So what would your kid do?

If it is a serious sport (don't have girls flag football here son not being smart I just don't know) you skip prom.  If it is just like a club thing they do for fun you call and see if the other team will reschedule if not skip the game.

When I was a kid our prom always conflicted with the state track meet. Those track athletes fortunate enough to make state went to the meet and skipped prom.  

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

That's an easy one!  graduations are long and boring!!!  At least prom night...  never mind.

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

really?  guess I'm too hard core-   most of the population graduates from HS,   how many ever get to play in a championship? 

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

I bet I know what the choice will be.  I've seen kids get their diplomas (cap and gown on) from the AD at the State championship game when it conflicted with graduation.  

Same thoughts here as FWP.....I had no idea girls flag football was a real sport, but it sounds like it is.  State Championship?  I guess it will be up to the individual.  A girl who never sees the field may head to prom.....starting QB....probably not lol.   I know if it was my son he'd be at the game....but our 3rd string RF probably would have gone to prom

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke83 posted:

 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

The neutral site thing is an issue.  I get why they do it, but we're in Florida and due to geography neutral sites are usually hours away.  The closest is baseball, and that's still a couple of hours away.

I do think the gender of the athlete comes into play.  It seems the girls are way more invested in prom than the guys.

Even my son's girlfriend - who is a total tomboy in sweats and sneakers 99% of the time is taking it seriously.  My son on the other hand ducked doing a tux fitting for so long that my wife and I had to trick him into going to the formal wear place.

I'm curious to see what will happen this weekend.

If I were the parents of the girl I would plan some type of alternate prom type party so girls could dress up and do pictures. Do a dinner and smaller scale dance.

My son would of chosen state championship. Girls maybe more into the prom. 

My kid?   He'd play in the game.  Wouldn't exactly be a tough choice for him

You still graduate if you don't walk. You don't win a championship if you don't play. You can go to a dance, party, and all that goes with it as long as you choose to. You can never go back and have the opportunity to play HS baseball once the opportunity has passed. I wouldn't even have had to ask. In fact if I said "Hey you can play a game tonight or go to the prom?" "Who we playing?"

1. Proms are a special memory that every kid should have.

2. Graduations...not so much....I would just skip that Shu

3. If my kid was a senior I would encourage them to go to Prom, if not a senior I would encourage them to go to the game.

FWP posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

That's an easy one!  graduations are long and boring!!!  At least prom night...  never mind.

LoL 

Nuke83 posted:

hshuler posted:

We have a possible similar scenario with higher stakes.  I'm not trying to hijack your thread but if we make it to the finals next week, the choice for some seniors and parents is, do I walk at graduation or do I miss the graduation ceremony to play in the state championship baseball series. 

 

Exactly, and this is where GHSA moving baseball championship to neutral site is a poor idea (IMHO).  This happens every year, and in past years, when games were played at the school, teams could tweak schedule to accommodate seniors graduation. Now they cannot.

As for the OP, the girls have a choice to make, do I disappoint all the other girls by not being at the game where they are depending on me, or do I disappoint myself at the expense of the team.

My personal advice to my child would be that there's really no question, team first, but it's easy for me to say that since I have boys and both skipped prom in the past for baseball.  A bit more difficult for a girl. 

Nuke - Great point but what I don't understand is not having a third Atlanta area option, like the Gwinnett Braves or Kennesaw State stadiums, for example. 

In the 7A classification, you have two Gwinnett and two teams from Woodstock. The winners will have to travel to Savannah or Rome, which takes away a lot of the students from attending the championship game. Now, it will probably be mostly parents and an empty stadium. When we hosted Mill Creek for the region championship, there were over 500 people in attendance. 

TEAM COMMITMENT

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

I'm pretty sure that not one senior would think twice about missing graduation if we win in the semis. 

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

I think that sums up the quandry.

You've got to pick one, and I don't think either is the correct answer in every scheduling conflict. 

Rob T posted:

Here is a dilemma that may arise at my son's school...

The girl's flag football team is one of the best in the state.  They are playing tonight to advance to the state semi-finals Friday, and then the championship on Saturday.

