Pro Scouts Vs College Scouts

What's the question being asked here?

FYI there is no such thing as a college scout.

 

The question is why do pro scouts take notice or seem interested while college coaches show no apparent interest?

5tools22,

IMHO,

 This could be a good sign. maybe your son might get picked up right out of high school.

is he a RHP.. LHP...? throwing 95+ mph..?  

Maybe college coaches dont want to sign him knowing he could be pulled in by a MLB scout.

Good Luck...

 

Throwing a Joke here ... the only scouts looking at my son right now are girl scouts asking him to buy cookies...  just joking....  

 

Honestly no, he's a young outfielder for a 2915 graduate at 16 years old and not even filled in yet but his legs are solid and he squats more than 2x body weight easily...he throws only about 85 from OF but he has always had incredibly good carry and accuracy on his throws and on a line no rainbow, no bounce...other guys were hitting 90+ and he looked just as good with the eyeball test...

One thing he does exceptionally well is run...his 60 time is not top tier but his 20 is...I timed him more than once at under 4 seconds HTF from right side and 3.2 1st to  second...

In last showcase he pulled off something rare...stole 5 bases in 1 inning pinch running...3 were off pickoff moves...and he also stole home off a pitcher who was near upper 80s / low 90s (no passed ball)...this all happened in about 15 min stretch , which I assume they have probably not seen before too often...

He can hit and has good bat speed but most showcases are limite on hitting except BP...usually makes solid line drive contact but he is not built to hit HRs.

 

I don't know if anyone here could answer that question. But, if your son has the desire to play baseball in college, I'd suggest taking a proactive approach to set himself up in the best case scenario possible.

 

Thanks,

I often wonder if pro scouts have different perspective looking several years down the road while college coaches are looking for someone game ready now today...who can contribute within a year

 

Not to the extent that there would be no attention being given if there is legitimate attention from pro scouts.

 

Also, I don't mean to nitpick, but 3.2 seconds on a steal is not "top tier" either…but sub-4.0 seconds to 1B from the right side is. Those numbers simply don't match up.

 

As I said, being proactive is the best approach in all realms of this game. Sitting back and waiting for attention won't benefit the majority of players hoping to play at the collegiate level.

 

That's totally cool , appreciate the feedback...he sent out some letters and videos and two D1s and one DIII followed up showing some interest...

BTW what is fast 1st to 2nd?

It seems like he has the tools for the next level.Speed, Batting, etc. Almost sounds like my son who is going to be a senior... 2015..

 What schools does your son has his radar on ? local schools, out of state...east coast, west coast...?  are you going to any school camps or just showcase stuff...PG , etc...

Is he getting his info out to coaches and schools that he is interested in.? 

Dont wait for that knock on your front door... 

Good :Luck

 

Like JH said above 'Be Proactive'

Mostly looking at Ivy Schools and Academics Schools including military academies...he has received academic letters from Princeton, Harvard and Westpoint...been talking to westpoint baseball coaches...honestly I don't know how he measures up to their current talent or needs...but it's worth a try...he is also very interested in West coast schools and likes several out there too...I think we need to attend a couple camps and get a real honest eval to see if he needs to refine his search or division level aspirations...he can play and always shows well in games, but he is not a huge kid so sometimes he doesn't fit the prototype profile some schools seem to look for

Many times the "pro scouts" at showcases are not real scouts. You have to understand how showcases work. They are a fundraiser for some organization. In order to look legit, there are stand in "scouts." They are there to get your attention. If parents attend showcases and do not see guys that look like "scouts", they wont attend....which means no money for the showcase.  

Depending on when you attended these events  many times college coaches are not allowed to talk to players or their parents due to NCAA rules. Sometimes if they are extremely interested in a player they will contact someone close to the player to relay a message to call them.  Until a certain date they can't call you, but you can call them.  I know this all sounds silly, but it is the way it works.  So don't be surprised when they don't talk to you.  MLB scouts do not have to follow those rules and can talk to anyone they want at any time.

Just a pet peeve of mine but there are no "college scouts"...they are college coaches.

 

***Edit - I see the esteemed JH made the same comment.

I have no idea what this means and I've been to several showcases.  What are "stand in scouts"?

I call anyone Looking a scout. I call college coaches recruiters After they have contacted player and are actively recruiting them to play. Semantics, loosen up, no big thing. 

I would advise u to get him in front of schools he truly is interested in. If he's a sr. Has been to showcases and not gotten any real D1 interest, start looking at D2 and lower. 85 OF velocity is average, his speed helps, but u need to be Very Good hitter to make up for OF velocity. Base stealing is diff at HS level against good catchers vs college level with some great catchers. Schools won't recruit a base stealer only, must hAve other strong skills. Basically, it all comes down to hitting. 

Good luck

I know a guy that was drafted and never spoke to a college coach.  He has plus plus speed, a pretty good oppo swing, and can foul off pitches.

Actually, it isn't semantics.  It's called accuracy.

 

I'm sure they all cook at home but I don't call them chefs.

 

Definitions of scout-as a verb

1. To explore carefully to obtain information

2.  To observe and evaluate

3.  Look for suitably talented people for recruitment to ones own organization

 

IMO whether it's pro or college they r there for same reason-evaluate and find players

 

First of all you guys are all great and I enjoy the dialog.

 

There are some helpful comments here, and some fun dialog about Scout Definition.

 

Top be honest, I dont care what either is called.  The baseball coaches/scouts etc.  At the end of the day I am more interested in understanding why a pro team would show interest in my kid and not a college team.  maybe a better way to put it.

 

Now to catch up on a few comments.

