropping several hundred on a radar gun just to see the numbers.

Both this and a radar gun are tools - they're only as good as the coach who uses them. If you're working on increasing velocity, what better tool than a radar gun? No, it's not just to "see the numbers." As to a Rapsado, the uses are many when it comes to refining the breaking pitch. Measuring effective velocity, spin rate and movement in two planes is extremely useful to a pitcher in learning how changes in arm movement, grip, and slot affect the pitch.

And even with fastballs, if a high school coach had spin rates for his pitchers' fastballs, that would be useful information for even the "average HS coach" because:

"For four-seam fastballs, it’s pretty straightforward. High-spin fastballs result in more flyballs and swing-and-misses and are more valuable thrown middle up in the zone. Low-spin fastballs result in more ground balls and are more valuable thrown down in the zone. If you have an average spin rate, your best bet is going to be learning a two-seam." See www.drivelinebaseball.com/2017...n-offspeed-pitches/?

roothog66 posted:Both this and a radar gun are tools - they're only as good as the coach who uses them. If you're working on increasing velocity, what better tool than a radar gun? No, it's not just to "see the numbers." As to a Rapsado, the uses are many when it comes to refining the breaking pitch. Measuring effective velocity, spin rate and movement in two planes is extremely useful to a pitcher in learning how changes in arm movement, grip, and slot affect the pitch.

 Mebbe it’s just that I doubt many HS teams have a pitching coach of such a high quality that he not only has the wherewithal to interpret what the numbers are telling him, but the ability to teach the individuals how to make the changes necessary to take advantage of the information, and the time with each individual to apply to make the changes permanent. It seems to me that if a school had a coach who could do all that, they wouldn’t need the tool.

 But then again, I surely can’t say for sure how useful it would be because I don’t know much about it. What I do know is, 3K is a heap of $$$$ for a tool whose value isn’t assured. I just think there's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

2019Dad posted:And even with fastballs, if a high school coach had spin rates for his pitchers' fastballs, that would be useful information for even the "average HS coach" because:

"For four-seam fastballs, it’s pretty straightforward. High-spin fastballs result in more flyballs and swing-and-misses and are more valuable thrown middle up in the zone. Low-spin fastballs result in more ground balls and are more valuable thrown down in the zone. If you have an average spin rate, your best bet is going to be learning a two-seam." See www.drivelinebaseball.com/2017...n-offspeed-pitches/?

Are you saying (A) that the person calling the pitches is going to consider the spin rates before he calls every pitch; and (B) that the pitchers at the HS level will be able to correctly execute in a game?

i know a pitching coach here in Houston using it for his high school program and travel team.     They also have one at the workout facility my son works out at but they have a ton of minor and major league players. 

Stats4Gnats posted:

roothog66 posted:Both this and a radar gun are tools - they're only as good as the coach who uses them. If you're working on increasing velocity, what better tool than a radar gun? No, it's not just to "see the numbers." As to a Rapsado, the uses are many when it comes to refining the breaking pitch. Measuring effective velocity, spin rate and movement in two planes is extremely useful to a pitcher in learning how changes in arm movement, grip, and slot affect the pitch.

 Mebbe it’s just that I doubt many HS teams have a pitching coach of such a high quality that he not only has the wherewithal to interpret what the numbers are telling him, but the ability to teach the individuals how to make the changes necessary to take advantage of the information, and the time with each individual to apply to make the changes permanent. It seems to me that if a school had a coach who could do all that, they wouldn’t need the tool.

 But then again, I surely can’t say for sure how useful it would be because I don’t know much about it. What I do know is, 3K is a heap of $$$$ for a tool whose value isn’t assured. I just think there's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

You're correct but I think for the most part that only those who understand it's use would even buy one. As to the cost, I was amazed to find how that compared to a lot of the football and basketball equipment in our athletic department. For example, the Rapsodo cost less than the rebounding machine our basketball team has.

Stats4Gnats posted:

2019Dad posted:And even with fastballs, if a high school coach had spin rates for his pitchers' fastballs, that would be useful information for even the "average HS coach" because:

"For four-seam fastballs, it’s pretty straightforward. High-spin fastballs result in more flyballs and swing-and-misses and are more valuable thrown middle up in the zone. Low-spin fastballs result in more ground balls and are more valuable thrown down in the zone. If you have an average spin rate, your best bet is going to be learning a two-seam." See www.drivelinebaseball.com/2017...n-offspeed-pitches/?

