Pitching with your legs?

I do not have any advice, mbut take a look inn the pitching and throwing fporum. I bet it has been covered. Good luck.

 

http://community.hsbaseballweb...itching-and-throwing

What they mean is that he is not utilizing his lower body for the power needed to increase velocity.  Without seeing your son pitch, it's hard to say what he needs to work on.

He probably needs to adjust his conditioning for lower body, the power comes from the legs, butt and core rather than the arm.

You might want to contact BO or JH they are  real good at suggestions with drills and conditioning.

baseballmomx4,

 

Pres was told..."power up" (as from legs to trunk to shoulder to arm to release). He did Yoga, & Isometric exercises, focusing on lower body & trunk. 

His lower half is where he will get his velo . One of the very best drills for this is simple ... Running . Easy and very effective . Also check out Tuff Cuff , good workouts for any pitcher . 

Typical issue for young pitchers. How old is he?

 

Sorry Tom but running in general does not do much for pitchers. I suspect he is just young and does not have the developed strength in his lower body. Some of this will come over time and he can get in the gym and start a good lower body strength and conditioning program first. Once he has developed then work with a good pitching instructor. 

 

Post his age and you will get some more constructive feedback. (also size, weight)

Some of his problem could be strength in the legs and core.  I'm wondering if some of it is just not mechanics.  That is something we cannot know without seeing him pitch.  Is there any way you could post a video of him throwing?

 

Some people will sort of just fall forward off the mound.  The strength from the legs comes from pushing off the rubber and really getting forward momentum and hip/shoulder separation starting with the legs and then working up all the way to the arm. 

I agree with BOF, running does not increase leg strength.

 

Pitching is pitching, the power is not in the arm, the push, fall, but rather the torque in the hips, the length of stride.

 

Baseballmom described it best in expressing power up, there is a significant chain of events that occurs before the ball is released, my suggestion is to get a pitching instructor to help correct any issues he has, get on a good lower body conditioning program (not just running).

Thank you all for the input.  He just turned 16, is 5'11" about 150lbs. He does a strength and conditioning program 3x a week with a trainer, goes to the gym to work on core and legs, and runs (but I think for stamina). Baseballmom, I will look into yoga.  Bballman and TPM he thinks you're right and it is mechanics. What they said was he was not using much of his legs in his pitching, using mostly arm.  He does have a pitching instructor so he will bring it up to him.  (Although I think it should have been the other way around). After looking at some tapes my son said he can see what he is doing wrong.  He thinks his stride is too short and he is finishing almost upright.  Aside from repitition of the correct delivery, any other things he can work on or do to correct this.  He said he feels like he is doing it but when looking at the tape it's obvious he is not.  (He should get his own profile and ask these questions, i'll let him read your advice though)

Thanks for the help.

Sorry , should have elaborated more . A good pitcher running program , sprints , uphill and resistance , helps increase the ability to repeatedly do short explosive movement without a decrease in power . Which is what pitching is .

Without actually seeing a pitcher throw it is impossible to give any advice. However, one thing that has worked very well for us in the past has been utilizing martial arts. Karate training designated for baseball accomplishes many things.  It improves balance, flexibility, and helps explosiveness. More importantly I believe it helps players stay healthy.  All body parts are used with a lot of leg and core work. I have yet to see a single player who didn't improve by utilizing karate techniques in their training.  It could have been luck, but we went 6 years with this method and did not have a single injury that resulted in missing games.

I pretty much agree with all of this.  I'll just say this . . . 

 

Running is great for cardio and some conditioning, but not so much for strengthening.  Strong and conditioned legs are important to pitchers as the legs are the "foundation" that supports the rest.  When the foundation goes, the rest of it goes.  

 

But in terms of power and velocity of a throw, the legs don't directly contribute much (the stride being the main contributor by the legs).  The legs do help the upper body get in position and it's the torque of the torso and the whip of the wrist and arm (and some of the back) that all combine to produce velocity.  It's that torso and upper body that needs to be able to have flexibility and produce explosiveness to generate velocity.  Whatever exercise method is used to enhance those things/parts, velocity will be enhanced.

At my son's high school all of the programs have bought into base strength training (i.e squats, bench press, hang cleans, etc) plus routines geared towards their sports specific requirements (aerobic, plyo, etc).  As for pitching, my son attended an excelent program from Next Level Baseball Training (Hamlin University coaches) and the following is a video showing the strength training program they use for pitchers - lot's of core, and explosive training http://nlbtraining.com/2013/05...-in-the-weight-room/ 

There is a possibility that these things are being worked on with him with the pitching instuctor.  This strength develops over time, as the player grows and matures physically.

 

Sit down and have a conversation with him (pcoach) and develop a long term plan, do not try to have Rome built in a day. Yoga is great but,  I do not really feel that you have to attack everything all at once.

Don't put too much stock into the idea that your power comes from your lower half.  The fact is that a pitcher can throw 80% of their top speed from their knees.  If you don't believe me, go out with a radar gun and try it.  That doesn't even mean that 20% of the velo comes from the legs because some of that difference comes from the gravity from falling down hill and the greater separation of shoulders and hips when standing up.  It is unlikely that more than 10% comes from the legs.  That's not insignificant, but some pitchers spend 80% of their time working on something that only contributes 10% of their energy to the plate.

On a closely related matter, also don't believe that the back leg pushes off of the rubber.  It's not supposed to.  Notice that professional pitchers all lead with the left hip (for right handers).  That's because they are letting gravity pull them down the mound.  You can look at still photos that appear to be pushing off of the rubber, but if you watch a video, you'll see the front hip pulling them down the mound. Stand with your feet about 6 inches apart and lift your left leg.  What happens?  You start falling.  If you don't rotate your hips and get your left leg out there, you'll fall.  That's where the acceleration down the mound comes from.  "Balance at the top" coaches rob their pitchers of that energy because they have to either lean or bend their back leg to get started and that's a waste of energy.  Read a Tom House book and he explains all of this with laboratory research and photos to support it.  I'd recommend this one because it comes with a great DVD, http://amzn.to/1HW2NA1. 

There's a lot of unscientific opinions about what happens on the mound.  Be sure to do your research and cut through the opinionated bickering (linear vs. rotational, etc.).  I encourage you to not believe the things I've said in this message either.  Go out and research them, too.

 

Mike

       
       
I guess it depends how you define 'push'.  Agreed you are not technically pushing off the rubber.  But no doubt in addition to falling there is also pushing off the back foot.  I like House and use his wall drill to emphasize that fall and lead hip.  I think the push comes a little later in the delivery but it is there none the less.  Watch the somax/linceculm video.  There is a brief moment if you freeze frame where both feet are off the ground.  This could not happen by falling alone.  The fall starts the motion of the legs and the push finishes it

Good timing for this recent article from Driveline. "Lower Half Pitching Mechanics: Data-Driven Analysis"

 

http://www.drivelinebaseball.c...ata-driven-analysis/

 

Kyle, if you are reading that is awesome stuff!

https://youtu.be/GL3wZvA_MBk

Link to the Hershiser drill. Good for leading with hip and utilizing lower body.

An excellent drill!

 

And, actually, it's more like leading with one's butt cheek.  One needs to touch the fence with one's butt as a way to induce rotation and balance. :-) 

Here's the secret:

 

Mass + technique = velocity

Mass???

 

How about:  Compound Leverage + Acceleration + technique = velocity?

 

(I'm such an ainalytic!)