Playoff Craziness

Matt is 100% correct. There is NO WAY this should have been overturned. It was a judgment call based on HS rules. The MLB rules don't apply here. It blows my mind how people do but understand the rule book. You can't pick and choose which rules you think should be applied. And yes I DO believe politics came into play this morning. I don't have a dog in this fight, but GHSA opened a can of worms. The biggest problem is the winner will be screwed due to finals on Friday. There is no way they can navigate pitching a game on Wednesday and expect to compete at their best with another series starting 2 days later. 

Matt13 posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

I don't think it had to do with feelings, and I don't think it had to do with the area the teams are from.  It boiled down to did the umps make a mistake that changed the result of the game, they are human, it happens.  At the end of the day I think a 3rd game was the best compromise for all involved however, I sincerely doubt that group of umps will see the field for the rest of THIS year.

There was no mistake (maybe judgment, but that's not protestable.) The umpires applied the rule correctly, and are getting thrown under the bus.

The GHSA has violated its own policy in this.

From what I have read John's Creek didn't want to go into the finals with people questioning if they should be there.  They wanted game three as much as Lee did. The video is compelling and the reason Lee said it didn't matter is also compelling, according to Lee's coach the HP umpire yelled "ballgame"...while he thinks his player touched third he's saying it shouldn't have mattered.

CaCO3Girl posted:
Matt13 posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

I don't think it had to do with feelings, and I don't think it had to do with the area the teams are from.  It boiled down to did the umps make a mistake that changed the result of the game, they are human, it happens.  At the end of the day I think a 3rd game was the best compromise for all involved however, I sincerely doubt that group of umps will see the field for the rest of THIS year.

There was no mistake (maybe judgment, but that's not protestable.) The umpires applied the rule correctly, and are getting thrown under the bus.

The GHSA has violated its own policy in this.

From what I have read John's Creek didn't want to go into the finals with people questioning if they should be there.  They wanted game three as much as Lee did. The video is compelling and the reason Lee said it didn't matter is also compelling, according to Lee's coach the HP umpire yelled "ballgame"...while he thinks his player touched third he's saying it shouldn't have mattered.

??  I think you have your teams backward.

Also, irrelevant whether HP ump called ballgame or not.  Appeal limit on a game ending call expires when the umpires LEAVE the field, not whether one of them called ballgame or not.  The appeal was made within the allowed timeframe.

noumpere posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

according to Lee's coach the HP umpire yelled "ballgame"...

There's no mechanic to do that, it doesn't mean anything if it's done, and here's one reason not to do it.

A person quoted on another discussion board that it's actually a rule in GA that the ump can't call the game unless all runners have advanced to their next base.

and yes, got the schools backwards but you get my drift.

CaCO3Girl posted:
noumpere posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

according to Lee's coach the HP umpire yelled "ballgame"...

There's no mechanic to do that, it doesn't mean anything if it's done, and here's one reason not to do it.

A person quoted on another discussion board that it's actually a rule in GA that the ump can't call the game unless all runners have advanced to their next base.

and yes, got the schools backwards but you get my drift.

IT's true that all the runners are required to advance in HS ball (that's NOT true in OBR).

 

But, the umpire shouldn't announce, "Ballgame" when the game is over -- because, as we see here, it might not really be over.

 

Just watch the run score, the other runners advance (or not) and leave the field.

Here's a great article on the topic.  Amazing that they admit that they're overturning a judgement call (5 days after the incident) and that is sets an "uneasy precedent".  That's an understatement.

What's really amazing to me is the thought process.  

“If it’s the second inning of a baseball game or second quarter of a football game, you’ve got plenty of time to overcome a bad call,’’ White said. ‘’This situation is a different. It’s a semifinal state playoff game in baseball, and it’s the end of the game. I just see that differently. That had lot to do with swaying my opinion.”  

So basically saying that the importance of getting calls right vary based on when in the game the calls occur.  This guy is a clown.

http://highschoolsports.blog.a...game-3-on-wednesday/

 

Cowbells, really?

