Should HS coaches care about a players future goals?

I think that the response to your sons answer does mean that he cares.

 

Baseball is such a large part of a players day, you may not understand that now but you will remember this when he heads off to college baseball.  He can spend

more time at the game than in the classroom.

 

Why would anyone want to attend a program with a losing record if they had a choice?  Competitive players just don't see it that way.  Now if your son said, he wanted to attend the program to help make it better, that is totally understandable, but not caring about the record, I just don't understand.  JMO

 

If the school offers academically what he is looking for, and he doesn't care if he wins or loses, then  why not just attend school?

Cal Tech is a wonderful place and you gotta be darned proud of your son for aspiring to such incredible heights.  I do fully understand your son's feelings on this and I hope that his dreams will come true.

 

The coach just didn't know what he was saying...thats all I can imagine.

 

I had a young engineering intern in my office recently...a junior from a large Midwestern school...his GPA is 3.99 which means he got one A- in one class...all the rest A's.  He had another potential employer tell him his 'grades are too high' and that it must mean all he does is study.  What a foolish thing to say to a young 20-year old man.  (BTW, this kid is well rounded and the comment by the other employer was ridiculous).

 

Don't ever be dissuaded from such grand places as Cal Tech.  Thats better than making the big leagues in my world. 

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying about that particular school. What I am questioning is the statement about not caring about a programs record. 

 

 

 

 

 

Because he loves baseball and wants to play as long as he can, this does not always equate to winning or losing or wanting to play in the MLB. Of course he wants to win just not at the expense of a world class education if available.

Why would the past record mean anything for a HS Sophomore? Nobody knows what the future holds.

Dad, I could interpret the coaches comment a couple of ways.

One way would be that your son can compete in the classroom at Cal Tech, but the baseball experience won't be much different than what he is doing now in HS.

If that is along the lines of what the coach meant, it actually sounds accurate. Right now on the D3 message boards a number of SCIAC posters are commenting that the Cal Tech baseball team does not belong in the league and is just not close to competitive, with one poster suggesting they would struggle to compete in most HS leagues.

I could also interpret the comment that your son can indeed compete in the very best college classroom and the coach feels your son can compete in college baseball with some very good teams at very top academic schools, and challenging him that direction to open his options in the classroom and on the baseball field, because he has upside in both.

Either way, it sounds like a coach who could very much care about your son and his future in college and college baseball.

As a HS sophomore who is starting to look at college and college baseball, I would think the past record should be very important. Unless Cal Tech changes how they have approached college baseball for the last 15 or so years, your son would need to look at the situation and determine if it can be turned around or whether he will be satisfied, from a baseball perspective, with a program more likely continuing its current direction than any other.  The baseball at Cal Tech may be fine for your son, with the experience more than offset by the classroom experience and beyond. 

Better to look at all options first, though, I would think.

Wow! Just...wow! What a dips**t. I've often told my kid that if you are ever accepted to Harvard, Yale, Princeton, or Stanford, you just go. No questions to ask. I don't care if you're a top 5 draft pick - you go.

I would agree  the coach was telling your son his potential skill is at a higher level then Cal Tech. I have never seen Cal Tech play, but have heard about their understandably poor record....but then again, if he can get into Cal Tech, he'll have a lot of other excellent choices with schools that have quality teams. i.e. UCLA, Stanford, Cal, Cal Poly, UCSB, UCD, UCSD etc.. whether or not he can make or even play on those teams, is another question.   

 

Additionally, kid's change their mind all the time on this stuff, especially after they:

1.   have seen the team play

2.  talked to the coach

3.  talked to players on the team

4.  figured out how important playing college baseball is to them.

 

Good luck.

roothog66, I am not sure the second sentence was very necessary.

From what KauaiDad has posted, it sounds like his son is very talented in the classroom and on the baseball field.

As I perceived the question, it was Cal Tech with an understanding of the baseball program and experience being similar to a HS program,  or perhaps schools like Columbia and the Ivy's, for instance, with top academics and a chance for a very different and more challenging baseball experience.

Any coach that would say ANYTHING negative about a kid putting his academic priorities over his college baseball choice is exactly what I said he was.

Cal Tech is on the way up, man. They've won as many games this season alone as they have in the past 10. Of course, that's only one, but still, they broke that 228 game losing streak.

What he said!

 

I am a very firm believer always education first, but I also believe that one must be happy.  Because I know how much time is spent on baseball, you have to be happy, or it doesn't work, or it least would not have had for son.  Staying in the game as long as you can doesn't mean much if the player is not satisfied.

 

As far as your OP, should a coach care about a players futures goal, absolutely, and I still don't think his comment meant he didn't care, just was a little bit not too pc in his reply.

