Push-off with the back leg???

There are lot of things you do not see!!!!

I don't see it either.

You don't see it because you don't do it. Same as pitching. Anyone who says you do is lacking knowledge.

The back leg push is just one other style of hitting.

The real power generation is the cantilever effect of the upper body.

This even allows a one legged batter to hit reasonably.

The last clip I believe shows a push. Watch the knee it will load. I believe that this is what is being described as a back leg push.

I don't pretend to know a lot about hitting, but I am an engineer. A body at rest does not magically start moving forward as all of these video clips show....so tell me how does this happen....

A batter in his stance is not a body at rest.

The stance establishes an amount of potential energy.

The most efficient direction of that potential energy would be downward, as affected by gravity.

The swing employs a certain amount of motion established by the hips which due to string tension causes the bat head to travel in a somewhat circular path.

quote:

Originally posted by BlueDog:
There's been alot of talk lately about MLB hitters pushing off from the ground with the back leg....

Where's the push-off from the ground with the back leg?..I don't see it...

Looks like the back foot is being dragged forward to me...

If there is a push-off with the back leg, the back toe would be dug in, not being dragged up and forward and even getting airborne........

Now, something is pushing/pulling the backside, but, I sure don't see a push-off from the ground....

I see the back toe being pulled, instead...

Blue,

I push with my back leg from the time my front foot hits the ground until my belly button gets to the direction of the blow. Once the hands start forward after the elbow slots, the back leg will be pulled forward from the power of rotation. The more the up swing or the more out front the ball is struck (either or) will dictate how far the back foot will move and in what direction. I believe Lee and Pujols both do what I do. As far as Mays goes, the combination of and upward swing, inside pitch and his big lunge or dive forward caused his foot to leave the ground that much in the clip shown, IMO. I can't tell much from the clip of Manny, since it is later in the swing before it starts. I believe you can push, pull, or turn your hips open, some even use a combination of two or all three of those.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
A batter in his stance is not a body at rest.

The stance establishes an amount of potential energy.

Huh......It is obvious you do not understand physics. OK I will simplify this.

Any movement of a batter (body at rest) has to be offset by a force that must be applied through his feet.

There is no pushing with the back leg. What it does do is collapse slighly to set up support for the upper body rotation. It is similsr to pitching. The back foot is pulled fprward by the hip rotation. To try and leave it back would impede the hips.
If the back leg pushed it would make it hard to hit a ball and the upper body would lung foward instead of staying back.

I agree with BOF. The feet stay planted as much as possible to create the base for the rotation of the upper body. The lower body is a stablizer or folcrum around which the upper body is developing max force . Yes there will be some movement but no pushing.
The force applied to the feet is the counter reaction to the rotation of the upper body.

quote:

Originally posted by BobbleheadDoll:
There is no pushing with the back leg. What it does do is collapse slighly to set up support for the upper body rotation. It is similsr to pitching. The back foot is pulled fprward by the hip rotation. To try and leave it back would impede the hips.
If the back leg pushed it would make it hard to hit a ball and the upper body would lung foward instead of staying back.

I push with my back leg, it is after the hips start to open and as the front leg starts to firm up and the glute helps to pull the hips around. The front leg being on the ground and solid, keeps the body from moving forward. If you push a person on a swing, the swingset doesn't move but the swing moves around the bar to which it is attached. It is the same principal. If your hips stayed closed, you would move forward even if both feet were on the ground. This is how many young hitters start out and have to be taught to use their hips.

Tim Lincicum pushes with his back leg early and late, most just push late (if they push) to get over their front leg and to complete the hip turn. Some people characterize this as "the hips thrusting backwards". IMO, one hip does, but the other thrusts forward. Many Lefties don't complete this back hip thrust and that is why they don't usually throw as hard and why they have so much natural tail on their fastball.

OK this is getting dangerous - a pitching guy wallowing with the hitters. I am going to go with PTOF as far as explainations of what is going on. I can add some physics and see if it makes sense.

The guy who taught my son to hit always said.

1. Hit off a firm front foot.
2. Hips lead the swing and create power.

Now if all of this is true and PTOF is correct then the physics would work as follows:

Looking down from above on a right handed hitter the swing MUST be initiated with the rear foot which would drive the right front hip to accelerate, this is the only way to initiate the swing as this is the only place the force can be applied to get the hip moving. The left front hip then is rotating back against the front foot which has to be pushing back otherwise the whole body goes into forward motion. The forces would have to be equal and opposite to generate rotation and if one is less than the other then the body begins to move in the direction of the lesser force. (if you assume a symetrical body)

Obviously there is all kinds of other stuff going on but the basic physics have to be as I have described as there is no other way to get the hips moving.

The bottom up approach is great if the batter is swinging upwards.

A good swing takes advantage of the raised bat and casts it down through the zone.

A batter can apply all the movements of the swing (weight shift, swing and hip turn) while standing on one leg.

quote:

(weight shift, swing and hip turn) while standing on one leg.

Weight shift if he jumps up, back, or forward. You can certainly swing and turn your hips while standing on one leg, but weight shift??? From where to where?

On one leg, weight shift can be felt from shoulder to shoulder.

Afterall, the machinations of the swing have the sole objective of producing bat speed.

Keeping the swing simple to its most productive movements creates the quickest swing to perform as well as producing the most bat speed.

If you are pushing with your back leg, you are performing in a more linear style. Though effective quite often with adequate hip turn, it takes longer to perform the swing.

There are many styles to swing a bat, some take more time, some produce more bat speed.

quote:

Originally posted by Quincy:
On one leg, weight shift can be felt from shoulder to shoulder.

Afterall, the machinations of the swing have the sole objective of producing bat speed.

Keeping the swing simple to its most productive movements creates the quickest swing to perform as well as producing the most bat speed.

If you are pushing with your back leg, you are performing in a more linear style. Though effective quite often with adequate hip turn, it takes longer to perform the swing.

There are many styles to swing a bat, some take more time, some produce more bat speed.

So...what would you say Mays is doing?

Mays is using a linear style. His entire body is moving on a line to contact with the addition of hip turn.

quote:

If you are pushing with your back leg, you are performing in a more linear style. Though effective quite often with adequate hip turn, it takes longer to perform the swing.

Since I am reading the pitch while pushing with my back leg. How can it be taking longer? I am also creating more stretch between upper and lower body...which creates more batspeed.