That is what should have been appealed. 

 

 Seriously, i hope Game 3 is a good one and the kids get some closure, Pope will be tough regardless of who had pitching etc. I know Jeff and Daryl and they always produce solid baseball teams who can flat out play the game. 

Good luck to all involved.

Shoveit4Ks posted:

 

Cowbells, really?

That is what should have been appealed. 

 

 Seriously, i hope Game 3 is a good one and the kids get some closure, Pope will be tough regardless of who had pitching etc. I know Jeff and Daryl and they always produce solid baseball teams who can flat out play the game. 

Good luck to all involved.

I have to say, I wasn't sad to hear that Pope didn't make the jump to 7A with many of the teams they played last year! 

They said that video is not allowed in reviewing calls. So, how did this guy know that the umps missed the call?  

Secondly, overturning the rules because they inconvenienced someone?  Really?  Are we going to have rules or not?  If a rule is wrong or bad, you get rid of it through deliberation, not capriciously to favor one party.

This appears to be very bad practice. 

Shoveit4Ks posted:

 

Cowbells, really?

That is what should have been appealed. 

 

 Seriously, i hope Game 3 is a good one and the kids get some closure, Pope will be tough regardless of who had pitching etc. I know Jeff and Daryl and they always produce solid baseball teams who can flat out play the game. 

Good luck to all involved.

And not just cow bells, but tee-ball, snack mommy, custom cow bells.

https://twitter.com/NatalieFFO...s/864289258420490240

The decision to play a 3rd game aside I have not seen a ruling (or rule) regarding how the pitching is affected. With the appeals process and span of days since the 2nd game was played I would think at least two different pitching scenarios are possible:

1) enough days have elapsed to reset all pitchers pitch counts so everyone starts fresh and both teams can start their aces in game 3.

2) the 3rd game is treated as if it were being played the day after the double header and all pitch counts for pitchers in game 1 and 2 stand (with the exception of the 8th inning in game 2 that is not official now).  

If it is option 1 and both throw their aces, and let's say throw more than 80 pitches each, are either eligible to throw starting Friday in the Finals or do they require 3 days rest?

If this has been addressed I missed it.

There has been no mention of any new rule on pitching, so you'd assume that both teams have everyone available to throw since it'll be 7 days since they last played.  The bigger issue is the impact on the next series where Pope, on 9 days rest, will face on of the two teams on one day rest.  Clearly a HUGE disadvantage for whichever team advances.

As for the three days rest comment, that's a moot point as GHSA saw fit to completely change all the pitch count rules for playoffs and the only pitch count is no more than 120 pitches in a three day window.  That's what allowed Woodstock to throw a pitcher 96 pitches on Wednesday and come back and throw 24 the very next night in a closer appearance.

Add to the mix that rain is in the forecast all week here, who knows when game 3 will be played and subsequently when the championship series might start.

Nuke83 posted:

There has been no mention of any new rule on pitching, so you'd assume that both teams have everyone available to throw since it'll be 7 days since they last played.  The bigger issue is the impact on the next series where Pope, on 9 days rest, will face on of the two teams on one day rest.  Clearly a HUGE disadvantage for whichever team advances.

As for the three days rest comment, that's a moot point as GHSA saw fit to completely change all the pitch count rules for playoffs and the only pitch count is no more than 120 pitches in a three day window.  That's what allowed Woodstock to throw a pitcher 96 pitches on Wednesday and come back and throw 24 the very next night in a closer appearance.

Add to the mix that rain is in the forecast all week here, who knows when game 3 will be played and subsequently when the championship series might start.

You sure about the Nuke?  I thought playoff pitching rules trump all, that is 120 per series per pitcher....no mention if the "series" lasted 3 days as intended or 15 days. 7 day rest may be irrelevant?

CaCO3Girl posted:
Nuke83 posted:

There has been no mention of any new rule on pitching, so you'd assume that both teams have everyone available to throw since it'll be 7 days since they last played.  The bigger issue is the impact on the next series where Pope, on 9 days rest, will face on of the two teams on one day rest.  Clearly a HUGE disadvantage for whichever team advances.