 

 

 

I would venture to say there have been hundreds, if not thousands, who have posted on this site over the years who openly stand for the view that it is okay in college for baseball to come first and academic fit someplace behind that. I am not in that group, but I am also not the parent of their son or living their situation.

I would never call them a dip#%^t and would not be inclined to lower the boom on this HS coach in the way you have.

From what KauaiDad is posting, it sounds like his son has already focused on what Cal Tech offers in the major he sees himself choosing. As he learns more about the baseball program and is able to balance that against his goals in college baseball, if any, he can make more solid choices, assuming of course that letters of acceptance are coming his way in a couple of years.

Just because the HS coach might feel the student-athlete could be selling himself way short on the athlete side does not equate to being a dip#%&t in my view, especially if Columbia and schools like that could be options.

K Dad,

 

Two things -

 

#1 -  we're all capable of inserting foot in mouth at any time, so maybe coach deserves a bit of slack.

 

#2   - He has a point.  If I remember correctly your son is a likely engineering major?  If so, pretty much every other top engineering school has a more successful baseball program, whether it's an Ivy like Cornell, a  big state school like Cal, or a big private school like Stanford.  Or even Harvey Mudd.  If your son is all that both on the field and in the classroom, maybe Tech would not be a good choice for him unless he was ready to focus on the academic side only.  (1-29 right now, BTW)

This the first timeI totally agree with you root! Well said

Thanks for all the opinions. The Kid is 15, although he has been laser focused on this for 3 years the kid still has lots of growing to do and priorities will undoubtedly evolve (Girls are not even in the picture yet). There are other schools he is interested in but it really is too early to pinpoint 1, but he does love Physics so his initial list of schools is focused around that not baseball.. I don't share much with him on what i see here but one post i did share was making sure that when you choose a school pretend that you could never play again and if you would still want to go to that school, i believe he has has paid attention to that comment.

 

Like every other dad on this forum i only want him to be happy with whatever he chooses, if that means going to a "non baseball school" so be it. Of course i would love him to play CF for the Yankees, but i also don't have a problem with him owning the Yankees one day :}

 

Reading through these opinions and knowing the coach in question im sure he was not trying to be a D, unfortunately he came off as one with the comment. Im playing golf this Saturday with all the coaches and im sure this will come up and then be squashed. 

I didn't interpret the response of the coach as putting baseball over academics, the comment he made under his breath was about the bb program.

 

"Of course i would love him to play CF for the Yankees, but i also don't have a problem with him owning the Yankees one day :}"

 

Love this, Kauai. Way to put it all in perspective in one snappy sentence.

Totally agree -- but saying it under his breath ... obviously loud enough for many to hear ... that's the part I'm not cool with. If you believe it, Coach, say it. If not, be quiet in that setting, and share your views with the young man or his parents later.

I don't think that was his intent but came off as so. The comment was disparaging against that particular program, my problem is that maybe some other kid who is not as confident making a decision could hear that from a coach and allow it to change their path. That is why i tried to preference the thread along the lines of should a coach ask a kid in a full room of teammates what their future goals are in regards to schools. Personally i don't feel its right and if its going to be asked it should respected and dropped.   

We have hired a number of kids from Cal Tech and MIT.  These two schools are just different.  Very different.  The kids that go there are unique and I would personally be very uncomfortable dissuading anyone who genuinely wants to go there from doing so.

 

In other words, these are two schools that are so uniquely elite, that I would feel I'd be doing the kid a disservice by saying anything other than, "WOW!  Good for you and I simply wish you nothing but the very best!"

Maybe you shouldn't have posted it then because to one obviously you painted a pic of the guy as a total jerk.  Its hard for me to judge as I wasn't there, but again I didn't see him cutting down the academics.

If you are that close, then why not ask him or why not have asked him before you posted?  Just a thought.

Hey, I hear ya, when son was a sophomore only one school was where he wanted to go, University of Miami.  A year later, with other schools courting him, it didn't seem as important. FWIW, son was recruited by Notre Dame, Brown, Duke, Dartmouth  and wanted to major in engineering.   All of those schools along with the ACC he attended, all shot down any hopes of majoring in engineering while playing baseball while in their programs.

What is a "non baseball" program?

You and he will learn a lot over the next few years about recruiting, then after it is all said and done, you will understand why it might be important to also consider the  bb program along with academics.

