Princeton vs Alabama

I wonder how it came down to those two schools.  Good enough for Alabama, but Stanford, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt or Duke are not in the mix?  Surely Princeton is cream of the crop academically but there are a few schools such as the above that are also top tier but with much stronger football.  I wonder if he realized there are too many educational compromises to be made as an athlete even at a top tier P5 school.

Smitty28 posted:

I wonder how it came down to those two schools.  Good enough for Alabama, but Stanford, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt or Duke are not in the mix?  Surely Princeton is cream of the crop academically but there are a few schools such as the above that are also top tier but with much stronger football.  I wonder if he realized there are too many educational compromises to be made as an athlete even at a top tier P5 school.

It didn’t come down to these two schools. He chose Princeton over several PAC 12 schools and some other Power 5’s. His brother was the QB at ASU. Alabama was a late suitor. They came calling after he had already made the Princeton decision. I’m betting Alabama pursued him after other preferred QB recruits committed elsewhere. If I’m the kid I’m thinking I’m nothing but long shot QB insurance at Alabama.

What happened is the kid doesn’t have stars in his eyes. He experienced the BS in his recruiting process. He saw what his brother went through playing big time college football. He’s mature enough to look at life after football. If he doesn’t flunk out of Princeton (unlikely) he’s set for life with the network he’s entering. Anyone want to bet against he’s working on Wall Steet in five years.

RJM posted:
Smitty28 posted:

I wonder how it came down to those two schools.  Good enough for Alabama, but Stanford, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt or Duke are not in the mix?  Surely Princeton is cream of the crop academically but there are a few schools such as the above that are also top tier but with much stronger football.  I wonder if he realized there are too many educational compromises to be made as an athlete even at a top tier P5 school.

It didn’t come down to these two schools. He chose Princeton over several PAC 12 schools and some other Power 5’s. His brother is the QB at ASU. Alabama was a late suitor. They came calling after he had already made the Princeton decision. I’m betting Alabama pursued him after other preferred QB recruits committed elsewhere. If I’m the kid I’m thinking I’m nothing but long shot QB insurance at Alabama.

What happened is the kid doesn’t have stars in his eyes. He experienced the BS in his recruiting process. He saw wanat his brother went through playing big time college football. He’s mature enough to look at life after football. If he doesn’t flunk out of Princeton (unlikely) he’s set for life with the network he’s entering. Anyone want to bet against he’s working on Wall Steet in five years.

^^^This. 

Had to question my friend: how much does your son expect to make as a professional LAX player?  As smart as he is shouldn't he be thinking about life after college?  Wouldn't Mich, ND, Navy, or Princ be stronger options than DU?  He decommitted and committed to Princeton shortly after.

(When this article came out, he texted it to me right away...Kid also went from a 27 to a 34 ACT which had to open up their eyes for possiblities)

Smitty28 posted:

I wonder how it came down to those two schools.  Good enough for Alabama, but Stanford, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt or Duke are not in the mix?  Surely Princeton is cream of the crop academically but there are a few schools such as the above that are also top tier but with much stronger football.  I wonder if he realized there are too many educational compromises to be made as an athlete even at a top tier P5 school.

Recruiting, especially QBs, Catchers, Point Guards...maybe SSs are a little different than other positions.  Sorta one-slot-per-school per recruiting cycle.  And then there's the mutual interest thing, the "fits our system" thing and a few others - those other schools probably were locked into someone else who fit all of the above.

justbaseball posted:
Smitty28 posted:

I wonder how it came down to those two schools.  Good enough for Alabama, but Stanford, Notre Dame, Vanderbilt or Duke are not in the mix?  Surely Princeton is cream of the crop academically but there are a few schools such as the above that are also top tier but with much stronger football.  I wonder if he realized there are too many educational compromises to be made as an athlete even at a top tier P5 school.

Recruiting, especially QBs, Catchers, Point Guards...maybe SSs are a little different than other positions.  Sorta one-slot-per-school per recruiting cycle.  And then there's the mutual interest thing, the "fits our system" thing and a few others - those other schools probably were locked into someone else who fit all of the above.

