Recruiting the "mid-tier" player

Good grades and test scores +1,  so start with higher academic schools and really search out academic $$ together with what his desired major is. 

Some more info for better help.

1. Desired major.

2. Preferred location in country.

3. Does he have a list of safe, stretch, and mid schools? If not make one. D"X" does not matter so make sure his list includes D1,2,3 levels. 

4. Get a reliable independent assessment of his skill level and projection (as far as baseball)

As TPM always says " Schools recruit players, not the other way around" but players do let schools know they are interested so get your list started and read up here on how to start communicating with them.

Good Luck!

 

Your son sounds a lot like mine....good numbers, good grades, but a little small to be getting serious "early" looks, so you're right, this summer will be the prime recruiting time for him.  Showcases, emails, camps etc are all fine and we did them all.  Then the summer after his junior year son got to play for a well known travel organization, and it was on what they considered their "B" team...though they were actually fairly close talent wise.  He started getting college attention the first week....a couple as a MIF and a couple as a P and committed the 2nd week of July.  Is your son on a team that will get him in tournaments where he'll be seen?   Your profile says Mid-South.  Will get be at WWBA?   Music City?  etc.  He should be seen by enough coaches at those kinds of events to get you some interest.  

You mention $$$ on recruiting services....at this point, if you've done emails, camps, showcases, etc.....stop throwing money at that part of your equation....it's not going to do you any good.  Put it toward some winter workouts and save the rest for any visits you may make this summer.

Good luck!! 

Thanks for the replies BOF and Buckeye. One of the struggles we have from an academic perspective is that he isn't sure what he wants to study so using that as a decision point is difficult. He does have some preferred locations but if the right opportunity came along I suspect there are factors that would outweigh this. We definitely need to complete the list of schools BOF mentioned and have been working on that for the past few months.

As far as summer team goes., he has played the last two summers with the local installment of a reputable national organization but not on what they would term their "elite" team or whatever similar designation indicates top of the talent pool. They went to Memphis, Lubbock, and a few venues in AR last summer. We will be exploring other summer options for better exposure with this summer being pivotal, although he really likes the guys and coaches he's played with for the past two years. Thanks again for the insight!

If he (and your family) wants him to stay in the mid-south make sure you add Emory and a few other top D3 programs to your list. (which there are many in your area) My son got a degree in engineering and we were looking at mostly D1 programs until very late in the process and we both wished we had looked at Emory and maybe a few other programs on his list.  One thing to consider is that it is much more fun playing for a winning D3 program than a perennial losing D1 program. My son went to 4 straight regionals and conf tournaments,  and one CWS and those experiences can never be duplicated. Birmingham Southern, Millsaps, Rhodes, all field very competitive baseball teams and some have excellent academics as well and have significant academic $$ available.  We spent months looking over schools in our research process in US News, Fiske, Princeston, etc and the process will help him figure out what fits him best. 

Good Luck, and keep asking questions as there is tremendous experience here at all levels and regions. 

I have a similar question about my 2020.

-6'1 215

-I don't have a 60 time 7.3-4 ?

-Position Velocity 78

-R-R, OF 1b (pitches on summer team but would not in college)  

-Exit velo 97 (no kidding); outstanding hitter

-GPA 3.95 (advanced AP courses ).  Practice test scores indicate  28-30 on the ACT / 1250 SAT. He is probably going to study engineering or biology (does not want to be a physician though)

We are getting the best outside training in our area in hitting, throwing mechanics and speed/agility.  And the summer teams practices twice a week.  

All sounds good, right? However, we committed to a team with a handful of his HS teammates that is with a good local organization (their B team) that has good training but the schedule really will not result in much exposure.   HS team and coach are not going to be much help. 

Should we just try to play some with better teams who might do a PG, WWBA or other high exposure or look to get picked up by a better team now?  Has anyone had success getting D1 exposure playing on an average team?  I suppose we could do a college showcase and get some numbers out there.  Or would it be better just to pick a few schools show up to their camps and see if he gets noticed?     

2020.2023dad posted:

I have a similar question about my 2020.

-6'1 215

-I don't have a 60 time 7.3-4 ?

-Position Velocity 78

-R-R, OF 1b (pitches on summer team but would not in college)  

-Exit velo 97 (no kidding); outstanding hitter

-GPA 3.95 (advanced AP courses ).  Practice test scores indicate  28-30 on the ACT / 1250 SAT. He is probably going to study engineering or biology (does not want to be a physician though)

We are getting the best outside training in our area in hitting, throwing mechanics and speed/agility.  And the summer teams practices twice a week.  

All sounds good, right? However, we committed to a team with a handful of his HS teammates that is with a good local organization (their B team) that has good training but the schedule really will not result in much exposure.   HS team and coach are not going to be much help. 

Should we just try to play some with better teams who might do a PG, WWBA or other high exposure or look to get picked up by a better team now?  Has anyone had success getting D1 exposure playing on an average team?  I suppose we could do a college and get some numbers out there.  Or would it be better just to pick a few schools show up to their camps and see if he gets noticed?     

My son is one who wants to play with friends and our team has been average in the past. He has gotten very little exposure with the team.  That said, we have made a lot of effort to get him seen at showcases and college camps.  It is working.  He is talking to the schools he is interested in and several are top D1 programs.  That said, we've had to spend quite a bit of money traveling to PBR and PG showcases and have done camps at the schools he really wants to attend.  We also spend a good amount of time engaging and sending video and then following up before camps.

baseballhs posted:

 

 

My son is one who wants to play with friends and our team has been average in the past. He has gotten very little exposure with the team.  That said, we have made a lot of effort to get him seen at showcases and college camps.  It is working.  He is talking to the schools he is interested in and several are top D1 programs.  That said, we've had to spend quite a bit of money traveling to PBR and PG showcases and have done camps at the schools he really wants to attend.  We also spend a good amount of time engaging and sending video and then following up before camps.

Thanks for the response BBHS.   Which PG/PBR Showcases did you attend, if you don't mind sharing?  

In the fall we picked a school he was interested in and went to their prospect  camp (about 400 miles round trip).  Only a 12 players, half of which had offers (4 commits) -- good experience.   We had to pay for the camp ($100) but should I expect that we won't have to pay if asked back or do we pay?

My younger son is on a top national team and goes to PG (Lakepointe), and PBR in another state a total of 7 times next summer so I'd like to get him to one of those playing on another team.  Is that something you have tried?  Wondering if I just contact other coaches on teams we know about and offering to roster to potentially make take a better team with a better approach for next year or just ride out the summer before junior year make it to showcases etc.   

 

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  is around the corner from your house I say why not go. 

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  means hundreds or thousands of dollars to be seen by schools that your kid likely won't have the ability to be recruited by, then what's the point of going?

It's cool to say my son played in all the great tourneys, but you have to think what the end goal is.  Do you think your kid is better off playing in front of Auburn, UGA, and Alabama for a big chunk of change, or is he better off playing at a camp for $100-$150 with the exact people he is trying to impress?

Thx for the response.  Our goal isnt to play at those schools. Our goal is to attend and play at a higher academic school in the midwest.  D1 or D3 school. Probably not a power 5 type conference.   

My understanding is PG scores and rankings are important to getting  visits, not scout/coach   exposure which are hit or miss on average teams.  In our area there are 4-5 2021s committed to top schools like Duke Vanderbit and Clemson. There are 25 or so 2019s and 2020s going to top 25 type schols. What these kids seem have in common was elite summer team “brand” and  PG exposure, but not college tournament visits (I asked many of their parents or looked at their schedules)

Is what you are saying that the top choice schools recruit at these events schools but others dont so focus on just local events?  What I assumed was mid tier schools also look at PG numbers and scout their events, but get the scraps.  

 

Tequila. Great first post. My son was a 2017 catcher. His size and stats were very close your sons: same height but he's now 185 (lots of weights in college; was 175). A tad faster in 60, a little slower exit speed, but all very similar. So, perhaps your son will continue to grow (mine stopped about sophomore year).

We did the camps, hitting lessons, catcher lessons, travel baseball, etc. Great experience but costly (but we could afford it). I realize my son had no shot playing D1, and that D2 and D3 was his target. But only one D2 school in VA and very small and very far away. In short, he did not have a good first day at the D3 school he really wanted to go to (1 of 6 catchers, they took one). He did really well at a D3 school he did not really want to go to. He went to a large D1 in-state school, my alma mater, and loves it. No baseball. He'll play for his men's wood bat league again summer 2018. Life is good. Enjoy the ride.

For a catcher, they want to see SIZE and positional velo, pop-time, and power. My son ran a 6.96 60 and nobody cared. He was a blocking/picking machine, great leader, and lefty line drive hitter (yawn). He was 5'10" 175. Not trying to be discouraging, just realistic. It is important to realize and manage expectations and proceed accordingly. Best of luck!

CaCO3Girl posted:

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  is around the corner from your house I say why not go. 

If the *insert name of fancy tourney here*  means hundreds or thousands of dollars to be seen by schools that your kid likely won't have the ability to be recruited by, then what's the point of going?

It's cool to say my son played in all the great tourneys, but you have to think what the end goal is.  Do you think your kid is better off playing in front of Auburn, UGA, and Alabama for a big chunk of change, or is he better off playing at a camp for $100-$150 with the exact people he is trying to impress?

Not sure about the "Auburn/UGA/Alabama" portion of your post....and this goes back to 2020DAD's question in his last post.    The WWBA isn't only those types of schools.....far from it.  You have hundreds of schools from all levels from D1 down to NAIA at that event.  My son's team at 17U  (B-team of a good organization) had more kids get serious contact from the WWBA than they had all summer at other events....and we played in high exposure events.  I really believe that if it wasn't for that event, 4 or 5 kids on his team wouldn't have ended up playing college ball.   Yes, the "big boys" are there....looking for the studs, but most of that is done at the 15U/16U WWBA's now.....by the time this year's 17U rolls around (2019's) there will be plenty of guys there that know they didn't get the Top 100/200 guys and are looking to fill out their 2019 classes. 

2020DAD and Tequila....just an FYI........the starting catcher for my son's D-1 is a senior this year.....listed at 5-9, 156....the 156 may be right, but the 5-9 is at giving him at least 2" lol.  Great catcher....solid line drive hitter with a good arm.  My son is a pitcher and absolutely loves having the kid behind the plate

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed to this thread. It's been very helpful. Much in line with my expectations, there are varying degrees and opinions on most things and some strong similarities on certain topics in this thread. To Batty's point about size, I have heard that from time to time from coaches, parents, and former players, specifically in relation to big D1 schools for the most part. Then I hear comments like the one from Buckeye, and watch players like Dodger C, Austin Barnes (5'10"/185) and believe there remains hope for my son. He probably won't grow vertically much more and will be pushing it to ever hit 200lbs but I try not to kill the dream for him until it's really dead, which it by no means is at this point (for playing somewhere).

Most importantly for my family, there is some level of confirmation here that I believe we're doing most of the right things given our scheduling and financial abilities as well as my son's athletic and academic position; and we're enjoying the heck out of the process by the way! The bottom line is that he wants the college experience that he has in mind and if that doesn't involve baseball then so be it. We're in for some interesting times if opportunities begin to present themselves at smaller, or more rural, locations. He'll have to make some decisions at that point as to just how important playing college baseball is.

Our 2019 was not getting much attention until late summer, and is now getting interest from many coaches in the last 6-8 weeks. We credit much of this to 3 things: 1) son moved to a better showcase team with a well-connected coach, 2) he received a strong report from a reputable scout at a showcase event, and 3) has good video to share (on youtube) in all email comms with coaches. He responds to EVERY email he receives from schools he's interested in (even the clearly non-personal/subscription ones), and always puts a link to the video. We've been amazed at how many coaches watch the video & respond.

Tequila and 2020— 

I have a 2017 pitcher that was similar in stats to your sons.  Smart kid (3.6 with a 32 ACT) and a solid baseball player — but not earth shattering in high school.  Played on a “b” team for two local high profile summer programs that traveled throughout CA and AZ for tournaments. His high school is a powerhouse with long history of producing D1 and MLB players.  My son is a late bloomer and as a result didn’t attract a lot of good D1 attention.  Maybe he was on their board, but towards the bottom of the list for his position (LHP). 

Like others, we did combination of showcases, college camps, and emails/video to schools that were on our target list.  The single biggest thing we did right was attend two camps — Headfirst and Stanford.  Without question.  Just about every college camps we went to was a result of an assistant coach seeing my son at one of the above mentioned showcases and extending interest.  

Today, my son is having a blast and seeing/feeling success at the high academic D3 he is attending in the midwest (Grinnell).  VERY early in the process but he will likely be a contributor as a freshman on the field.  As a parent, I am thrilled he used baseball to get into a high academic school that he otherwise might not have be accepted.  In addition — he is happy.  That is huge.  

I ran into one of my son’s high school teammate parents last week.  Their son played with my guy for four years.  Great kid, good baseball player, nice family. He earned a scholarship to a really solid D1 program.   I inquired how their son was doing, how fall ball went, etc…. I was surprised to hear that it was a real struggle for their son.  Lot of questions about whether he was going to ever see the filed, if the program was a going to work out, etc….   I could just tell that this past fall had been a real struggle.  The mom said to me that they just want their son to be happy and how college was only four years, etc,,,  I thanked my lucky stars that when I talk to my son — he is totally happy.  

Best advice I can give is for your boys to work as hard as they can to get better every day.   And if they keep their options open good things will open up for them.  In the meantime — checkout Headfirst especially.  Sorry for the long-winded response.   

 

 

As you are finding out there are many aspects to the recruiting game.  First of all, I would suggest ditching the recruiting service.  They are only there to make money.  Everything they do you can do yourself with a higher level of success.  

Next, I would take a long hard look at your sons travel program.  Are they known for getting kids into college?  If not then you are in the wrong program.  If they are then are you on the A or B (depending on program) team that they use to place kids?  If you are on the B(sometimes) or C team then they may be using your money to fund the recruiting efforts for the kids on the A team.  Also, do they target the level at which your son will be playing?  If your son projects mid-D1 and they seem to get kids placed at the top D1 programs, it will not help your son to be playing in this program.  Is your son getting playing time?  If not, change programs.  