The conflict?  Saturday is prom, and the game site is about 7 hours away.  In other words - if they make it that far, it's one or the other.

I'm pretty sure if by some divine intervention my son's baseball team had made it to that point, he would opt for the game.  That's my son though - he's going to prom, but it's never been a big deal to him.

I know that some of the girls playing have been heavily involved in the planning and coordination of prom this year, and I'd have to assume it means a lot to them.

So I was kind of curious - what would your kids do?

Does it matter if we are talking a male vs a female?  Does the sport matter? Is money spent on a dress/tux/tickets/etc. a factor?

I guess they are both once in a lifetime events.  To me the state championship would be the choice - but I'm probably a little biased.  I certainly haven't been dress shopping.

I'd certainly hate to be the coach sitting on the bus coming back if they ended up losing the championship game - and missed prom. My god the drama.

 

Commitment was made to the team. I would urge my daughter to play...

We are likely to have the same conflict. The Elite Eight of our state tournament is scheduled for Friday/Saturday. Our graduation is Sunday (my son is a junior, so not our problem). The forecast right now calls for heavy rain on Thursday, turning to snow Thursday night and Friday. So, it's possible, they might shift the tournament to Sat/Sun. We have six seniors, but only two see any real playing time. I don't have any doubt, though, which event will take priority.

Our local D3 baseball team had a game out of town the day of graduation. The seniors on the team received their diplomas on the bus home, and then the baseball team had a special celebration on their home field for their seniors and their families. You can make special memories out of almost anything.

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

That can't be reality....right?

As others have said, commitment is to the team.  My boy would see it that way.  I think that the girls would too.  My oldest had a similar decision to make her senior year of HS.  Prom or Coca Cola scholar.  No brainer for her on the latter.

My girls had a Jr National Vball championship at PSU the afternoon of Prom and we found ourselves making the six hour drive to the Prom while they changed into their Prom dresses and put on their makeup. To the hardcore athlete the choice is simple. You make The Game and arrange your schedule as best as possible. 

That is why, around here at least, they adjust the times for High School ball games  when the SAT or ACT is being given on the same day. They take the decision away from the athlete. Thank God

I think the answer we really need from Rob T - is this a serious sport?  If the answer is yes then you have to play.  Prom is expensive and dangerous especially for the girls.  And as for the graduation stuff, seriously I would do just about anything to avoid anyone's graduation.  For my kids its optional.  If they want to go fine if not fine.  I will be 0 for 2 on my oldest daughters graduations.  Graduations are like hallmark holidays.  Seriously think about it.  Is graduating high school really an accomplishment?  No.  Its a non event really.  This year when daughter #2 graduates I will be on a travel ball trip with son.  I skipped my own college graduation and would have skipped high school if allowed! 

So, in my office, several of the clerks have kids who play or played ball. One is the aunt of a current senior on our team. They all were quite vocal that graduation would take precedent and the one aunt swears that no way would her sister let the kid miss graduation over the ball game. Uh, oh, we might have a problem.

FWP posted:

I think the answer we really need from Rob T - is this a serious sport?  If the answer is yes then you have to play.  Prom is expensive and dangerous especially for the girls.  And as for the graduation stuff, seriously I would do just about anything to avoid anyone's graduation.  For my kids its optional.  If they want to go fine if not fine.  I will be 0 for 2 on my oldest daughters graduations.  Graduations are like hallmark holidays.  Seriously think about it.  Is graduating high school really an accomplishment?  No.  Its a non event really.  This year when daughter #2 graduates I will be on a travel ball trip with son.  I skipped my own college graduation and would have skipped high school if allowed! 

I would have skipped my college graduation if my wife would have let me. Boring!

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

When I was a kid, I could have cared less about prom or graduation. Most of my friends were the same way. We were all more interested in the post-prom and post-graduation festivities.

I think kids want to have as much fun as possible so most (not all) would choose playing a sport over prom or graduation, if you're a serious athlete as a few others have mentioned. I would have been absolutely fine with skipping prom or graduation even if I had nothing else to do. 

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

Okay, but the flip side - say the player in question was the end of the bench guy.  Say he was valedictorian and was going to have to miss graduation?  We could come up with hypotheticals all day, but I don't think we can definitely say one way or the other is carved in stone.