Caltech (and MIT) are on a much higher plane than schools for mere mortals like Cal, Stanford, Harvard, and the other Ivies. 3-1 student/professor ratio, avg. starting salary of BS graduates >80K (most go on to grad school), low student debt, 32 Nobel Laurites, 85% of freshmen engaged in research their first summer, etc.  You play athletics (or music, or both) for the camaraderie, physicality, and love of the game.  Your skills are not wasted.  My daughter is being courted by Caltech (and similar) and she would be a fine addition to their volleyball team.  Now, if you fence then Caltech is for you as they compete in D1 in that sport.

The kid who has won a game for Cal Tech each of the past two years was a JV pitcher at our high school. If he keeps it up he could leave the program after two more seasons as one of their all time great pitchers. All kidding aside, he's a great kid with nice parents. They were never deluded about their kid's talent. The kid got a uniform senior year for being a dedicated program player. He pitched a couple of mop up innings.

 

If your son can handle the northeast weather MIT has a competitive D3 baseball program. They're 16-11 so far this year. I was recently talking with a dad of a MIT recruit. The kid's other choices were typically ranked D3s.

 

I'm willing to guess the high school coach in question doesn't understand the magnitude of a Cal Tech degree.

 

(Do you think you're a rocket scientist? As a matter of fact sir, I am.)

Great thread...

 

To answer OP's original question, yes, I certainly believe a coach should care about a player's future goals.  Most HS coaches that I know choose to coach, at least in part, to translate the lessons of baseball to all that applies to life outside of the game.  They want to provide their players with tools that will help them succeed on the field and off, during HS and beyond.  They can also use the knowledge of a player's future goals to help motivate and better relate to each player.

 

Now, that said, many of us coaches are far more up to speed on the current status of the game of baseball (across levels) than we are with the specific academic benefits of any particular high-academic institution.  (I don't believe there are an abundance of rocket scientist HS baseball coaches.)  Therefore, we, generally, are likely to be better at providing guidance as to which college baseball programs may be a match and worth consideration as opposed to which colleges may best match a given student's academic goals.  

 

So, I can see where the coach may have made the comment or asked the question with the best of intentions but perhaps his reactionary comment was lacking detailed knowledge of the academic aspect.

 

Many in this thread have made great points on both sides of the argument as to what the OP and son may want to consider going forward and the OP/ son seem to really have it together so far regardless.

The coach made a spectacularly stupid response.

 

I'm not sure why he really asked the question now.

As a college player I appreciate a coach who is just a coach. Teach the game and manage your players. That was a ridiculous thing for your sons coach to say, imo, but that is a coach only seeing baseball and thinking every kid sees himself playing forever, which is not the case for most. It is rare to find a kid in HS that sees baseball as a means to better his life after baseball and is a great perspective to have. Just chalk it up as another one of the millions of stupid things coaches have said; its because their life revolves completely around baseball they think everyone else sees it the same.

K Dad, at first I took exception but after some reflection I would cut him some slack. First off your wife who was also present had a different view ; and secondly imo the Coach might have lacked tact but he was honest. I prefer honesty to an insincere

" that's great".

TPM brings up a good point; it should be considered and go in with your eyes open. The school is top notch , but will he be truly happy if the program is very bad? Don't know the answer to that question but it should at least be considered. The Coach gave your son and family something to think about.

Funny.....BASEBALL coach says something about how crappy of a team Cal Tech has and that your son can do much better and you take offense to it.  He never talked down about the school, never said he would not get a good education.  He said your son could do much better in regards to baseball and you are offended by that.  Could he have worded differently, perhaps, however he paid your son a compliment. 

I suppose I just don't know how to articulate this very well, but Cal Tech is so uniquely special that I too feel its a little offensive to hear something along the lines of...

Coach under his breath says something along the lines basically saying that there is no need then to better your baseball skills if that's all you aspire for...

This might have...at least sort of...offended(?) me too.  Or made me shake my head.I realize that may be hard to understand if you're not living in my world.  We recently ran across an amazing young lady graduating (undergrad) from a school in the Midwest.  We wanted to hire her...very badly.  We would have paid for her graduate school at Stanford or Cal.  But then she told us her dream was to go to Cal Tech, that she already had it all set up and thats what she was gonna do.  We backed off.  Why?  Cal Tech is so special (and yes, for a group of people it is most definitely 'above' the Stanfords and the like) that we didn't feel right doing any more than telling her we were here if she changed her mind.  She hasn't.
I guess in this baseball case, I wish the coach would've had the same insight.  Maybe its hard to explain if you're not in my business, but that is the way it is and we greatly respect it.

I have somewhat of an insight to Cal Tech so I understand what you are getting at from YOUR profession.  Keep in mind that from the BASEBALL profession the coach had a good point in what he said.  If your kid is good as a sophomore he is already good enough to play at Cal Tech.  I honestly believe that, even though he chose his words wrong, that it was a compliment.