The right showcase/travel program for your son will have deep contacts for colleges at the level in which he should be playing.  They will work to get you son noticed.  But don't expect them to use those contacts if they do not believe in your son.  I do not know of a program that will burn a contact for any player.  In order to remain a top program they must keep up their reputation and if they are over selling a player to a college they will tarnish that reputation.

Also, when it comes to changing showcase/travel programs, most folks tend to stay due to loyalty.  Don't become one of them.  Think of this as a business and you are the consumer.  You are paying them for a service, if there is a better place to spend your money, go there.  I know most kids want to stay with their friends and feel comfortable, but if you are truly looking to make it to the next level you will need to make the sacrifices necessary to do that.  

Finally, approach this with a plan.  I would start by putting together a recruiting video, resume and website.  If you need help with any of these, post a separate question and folks will chime in.  There is a specific format for all of these and it will help if your information follows in that format.  Not that it won't get noticed, but more attention will be paid to them if they are short and concise.  

After putting together the necessary info, its time to start contacting the colleges.  Put together a very broad list of schools that meet your sons educational needs.  Once you have that list of schools together, start to whittle them down to the schools which meets your sons athletic needs.  The list should still be very broad.   If it only contains 10 schools, its probably too small.  Once you have the list setup its time to start contacting the schools.  Every school should have a Recruiting coordinator (RC).  If there is no RC listed, contact the Head Coach (HC) Put together a nice email and send it to the RC or HC.  Your sons email should be customized for each school.  Do NOT send generic emails.  The email should have a subject line to catch their attention.  Something like "Joe Smith - 2019 - Catcher - 1.9 Pop Time".  The email should only contain a few intro lines, and a link to the recruiting video.  We would also attach the resume as well as cut and paste it at the bottom of the email.

At this point your email should have been sent out to 25+ schools.  Hopefully a few of those will show some interest and email you back.  You are probably going to get invites to camps from all of these schools.  Ignore those.  What you are looking for is a personal email to your son.  Trust me when I tell you that you will know the difference.  These emails will open up a line of communication with the school, this is what you are hoping for.  This is the point when you should start the discussion on how to get in front of them.  They will generally ask what events your son plans on attending.  They will also let you know where they will be in attendance.  You will need to find a way to get where they are (unless they are very interested and then they will find a way to get to you).  If you can get in front of them, let them know and then work with them and your sons coach (if a tourney) to make sure your son is on the field when they are around.

 

 

Tequila.....at this point in my son's junior year in HS he was probably 5'9, maybe 150....he was 5'10, 160ish when he committed the July after his junior year....started college at 6' 170 and as of last weekend when he was home he is 6'1, 197....and had been up to 203 one morning at weigh in.   He actually shocked me when he walked in last week.  He said "yeah, none of my shirts fit"

I would only echo what most of these parents said. The advice you have been given is very good. Sounds like your son should be heading toward the Hi-Acs.  Keep pushing forward. The journey is long and the road takes many turns.

joes87 posted:

As you are finding out there are many aspects to the recruiting game.  First of all, I would suggest ditching the recruiting service.  They are only there to make money.  Everything they do you can do yourself with a higher level of success.  

Next, I would take a long hard look at your sons travel program.  Are they known for getting kids into college?  If not then you are in the wrong program.  If they are then are you on the A or B (depending on program) team that they use to place kids?  If you are on the B(sometimes) or C team then they may be using your money to fund the recruiting efforts for the kids on the A team.  Also, do they target the level at which your son will be playing?  If your son projects mid-D1 and they seem to get kids placed at the top D1 programs, it will not help your son to be playing in this program.  Is your son getting playing time?  If not, change programs.  

The right showcase/travel program for your son will have deep contacts for colleges at the level in which he should be playing.  They will work to get you son noticed.  But don't expect them to use those contacts if they do not believe in your son.  I do not know of a program that will burn a contact for any player.  In order to remain a top program they must keep up their reputation and if they are over selling a player to a college they will tarnish that reputation.

Also, when it comes to changing showcase/travel programs, most folks tend to stay due to loyalty.  Don't become one of them.  Think of this as a business and you are the consumer.  You are paying them for a service, if there is a better place to spend your money, go there.  I know most kids want to stay with their friends and feel comfortable, but if you are truly looking to make it to the next level you will need to make the sacrifices necessary to do that.  

Finally, approach this with a plan.  I would start by putting together a recruiting video, resume and website.  If you need help with any of these, post a separate question and folks will chime in.  There is a specific format for all of these and it will help if your information follows in that format.  Not that it won't get noticed, but more attention will be paid to them if they are short and concise.  

After putting together the necessary info, its time to start contacting the colleges.  Put together a very broad list of schools that meet your sons educational needs.  Once you have that list of schools together, start to whittle them down to the schools which meets your sons athletic needs.  The list should still be very broad.   If it only contains 10 schools, its probably too small.  Once you have the list setup its time to start contacting the schools.  Every school should have a Recruiting coordinator (RC).  If there is no RC listed, contact the Head Coach (HC) Put together a nice email and send it to the RC or HC.  Your sons email should be customized for each school.  Do NOT send generic emails.  The email should have a subject line to catch their attention.  Something like "Joe Smith - 2019 - Catcher - 1.9 Pop Time".  The email should only contain a few intro lines, and a link to the recruiting video.  We would also attach the resume as well as cut and paste it at the bottom of the email.

At this point your email should have been sent out to 25+ schools.  Hopefully a few of those will show some interest and email you back.  You are probably going to get invites to camps from all of these schools.  Ignore those.  What you are looking for is a personal email to your son.  Trust me when I tell you that you will know the difference.  These emails will open up a line of communication with the school, this is what you are hoping for.  This is the point when you should start the discussion on how to get in front of them.  They will generally ask what events your son plans on attending.  They will also let you know where they will be in attendance.  You will need to find a way to get where they are (unless they are very interested and then they will find a way to get to you).  If you can get in front of them, let them know and then work with them and your sons coach (if a tourney) to make sure your son is on the field when they are around.

 

 

Thanks Joe. That's all good stuff and we're at various phases of most of what you mentioned. We just need to get the school list down to a manageable level.

With regard to recruiting services, we had three going, two of which I dropped to the free option. Unfortunately, the third one is not a month-to-month deal so I've committed those funds, period. I have mixed feelings on it as there have been a few benefits like a centralized spot for school research, video creation by the service (the first of which ended up not too bad), and an objective evaluation of his abilities and corresponding target schools.

Is any of that something I couldn't do/get on my own? Probably not.
Will I end up regretting spending the money on this? The jury is still out but if I didn't do it and an opportunity was missed I'd forever regret it as a dad trying to do the right thing in support of his son's goals and dreams. If he gets a profile view or a follow that turns out to be a school that sees him at a tournament, or we decide to attend a camp at, and an offer results in a commitment, I'd probably tell you the service was the greatest thing ever ;-) The likelihood of this is slim but so is the likelihood of me being able to travel to the coasts multiple times a year to attend the big camps and showcases. If it sounds like I'm doing a bit of justification, well, I am. I question every step and decision made in the process and know that I will mess some up. Only time will tell so we just enjoy it while we can.

So glad to hear from other parents of the middle kid — good enough to play, but not looking at top tier baseball schools. That was my son, although he did end up at a very good baseball school. Notes from our experience — first, he's a 2018 who committed in September of his senior year. We are from Iowa, home to one D1 baseball school. Not sure we have any D2, but a couple of NAIA, so. . . 

1. We cast a very wide net. Son emailed more than 200 coaches with links to his video and web site. Those two things are vital.

2. He never ignored an email. Every camp invite got a note back, saying he couldn't attend or would check his schedule, but then repeating links to his web site and his video and asking for feedback. Several gave it and we added them to our list of "maybes."

3. Son went to camps. We chose schools from various sizes and backgrounds, mostly in states surrounding ours. He attended camps and did college visits for a couple of very large D1s, a couple of mid-size D1s, then a few middle size D2s, and some smaller D3s. We never went to a camp without also scheduling a campus visit. The variety in schools helped him narrow in on what mattered to him. While some of them he walked away from going "not my thing" they still were worth while because he also learned more what he liked and what he didn't. And he got the offer to the school he will attend in the fall after pitching an inning at a camp in September.

4. We didn't do Headfirst or any other big camps. Son attended at least one, sometimes two, PBR events each year just to get updated measurables and to be seen by coaches, he played for a decent but not outstanding travel team that traveled just around Iowa and surrounding states (Missouri and Illinois). Those two things seemed to get him the attention he needed without driving us into the poorhouse. He did play in a couple of PG events his senior year when he hit 6'3" and his FB started to tease 90.

5. We worked with an advisor and found it worthwhile. We paid one lump sum after my son's freshman year, and continue to talk to the guy with questions about which events to attend, how to respond to coach questions, insights on video, etc. Yes, we can get a lot of that here, but while this site turned out to be great for me, the advisor was the same resource for my son.

6. When we did get some interest and figured out the size school my son wanted, we looked at the rankings percentage index of the last season for schools like the ones expressing interest, identified schools close to them (so if the 140th school on the list was expressing interest, we reached out to the 120th through the 170th that looked interesting). It helped us narrow the search.

8. Son aggressively reached out. During his junior season, he had about 15 coaches that he texted after every game with stats, notes on his performance, and thoughts on what he would do to improve, and a note on when he would next pitch and an invitation to the coach to be there. It helped the schools know he was serious, stay up to date on his skills and growth, and schedule times they could come see him.

Best wishes. I think when you're a mid-level player it's harder. There's a lot of schools out there and finding the right fit isn't easy when you're just looking at academics. Adding baseball to it makes the challenge even greater.

 

my 2013 played mid-tier D1 .... they take a lot of Juco's

So, I'm going to take a slightly different approach and recommendation.  Your son sounds like a tweener...he could have the baseball talent to play in college and he is has an initial ACT score that is a borderline for some high academic schools.   The question becomes where to spend your time and money to give him the necessary exposure to a school that is looking for someone like him?  Based on what you've shared, the answer may be that he may get more exposure to more schools by boosting his ACT score and attending more showcases that look for academic recruits like him.  Again, based on what you've shared I think your son can more easily separate himself from the crowd by continuing his baseball development AND specifically focusing his attention to boosting his ACT and grades.  

As always JMO.  Good luck.

PS...I would not limit geography at this point in his search.

Tequila posted:

"FWIW, my son's info is as follows:

2019 Catcher
5'10" 165lbs
GPA - 3.60 / 4.0
ACT 28
Exit Velo - 84
60 - 7.02
Position Velo - 77
Consistent Pop Time - 1.9-2.1"

And I'd add one more:

"7-months to better all these numbers."

I commend you and your son for knowing what his "numbers" are in the first place.  This is the first step in having an idea of what level he should be aiming for.  But what I see is a kid who has already put himself in a solid position, but I'd be curious if he can do better in all categories before June 2018.  I bet he can. 

Numbers like these are not to be set on the mantel, these numbers are only good if he breaks all of them and gets even better.  

Your son has some solid base numbers, but the really good news is he has a good 6-7 months to make them even better.  Getting his GPA closer to the 4.0 end, ACT to 30 minimum, breaking 7.0 in the sixty, adding 10lbs more, and being a legit pop time of 1.9 are ALL things he has a lot of control over.  Tell your son he can not control what coaches think of him, but HE can control his side of things by having goals and holding himself accountable.  Tell him also that the GPA/ACT #s are as important (some schools more) as the Ht/Wt/60/etc. #s.  And biggest asset your son has now is TIME; 6-7 months to get better.   

Assuming your son has all the fundamental skills needed to play  catcher and hit college pitching, he has 7-months before he makes his one last final push on the recruiting scene (June thru August 2018). 

If his #s in June are 175, 4.0, 30, 90, 6.99, 80, 1.9 and has the skill set req'd of a college catcher?  He will have some great options. 

The great news is he has 7-months to achieve these goals.  Good luck and welcome to the site, glad you're here!

There are camps specifically for high academic schools.  One we got an email for had about 20-30 really great academic d3s attending.  I would make one of those camps a priority. They don't have big scouting budgets so going to a camp where they know most of the kids attending have the grades is a win for them too.

#1 Assistant Coach posted:

Tequila posted:

"FWIW, my son's info is as follows:

2019 Catcher
5'10" 165lbs
GPA - 3.60 / 4.0
ACT 28
Exit Velo - 84
60 - 7.02
Position Velo - 77
Consistent Pop Time - 1.9-2.1"

And I'd add one more:

"7-months to better all these numbers."

I commend you and your son for knowing what his "numbers" are in the first place.  This is the first step in having an idea of what level he should be aiming for.  But what I see is a kid who has already put himself in a solid position, but I'd be curious if he can do better in all categories before June 2018.  I bet he can. 

Numbers like these are not to be set on the mantel, these numbers are only good if he breaks all of them and gets even better.  

Your son has some solid base numbers, but the really good news is he has a good 6-7 months to make them even better.  Getting his GPA closer to the 4.0 end, ACT to 30 minimum, breaking 7.0 in the sixty, adding 10lbs more, and being a legit pop time of 1.9 are ALL things he has a lot of control over.  Tell your son he can not control what coaches think of him, but HE can control his side of things by having goals and holding himself accountable.  Tell him also that the GPA/ACT #s are as important (some schools more) as the Ht/Wt/60/etc. #s.  And biggest asset your son has now is TIME; 6-7 months to get better.   

Assuming your son has all the fundamental skills needed to play  catcher and hit college pitching, he has 7-months before he makes his one last final push on the recruiting scene (June thru August 2018). 

If his #s in June are 175, 4.0, 30, 90, 6.99, 80, 1.9 and has the skill set req'd of a college catcher?  He will have some great options. 

The great news is he has 7-months to achieve these goals.  Good luck and welcome to the site, glad you're here!

I commended Tequila and his son for simply knowing what his "son's info" was, as that is the first step in the recruiting process. 

I teach HS and coach JV baseball.  One of my players is now a sophomore.  He's a solid player, definitely has a shot at playing ball somewhere in college.  He told me earlier this fall that a D-1 school had sent him a letter (I'm guessing just a generic camp invite, but I was not going to rain on his parade).  He was excited about it and I shared his enthusiasm.   I made it a point to tell him to do well in school this year that his grades would be as important as his baseball skillset these next couple years.  Last week on PG I saw a kid committed to the same school that sent my player a letter back in the fall.  The newly committed player had a 3.6 GPA and a 90mph FB.  I shared the info with my sophomore player and then asked him what his GPA was?  My player responded, "I have no idea."  I asked him what his FB topped out at this last summer and he replied, "I don't know."  Regrettfully, I rest my case.  