As for the three days rest comment, that's a moot point as GHSA saw fit to completely change all the pitch count rules for playoffs and the only pitch count is no more than 120 pitches in a three day window.  That's what allowed Woodstock to throw a pitcher 96 pitches on Wednesday and come back and throw 24 the very next night in a closer appearance.

Add to the mix that rain is in the forecast all week here, who knows when game 3 will be played and subsequently when the championship series might start.

You sure about the Nuke?  I thought playoff pitching rules trump all, that is 120 per series per pitcher....no mention if the "series" lasted 3 days as intended or 15 days. 7 day rest may be irrelevant?

The "rule" that was sent out did state a three game series, but it was also ambiguous in that it mentioned weather affected games, but made no further stipulation of what that meant.

At this point, with GHSA, I think we should see what happens, who protests, and then how many times the board votes before they declare a winner in any game going forward.

I see what you mean....it is oddly worded.  Here it is for the rest of the folks:

"State Tournament - The format for all rounds will be a “best-of-three” series with the first two games being played on the first day. During the State Tournament, no pitcher shall be allowed to throw more than 120 pitches over a three-game series (unless the schedule is affected by weather delays)."

Right...I'm not in GA, but I read it as 120 in a 3 game series (meaning if it went 3 games over 2 days).....the "unless weather" part of it is kind of open ended......I take it to mean that if it goes more than 2 days, the 120 rule is not valid, but what rule do they go to?   Sure seems like someone didn't think this thru when they wrote the rules....had to think rain issues would come up

Interesting.  Many times we hear how common sense should "sometimes" come into play over ruling the rule set. Yet, when it does just as many folks are upset.  

Going down the common sense road has the potential to get out of control very quickly.  Everyone has the ability to video with their phone.  How many judgement calls will be debated with video evidence?  "Under the argument that It is a really important game, let's use common sense and allow the video to overturn the outcome."

I think they made the wrong decission.  The umps called it correctly.  Nothing to overturn.  He very well could have missed third.  The video is not conclusive.  The fact the coach requested the appeal tells me he more than likely missed the bag.  

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Right...I'm not in GA, but I read it as 120 in a 3 game series (meaning if it went 3 games over 2 days).....the "unless weather" part of it is kind of open ended......I take it to mean that if it goes more than 2 days, the 120 rule is not valid, but what rule do they go to?   Sure seems like someone didn't think this thru when they wrote the rules....had to think rain issues would come up

The "normal" pitching rules are:

Pitching restrictions:
(a) Maximum Pitches in One Game: Varsity 110; sub-varsity 90.
(b) Required Rest Periods:


Varsity/Sub-Varsity
1-35 Pitches 0 Days/ 1-24 Pitches 0 Days
36-60 Pitches 1 Day/ 25-44 Pitches 1 Day
61-85 Pitches 2 Days/ 45-64 Pitches 2 Days
86-110 Pitches 3 Days/ 65-90 Pitches 3 Days


Note: A pitcher shall not throw more than 110 pitches (90 for sub-varsity) in a single game or cumulative over a two-day period. A pitcher shall not pitch more than two consecutive days regardless of the pitch count, at which time a minimum 1-day rest period is required. Doubleheaders are considered two separate games and single-game pitch count limitations are in effect. All other rest periods are based on the total pitches thrown.


(c) A pitcher at any level (varsity or sub-varsity) shall be allowed to finish the batter when the pitch count limit is reached during an at bat, but must be replaced immediately when that at-bat ends.
(d) A “Day of Rest” is defined as a calendar day. Example: a varsity level pitcher who reaches the 110-pitch limit on a Tuesday would not be allowed to pitch again until Saturday.
(e) Tabulation of pitch count - This process will be done by an individual registered with a GHSA local association. This official recorder will be paid a one-half game fee plus travel. It will then be the responsibility of the recorder to enter the pitch count information for each school following the completion of the game into the GHSA MIS system.

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