 

I really dont care if my son pays D1 (nor is he set on that).  We are more worried about him finding the right academic fit where he can still play ball.  His grades are high and test scores good too.  He wil have a complete year of college done already when he graduates HS. 

 

In my opinion, being so young he is an ideal candidate to Redshirt while he grows and matures as a player.  In the meantime he can finish his 1st year of college.  Hopefully some coach will see this situation as a plus.  Because of his age, he can continue to also paly 18u PG events for two more summers until hhe is a softmore in college (if that is allowed).  He has already been successfully starting/playing Competitive 18u since he was 14/15 so in a couple years he should show real well.

 

As for the velo, I realize 85 is not earth shattering, but he is only 5'10 150 lbs right now and all legs strength so I think its feasible he can hit 90 eventually with some work and added muscle.  He does have a stick and very fast hands and does well against higher level pitching, but he is truly not a HR hitter (nor are many of us) but he can drive both gaps on a regular basis with wood or metal despite his size. 

 

Im thinking we narrow his search to 3 west coast and 3 east coast schools and go from there.  If they are not interested, he still has a great opportunity academically to do well. 

 

Perhaps a smaller school to play ball is OK too for a year or two, but eventually I think he would need to transfer to meet his full academic potential.

 

The college coaches who have responded mentioned he has skillls they value in thier program, and his video was intriguing and they want to see more if him...Nothing to get overly excited about, but at least they took the time to respond in a personal email and not a form letter. 

To address a few points, briefly:

 

-I don't know what a "stand in scout" is. 

 

-It's not semantics. There is no such thing as a college scout. There are college coaches and pro scouts. It's a job title. I know folks here don't care what they're called, but scouts and coaches do.

 

5tools22:

Coaches stress pitchers to be sub-1.3 to home plate, and catchers at the professional level are generally sub-2.0 pop times. So, a stolen base under 3.3 is considered above average. 3.2 would be a good time, but does not equate with a sub-4.0 home-to-1st time for a RHH, which is elite. Scouts don't grade stolen base times but I'd imagine a 3.2 would be a "60" on the 20-80 scouting scale, while a sub-4.0 RHH is an "80."

 

It's good to see you're already being somewhat proactive. Don't worry about his future potential to redshirt or where he falls in with regard to age eligibility outside of college. College coaches will decide on redshirts and, frankly, age eligibility outside of their program is not of concern to them. 

 

Due to your son's academic qualifications, I'd suggest broadening your initial search to include all schools in which you feel he may be a fit, and then begin narrowing as particular desired academic programs and athletic caliber becomes more apparent. I know someone that went through a medical redshirt and attended a different school than undergrad for his 5th year of eligibility to obtain a Master's degree, and he reached out directly to 81 different schools with interest. A half dozen or so came back with reciprocated interest. It's sometimes a tough process but in the end, if done properly, maximizing the benefits to the player works out well.

 

 

This is correct, however if your son has entered his senior year and gotten no college interest, that most likely means he hasn't been seen by the right college coaches.

 

Keep in mind that there are different type of scouts, ones that are paid by the organization and ones that are known as bird dogs, they scout under an area scout who can't be everywhere and get a fee if they turn in a player that gets drafted.

JH can correct me if I am wrong, but always ask for the scouts biz card for clarification.

JH:

 

Very nice input, Thanks a bunch.

 

I'll check some film and verify some times.  Certainly stopwatch human error can easilly be up to 0.25 sec, but i was lucky enough to tape a bunch in HD and can actually get some really accurate times reviewing on tape.  The HTF was done at HS as a Softmore, and they were consistently getting 3.92, which seemed a little unbelievable to me, but he does exit the box very quickly because he has a very short quick swing.  I spent a few dollars on a trainer for a couple months this spring to work him out because my expertise and time avaialabe had run out.  They timed him in 10 and 20 yards per my request and got 1.6 in 10 yards  with best of 1.48, and 2.7 in 20 yards with best of 2.52.  His strength is short burst, his 60 is not that impressive, but he can steal you blind if you are not careful.  Very disruptive to pitchers

 

As for the school search, I agree we have a standard package and have only sent out about 20, but 3 responded personally with custom written emails and about 7 others sent cookie cutter standard form emails to come to camp.  So...I guess if we sent out a bunch more, the numbers game could produce some more favorable results.

 

On another note my son just called me 30 min ago and said he recieved a e-mail from a coach who saw his profile online and liked his video footage and they offered to bring him out on a paid visit if he is interested.  Pretty cool and exciting for him, and a start to hopefully opening up some options.  Niot his school of choice, but at least getting some interest and options!  Interesting timing

I've only seen one time better than a 3.92 from a RHH in my time covering multiple levels of professional and amateur baseball. I don't believe it's impossible for a high school sophomore to run a 3.92, but it's pretty close to impossible. 

 

Coaches won't really be able to get a gauge of those times because in baseball, speed is judged based on H-1 times and 60 yard times. I'd suggest sticking with those.

 

Also - not to sound rude - but why did you start this thread if your son has been in contact with college coaches already?

 

Keep grinding and keep being proactive. Things will work out.

 

Ask the next college coach you see if he is a scout or a coach.  Good luck with that.

JH:

 

He just got contacted today.  The other emails were in response to letters and videos he sent out, not a result of showcases.  I started the thread because I wanted to understand what the pro guys were seeing that that the college guys weren't.  Thought it might help him figure out what he needs to do to get more college attention at showcases because his goal is to go to college and play ball while there. 

 

We will keep after it. 

 

Thanks!

 

 

Gotcha, no worries. Keep working hard and good things will come. Keep us posted.