To be fair to my player, this is not his fault, not 100% anyway.    He is not like a lot of kids whose parents are on this site LEARNING about the recruiting process.   He probably does not know his FB velo because he has never pitched at a venue where there was a radar gun.  Just getting a velo reading is no small task and certainly not an everyday assessment for most HS baseball players.  It takes all parties: player, parents, and coaches, for one kid to navigate this process successfully.  My player, I hate to say it, really has no idea how to go about the college recruiting journey.  I will assist him any way I can, but it has to come from him and his parents first, I'm not going to force it on him.    

How can you improve and attain goals if you have no idea where you are?  Yet for many HS baseball players, the "99%" -ers (or whatever the long odds % is)  who will not play any form of college ball, I fear this is the case, and it's over before they even knew it had begun.  

Tequila, your son is lucky to have you in his life asking these questions.  And I'm sure you feel lucky too!

I’ll start with “ditto on Joe’s post.” It saves a lot of repetitious typing. As for size, yes there are exceptions to the rule. But usually there’s something about the exception that’s way above the line in some aspect of his game. Don’t try to jam a square peg in a round hole. If a baseball coach tells him the peg fits in his program, great. 

Someone mentioned STEM majors. Be real selective picking programs if STEM is a desire. Otherwise, upon arrival the coach will try to talk the player out of it. Or the player may discover he doesn’t have time for baseball and studies. My daughter was a STEM major and played softball. She had to attend summer school to take courses that were too much of a conflict with softball.

2020.2023dad posted:

I have a similar question about my 2020.

-6'1 215

-I don't have a 60 time 7.3-4 ?

-Position Velocity 78

-R-R, OF 1b (pitches on summer team but would not in college)  

-Exit velo 97 (no kidding); outstanding hitter

-GPA 3.95 (advanced AP courses ).  Practice test scores indicate  28-30 on the ACT / 1250 SAT. He is probably going to study engineering or biology (does not want to be a physician though)

We are getting the best outside training in our area in hitting, throwing mechanics and speed/agility.  And the summer teams practices twice a week.  

All sounds good, right? However, we committed to a team with a handful of his HS teammates that is with a good local organization (their B team) that has good training but the schedule really will not result in much exposure.   HS team and coach are not going to be much help. 

Should we just try to play some with better teams who might do a PG, WWBA or other high exposure or look to get picked up by a better team now?  Has anyone had success getting D1 exposure playing on an average team?  I suppose we could do a college showcase and get some numbers out there.  Or would it be better just to pick a few schools show up to their camps and see if he gets noticed?     

With his academics and test scores I think it would be wise to do Headfirst or the Stanford camp. My son did the Stanford camp and received a lot of interest from good academic D3's there. Especially if he is considering Engineering or Biology. My son is no longer playing baseball but did have some opportunities at a few D3's but decided to attend one of the Service academies to get his Engineering degree and hopefully become a pilot. You can read his story as I have posted it in the past. He did verbal to a high academic D3 but did not get through admissions. He was still getting calls from college coaches summer after his Senior year but had already accepted his invitation to his current college. All his interest came after Stanford camp.   Good luck!

I love this subject. Our last boy was a late bloomer. No interest freshman or soph years because of his size.junior year he sprouted from 5'6" to 6'. Really solid. He had great academics & was looking hard at Yale, Dartmouth, Upenn. & Patriot schools. SAT Test came & scored mid 1200's. Goodbye Yale, Dartmouth, Upenn. 2 Patriot schools I feel were stringing him along. Went to Headfirst between Junior / Senior Year. Bingo... absolute best $$ spent. Found a great coach. Had an overnight and he loved the school. Applied ED & Accepted. Got a great financial package for merit & we're about to cut a check for his enrollment for fall 2018.

Things We would do differently.

His Travel team is A Nationally Recognized team. He was on B Team.It was a huge waste of money. Played Lake Pointe and BIC Tournaments. No college coaches were there. Played at main venue Once per tournament and it was at 9:30. If you weren't on a Prime Team, it was a complete money grab.

My son emailed coaches and kept them informed by email, but he was phone scared. I should have made him call the coaches more.

I would have gone to the specific college camps instead of doing the big national tournaments. If there is interest, you will get that feedback. If you get nothing back, that speaks volumes too. Don't chase it.

 

Welcome to the hsbbweb Tequila - great topic!  The responses in this thread prove why this is the finest baseball site (perhaps top athletic recruiting site) on the planet.  All the best to your young man. 

A lot of great advice here.  My 2 cents....my son only received a total of 3 offers (1 was as a preferred walk on, scholarship "maybe" his jr year).  So based on this I would guess my son was at the bottom and not a "middle range" recruit interest.  There will be a program somewhere for a kid with talent and desire.  Might not be D1, D2 or D3 but a wide variety.  Keep at it, try your best and see where that leads.  The right breaks, the right situation, and hard work can do wonders.  BTW, my son had a good college baseball career and education at a D1 program, and he is still playing .  So don't give up hope.  

Trust In Him posted:

  There will be a program somewhere for a kid with talent and desire.  Might not be D1, D2 or D3 but a wide variety.  Keep at it, try your best and see where that leads.  The right breaks, the right situation, and hard work can do wonders.   

TIM is correct on this.  After watching my son and his friends go through the recruiting process I am thoroughly convinced that anyone who has the desire to play in college can find a place.  It may not be a top program, and they may not be on scholarship but there are lots of opportunities to play and those that want to can find a home.

We had two kids that graduated with my son.  Neither of them saw the field much.  One was a catcher and one was an infielder.  The catcher ended up at a D3 where he will probably ride out his career playing on the JV squad.  His goal was to play in college and he is more then happy to just say he is on a college team.  From what I have seen, he is an average hitter, but does not field his position well.

The other ended up at a D2 school.  Smaller kid, decent fielder but he doesn't have the arm to play on the left side of the field (or the outfield), nor is he a first baseman.  This pretty much limits him to 2nd base.  He found a home at a D2 school whose roster is made up of players who appear to be at his skill level.  Again he can hit for average, but is not a power hitter.  His size and strength lend itself to 1B line drives just over the infielders heads.

Though to be fair its hard to judge their playing as they did not see significant playing time and never had a chance to get into a rhythm.  When I heard about these kids moving on, I went and looked at their PBR and PG profiles.  At graduation time both of them had measurables similar to what my kid had going into 9th grade.  

I'm using these kids as examples and please don't take this as knocking those kids.  I am really happy for them as they found a way to keep playing because thats what they wanted.  I hope each of these kids finds a way to succeed as they progress through college. 

My son was a 2017 that sounds very similar to your's Tequila.  He graduated at 5'11 (though he will tell you he is 6'0") and 170 lbs.

Between his sophomore / junior year he was a solid catcher that was fast.  Hit for a very high average and had around a 2.0 pop-time. During that summer, he got no interest.  

During the next year, he grew and got quite a bit stronger.  His pop-time dropped to the low 1.9's and his 60 speed increased.  His power increased from hitting just line drive singles to hitting more gap to gap doubles and triples (with his speed).  He has NEVER hit a HR in his entire life, much to his chagrin (he has come close so many times but never got one out).

He was playing on a good showcase team and going to lots of regional events (mid-atlantic area). He got very little interest from those events, but where he got the most interest was going to the individual showcases.  If I had it to do over again, I would have spent my money on these rather than on the showcase team.  He went to two events during the summer before his senior year (Academic Top 100 and All Star Baseball Academic) and got interest from a couple D1 and several D3 schools.

In talking with the D1 schools, it was obvious he was going to be a bottom of the roster guy.  However, several of the D3 schools had real interest in him coming in and having a role right off the bat. He ended up committing to a good D3 program that is a great athletic and academic fit.

Fast forward to this fall. He has put on about 15 lbs of muscle and had a great fall season. His coach told him that he was the #2 catcher on the depth chart heading into the spring season behind their Sr. captain...so don't think that with his size and position he won't be able to find a home at the next level.  Sure, it may not be at Vandy...but he will find a place.

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  My son's hitting coach (head baseball coach at D1 school) said he NEVER looked at those sites, and in fact, wouldn't even read emails generated from those sites.  I just went to a lacrosse showcase with my younger son this weekend and a parent asked the coaches during a Q/A panel about those sites and they all said they don't use them.  They said they NEVER go on those sites looking for players and that they are a pain to use (have to be a member, remember password, etc.).  They said they don't like the "middle man approach" and would rather just get emails from your son (using HIS email address), rather than emails generated from those sites.

Good luck to your son and enjoy his HS baseball...it ended way quicker than I was expecting for my son.

Buzzard05 posted:

My son was a 2017 that sounds very similar to your's Tequila.  He graduated at 5'11 (though he will tell you he is 6'0") and 170 lbs.

Between his sophomore / junior year he was a solid catcher that was fast.  Hit for a very high average and had around a 2.0 pop-time. During that summer, he got no interest.  

During the next year, he grew and got quite a bit stronger.  His pop-time dropped to the low 1.9's and his 60 speed increased.  His power increased from hitting just line drive singles to hitting more gap to gap doubles and triples (with his speed).  He has NEVER hit a HR in his entire life, much to his chagrin (he has come close so many times but never got one out).

He was playing on a good showcase team and going to lots of regional events (mid-atlantic area). He got very little interest from those events, but where he got the most interest was going to the individual showcases.  If I had it to do over again, I would have spent my money on these rather than on the showcase team.  He went to two events during the summer before his senior year (Academic Top 100 and All Star Baseball Academic) and got interest from a couple D1 and several D3 schools.

In talking with the D1 schools, it was obvious he was going to be a bottom of the roster guy.  However, several of the D3 schools had real interest in him coming in and having a role right off the bat. He ended up committing to a good D3 program that is a great athletic and academic fit.

Fast forward to this fall. He has put on about 15 lbs of muscle and had a great fall season. His coach told him that he was the #2 catcher on the depth chart heading into the spring season behind their Sr. captain...so don't think that with his size and position he won't be able to find a home at the next level.  Sure, it may not be at Vandy...but he will find a place.

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  My son's hitting coach (head baseball coach at D1 school) said he NEVER looked at those sites, and in fact, wouldn't even read emails generated from those sites.  I just went to a lacrosse showcase with my younger son this weekend and a parent asked the coaches during a Q/A panel about those sites and they all said they don't use them.  They said they NEVER go on those sites looking for players and that they are a pain to use (have to be a member, remember password, etc.).  They said they don't like the "middle man approach" and would rather just get emails from your son (using HIS email address), rather than emails generated from those sites.

Good luck to your son and enjoy his HS baseball...it ended way quicker than I was expecting for my son.

Good response. Thanks. What are you referring to as “recruiting services”?  Does that mean a paid consultant or do you mean something like PBR or PG who rank players and, teams?    Just trying to decide what to spend limited resoursces on not start a debate. Thx 

There are services that do all that for your kid. The one we worked with gave us advice on how to do it ourselves, which seemed much more productive. They did build my son's web site for him and were VERY detailed about his video, but they aren't in the business of direct coach contact. 

Buzzard05 posted:

My son was a 2017 that sounds very similar to your's Tequila.  He graduated at 5'11 (though he will tell you he is 6'0") and 170 lbs.

Between his sophomore / junior year he was a solid catcher that was fast.  Hit for a very high average and had around a 2.0 pop-time. During that summer, he got no interest.  

During the next year, he grew and got quite a bit stronger.  His pop-time dropped to the low 1.9's and his 60 speed increased.  His power increased from hitting just line drive singles to hitting more gap to gap doubles and triples (with his speed).  He has NEVER hit a HR in his entire life, much to his chagrin (he has come close so many times but never got one out).

He was playing on a good showcase team and going to lots of regional events (mid-atlantic area). He got very little interest from those events, but where he got the most interest was going to the individual showcases.  If I had it to do over again, I would have spent my money on these rather than on the showcase team.  He went to two events during the summer before his senior year (Academic Top 100 and All Star Baseball Academic) and got interest from a couple D1 and several D3 schools.

In talking with the D1 schools, it was obvious he was going to be a bottom of the roster guy.  However, several of the D3 schools had real interest in him coming in and having a role right off the bat. He ended up committing to a good D3 program that is a great athletic and academic fit.

Fast forward to this fall. He has put on about 15 lbs of muscle and had a great fall season. His coach told him that he was the #2 catcher on the depth chart heading into the spring season behind their Sr. captain...so don't think that with his size and position he won't be able to find a home at the next level.  Sure, it may not be at Vandy...but he will find a place.

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  My son's hitting coach (head baseball coach at D1 school) said he NEVER looked at those sites, and in fact, wouldn't even read emails generated from those sites.  I just went to a lacrosse showcase with my younger son this weekend and a parent asked the coaches during a Q/A panel about those sites and they all said they don't use them.  They said they NEVER go on those sites looking for players and that they are a pain to use (have to be a member, remember password, etc.).  They said they don't like the "middle man approach" and would rather just get emails from your son (using HIS email address), rather than emails generated from those sites.

Good luck to your son and enjoy his HS baseball...it ended way quicker than I was expecting for my son.

Thanks for the insight Buzzard. As I mentioned in an earlier post, one of the recruiting services we paid for is a flat one-time fee so that is one and done. I can't cry over spilled milk on that so I'm trying to find the benefits where they might exist. The others were month to month so we could cancel those as we felt needed.

We've received varied input from coaching staff on these; some say they use it, others not so much. When my son emails, it's always from his personal email address so we don't use the messaging features built in to these for the very reason you mentioned above.

For any folks who might be reading this and considering such services, in our experience, the benefits we've seen to date are as follows (over and above posting stats, video, etc.):

1. Fairly comprehensive database of school information which provides a way to easily and centrally search various aspects about the institution. Most of these also have links to external sites referencing the school/team.

2. Notifications when your profile is viewed/followed/added and by which school and coach. This has been useful in determining what kind of attention may or may not be there (from the schools who use the services of course).