Are you saying (A) that the person calling the pitches is going to consider the spin rates before he calls every pitch; and (B) that the pitchers at the HS level will be able to correctly execute in a game?

You are correct in your assessment that this type of information is way beyond what MOST HS baseball coaches would know what to do with.  They are primarily concerned with who can throw strikes and who wont pee down their leg in a tough situation.  At the HS level this information would be useful only for  the most elite level prospect and his pitching instructor. Doesn't really matter what the spin rate is on an 81 mph fastball, as it is below bat speed anyway.

Stats4Gnats posted:

Looks interesting, but I’m wondering if it reports on pitches over a period of time and what it reports on. FE, Pitcher “A” throws a pen on day 1. He throws 50 pitches, 30 FBs and 20 breaking pitches, half from the pitcher’s windup and half from his set position. On day 8 he throws another 50. Will the 2 sessions be compared by the machine or will the operator have to be loading the data into some kind of tracking and reporting program so performance is shown?

yes you enter pitchers data and it keeps track over time.  

Stats4Gnats posted:

2019Dad posted:And even with fastballs, if a high school coach had spin rates for his pitchers' fastballs, that would be useful information for even the "average HS coach" because:

"For four-seam fastballs, it’s pretty straightforward. High-spin fastballs result in more flyballs and swing-and-misses and are more valuable thrown middle up in the zone. Low-spin fastballs result in more ground balls and are more valuable thrown down in the zone. If you have an average spin rate, your best bet is going to be learning a two-seam." See www.drivelinebaseball.com/2017...n-offspeed-pitches/?

Are you saying (A) that the person calling the pitches is going to consider the spin rates before he calls every pitch; and (B) that the pitchers at the HS level will be able to correctly execute in a game?

No. I'm saying that if I know the guy on the mound is a high-spin-rate guy, I'm going to lean more towards up in the zone with calling fastballs. Or down for low spin guys. And if I have a pitcher who has an average spin rate, maybe I have him try a two-seamer. Plus the breaking ball benefits outlined by Root.

The other thing about technology is it tends to get cheaper over time. I could see this level of technology -- I'm sure Rapsodo will try to add features and capabilities to keep the price up -- being $1500 or less in 5-10 years. 

I guess it depends on the high school. Clearly there are high schools out there who already think it can provide value (see tweet from JSerra in the OP). 

P.S. -- of course pitchers at the HS level fail in their execution quite often. That doesn't stop coaches from calling pitch locations.

gunner34 posted: yes you enter pitchers data and it keeps track over time.  

I’d be interested in being able to relate the data from the bullpen to performance in games. IOW, if Johnny has a spin rate of “X” and the OPS against him is .400, what does the OPS against him look like if his spin rate “improves” to “Y”?

ops of .400 pretty darn good  but I would think that would be up to pitching coach to track.   I guess the key is bringing your A+ bullpen stuff to the mound in game.    More a mental aspect or how you prepare pre game I would think.  

But reminds me of interviews with pitchers who say well I didn't have a feel on my slider in the first couple innings etc.   or was having trouble hitting glove side location.    Every game is different. 

gunner34 postedps of .400 pretty darn good  but I would think that would be up to pitching coach to track.   I guess the key is bringing your A+ bullpen stuff to the mound in game.    More a mental aspect or how you prepare pre game I would think.  

 How many HS pitching coaches do you think track much of anything, and what is it you think they track?

 I’m still not quite clear on how that thing is used. Would it be set up and used for pre-game warmups? If not, it’s pretty difficult to throw a full pen one day then expect the same performance 1 or 2 days later.

But reminds me of interviews with pitchers who say well I didn't have a feel on my slider in the first couple innings etc.   or was having trouble hitting glove side location.    Every game is different. 

Every game is different but every pen is the same. That’s why from the metrics perspective pens aren’t good to bet on.

what I have seen where my son takes pitching lessons,   they use it as a tool with the college and pro pitchers that work out there.    it tracks and stores velocity information and tells you effective spin.   some of the players use it to play with grips and determine the most effective slider grip with the proper spin etc.   checking to see that pitches come out of the same tunnel.  

  as far as high schools I'm guessing if the pitching coach wants one of these he is well aware of the uses and benefits plus the company comes out and gives them a full tutorial on how to use it and the what the data means etc.  The one coach I know that is using it at his high school has his whole pitching staff on an app,  where they log in daily what they did,  how much they threw,  how the arm felt on a 1-10 scale.  He is tracking all bullpens and innings and pitch counts.