Yeah, good point.  The schools pick the kid too.

Brevin White did not choose Princeton over Alabama. He choose Princeton over Arizona State, Boise State, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Fresno State, Memphis State, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and Washington State. All these programs made offers. 

At the last minute, desperate for an additional QB recruit Alabama tried to poach White from Princeton after he made a commitment and was accepted ED. Alabama was probably thinking what the hell is a football player thinking going to an Ivy? We’re Alabama. This will be easy. 

White gave Alabama the courtesy of a visit. If I’m a college recruit or the sensible parent I look at who has been recruiting me and ask what’s wrong with this picture? Why is the #1 program in the country contacting me at the last minute when none of the top programs have been interested in the past? And if Alabama is  trying to poach me as a committed recruit who says with this level of ethics they won’t throw me under the bus in the future? Fortunately for White he saw the situation for what it was. He was going to be roster filling QB insurance. Alabama is now trying to poach other committed QB prospects. 

RJM posted:

Brevin White did not choose Princeton over Alabama. He choose Princeton over Arizona State, Boise State, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Fresno State, Memphis State, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and Washington State. All these programs made offers. 

At the last minute, desperate for an additional QB recruit Alabama tried to poach White from Princeton after he made a commitment and was accepted ED. Alabama was probably thinking what the hell is a football player thinking going to an Ivy? We’re Alabama. This will be easy. 

White gave Alabama the courtesy of a visit. If I’m a college recruit or the sensible parent I look at who has been recruiting me and ask what’s wrong with this picture? Why is the #1 program in the country contacting me at the last minute when none of the top programs have been interested in the past? And if Alabama is  trying to poach me as a committed recruit who says with this level of ethics they won’t throw me under the bus in the future? Fortunately for White he saw the situation for what it was. He was going to be roster filling QB insurance. Alabama is now trying to poach other committed QB prospects. 

I think you missed my point.  ASU, Boise State, Cincinnati, etc are not high academic schools so I'm not surprised he said no to them.  I was wondering why schools like Stanford, Duke, Vandy were never in the mix and Justbaseball reminded me that recruiting is a two-sided coin.  I get your point about Alabama and I agree.

Smitty28 posted:
RJM posted:

Brevin White did not choose Princeton over Alabama. He choose Princeton over Arizona State, Boise State, Cincinnati, Colorado State, Fresno State, Memphis State, Oregon, Tennessee, Utah, Washington and Washington State. All these programs made offers. 

At the last minute, desperate for an additional QB recruit Alabama tried to poach White from Princeton after he made a commitment and was accepted ED. Alabama was probably thinking what the hell is a football player thinking going to an Ivy? We’re Alabama. This will be easy. 

White gave Alabama the courtesy of a visit. If I’m a college recruit or the sensible parent I look at who has been recruiting me and ask what’s wrong with this picture? Why is the #1 program in the country contacting me at the last minute when none of the top programs have been interested in the past? And if Alabama is  trying to poach me as a committed recruit who says with this level of ethics they won’t throw me under the bus in the future? Fortunately for White he saw the situation for what it was. He was going to be roster filling QB insurance. Alabama is now trying to poach other committed QB prospects. 

I think you missed my point.  ASU, Boise State, Cincinnati, etc are not high academic schools so I'm not surprised he said no to them.  I was wondering why schools like Stanford, Duke, Vandy were never in the mix and Justbaseball reminded me that recruiting is a two-sided coin.  I get your point about Alabama and I agree.

Academics aside none of them are top shelf football programs. Washington could possibly be returning to prominence. He probably is not the kind of prospect a Stanford, or similar would recruit. 

Then out of nowhere, at the last moment Alabama appears. It’s probably more of a recruiting numbers game than he was likely to ever get on the field there. 