3. One resource in particular is utilized by our HS coaching staff with their network of contacts in the college space. They have the ability to promote and certify the player's profile and content. In my son's case, this has resulted in a couple of follows which, to those unfamiliar with how most of these work, simply means that the coach(es) will get a notification when something is updated on the profile e.g. video, stats, transcripts, game schedules, etc.

4. Some of these offer a school matching function which draws from their database and compares it to preferences your student sets such as location, size, religious affiliation, desired major(s), GPA, test scores, and athletic stats, to come up with a list of schools based on match percentage (higher being more closely aligned with your profile and preferred college experience). The benefit here for us is basically narrowing down the options which in many cases involved schools we didn't know about or might not have ever thought of.

In fairness, and as I mentioned previously, he has received a limited amount of interest to date and no direct (one-to-one) contact from coaches, even in response to emails sent, so all of the benefits I listed above might be for naught in the end.

2020.2023dad posted:

Buzzard05 posted:

One bit of advice I would give is to see what return you are getting from the recruiting services you are paying for.  

Good response. Thanks. What are you referring to as “recruiting services”?  Does that mean a paid consultant or do you mean something like PBR or PG who rank players and, teams?    Just trying to decide what to spend limited resoursces on not start a debate. Thx 

2020.2023 not to speak for Buzzard, but he is referring to the online websites that charge between $15 - $30 a month that allow you to post your sons info as well as videos online.  Im not going to name them but if your kids are into sports they most likely are popping up on our facebook and other feeds.

They claim to help in recruiting by providing your information to many colleges.  They do that, but most (if not all) colleges only use this information for sending out camp invites and revenue generation.  Its rare that a kid is recruited based on a profile on these sites.  Everything they do can be done by your son and his results will far surpass those of these websites.

PBR and PG are different.  They provide actual data that was gathered and verified at their events.  These sites are used by colleges to verify data and recruiting, though I would guess that most coaches are not sitting there combing through their data every day.  They will use it for their top lists as well as to verify the information provided by your son is correct.  If PGSTAFF is still around he may pipe up and give us some more insight into how the site is used by the RCs.

What IOWAMOM is references is a service that helps your son organize his information and get it online.  They will help with putting together all the info in a useable format and will provide guidance on how your son should use that information to market himself.  These services have benefit if they are providing a service that you can not complete by yourself either due to time or lack of knowledge.  Think of these services like consultants as at work.

2020.2023dad posted:

Good response. Thanks. What are you referring to as “recruiting services”?  Does that mean a paid consultant or do you mean something like PBR or PG who rank players and, teams?    Just trying to decide what to spend limited resoursces on not start a debate. Thx 

My apologies if that comment derailed the topic.

I was referring to those sites that serve as just a database of "prospects", many of which allow you to contact the coaches "from" that site.  The baseball (and lacrosse) coaches that I have had contact with (granted, a very limited amount of coaches) have all said they don't use those services and don't feel they provide good return on your investment.  (Some of those sites send you emails telling you a coach searched for you player or messaged your player...and then you have to pay a fee to see which coaches they were.)  Both the baseball and lacrosse coaches said that the recruiting environment is becoming somewhat "predatory" with companies popping up just looking to take your money without providing a real valuable service.

My comment was made to just let you know what I had heard from those coaches, and to evaluate whether you are spending money on something you could be doing yourself in terms of research/contacting coaches.

I was not talking about PG or PBR. 

Thanks for the responses.  I believe we've been contacted by some and I've pretty much ignored them.  PG and PBR always come highly recommended and I did not think they did any direct contact, just held events and provided great information, rankings, good data to benchmark etc.  Note quite there yet  

2020.2023dad posted:

Thanks for the responses.  I believe we've been contacted by some and I've pretty much ignored them.  PG and PBR always come highly recommended and I did not think they did any direct contact, just held events and provided great information, rankings, good data to benchmark etc.  Note quite there yet  

Even though this is somewhat adjacent to my original topic, I feel I need to chime in here. I don't have firsthand experience with PG so I can't comment there, but I will say that our state "chapter" of PBR definitely has its cons. First, it is definitely a money-making endeavor so I hope nobody thinks that they're somehow more interested in the kids development and recruitment than any other service that takes money for offering tools, measurements, and statistics to help in this area. Second, the PBR in my state (or at least my area of the state) is affiliated (unofficially, but everyone knows it) with a "baseball academy" that fields tournament teams of several different age groups and abilities. The players on these teams clearly get top billing and ranking on the PBR site so this almost forces parents of other kids to register their kids for a PBR event on a somewhat regular basis just to be included and searchable in their database. My son has attended three PBR events over the past two years and none of them have been particularly impressive. Two of the three were more like a factory processing line; not enough warm-up, a lot of standing around and, when it's your turn, get through as quickly as possible. At $175.00 a pop for a position player, that seems to be a money grab to me. One of the events was touted as "invite-only" but as the event date drew nearer they were soliciting for attendees. I'm sorry to take this down a negative path but that's been our experience and I don't want folks going into things with the impression that one sport-specific service is somehow more altruistic that another. All the ones I've seen have a bottom line to consider.

I think baseball teaches a lot of the lessons necessary specific to the mid-tier player in the midst of the recruiting process...

You will fail (get a lot of "no"s and no response) many times.  You gotta be able to flush and get the next one, each time giving full effort and expecting to succeed.

If you keep working hard (and smart), good things will happen.  

Get good "coaching" regarding your strengths and weaknesses.  (get honest, qualified neutral party to evaluate so you are fishing in the right pond).

Passion and persistence matter.

Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan.

See the whole field.

Get a lot of quality reps - one of the most common mistakes I see with mid-tier players/parents in the recruiting process is the tendency to just follow one lead and wait.  There is a little bit of interest shown or a plan to attend a camp at a future date and they think that their work is done for now and they should just wait to see what comes of that one interested party or that one event.  Once the player is in recruiting mode, he has to continue to hit from all angles, expecting those several "no's", no responses and string-alongs and having several other logs on the fire.  

cabbagedad posted:

I think baseball teaches a lot of the lessons necessary specific to the mid-tier player in the midst of the recruiting process...

You will fail (get a lot of "no"s and no response) many times.  You gotta be able to flush and get the next one, each time giving full effort and expecting to succeed.

If you keep working hard (and smart), good things will happen.  

Get good "coaching" regarding your strengths and weaknesses.  (get honest, qualified neutral party to evaluate so you are fishing in the right pond).

Passion and persistence matter.

Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan.

See the whole field.

Get a lot of quality reps - one of the most common mistakes I see with mid-tier players/parents in the recruiting process is the tendency to just follow one lead and wait.  There is a little bit of interest shown or a plan to attend a camp at a future date and they think that their work is done for now and they should just wait to see what comes of that one interested party or that one event.  Once the player is in recruiting mode, he has to continue to hit from all angles, expecting those several "no's", no responses and string-alongs and having several other logs on the fire.  

As usual cabbagedad has some good stuff here.  " Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan."  I asked my son this question during his Jr. college year.  Aside from the usual depends on runners on base, outs, score, inning ,pitcher's best pitch, etc., he said his mentality is " I'm better than the pitcher, the question isn't if I'm going to hit the ball, rather it is how hard I am going to hit it, how far it goes, and how many bases I will get.  If the pitcher gets me out, hats off to him, but most likely I swung at a marginal or bad pitch/strike (sorry all pitchers and dads out there).  A bit cocky? - yes.  Point is all hitters should have that type of confidence when stepping in the box, and all pitchers think and believe the opposite.  I've seen many hitters as they stand in the box their body language seems to say I hope I get a hit, or I hope I don't K.  Good luck...

cabbagedad posted:

I think baseball teaches a lot of the lessons necessary specific to the mid-tier player in the midst of the recruiting process...

You will fail (get a lot of "no"s and no response) many times.  You gotta be able to flush and get the next one, each time giving full effort and expecting to succeed.

If you keep working hard (and smart), good things will happen.  

Get good "coaching" regarding your strengths and weaknesses.  (get honest, qualified neutral party to evaluate so you are fishing in the right pond).

Passion and persistence matter.

Don't just step in the box and hope good things happen.  Have a good, focused plan.

See the whole field.

Get a lot of quality reps - one of the most common mistakes I see with mid-tier players/parents in the recruiting process is the tendency to just follow one lead and wait.  There is a little bit of interest shown or a plan to attend a camp at a future date and they think that their work is done for now and they should just wait to see what comes of that one interested party or that one event.  Once the player is in recruiting mode, he has to continue to hit from all angles, expecting those several "no's", no responses and string-alongs and having several other logs on the fire.  

Cabbage - I like your write-up, particularly the "expecting those several "no's", no responses, and string-alongs".  

I think I can honestly say that Ryno was in a pretty good position as a recruit, but he dealt with all of the above along the way.  I agree that parents/recruits should expect some of this activity, and do not let it get you down.  Keep working to get better, researching, making contacts, and putting yourself in front of the right decision makers.  

I think people should recognize that sometimes encouragement can make all the difference for a young man.  Sometimes the mid-tier (or lower tier) prospect becomes the top-shelf prospect with time, patience, perseverance, and willingness to outwork the competition among other things. 

Maybe someone is classified as mid-tier now but three years from now after a college weight training program and experience, you might not even recognize that kid who has now grown into a young man.  Sometimes the tortoise ends up beating the hare.  Sometimes the ugly duckling becomes the beautiful swan.

ClevelandDad posted:

I think people should recognize that sometimes encouragement can make all the difference for a young man.  Sometimes the mid-tier (or lower tier) prospect becomes the top-shelf prospect with time, patience, perseverance, and willingness to outwork the competition among other things. 

Maybe someone is classified as mid-tier now but three years from now after a college weight training program and experience, you might not even recognize that kid who has now grown into a young man.  Sometimes the tortoise ends up beating the hare.  Sometimes the ugly duckling becomes the beautiful swan.

What may be "mid-tier" at College X may be a "top-tier" at College Y.  Keep looking and do what you can to find "Y".  

I know someone who went into the recruiting consulting business riding the baseball reputation of his two oldest sons. He charged $1,000 per client for advice. 

One of his client’s was one the son of a very good friend. I had mentored the kid in baseball and coached him until 17u when our kids went in different directions. 

The consultant knew little of the kid’s talent. He helped the kid plan how he was going to get in front of Stanford and Vanderbilt. After all, he was all conference. I almost lost a friend when I told the mother the kid had D3 potential. He should be going to Head First, not East Cobb and the Stanford Camp.

Later in time the mother thanked me for responding faster than their paid consultant. She asked how I knew what the consultant knew. I told her experience from softball recruiting (older kid) and if I don’t know, hsbaseballweb where there’s always at least one person who has experienced anything you can throw at the board. 

The kid played at an top academic D3.

RJM posted:

I know someone who went into the recruiting consulting business riding the baseball reputation of his two oldest sons. He charged $1,000 per client for advice. 

One of his client’s was one the son of a very good friend. I had mentored the kid in baseball and coached him until 17u when our kids went in different directions. 

The consultant knew little of the kid’s talent. He helped the kid plan how he was going to get in front of Stanford and Vanderbilt. After all, he was all conference. I almost lost a friend when I told the mother the kid had D3 potential. He should be going to Head First, not East Cobb and the Stanford Camp.

Later in time the mother thanked me for responding faster than their paid consultant. She asked how I knew what the consultant knew. I told her experience from softball recruiting (older kid) and if I don’t know, hsbaseballweb where there’s always at least one person who has experienced anything you can throw at the board. 

The kid played at an top academic D3.

I think this is THE biggest issue that people have when they start the recruitment process.  Sure, if you're starting with a freshman, things can change...height, weight, speed, etc, but you need to have a "baseline" to start with.  When my son was a sophomore he was small, but was throwing hard on the mound and starting at SS on varsity.  He wanted to play in college...and had already been told by a local D3 coach that "he would take him right now"  My son wanted to play at a D1...both because he thought that's where he would be challenged the most and the fact that he wanted to attend a bigger campus than most D3's provided. 

I went to watch a game between two D1's close to here...actually one of them was the school he ended up at.  They were mid-pack in the league and playing the top team in the league. Sunday afternoon, 3rd game of the series.  Game ended up 13-11 or something like that....30 hits, 6 errors...and just not what you would consider to be a "good game"...lol.  Ok, I knew this wasn't typical and that things happen, but after that game, I went home...sat down with my son and said "I think you can play at that level".  I really felt that having coached a good 15U/16U team for two years and knowing quite a few kids who had gone on to college that I could "objectively" make the observation...and felt comfortable doing it.  If you don't, find someone who does....knowing that you might not like the answer.  My best friend's son (also a HS teammate of my son) wanted his son to try to play D1.  It was tough because he would ask me my thoughts.  I did my best to "answer without really answering" as I wanted to keep him as a friend lol.  His son eventually did go to walk on tryouts...realized what he was up against and told his dad he was done with baseball.  His dad was crushed, but I think eventually he understood. 

My son played at a mid level D1.  the catcher was 6'2 265 .. he was honored to be on foulball "all buffet team"  the firstbase man was 6'4 240...  the middle infielders had plus arms,  good feet and had that 100 yard stare.  The CF was on ESPN a few times for plays he made with his world class speed. as a team they hit like 60 homruns all the pitchers except one were 6'2 to 6'8  throwing 90 was common.....  a mid-tier team....

Its really hard to get a D1 to look at you.... how about getting a D1 coach to start you in a game?  trying going 0 for 10  or walking a couple batters....

Also, high school stats mean nothing.... the only thing that matters are your baseball skills and grades that's it.

Advice, get an assessment from someone who does not care if your son plays baseball or not. someone who is not your friend... your high school coach or maybe even your travel coach. 

Be brutally honest with your son... I understand the dream.... but change that dream to a "goal"  and you will end up in a better position when baseball is over.   Take your son to mid major games... ask a older travel team if you can fill-in in a scrimmage.  and then ask yourself can play at this level with these guys , do I really want to play college baseball ?  or is chasing the dream what is really going on? 

For those 2019 looking for a D1... the time is getting close.  Most D1 mid-major schools may take a few more high school players, but they are already on their list.  and the rest will be transfers and juco's . 

i am not bashing D2 D3 etc.... mine have played Juco, D1 and D3.. I played the recruiting game at all levels.... recruiting is a cruel biz anyone that who like honest advice PM me.

