Pitcher / DH

NFHS - are you allowed to have P/DH on the lineup card with the goal of having your starting pitcher remain in the game as the DH when he is no longer pitching?

Looking at the rule book I'm thinking Rule 3 Section 1 Article 4 is saying no you cannot but I don't trust my reading of legalese.

My pitching coach swears up and down 12 years ago he did this when he was head coach and I don't think in 20 years of coaching HS baseball this was ever allowed.  This is a college rule if I'm remembering correctly.

Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude. Thomas Jefferson

Original Post
coach2709 posted:

My pitching coach swears up and down 12 years ago he did this when he was head coach and I don't think in 20 years of coaching HS baseball this was ever allowed.  This is a college rule if I'm remembering correctly.

It wasn't allowed for the 20+ years I umpired HS ball.

FLA, iirc, has (or had) a rule that allows this (but it's not quite the NCAA rule).

coach2709 posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

Coach 2709, Just because I am a history teacher (and you know how THEY can be... ):  The quote in your signature block doesn't appear to be from Thomas Jefferson, although it often is attributed to him.  More info here:

  https://www.monticello.org/sit...e-spurious-quotation

With all due respect but I could care less.  I'm also a history teacher myself.

And since the link does not give credit to anyone else, I say no  harm no foul. 

BishopLeftiesDad posted:
coach2709 posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

Coach 2709, Just because I am a history teacher (and you know how THEY can be... ):  The quote in your signature block doesn't appear to be from Thomas Jefferson, although it often is attributed to him.  More info here:

  https://www.monticello.org/sit...e-spurious-quotation

With all due respect but I could care less.  I'm also a history teacher myself.

And since the link does not give credit to anyone else, I say no  harm no foul. 

I'd say "no harm, no foul" regardless.  But I'd be surprised to see evidence anyone in the 18th or early 19th century had used the phrase "mental attitude."  

"With all due respect" is a great phrase for online written communication:  It can mean anything from the the very mild up to and including "go ---- yourself."  And I suppose I anything along that spectrum is fair as a reply to someone introducing history on a baseball discussion board.

  

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Chico Escuela posted:
BishopLeftiesDad posted:
coach2709 posted:
Chico Escuela posted:

Coach 2709, Just because I am a history teacher (and you know how THEY can be... ):  The quote in your signature block doesn't appear to be from Thomas Jefferson, although it often is attributed to him.  More info here:

  https://www.monticello.org/sit...e-spurious-quotation

With all due respect but I could care less.  I'm also a history teacher myself.

And since the link does not give credit to anyone else, I say no  harm no foul. 

I'd say "no harm, no foul" regardless.  But I'd be surprised to see evidence anyone in the 18th or early 19th century had used the phrase "mental attitude."  

"With all due respect" is a great phrase for online written communication:  It can mean anything from the the very mild up to and including "go ---- yourself."  And I suppose I anything along that spectrum is fair as a reply to someone introducing history on a baseball discussion board.

  

Well I definitely did not mean it all the way to the level of GFY.  But there was no relevance to pointing out if TJ may or may not have said it.  I could care less because it's the meaning / impact of the words that matter to me.  For all I care Gandhi, Lincoln, Yoda or Donald Duck could have said it.  All I did was cut and paste it onto my signature.

As for those who answered my question thank you very much.

Never saw it on my son's team in HS....... our pitcher was normally one of our better hitters so he was n the lineup.

My son has been in this situation a couple times this year in college.  He started the game at DH.....then came in in relief on the mound....then remained in the game as the DH.  Our team's radio guy isn't really up on rules....boy was he confused when my son was still batting after he had finished on the mound.   Another game, the starting P was also the DH....son came in to throw, but went took our original 1B's position in the order.    Original P stayed as the DH but played 1B after he was done on the mound.  Man, the poor radio guy had no idea what to say when both of the pitchers were still batting the next inning.

I've always heard this referred to as the "Minnesota Rule." I wish they would implement this nationwide. Let the pitcher DH for himself. In high school, your best pitcher is often one of your best hitters, as well and a coach shouldn't be put in the position of having to leave him on the mound longer just to keep his lineup intact.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Another game, the starting P was also the DH....son came in to throw, but went took our original 1B's position in the order.    Original P stayed as the DH but played 1B after he was done on the mound.  Man, the poor radio guy had no idea what to say when both of the pitchers were still batting the next inning.

No, the original P did not stay as the DH.  The team lost its DH and now had a "straight" 9-man lineup.

roothog66 posted:

I've always heard this referred to as the "Minnesota Rule." I wish they would implement this nationwide. Let the pitcher DH for himself. In high school, your best pitcher is often one of your best hitters, as well and a coach shouldn't be put in the position of having to leave him on the mound longer just to keep his lineup intact.

It existed for three years in Minnesota. It is no longer in place.

Not sure how long it's been in place - first year calling in FL (was in NC and NH before that). Essentially as it's been explained once removed from the mound the player marked as P/DH cannot enter defensively. Thankfully I haven't seen it in use yet. The whole removal thing is really odd, but essentially you end up inserting the defensive player for whom the (now) former P will be the DH (whether that player pitches or plays some other position). The "spot" in the lineup is now known as the DH spot. I cannot wait to see the coach that removes the P/DH and then reinserts him. My lineup card will become one big mess.  I have to wonder though by reinserting him that means you have to burn another substitute for whom he returns as the DH for - since you're reinserting the sub in the lineup spot of the P/DH would now have to come out. If you don't have such player, then you have to play w/ 8 defensively since the P/DH cannot enter the field defensively after being removed. Probably only an issue in some extra inning game where one team has come back from a large deficit and the P/DH coach is now scrambling to get his better players back in the game.

This is how it's written:

• 3-1-4 DH Rule Addition (does not replace rule): The designated hitter
and the starting pitcher may be the same person. If the pitcher opts to bat for
himself, he is treated as two separate positions - a pitcher and a designated
hitter (abbreviated P/DH on the lineup card) - and may be substituted for as
such (i.e. if he is removed as the pitcher, then he may remain as the designated
hitter and vice versa). However, if a player who starts the game as a P/DH is
relieved as the starting pitcher, he may not return to the mound even if he
remains in the game as DH, and he may not play any other defensive position
after being relieved as the pitcher.

on page 42 of:

https://www.fhsaa.org/sites/de...ials_guidebook_3.pdf

 

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