In the age of high school football players Tweeting out each and every offer they get even AFTER they sign, I applaud  the young man. Many kids would pull out of their commitment and choose a "better football program" over a better school. This kid or his parents see the true value of an Ivy League education and decided against chasing the fantasy as a roster fill out on a national championship perennial contender.    

Proof this was never about anything but depth ...

Update on the situation: Alabama is now so desperate for one more QB on their depth chart they are pursuing a graduate school transfer from East Carolina. The guy has almost no shot of ever seeing the field. Brevin White made the right decision.

nxt lvl posted:

In the age of high school football players Tweeting out each and every offer they get even AFTER they sign, I applaud  the young man. Many kids would pull out of their commitment and choose a "better football program" over a better school. This kid or his parents see the true value of an Ivy League education and decided against chasing the fantasy as a roster fill out on a national championship perennial contender.    

An Ivy League education will get a person a lot of contacts to advance their career, and that's really about the only advantage they have over many other colleges.

In some ways an ivy education can be a detriment to a person's overall understanding of the world and of morality. 

A lot comes down to what a person finds to be ultimately important. 

FTR: I don't find football to be ultimately important either. 

Teaching Elder posted

In some ways an ivy education can be a detriment to a person's overall understanding of the world and of morality. 

 

This is a pretty bold statement.  Can you support this statement with specifics and contrast it with an increased level of overall understanding of the world and of morality available at other higher education institutions that are considered high academic?

"An Ivy League education will get a person a lot of contacts to advance their career, and that's really about the only advantage they have over many other colleges."

A 100 mph fastball will get a person a lot of [opportunities] to advance their career, and that's really about the only advantage they have over many other [players].

Yup.

If the point was, a person can get a great education at many schools, that is correct. But, I don't know if you are aware of some actual graduation requirements which really put an exclamation point on their studies. EVERY student writes a one semester junior paper which prepares him/her for the capstone senior year thesis. The senior thesis is a year long independent novel research paper (over and above from senior year course requirements). I have included the two senior year thesis' from my kids - can you guess which was the baseball player and which wasn't? imageimage

Employers are fully cognizant of these papers; most other schools don't require that EVERY student complete one to graduate.

If the point was meant to assert that contacts aren't really that important, I disagree. For example, an engineering grad (or any other discipline) who has a great idea has immediate access to her/his contacts; those contacts may be financial, engineering, legal or any other field needed to take the idea into practice; one contact directs to another contact throughout the network. Princeton, in particular, makes those contacts available EVERY year through its weeklong graduation ceremonies. During that week, EVERY graduating class participates in not only a huge parade, but also several nights of partying on campus in what is reputedly the largest beer drinking fest outside of NASCAR. This means that Princeton takes great pains to weave every graduate into its network; new graduates are free to, encouraged to, and do mingle with older graduates knowing that he/she can call that graduate for help. That is one component of its "secret sauce."

There were many aspects of Princeton's educational experience I wasn't fond of; but at the end of the sausage making process, the output was superb.

 

 

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This may be mixing apples and oranges, so forgive me.

Sitting at HS football game once, a good friend asked me if I'd rather be the starting shortstop at Vassar or the kicker at USC.  I thought about it so long I got confused and couldn't find my way to a clear answer.  At halftime he said, "C'mon, tell me.  What's your answer?"  I stuttered out, "Kicker at USC?"  He laughed and said "You're missing the point."  I'm still trying to figure out what the point is, but I did dimly understand he thought shortstop at Vassar was a better answer.

9and7dad posted:
Teaching Elder posted

In some ways an ivy education can be a detriment to a person's overall understanding of the world and of morality. 

 

This is a pretty bold statement.  Can you support this statement with specifics and contrast it with an increased level of overall understanding of the world and of morality available at other higher education institutions that are considered high academic?

Sure thing.  Two words, Peter Singer.  

Extra-credit: Brown University Sex Week.

 

Teaching Elder posted:
9and7dad posted:
Teaching Elder posted

In some ways an ivy education can be a detriment to a person's overall understanding of the world and of morality. 