Good stuff and thanks Backdorslider. I appreciate the candor. I don't think that my son has ever used the word "dream," that's more my verbiage and used interchangeably (probably incorrectly) with goal. The end of his playing baseball will be a sad day but it won't be the end of the world for him or for his mother and I. We're just enjoying the ride while we can. The game has provided so many positive experiences, and so much joy, that he will carry with him the rest of his life that there is no way any regrets could overshadow that, even if it ended today.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial post that when I refer to "mid-tier." I'm not talking about mid-tier D1 or mid-tier D3 or whatever. I'm talking about the kid who maybe isn't the second coming of Bryce Harper but is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. I'm talking about my kid basically which is why I started the thread There is somewhere for him but it is hard, if not impossible, for me to be objective because I see what he keeps up with - how hard he works - all the events, uniforms, practices, games, 6am workouts, tests, quizzes, AP class load and homework, volunteer hours, fundraising events, tutoring, private lessons, cages, tee work in the back yard, coach emails, camps, showcases, etc. etc....and this is at 16 years of age and he's been carrying that on for two and a half years at least! So of course I think he's the greatest thing ever. There is no way I could have done all that at his age so I'm just trying to be there for him in whatever way I can. I'm a proud dad no matter what he decides or how all this works out! I just appreciate all the advice and suggestions I've received from this post. This has been truly inspiring, encouraging, humbling, and informative. Thanks folks!

bacdorslider posted:

... I understand the dream.... but change that dream to a "goal"  and you will end up in a better position when baseball is over.   ...

YES - This is one of the huge challenges for just about every kid and family.  99% of kids looking to play past HS have some version of "the dream".  MLB and/or big time college ball are the visual, at least early on in HS.  So, by the time the player makes that transition from dream to goal and the realistic goal is something other than MLB or P5 D1, the window can be very short for putting together a comprehensive recruiting plan.

Here's another huge challenge ...  

Trust in Him offered an excellent piece of advise...

"What may be "mid-tier"(player) at College X may be a "top-tier"(player) at College Y.  Keep looking and do what you can to find "Y"."

While that sounds straight forward and logical, the problem here is that most kids who have made it to HS and still have "the dream" or "the goal" are very competitive and their nature is to want to be the best, play the best and beat the best.  So, they are going to be mentally wired to reach. 

So, advising them to target a playing level that is possibly not the highest level they could compete goes against every fiber of their being.  I still don't know the perfect answer to this one.

tequila posted:

.................................................................

Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial post that when I refer to "mid-tier." I'm not talking about mid-tier D1 or mid-tier D3 or whatever. I'm talking about the kid who maybe isn't the second coming of Bryce Harper but is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. I'm talking about my kid basically which is why I started the thread There is somewhere for him but it is hard, if not impossible, for me to be objective because I see what he keeps up with - how hard he works - all the events, uniforms, practices, games, 6am workouts, tests, quizzes, AP class load and homework, volunteer hours, fundraising events, tutoring, private lessons, cages, tee work in the back yard, coach emails, camps, showcases, etc. etc....and this is at 16 years of age and he's been carrying that on for two and a half years at least! So of course I think he's the greatest thing ever. There is no way I could have done all that at his age so I'm just trying to be there for him in whatever way I can. I'm a proud dad no matter what he decides or how all this works out! I just appreciate all the advice and suggestions I've received from this post. This has been truly inspiring, encouraging, humbling, and informative. Thanks folks!

Tequila - You're doing all the right things at the right time.  Believe it or not, your son sounds like many that pass through HSBBWeb.   He's working hard in the classroom and on the baseball field and trying to find his college niche.   If you think about, and follow some of the advice provided it will open your eyes and his eyes.   I'll be the first to admit I knew very little about college baseball recruiting when my oldest son first started getting noticed and contacted by college coaches   It was difficult to provide guidance when his father didn't know what the options were.   That changed quickly as I immersed myself in the topic and did a lot of listening to what he wanted to do with his college career.   He changed his goals a few times along the way, but I was there with the answers as well as the important questions to ask.

You have an open invitation from many to help you.  My advice is to take advantage of their wisdom and experiences.  IMHO, the first thing you need to do is to sit down with him and discuss what he sees as his college, financial, and college baseball future.  Start there.  Ask questions and begin to formulate a plan with him.  There are many threads and posts about developing a plan and changing plans.  Work with him, and give him ownership of the goals and tasks.   Trust me, he will gain confidence over time.  My oldest kid is an introvert.  He says very little around people he knows.  When he was a college freshmen, his teammates thought he was mute.   I'm not kidding.  However, a funny thing happened during his college recruitment... he became downright chatty with college coaches because he had to.  These young men catch on quickly that if you want something real bad, you got to take ownership.  it is not just my son but many other recruits that have gone through this process.  I helped my son almost 8 years ago, and learned enough to write a book.  So I'll stop there.

Feel free to reach out if you have questions.  We're all here to help.

fenwaysouth posted:

tequila posted:

 He says very little around people he knows.  When he was a college freshmen, his teammates thought he was mute.   I'm not kidding.  However, a funny thing happened during his college recruitment... he became downright chatty with college coaches because he had to.  These young men catch on quickly that if you want something real bad, you got to take ownership.

Funny, when my son was offered...he called the RC.    It was just after a travel game on a Friday morning.  Coach had watched him throw the night before and had emailed later night and asked him to call the next day.  I was standing next to him.  Obviously I only heard son's side of the convo....he's how it went.

Hi coach....yep, we won, yep, uh huh, ok, yes, yes they're good with it, yes, ok bye.

Offered and accepted.   Total time approximately a minute and half lol

Fortunately now as a junior, he has gotten much better at carrying on a conversation

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Hi coach....yep, we won, yep, uh huh, ok, yes, yes they're good with it, yes, ok bye.

Offered and accepted.   Total time approximately a minute and half lol

That's classic! I assume, prior to that conversation, he knew he wanted to go there and on what terms he would accept?

tequila posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

Hi coach....yep, we won, yep, uh huh, ok, yes, yes they're good with it, yes, ok bye.

Offered and accepted.   Total time approximately a minute and half lol

That's classic! I assume, prior to that conversation, he knew he wanted to go there and on what terms he would accept?

Lol...yes, we had visited the school 2 days before.  He was actually expecting an offer on the visit but it didn't happen.  Coach wanted to see him throw one more time.  We basically knew what the offer would be...he liked the school and we were good with him accepting.  

After he hung up I looked at him and here was our convo

Me: well??

Son: yeah he wanted me

Me: ...and???

Son: I told him I'd come

Me:...and???

Son:....and what?  Oh, you want to know what I got?

... is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. 

This really doesn’t nail it down. He could still be anywhere from a D1 to a very competitive D3 prospect. Take all the kids who can play. Your son is one of them. Now it gets sliced and diced into projectability at the next level. It’s starts being about foot speed, arm strength, soft hands, foot work, bat speed, exit velocity, etc.. Then there are coaches who are prejudiced against players of a certain size at certain positions. 

As mentioned it sometimes takes having someone not afraid to offend you or doesn’t have skin in the game who is willing to give you the truth. Even then a kid might prove the evaluator wrong. 

The biggest mistake I believe recruits make is passing up programs that really want them to be a second or third tier recruit at their dream school. 

RJM posted:

This really doesn’t nail it down. He could still be anywhere from a D1 to a very competitive D3 prospect. Take all the kids who can play. Your son is one of them. Now it gets sliced and diced into projectability at the next level.

Exactly what I'm getting at RJM. You hit it on the head and that is basically what I stated in my very first post when I said ...by all accounts that I've been given (coaches and others in the business) he could potentially make teams at all levels of college baseball. It doesn't nail it down because it isn't "nail-down-able." The category you term as "...all the kids that can play," it is broad, varying, and dependent upon umpteen factors that we have to somehow deal with during the process and hope you were exposed to the right people, were assessed by the right [unbiased and knowledgeable] third party, all while trying to constantly improve academically and athletically. I am fairly certain of one thing; he wants to play and contribute as soon as he can so that at least helps his choices narrow some.

Your response, I believe, highlights the very essence of the reason I started the thread. It is a tricky road for players in this range and, I'll daresay, more complicated and requires more effort because there is a "selling yourself" portion that the top level talent doesn't seem to have as much of. Add the question of DI/DII/DIII/NAIA/Juco in the mix and you've got a redwood to whittle into a toothpick that you may never complete. Good times!

In the big picture of the journey it’s good times. It ultimately works out if the kid wants it. But I sometimes believe college sports recruiting was the driving force behind the invention of antacid tablets.

How about this for a recruiting journey.  A friend's son (2019) is committed to a well known midwest university for baseball...has been for almost a year.  Kid is a phenomenal athlete and had an unbelievable year on the football field as a WR/KR.  Football coach at the school he's committed to really wants him to do both...meaning full ride for football   That option has been in the works for awhile....and they are considering it.   A B1G visited him at school today and offered for football.  Another B1G that had offered him for baseball has football guys coming to see him tomorrow.....then an ACC school on Thursday and the football guys from the school he's committed to on Friday.  At this point, he's still thinking that he's gonna stick with baseball only...but the options are definitely tempting him

I guess if I were him I'd love to be in the position to have to be making those decisions!

Buckeye 2015 posted:

How about this for a recruiting journey.  A friend's son (2019) is committed to a well known midwest university for baseball...has been for almost a year.  Kid is a phenomenal athlete and had an unbelievable year on the football field as a WR/KR.  Football coach at the school he's committed to really wants him to do both...meaning full ride for football   That option has been in the works for awhile....and they are considering it.   A B1G visited him at school today and offered for football.  Another B1G that had offered him for baseball has football guys coming to see him tomorrow.....then an ACC school on Thursday and the football guys from the school he's committed to on Friday.  At this point, he's still thinking that he's gonna stick with baseball only...but the options are definitely tempting him

When it comes to B1G it’s an easy choice. If they wear Green and White, go for it. If it’s Maize and Blue or Scarlet and Gray pass on the offer.  Any other school is not even worth talking to. 

The best thing having a middle-of-the-pack player was it was a early glimpse into real life.  He learned to sell himself, to handle rejection, to pick up the pieces and keep going.  Those skills are a LOT more valuable than baseball.

RJM, Fenway, Cabbage and bunch of others  are absolutely accurate when it comes to trying to get an realistic view.  In my opinion, the most important reason for this:  Minimizing disappointment and heartache.  The process pulls at the heartstrings.  Your son will get his hopes up unless he is one of the select few that has their pick of the litter.  

The reason… its a game.  When you are a middle-of-the-pack guy…. you are strung along cause a coach never knows what will happen with his first two or three choices.  Do they get drafted?  Do they sign with another program?  It's in a coaches best interest to have lot of choices to work with until the last minute. 

Best advice you’ll get and in my opinion you should listen to:  Who really loves your son.  You’ll know.  Looking back on it — my son had three schools that LOVED him, two schools that liked him and one school that was neutral.  

Having a small catcher is tough.  Son was a 2017 and his recruiting journey was interesting.  Was around 5'8" 140 junior year.  He had interest (but not love) from all levels so it wasn't clear which level he should target.  Since he's Mr. Laid Back Dude, he decided to go the route of "everyone has seen me play, so if they aren't interested, I'm not going to bug them".  He had great grades but mediocre test scores, so that ruled out high academics.  Plus, he still has no idea what he wants to major in.  We did lots of visits and that was very helpful in ruling out what he didn't like.  He fell in love with a lower level D1 and I think the love was reciprocated but the coach was let go the week following his visit.  I really hope it wasn't because he wanted to bring on an intense little guy.

The biggest factor in his recruiting was playing for the best program in the area that had an owner/coach that loved him.  He knows everyone and worked his butt off for our son.   Offer at the current school was based solely on coach's recommendation. Kudos to his coach, how do you market a kid with D1 measurables on a 14U frame?  We're not in the baseball knitting circle so I am forever grateful for his efforts.

I wish I could say there's a magical formula, but it's more about the grind.  Every day he works on getting bigger, stronger and faster.  As a catcher, he understands that his job is to make his pitchers look good.  It's all about team.  His pitchers love him and follow him around like baby ducks...they always have.   

He's still grinding away.  He's at a JUCO 1.5 hours away.  Coach brought him on for his steady bat and through hard work he has earned his spot.  He's getting great grades and still chasing that baseball dream.  The road is longer for some than others.  Everyone's path is different.  

 

 

 

 

joes87 posted:

Buckeye 2015 posted:

How about this for a recruiting journey.  A friend's son (2019) is committed to a well known midwest university for baseball...has been for almost a year.  Kid is a phenomenal athlete and had an unbelievable year on the football field as a WR/KR.  Football coach at the school he's committed to really wants him to do both...meaning full ride for football   That option has been in the works for awhile....and they are considering it.   A B1G visited him at school today and offered for football.  Another B1G that had offered him for baseball has football guys coming to see him tomorrow.....then an ACC school on Thursday and the football guys from the school he's committed to on Friday.  At this point, he's still thinking that he's gonna stick with baseball only...but the options are definitely tempting him

When it comes to B1G it’s an easy choice. If they wear Green and White, go for it. If it’s Maize and Blue or Scarlet and Gray pass on the offer.  Any other school is not even worth talking to. 

Not going to get too specific....but yep, it's one of those 3....

Tequila I would guess that the majority of folks on this site, except for a few exceptions, are exactly in the same boat as you are in.   Those of us with 2019s without offers are starting to get a little more anxious....  At this point its safe to say that the top tier 2019s are already taken up.  I have a RHP, not sure if that makes this journey easier or harder?    My only advice would be to get him to a big PG tournament on a GOOD team.      I told my son the other day that I want him to walk out to the mound in the spring and be able to say that he did everything possible this fall and winter to reach his full potential (athletically and academically).....if he can say that then all is good, no matter where he ends up or doesn't end up.   Never want either one of us to  wonder 10 years from now "what if I had.....".  Good luck and lots of good advice from those on here who have already been through this journey.  

stayfocused posted:

Tequila I would guess that the majority of folks on this site, except for a few exceptions, are exactly in the same boat as you are in.   Those of us with 2019s without offers are starting to get a little more anxious....  At this point its safe to say that the top tier 2019s are already taken up.  I have a RHP, not sure if that makes this journey easier or harder?    My only advice would be to get him to a big PG tournament on a GOOD team.      I told my son the other day that I want him to walk out to the mound in the spring and be able to say that he did everything possible this fall and winter to reach his full potential (athletically and academically).....if he can say that then all is good, no matter where he ends up or doesn't end up.   Never want either one of us to  wonder 10 years from now "what if I had.....".  Good luck and lots of good advice from those on here who have already been through this journey.  

FWIW, particularly for those of you with "mid tier" 2018's and 2019's...

I have a 2019 in our system who is, by everyone's assessment, a D1 kid.  He and dad have been getting quite anxious because he has had interest and dialog but no offers yet.  They keep hearing that D1 happens earlier now (sophomore summer-ish).  I got a call from the RC of a decent midlevel D1 that plays several P5's non-conference.  He was asking about this player but was nervous about offering because they rarely offer "this early".  They just finished with 2018's.  So, as it pertains to the mid-tier player, this is another data point that D1 mid-level and down generally still aren't pushing up their recruiting efforts much before the junior season is playing out.

Thanks Cabbagedad. I have heard a similar sentiment from a RC I've been in contact with for a P5 camp my son is about to attend. His message verbatim was "Our 2019 class is getting close to be full but we still do need to fill certain areas." Anyone's guess as to what those areas are but that's in line with your RC's message.

tequila posted:

RJM posted:

This really doesn’t nail it down. He could still be anywhere from a D1 to a very competitive D3 prospect. Take all the kids who can play. Your son is one of them. Now it gets sliced and diced into projectability at the next level.

Exactly what I'm getting at RJM. You hit it on the head and that is basically what I stated in my very first post when I said ...by all accounts that I've been given (coaches and others in the business) he could potentially make teams at all levels of college baseball. It doesn't nail it down because it isn't "nail-down-able." The category you term as "...all the kids that can play," it is broad, varying, and dependent upon umpteen factors that we have to somehow deal with during the process and hope you were exposed to the right people, were assessed by the right [unbiased and knowledgeable] third party, all while trying to constantly improve academically and athletically. I am fairly certain of one thing; he wants to play and contribute as soon as he can so that at least helps his choices narrow some.

Your response, I believe, highlights the very essence of the reason I started the thread. It is a tricky road for players in this range and, I'll daresay, more complicated and requires more effort because there is a "selling yourself" portion that the top level talent doesn't seem to have as much of. Add the question of DI/DII/DIII/NAIA/Juco in the mix and you've got a redwood to whittle into a toothpick that you may never complete. Good times!

My boy's just a '22, so not as far down the path as yours or others on this thread, but I have a nagging suspicion he'll wind up in a similar situation.  I've bookmarked this thread and will refer to it when it's our time in the barrel.  Really, really great stuff.  

tequila posted:

Good stuff and thanks Backdorslider. I appreciate the candor. I don't think that my son has ever used the word "dream," that's more my verbiage and used interchangeably (probably incorrectly) with goal. The end of his playing baseball will be a sad day but it won't be the end of the world for him or for his mother and I. We're just enjoying the ride while we can. The game has provided so many positive experiences, and so much joy, that he will carry with him the rest of his life that there is no way any regrets could overshadow that, even if it ended today.

Maybe I should have been clearer in my initial post that when I refer to "mid-tier." I'm not talking about mid-tier D1 or mid-tier D3 or whatever. I'm talking about the kid who maybe isn't the second coming of Bryce Harper but is a solid top/mid order three or four year high school varsity starter, conference standout in a good conference of high enrollment schools, who is smart, hard-working, motivated, coordinated, and coachable. I'm talking about my kid basically which is why I started the thread There is somewhere for him but it is hard, if not impossible, for me to be objective because I see what he keeps up with - how hard he works - all the events, uniforms, practices, games, 6am workouts, tests, quizzes, AP class load and homework, volunteer hours, fundraising events, tutoring, private lessons, cages, tee work in the back yard, coach emails, camps, showcases, etc. etc....and this is at 16 years of age and he's been carrying that on for two and a half years at least! So of course I think he's the greatest thing ever. There is no way I could have done all that at his age so I'm just trying to be there for him in whatever way I can. I'm a proud dad no matter what he decides or how all this works out! I just appreciate all the advice and suggestions I've received from this post. This has been truly inspiring, encouraging, humbling, and informative. Thanks folks!

Tequila,  Sorry I re-read my post and I may have mis-understood.   I sometimes get a little carried away.  But honestly, everyone here wants to help in some way... and you will get through this....  Before I started going to any camps, showcases etc.. figure out how far away he is really willing to live.  OMHO this is the first step... once the distance is determined, target all the schools , at all the levels  .  someone may have already mentioned it but once he's gone and especially for freshman, it's a tough first semester. This will help you narrow the search.  Once the target schools are listed look at their past 5 year rosters.  Where do they pull their players from ?  90% in-state ?  all over ?

find out if they are fully funded... and for most D2 D3 and NAIA  , just call and see if you can visit the coach and campus... I doubt they turn you down.  that's an easy way to get some attention and learn the process.

Arrange for your son to get some ACT tutoring....the average kid can raise his score by two points with a little effort. Move from a 28 to the "magic" number 30 and doors will open. A 32 will open even more. Yes, there are kids on high academic rosters with under 30 but this thread is about "mid tier" recruiting and the higher the score the greater the chance!

tequila posted:

Thanks Cabbagedad. I have heard a similar sentiment from a RC I've been in contact with for a P5 camp my son is about to attend. His message verbatim was "Our 2019 class is getting close to be full but we still do need to fill certain areas." Anyone's guess as to what those areas are but that's in line with your RC's message.

Tequila...at this point, any and all contact with RC's or HC's should come from your son, whether it's email, phone call or text.  You can coach him on what to say and help ask/answer questions...but I wouldn't have any calls, texts, emails coming from you....have him handle all of it.

Buckeye 2015 posted:

tequila posted:

Thanks Cabbagedad. I have heard a similar sentiment from a RC I've been in contact with for a P5 camp my son is about to attend. His message verbatim was "Our 2019 class is getting close to be full but we still do need to fill certain areas." Anyone's guess as to what those areas are but that's in line with your RC's message.

Tequila...at this point, any and all contact with RC's or HC's should come from your son, whether it's email, phone call or text.  You can coach him on what to say and help ask/answer questions...but I wouldn't have any calls, texts, emails coming from you....have him handle all of it.

Understood Buckeye and I appreciate the heads-up. I would normally not have any communication with any potential recruiting staff but he email exchange was in reference to camp registration and the utilization of a previous camp credit, which I would not expect my son to be dealing with. The question from me that spurred his comment was trying to determine if it would be worthwhile for us to make the trip (6.5 hour drive and an overnight) if they already had their 2019 class filled. The answer may have simply been to get us to attend but, given that I paid eight months ago, and it is non-refundable, I don't know what his drive to have us here would be for if he didn't want to take a look at him. Just wanted you to have a better understanding of why that communication happened in the first place, and I appreciate you looking out for us!

Great thread. I'll chime in. For 2019s, some really high profile programs are done, D-O-N-E, depending on how the draft works out for their current team and their 2018 class. (Yes, of course, if you throw 95, they'll find a spot). Other P5's are very close (e.g., one recently told my son that they were looking for 1-2 more RHPs, but otherwise were done). Mid-market teams are not done, some have no commits, but they are talking to kids, making offers, arranging UVs, etc.

The earlier recruiting calendar creates a lot of anxiety. It's one thing to understand logically that there are lots more 2019 commits to come. It's another thing to see 2020s committing left and right, and even 2021s. Can be hard for a kid to stay on an even keel. For a dad . . . all but impossible. ;-)

So newbie question.  Did not know that the kid should engage with the colleges and coaches and read that there.  Makes sense.   However, I don't even think 2020 has an email address.   LOL.  Times have changed.  Have to get him one.

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

 

2020 - By all means the kid should be reaching out and making contact and building a relationship with the coaches.  The coaches also understand that 15-17 year old kids are not typically the best communicators or have the best skills at contacting adults.  BUT, it is critical that they lead the charge in the contact department.  I think coaches also appreciate the effort made by the player and can tell when it is a document by mom or dad that the kid "sends" over from his email.  There is a ton of information on here about contacting coaches etc.  You might be surprised at how well they do, I know I was with my son.  It was really strange (and a proud moment) to see how he handled himself in meeting coaches and holding a conversation etc.  Exciting times!

2020.2023dad posted:

So newbie question.  Did not know that the kid should engage with the colleges and coaches and read that there.  Makes sense.   However, I don't even think 2020 has an email address.   LOL.  Times have changed.  Have to get him one.

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

 

An email address is easy....either yahoo or gmail is fine.  Use his name and grad year.....such as johnnysmith2020@yahoo.com    You can always help him ask/answer questions....but let it come from his email.  Once calls/texts start, make sure it's his phone.  Again, there's nothing saying you can't read/review/proof everything.  Your son can't violate contact rules....he can try to make contact however he wants.  Coaches are responsible (and will know) for what they do as far as response.   My son had an email he used....I could keep an eye on it during the day while he was in school, then talk to him after school before he responded.  Also, even if you help.....try to make sure it "sounds like" it's a 15 year old kid writing it, not a 40-something dad lol.  Good luck!!

Oh...and it seems like common sense, but if your son is sending out the same email to more than once coach (just changing school name, coach, mascot, etc)....make sure he double checks each email before he hits send.  It's a bad look when you sent an email to a coach and at some point in the letter  you have Louisville....and later you in the letter you mention Seminoles lol.   Uh, yep, not those two schools....but we did send one with the mascot not matching the school....

2020.2023dad posted:

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

 

So I'll venture a reply here based our experience and education thus far. There are many articles on the Internet about reaching out with interest but suffice to say that I think it's pretty commonly agreed upon that the player should be the one sending the emails, from his own email address. Do some basic searching with your favorite search engine and there should be quite a few results giving ideas of what should be communicated. Ideally the more brief the better and include key things that the coaches might want to know i.e. not a family history, etc. A video link is also good but it should be fairly short as well. These guys are really busy.

My son and I got together and came up with a few different versions of emails that we both agreed upon for various situations. He tries to personalize each one, to some degree, to express that he's done some research as well as to avoid any "uncomfortable situations" that might arise due to errors in name substitution or coach overlap. I woudn't worry too much about the contact rules as that is on the schools to adhere to. My understanding is that the player can reach out to the coaching staff at basically any time. The coaches just may not be permitted to respond. It would be good for you to familiarize yourself with the contact rules and calendars which can be found here http://www.ncaa.org/student-at...recruiting-calendars. Hope that helps and, please, anyone who has more or wishes to correct, feel free to do so.

2020.2023dad posted:

So newbie question.  Did not know that the kid should engage with the colleges and coaches and read that there.  Makes sense.   However, I don't even think 2020 has an email address.   LOL.  Times have changed.  Have to get him one.

Prior to our recent D1 camp the RC/hitting instructor emailed me to make sure he was coming.  Afterward we of course thanked them in person with a firm shandshake etc and I sent an email to the same RC (same email thread) thanking them again for the opportunity, impressed with everything all ON BEHALF of my kid etc etc.  So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

 

Call it "proof read" 

Yes, general rule of thumb is that the player should be driving and initiating everything.  Communication should be between RC/HC and player.  The exception is when you get to the point where money (which the parent will pay) is involved.  

Nothing wrong with necessary guidance, which, at the beginning, is quite a bit for most.  This is a great teaching opportunity in so many ways for your son/s let alone what the schools want to see.

There are lots of threads on this topic here that you can search and you should.  The player needs to drive the process for many, many reasons.  I know it often seems quite counter-intuitive.

I have 2 thoughts about emails, FWIW.

1 - If the kid uses a special recruiting email address as suggested by Buckeye above, make sure Jr. is careful about checking it or making sure it forwards after the recruiting process is over.   Even though my 2017 told his college coach not to use his recruiting address any longer, coach keeps using it, and as a result he very nearly missed getting his medical forms in in time to play fall ball this year.

2 - Emails etc. cannot hurt.  And good videos are a great tool to have, especially after a coach has seen a kid play.  But from my kid's recruitment, and from that of other kids we know, unsolicited, player-initiated contact has had zero to do with where the kid ends up. 99.9% of recruiting is about getting in front of the right coaches, and the coaches liking what they see.

...just IMHO of course.

2020.2023dad posted:

So I guess this should have come form my son?  What about initially reaching out with interest?  My kid is 15 and has idea where he wants to go to school  Is he really one who needs to be reaching out directly to coaches?   I am always worried someone will violate the contact rules.  Any insight on what the player should and should not be communicating would help.   Also, I'm sure that many parents don't trust their kids to do this and ghost write the emails, right? 

Have you taken 2020 to visit any schools yet? That would probably help him/you narrow down the list pretty quickly. Things like school size, weather, facilities, city/country, etc.

Don't worry about contact rules. Those rules are on the onus of the school, not the student. Just don't put a coach in a bad spot by cornering him at an off-campus tournament or something. When in doubt, leave them alone.

I'm sure there are parents writing their kids' emails, but I'm just as sure that coaches can usually tell the difference. Unless your son is contacting an Ivy coach, using the wrong there/their/they're isn't going to hurt his recruiting profile. These guys work with young men every day... they know what they're dealing with. Nothing wrong with a little proofreading, but IMO it's more important for the email to be honest and in your son's authentic voice.

JCG posted:

I have 2 thoughts about emails, FWIW.

1 - If the kid uses a special recruiting email address as suggested by Buckeye above, make sure Jr. is careful about checking it or making sure it forwards after the recruiting process is over.   Even though my 2017 told his college coach not to use his recruiting address any longer, coach keeps using it, and as a result he very nearly missed getting his medical forms in in time to play fall ball this year.

2 - Emails etc. cannot hurt.  And good videos are a great tool to have, especially after a coach has seen a kid play.  But from my kid's recruitment, and from that of other kids we know, unsolicited, player-initiated contact has had zero to do with where the kid ends up. 99.9% of recruiting is about getting in front of the right coaches, and the coaches liking what they see.

...just IMHO of course.