 

This is a pretty bold statement.  Can you support this statement with specifics and contrast it with an increased level of overall understanding of the world and of morality available at other higher education institutions that are considered high academic?

Sure thing.  Two words, Peter Singer.  

Extra-credit: Brown University Sex Week.

 

I usually avoid this kind of thing but couldn't one come up with examples like that at a wide variety of colleges?  I don't think extremes (if that's how you want to consider them) are only found at Ivy League schools.

"Brown University's Sexual Health Education and Empowerment Council (SHEEC) invites you to our 8th Annual Sex Week: LIBER8 | CELEBR8! Our full calendar with details on event, time and location is available at: http://tinyurl.com/SexWeek17.

During Sex Week 2017, SHEEC will be exploring the ways in which our bodies, identities, and sexualities are scrutinized, censored, and denied. By holding workshops regarding a variety of issues such as the exotification of womxn of color, media representation of trans and non-binary bodies, sex worker rights, asexual and poly sexual identities, mental health and sex, STI destigmatization, and much, much more, we hope to LIBER8 ourselves from the silence and stigma, EDUC8 each other on issues that matter to our friends, family, peers, and strangers, and finally CELEBR8 our differences as a form of resistance.

As an organization, SHEEC encourages people from all identities, backgrounds and experiences to attend our programming during Sex Week in order to obtain information and resources on gender, sexuality, and sexual health. Inquiries related to SHEEC and/or Sex Week can be sent to AskSHEEC@gmail.com. We also have selected venues for our events on Brown University's campus providing as much accessibility as possible to attendees. If you would like us to provide any ADA accommodations at any of our events during Sex Week, please don’t hesitate to message us up to 48 hours in advance of our events!

Any members of press/media/online publications who are interested in covering our events must contact AskSHEEC@gmail.com prior to March 18, 2017. Unauthorized audio and/or video recordings are not permitted at any of our events."

Scandalous, just scandalous that college kids should be exposed VOLUNTARILY to "workshops regarding a variety of issues such as the exotification of womxn [sic] of color, media representation of trans and non-binary bodies, sex worker rights, asexual and poly sexual identities, mental health and sex, STI destigmatization, and much, much more." 

smokeminside posted:
Teaching Elder posted:
9and7dad posted:
Teaching Elder posted

In some ways an ivy education can be a detriment to a person's overall understanding of the world and of morality. 

 

This is a pretty bold statement.  Can you support this statement with specifics and contrast it with an increased level of overall understanding of the world and of morality available at other higher education institutions that are considered high academic?

Sure thing.  Two words, Peter Singer.  

Extra-credit: Brown University Sex Week.

 

I usually avoid this kind of thing but couldn't one come up with examples like that at a wide variety of colleges?  I don't think extremes (if that's how you want to consider them) are only found at Ivy League schools.

***There you go.  Again proof that writing about something (Brown Sex Week) which I know nothing about is never a good idea.

A quick google would reveal that at least 15-20 universities have had "sex week" type programs.  Three of them on the list I found were Ivies, of the possible 8 schools.  Others included state universities such as Universities of Maryland, Tennessee, Kentucky, Michigan and Minnesota.  I wonder if all schools in the SEC, Big 10, etc. are detrimental? 

In regards to professors with views well outside what one might consider the more mainstream, the Ivy hardly has that market cornered in higher education. 

A recent study showed the ratio of Democrat professors to Republican professors is 11.5 to 1. In the northeast it’s 28 to 1. There are reasons to believe this could be an issue. If a kid doesn’t think for himself he could get a left leaning brainwashing in college. The more top tier the school the more likely to be loaded with Democrat professors. 

As young adults my kids are registered Republicans. Ideologically they’re right leaning Libertarians. In college they decided play along, tell the professors what they want to hear and take the A. It didn’t change the quality of the education they received. In fact, it probably helped them to think through the debate away from class. 

My daughter wasn’t penalized for her political views. She was a member of the Young Republicans. She was still named editor of the Law Review.

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