Its interesting that in JCG case email didnt do/matter much.  Our experience was that several offers were from being seen (camps, showcases etc.) and rest resulted from son identifying schools and sending unsolicited emails with video as well as monitoring which schools were active on FieldLevel and many follow ups.  Son cast a very wide net with literally hundreds of emails from coast to coast and got some very good responses.  I think this is critical if the schools of interest are not local and are outside of a couple hundred miles from home.  School he ended up signing with never would have known about son if not for unsolicited emails, videos and FieldLevel.  Many different paths to the promised land...

 

Have you taken 2020 to visit any schools yet? That would probably help him/you narrow down the list pretty quickly. Things like school size, weather, facilities, city/country, etc.

Don't worry about contact rules. Those rules are on the onus of the school, not the student. Just don't put a coach in a bad spot by cornering him at an off-campus tournament or something. When in doubt, leave them alone.

I'm sure there are parents writing their kids' emails, but I'm just as sure that coaches can usually tell the difference. Unless your son is contacting an Ivy coach, using the wrong there/their/they're isn't going to hurt his recruiting profile. These guys work with young men every day... they know what they're dealing with. Nothing wrong with a little proofreading, but IMO it's more important for the email to be honest and in your son's authentic voice.

Thanks for the response.  We just started to look. We are trying to visit schools that make sense first and foremost for 4 years with or without baseball, and then try to attend when there is a camp.  So far we've made it to exactly 1 and I've inquired about 2 more.  All are REALISTIC for both school and baseball. Trying to mix it up a bit from D1 to D3.  Academically, he would probably end up at a power 5 type school in state (there are 2 options) since we prepaid his college tuition a long time ago.  Don't tell the RC! 

   

cabbagedad posted:

2020.2023dad posted:

 

Call it "proof read" 

Yes, general rule of thumb is that the player should be driving and initiating everything.  Communication should be between RC/HC and player.  The exception is when you get to the point where money (which the parent will pay) is involved.  

Nothing wrong with necessary guidance, which, at the beginning, is quite a bit for most.  This is a great teaching opportunity in so many ways for your son/s let alone what the schools want to see.

There are lots of threads on this topic here that you can search and you should.  The player needs to drive the process for many, many reasons.  I know it often seems quite counter-intuitive.

Agree. One of the great opportunities that student athletes get to learn and do something important independently.   Having him drive the process... that's going to be interesting. 

FriarFred posted:

JCG posted:

I have 2 thoughts about emails, FWIW.

1 - If the kid uses a special recruiting email address as suggested by Buckeye above, make sure Jr. is careful about checking it or making sure it forwards after the recruiting process is over.   Even though my 2017 told his college coach not to use his recruiting address any longer, coach keeps using it, and as a result he very nearly missed getting his medical forms in in time to play fall ball this year.

2 - Emails etc. cannot hurt.  And good videos are a great tool to have, especially after a coach has seen a kid play.  But from my kid's recruitment, and from that of other kids we know, unsolicited, player-initiated contact has had zero to do with where the kid ends up. 99.9% of recruiting is about getting in front of the right coaches, and the coaches liking what they see.

...just IMHO of course.

Its interesting that in JCG case email didnt do/matter much.  Our experience was that several offers were from being seen (camps, showcases etc.) and rest resulted from son identifying schools and sending unsolicited emails with video as well as monitoring which schools were active on FieldLevel and many follow ups.  Son cast a very wide net with literally hundreds of emails from coast to coast and got some very good responses.  I think this is critical if the schools of interest are not local and are outside of a couple hundred miles from home.  School he ended up signing with never would have known about son if not for unsolicited emails, videos and FieldLevel.  Many different paths to the promised land...

I've never heard of FieldLevel....is it widely used?

2019Dad posted:

For 2019s, some really high profile programs are done, D-O-N-E,

But how many kids really SHOULD be looking at those high profile programs? My son's best friend, a 2018, went with us to a D2 camp in August at a school that was heavily recruiting my son. Coach sat the friend down next day and said "you were the best surprise out of the camp. You're good, but you need to grow."

Coach told him not to commit until after his HS senior season. He said flat out, you need to grow, you need to get stronger, you have great skills, and there will be a place for you. Don't rush it.

My guess is, there's a lot of kids out there like that. Maybe they don't think they want D2, but the high profile programs aren't for everyone.

baseballhs posted:

FriarFred posted:

JCG posted:

I have 2 thoughts about emails, FWIW.

1 - If the kid uses a special recruiting email address as suggested by Buckeye above, make sure Jr. is careful about checking it or making sure it forwards after the recruiting process is over.   Even though my 2017 told his college coach not to use his recruiting address any longer, coach keeps using it, and as a result he very nearly missed getting his medical forms in in time to play fall ball this year.

2 - Emails etc. cannot hurt.  And good videos are a great tool to have, especially after a coach has seen a kid play.  But from my kid's recruitment, and from that of other kids we know, unsolicited, player-initiated contact has had zero to do with where the kid ends up. 99.9% of recruiting is about getting in front of the right coaches, and the coaches liking what they see.

...just IMHO of course.

Its interesting that in JCG case email didnt do/matter much.  Our experience was that several offers were from being seen (camps, showcases etc.) and rest resulted from son identifying schools and sending unsolicited emails with video as well as monitoring which schools were active on FieldLevel and many follow ups.  Son cast a very wide net with literally hundreds of emails from coast to coast and got some very good responses.  I think this is critical if the schools of interest are not local and are outside of a couple hundred miles from home.  School he ended up signing with never would have known about son if not for unsolicited emails, videos and FieldLevel.  Many different paths to the promised land...

I've never heard of FieldLevel....is it widely used?

I don't know how widely used, but I think it's growing. We used it, helped keep track of contacts and drew interest from coaches outside our area. A couple of the JUCOS my 2018 talked to bragged about how much they use it to manage prospects for their players looking for the next level. A few pricing options, ranging i think from free to $30 or $40 a month. We did the lowest end most of the time, then upgraded for a month or two when I wanted access to the more information available at the higher cost plans.

Iowamom23 posted:

baseballhs posted:

FriarFred posted:

JCG posted:

I have 2 thoughts about emails, FWIW.

1 - If the kid uses a special recruiting email address as suggested by Buckeye above, make sure Jr. is careful about checking it or making sure it forwards after the recruiting process is over.   Even though my 2017 told his college coach not to use his recruiting address any longer, coach keeps using it, and as a result he very nearly missed getting his medical forms in in time to play fall ball this year.

2 - Emails etc. cannot hurt.  And good videos are a great tool to have, especially after a coach has seen a kid play.  But from my kid's recruitment, and from that of other kids we know, unsolicited, player-initiated contact has had zero to do with where the kid ends up. 99.9% of recruiting is about getting in front of the right coaches, and the coaches liking what they see.

...just IMHO of course.

Its interesting that in JCG case email didnt do/matter much.  Our experience was that several offers were from being seen (camps, showcases etc.) and rest resulted from son identifying schools and sending unsolicited emails with video as well as monitoring which schools were active on FieldLevel and many follow ups.  Son cast a very wide net with literally hundreds of emails from coast to coast and got some very good responses.  I think this is critical if the schools of interest are not local and are outside of a couple hundred miles from home.  School he ended up signing with never would have known about son if not for unsolicited emails, videos and FieldLevel.  Many different paths to the promised land...

I've never heard of FieldLevel....is it widely used?

I don't know how widely used, but I think it's growing. We used it, helped keep track of contacts and drew interest from coaches outside our area. A couple of the JUCOS my 2018 talked to bragged about how much they use it to manage prospects for their players looking for the next level. A few pricing options, ranging i think from free to $30 or $40 a month. We did the lowest end most of the time, then upgraded for a month or two when I wanted access to the more information available at the higher cost plans.

My son's HS coaches use it and they've got a network of schools they're able to promote their players to. It seems to work to some degree in that we see when they promote our son and then when a school follows/views his profile and requests his contact information (which has to be released by his HS coach). It seems to work a little bit differently than some of the other ones in that way i.e. more "selective" in who the audience is, if that makes any sense.  We do the $20/mo plan and it provides plenty unless you want all the college matching, etc.

I thought I'd post an update here for those who have so generously provided their time and opinions on this thread. My son went to a camp last weekend at a competitive D2 school and, while he didn't feel he had a particularly great showing, he reached out to each of the coaches individually via email and got a reply from the RC giving him his numbers, where they compare to their starting catchers, and ideas on how he can get there. He also asked for his high school schedule and asked my son to shoot video any time he hits, and send it to him, so that he can track his progress. Since this is really the first direct coach communication he's had I feel like this is a good bit of feedback as we move into his Junior season.

My son went to a small D1 camp recently, 25 catchers and 26 pitchers. They kept the parents pretty far away, but when they went into the pitching building I could kind of see in when my son pitched, pitching coach  asked his ht/wt and watched closely, even went behind the catcher to watch, only kid that I saw him move for, seemed to take a lot of notes. 

Son was very happy with the attention and they told the boys to email for their measurables and evaluations, he emailed the Asst Coach who ran the camp but was with the catchers mainly, no reply. Should he email the pitching coach directly, they may have left the University since it’s Christmas or would we have heard by now if they were interested. 

By the way, as the boys went in to the tunnel area to pitch, the clip board the coaches used was obviously left out for all to see. The first section was a big Yes / No. 

cabbagedad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

... I understand the dream.... but change that dream to a "goal"  and you will end up in a better position when baseball is over.   ...

YES - This is one of the huge challenges for just about every kid and family.  99% of kids looking to play past HS have some version of "the dream".  MLB and/or big time college ball are the visual, at least early on in HS.  So, by the time the player makes that transition from dream to goal and the realistic goal is something other than MLB or P5 D1, the window can be very short for putting together a comprehensive recruiting plan.

 

When do kids usually start realizing the only way to reach their goals is putting forth the extra work?  I'm sure there is a lot of variation on when this occurs, so I'd love to hear when your son made the realization.   

Zia2021 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

... I understand the dream.... but change that dream to a "goal"  and you will end up in a better position when baseball is over.   ...

YES - This is one of the huge challenges for just about every kid and family.  99% of kids looking to play past HS have some version of "the dream".  MLB and/or big time college ball are the visual, at least early on in HS.  So, by the time the player makes that transition from dream to goal and the realistic goal is something other than MLB or P5 D1, the window can be very short for putting together a comprehensive recruiting plan.

 

When do kids usually start realizing the only way to reach their goals is putting forth the extra work?  I'm sure there is a lot of variation on when this occurs, so I'd love to hear when your son made the realization.   

Yes, a lot of variation.  There are pros and cons to travel ball at an early age (say pre-12u).  One of the pros is that discussions of the necessary work are often part of the regular dialog.  I also think it's pretty common for dads (or moms or other) to inject the "it takes a lot of practice/hard work" speech into the conversation when they take their sons to watch ballgames at pretty much any age.

That said, hearing it and actually understanding the reality of it are two different things.  When players arrive at our HS program, one of the things we do is ask who has aspirations to play beyond HS.  When the answer is yes, we use the response as both a motivation tool and a cue to begin (or continue) the education process.  I think most young players start to understand when they arrive at HS and see the few really dedicated athletes who are constantly either at the gym or at the field taking extra reps.  Conversely, they start to understand the other side when one of the varsity stars is unable to participate due to grades or the seemingly sure D1 kid at his HS ends up at the local JC because he came up short academically or otherwise.

Conversely, they start to understand the other side when one of the varsity stars is unable to participate due to grades or the seemingly sure D1 kid at his HS ends up at the local JC because he came up short academically or otherwise.

Interestingly, we're having to have these very conversations right now despite the nice little milestone I posted above. This has been his toughest academic year (junior) by far and he's stumbled a bit this first semester, hopefully not irreparably. We're optimistic that with a combination of hard work the second semester, and potentially summer school, he can get back on track but he doesn't really know what it's like to see a GPA below 3.5 so it's been an eye opening experience for sure. Windows of opportunity for academic-based financial assistance, and even simply admission in some cases, at the higher academic institutions close quickly when bad things happen at critical times in the process but ultimately the parents can't do the work for them. They can only support them through the journey and have the appropriate discussions that enable them to be equipped with the information they need to make the right decisions when those times come.

Zia2021 posted:

cabbagedad posted:

bacdorslider posted:

... I understand the dream.... but change that dream to a "goal"  and you will end up in a better position when baseball is over.   ...

YES - This is one of the huge challenges for just about every kid and family.  99% of kids looking to play past HS have some version of "the dream".  MLB and/or big time college ball are the visual, at least early on in HS.  So, by the time the player makes that transition from dream to goal and the realistic goal is something other than MLB or P5 D1, the window can be very short for putting together a comprehensive recruiting plan.

 

When do kids usually start realizing the only way to reach their goals is putting forth the extra work?  I'm sure there is a lot of variation on when this occurs, so I'd love to hear when your son made the realization.   

I think it all depends on the kid.  My son knew he wanted to be a baseball player from the time he was 3 or 4 years old.  He started playing travel ball on a 10U team that had just won a big 9U World Series the year before (I know, I know...it's 9U, but my point was that this team was pretty darned good )  He was the only new guy....the youngest by 6 months and by far the smallest.  It took a lot of convincing on my part to even get the coach to let him play.  He struggled a little at first...he was coming out of rec ball and thrown into "Major" baseball....leadoffs, steals, etc.....but came around quick.  He was always the smallest & youngest kid on his teams....all the way thru HS (graduated at 17, late April Birthday).  I guess I knew he understood what it would take the first time we went outside and threw when there was snow on the ground...which was when was probably 11 or 12.....you learn to not drop balls real quick when you 1) have to look for them in the snow....and 2) take the glove off of your throwing hand and reach into the snow to get the ball   Funny, I was the only one that ever dropped anything...

My nephew has definitely not realized that his goals require a lot of extra work to take him from really good to great. I'm starting to worry he never will. He's a freshman, but played freshman and JV ball last year. He turned down strength/speed training with the best trainer in our area this off season, and hasn't picked up a bat in weeks. He is working out with his HS team, but its not a great program. He has a girlfriend and is choosing her over baseball right now. Anybody else seen a kid go through this and then figure it out? Any suggestions in guiding him through this?

Zia2021 posted:

My nephew has definitely not realized that his goals require a lot of extra work to take him from really good to great. I'm starting to worry he never will. He's a freshman, but played freshman and JV ball last year. He turned down strength/speed training with the best trainer in our area this off season, and hasn't picked up a bat in weeks. He is working out with his HS team, but its not a great program. He has a girlfriend and is choosing her over baseball right now. Anybody else seen a kid go through this and then figure it out? Any suggestions in guiding him through this?

Hi Zia2021. In my experience, this is fairly common, though I've seen it more frequently during sophomore year with other interests surfacing often surrounding the freedom that comes with driving. Not sure if your nephew falls into this group or not but, sometimes, athletically talented kids have never really had to try very hard because they haven't reached a level where the demands are such that they can't get by on talent alone. Unless he's a VERY elite player, I would expect this time to come soon for him as his teammates, and competition, will begin to physically mature which can change things dramatically (most notably between Sophomore and Junior years in high school). On a few occasions, I've seen kids who were the top of the talent pool in youth ball become mediocre, and vice versa, through the course of puberty. If/when this time comes for your nephew, he will likely react by upping his game (or he won't). Hormones are raging at his age and, as cliche as it is, there is probably some peer pressure involved when it comes to relations with members of the opposite sex. I'd continue to be encouraging and realistic about his goals and abilities while keeping in mind that it's not all bad for a kid to be allowed to be a kid. With my son, I've tried to provide reminders over the years that when his level of effort is not in alignment with his goals then he is setting himself up for disappointment. There have been, and continue to be, highs and lows but I think much of what you've described is quite normal and will work itself out.

Thanks Tequila, much of what you said definitely hit home. Especially about him not having to try too hard up until now. He's also very young for his grade, so he's facing all of these issues earlier than a lot of kids do. He's hoping to earn a starting varsity spot this year which will allow him to face some good HS competition. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope that facing guys much bigger/stronger than him is the wake up call he needs. It's just so hard to watch a kid turn down elite hitting/strength instruction when others (even on his own HS team) will never even have those opportunities.   

ZIA, while what is happening to your nephew is very normal but it can be detrimental. If his goal is to play at a D1 power 5 or MiLB...well those kids really hone themselves.  It's very much going to be which one of these things is not like the other when he stands next to them waiting to be judged. He can't just show up, but that's why those kids are special.

Having said that, those kids also have a drive within them, no one can make a 10, 11, 12 grader train.  They either want to push themselves or they don't.  They either want it or they don't. I would ask him what he wants out of baseball and then ask him if he thinks his actions are going to result in that goal. 

Dont make excuses for him either.  My son has an August birthday, he's one of the youngest in his class too but it doesn't stop him from running hills in the neighborhood or biking to LA Fitness 3-5 times a week.  He wanted to show up to baseball and run longer than anyone, mission accomplished.  He's not the fastest kid or the strongest kid but he's still working hard....being young has nothing to do with it. It's about your goals and who you surround yourself with. Are they better?  Do they make you want to be better?

Thanks Cacogirl3. Sounds like your son is working hard to meet his goals. Your son sounds like my other nephew (8th grade) who has always worked extra hard and has steadily improved. I didn't mean my nephew's age as an excuse, it was just a context related to Tequila's comment about some kids upping their game around sophmore/junior year. I think you are absolutely right that the truly elite kids have that innate drive from day 1 and never need the wake up call I'm asking about. And at the other end of the spectrum, I know there are kids who have the potential but never develop the drive. I was seeking some confirmation about whether there is also a group of guys that don't have that elite innate drive as they enter high school (probably because they've gotten by on natural talent like Tequila said), but develop it at some point in HS. Great point about the kids around them. 

One thing I have noticed with mine, 2018 enjoys the workouts almost as much as playing, he's competitive with himself to improve. He does not worry about being better than the next guy, there's always a next guy. But being a better version of himself each day

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Zia2021 posted:

Thanks Cacogirl3. Sounds like your son is working hard to meet his goals. Your son sounds like my other nephew (8th grade) who has always worked extra hard and has steadily improved. I didn't mean my nephew's age as an excuse, it was just a context related to Tequila's comment about some kids upping their game around sophmore/junior year. I think you are absolutely right that the truly elite kids have that innate drive from day 1 and never need the wake up call I'm asking about. And at the other end of the spectrum, I know there are kids who have the potential but never develop the drive. I was seeking some confirmation about whether there is also a group of guys that don't have that elite innate drive as they enter high school (probably because they've gotten by on natural talent like Tequila said), but develop it at some point in HS. Great point about the kids around them. 

My son did skate by on natural talent, but when puberty really hit him he was able to move his body better and then running and working out became fun. He was 5'7 and 145 at 12u, now he's 6'3 and 170. Becoming more "manly" helped.

It may be easy for me to say, but I wouldn't sweat it just yet.  The kid is a freshman - he's got time to figure things out. See what develops this spring (make varsity and start hopefully) and summer (get some looks/interest from some RCs and hit a showcase or two) and his baseball attitude and desire may change for the better. Just my two cents.

 

As you consider strong academic programs with solid baseball programs, make sure you check out Hendrix College in Conway AR.

Taft1969 posted:

As you consider strong academic programs with solid baseball programs, make sure you check out Hendrix College in Conway AR.

Funny you should mention Hendrix; their pitching coach also coaches my son's summer team :-) It's on our radar for sure but they don't recruit juniors in high school so it would be later this year before we'd be doing any serious talking with them.

Our son played at Hendrix so I know for a fact they are a great school with a solid baseball program.

I concur on Hendrix as my son played against them for years and loved going there to play them, a very unique experience. All of the SAA and SCAC teams should be on your radar.  

Taft1969 posted:

Our son played at Hendrix so I know for a fact they are a great school with a solid baseball program.

Heard great things about the HC, and one of our former HS players is now playing there.

CaCO3Girl posted:

ZIA, while what is happening to your nephew is very normal but it can be detrimental. If his goal is to play at a D1 power 5 or MiLB...well those kids really hone themselves.  It's very much going to be which one of these things is not like the other when he stands next to them waiting to be judged. He can't just show up, but that's why those kids are special.

Having said that, those kids also have a drive within them, no one can make a 10, 11, 12 grader train.  They either want to push themselves or they don't.  They either want it or they don't. I would ask him what he wants out of baseball and then ask him if he thinks his actions are going to result in that goal. 

Dont make excuses for him either.  My son has an August birthday, he's one of the youngest in his class too but it doesn't stop him from running hills in the neighborhood or biking to LA Fitness 3-5 times a week.  He wanted to show up to baseball and run longer than anyone, mission accomplished.  He's not the fastest kid or the strongest kid but he's still working hard....being young has nothing to do with it. It's about your goals and who you surround yourself with. Are they better?  Do they make you want to be better?

CaCO you are usually spot on but why would you say "August" birthday is one of the youngest.  No kids born in Sept, October, November, December, January February, March, April in your area ...lol...  August is very favorable.  But I totally agree it's not an excuse. My son has a late March Birthday. He was pretty average right up until the hit his growth spurt and then he flew past the kids who had been older for their grade, red shirted, or were playing down.  Biggest advantage I can think of is being young. It's basically playing up without the regret. 

catchmeifucan posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

ZIA, while what is happening to your nephew is very normal but it can be detrimental. If his goal is to play at a D1 power 5 or MiLB...well those kids really hone themselves.  It's very much going to be which one of these things is not like the other when he stands next to them waiting to be judged. He can't just show up, but that's why those kids are special.

Having said that, those kids also have a drive within them, no one can make a 10, 11, 12 grader train.  They either want to push themselves or they don't.  They either want it or they don't. I would ask him what he wants out of baseball and then ask him if he thinks his actions are going to result in that goal. 

Dont make excuses for him either.  My son has an August birthday, he's one of the youngest in his class too but it doesn't stop him from running hills in the neighborhood or biking to LA Fitness 3-5 times a week.  He wanted to show up to baseball and run longer than anyone, mission accomplished.  He's not the fastest kid or the strongest kid but he's still working hard....being young has nothing to do with it. It's about your goals and who you surround yourself with. Are they better?  Do they make you want to be better?

CaCO you are usually spot on but why would you say "August" birthday is one of the youngest.  No kids born in Sept, October, November, December, January February, March, April in your area ...lol...  August is very favorable.  But I totally agree it's not an excuse. My son has a late March Birthday. He was pretty average right up until the hit his growth spurt and then he flew past the kids who had been older for their grade, red shirted, or were playing down.  Biggest advantage I can think of is being young. It's basically playing up without the regret. 

In iowa, you can't start school if your birthday is after Sept. 15, so August would be among the youngest. My is a Sept. 23, so we didn't get a choice — he was held back a year and is one of the oldest in the class. On the downside, once he turned 18 he started thinking of himself as an "adult" and wanted all those privileges. On the upside, he's very mature compared to many of his teammates.

We laid out for him when he was a freshman a simple deal — we will provide money and support for recruiting, but first he had to show that he would do the work. He went from a kid that I had to drag out of bed in the mornings to a kid who is harassing others to get to the 5:30 workouts, who gets himself to his job on Saturdays at 6:45 a.m. so he can move on to lifting, and who organizes his teammates to do additional workouts outside of the season.

He's never late for practice, always early for games, but often late for school. 

Theres no holding kids back for sports or other readons in Iowa? No
exceptions? Really? Wow. Thats actually great.

catchmeifucan posted:

Theres no holding kids back for sports or other readons in Iowa? No
exceptions? Really? Wow. Thats actually great.

I'm sure people figure out a way to make it happen, but the general rule is if you turn 5 by Sept. 15, you start school that year. If you turn 5 after that date, you can't start until the next year. I would have started my son a year earlier if not for that rule.

We actually had a kid who skipped kindergarten on our team — three weeks younger than my son, but a 2017 grad. Unfortunately, our travel coach was the elementary school principal who had him skip.

My son always told his coach that the 2017 didn't skip a grade cause he was smart, but because the coach/principal put him in the wrong class.

catchmeifucan posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

ZIA, while what is happening to your nephew is very normal but it can be detrimental. If his goal is to play at a D1 power 5 or MiLB...well those kids really hone themselves.  It's very much going to be which one of these things is not like the other when he stands next to them waiting to be judged. He can't just show up, but that's why those kids are special.

Having said that, those kids also have a drive within them, no one can make a 10, 11, 12 grader train.  They either want to push themselves or they don't.  They either want it or they don't. I would ask him what he wants out of baseball and then ask him if he thinks his actions are going to result in that goal. 

Dont make excuses for him either.  My son has an August birthday, he's one of the youngest in his class too but it doesn't stop him from running hills in the neighborhood or biking to LA Fitness 3-5 times a week.  He wanted to show up to baseball and run longer than anyone, mission accomplished.  He's not the fastest kid or the strongest kid but he's still working hard....being young has nothing to do with it. It's about your goals and who you surround yourself with. Are they better?  Do they make you want to be better?

CaCO you are usually spot on but why would you say "August" birthday is one of the youngest.  No kids born in Sept, October, November, December, January February, March, April in your area ...lol...  August is very favorable.  But I totally agree it's not an excuse. My son has a late March Birthday. He was pretty average right up until the hit his growth spurt and then he flew past the kids who had been older for their grade, red shirted, or were playing down.  Biggest advantage I can think of is being young. It's basically playing up without the regret. 

IMO, anyone who is 17 when he graduates high school is on the younger side. That would include August birthdays. I believe in Georgia -- where CaCO is -- the cutoff is Sept. 1, so August birthdays are the youngest in their grade. 

No doubt our 2019RHP is still growing.  He will graduate  HS 17yrs old.  The stars keep pointing towards JUCO.  He was touching 84 in games this fall.  Still not enough velocity to get any real traction for a 2019.  The head scratcher for me is if he was a 2020, which many 2020's are older than him, he would be right in the mix as a solid D1 prospect. He keeps getting invites to play in large tournaments on good teams that we have been turning down.  Curious to see where he is sitting come summer.  It's been pretty consistent 5 mph gains from fall to summer.  If he is touching 89 come summer than I think things can get real complicated.  Like the most expensive hand in poker, the second best hand, but you have to play your cards to the end.  If he doesn't see the gains that quick but keeps chipping away at velocity than there are 3 really good JUCO's in our backyard.  JUCO's that already follow him.  Luckily for us, he is fine going the JUCO route as are we.  It fits both financially for us and academically for him.  IE, he has zero direction for what he wants in a career.  Play some baseball, knock out your GE classes and grow up a bit.  

2019Dad posted:

catchmeifucan posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

ZIA, while what is happening to your nephew is very normal but it can be detrimental. If his goal is to play at a D1 power 5 or MiLB...well those kids really hone themselves.  It's very much going to be which one of these things is not like the other when he stands next to them waiting to be judged. He can't just show up, but that's why those kids are special.

Having said that, those kids also have a drive within them, no one can make a 10, 11, 12 grader train.  They either want to push themselves or they don't.  They either want it or they don't. I would ask him what he wants out of baseball and then ask him if he thinks his actions are going to result in that goal. 

Dont make excuses for him either.  My son has an August birthday, he's one of the youngest in his class too but it doesn't stop him from running hills in the neighborhood or biking to LA Fitness 3-5 times a week.  He wanted to show up to baseball and run longer than anyone, mission accomplished.  He's not the fastest kid or the strongest kid but he's still working hard....being young has nothing to do with it. It's about your goals and who you surround yourself with. Are they better?  Do they make you want to be better?

CaCO you are usually spot on but why would you say "August" birthday is one of the youngest.  No kids born in Sept, October, November, December, January February, March, April in your area ...lol...  August is very favorable.  But I totally agree it's not an excuse. My son has a late March Birthday. He was pretty average right up until the hit his growth spurt and then he flew past the kids who had been older for their grade, red shirted, or were playing down.  Biggest advantage I can think of is being young. It's basically playing up without the regret. 

IMO, anyone who is 17 when he graduates high school is on the younger side. That would include August birthdays. I believe in Georgia -- where CaCO is -- the cutoff is Sept. 1, so August birthdays are the youngest in their grade. 

Yes August bday is youngest in class.  

He was 13 when he started 9th grade, he will be 16 when he starts his senior year. Thankfully he's keeping up just fine, but that is because his growth spurt hit early AND he puts in the work.

 He showed up to high school baseball this week in top physical form. He wasn't sitting on a couch waiting for baseball to start, he was at LA Fitness pushing himself so he was ready for baseball to start. There is a difference.