We always want our kids to honor commitments to their team - but there's got to be some sort of individual sliding scale as to what outweighs that commitment. I guess for some it's maybe a family member in a life threatening situation, for some it's a once in a lifetime trip, for some it's prom or graduation.

As for the seriousness of Flag Football... It's not a huge sport I guess, but they do work hard at it.  The school went from only winning 2 games a couple of years ago to only losing 1 this year.  I believe the senior girls would play, but it certainly stinks for them.

It also stinks for the rest of the school who would have definitely driven hours to go support the team - but not on prom night. Now it's just going to be parents in an empty stadium.

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO,

IMO, HS is the turning point in many ways.  Of course we still let them be kids in many ways as well.  Hell, I'm still a kid too often.  Yes, they should enjoy dances and games and hanging with friends.  Yes, we should still take them camping and skiing and provide for their needs.  We should let them be HS kids.  But, HS years are when many things should become more adult-like in regards to learning a stronger sense of responsibility and commitment, learning that choices have consequences, that good things are worth working for, that your word and commitment to others is meaningful.  For many, HS sports is one of the important vehicles to several of those learning opportunities. 

BTW, I'm still curious how you would handle the scenario I painted... I tried to make it something that you could possibly face.  And something like it plays out hundreds of times across several sports every year.

hshuler posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

When I was a kid, I could have cared less about prom or graduation. Most of my friends were the same way. We were all more interested in the post-prom and post-graduation festivities.

I think kids want to have as much fun as possible so most (not all) would choose playing a sport over prom or graduation, if you're a serious athlete as a few others have mentioned. I would have been absolutely fine with skipping prom or graduation even if I had nothing else to do. 

Never went to prom - too expensive.  But did get asked by a couple girls who were...  lets see how can we say this PC...  'generous and giving'?  Looking back maybe I should have gone to prom!!  There is zero reason ever to go to a graduation but agree the post graduation festivities I was quite involved in.

Rob T posted:

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

cabbagedad posted:

TEAM COMMITMENT

ONLY A KID ONCE

Scenario...

Your son is HS senior starting catcher and leading hitter on the team.  There's a huge performance gap between him and the #2 catcher.  Most of the team has come up through the program together and worked for three years building the team into a state contender.  They pushed each other to work hard in practices, work outside of practices on their own, anything they could to accomplish their team goals.  They are proud of their efforts, individually and as a TEAM.  They made it to semi's last year and lost a tough one.  Now, the work has finally paid off.  Fought through some tough district and semi games and made it... State Championship Game.  Bonus - #2 pitcher won the semi game and you have #1 lined up to start.   

Your son and #1P decide to skip the game and go to prom.    Really? 

Okay, but the flip side - say the player in question was the end of the bench guy.  Say he was valedictorian and was going to have to miss graduation?  We could come up with hypotheticals all day, but I don't think we can definitely say one way or the other is carved in stone.

We always want our kids to honor commitments to their team - but there's got to be some sort of individual sliding scale as to what outweighs that commitment. I guess for some it's maybe a family member in a life threatening situation, for some it's a once in a lifetime trip, for some it's prom or graduation.

As for the seriousness of Flag Football... It's not a huge sport I guess, but they do work hard at it.  The school went from only winning 2 games a couple of years ago to only losing 1 this year.  I believe the senior girls would play, but it certainly stinks for them.

It also stinks for the rest of the school who would have definitely driven hours to go support the team - but not on prom night. Now it's just going to be parents in an empty stadium.

Yes, Rob, there are grey area issues and hypotheticals that can be difficult.  The valedictorian scenario is a great one.  Of course, family emergency or a truly important family anything would be an understood priority.  We try to set the guidelines with our baseball program that the expectation is that baseball is priority during baseball season and we often have the players acknowledge their commitment to the guys lining up next to them.  Then, we take each exception case by case.  A good example is Easter break.  We announce at the parent meeting that we play in an Easter/Spring tourney every year and players are expected to be there.  Prior to HS, many families take vacations during that break.  Well, we cannot function as a team if five or six families decide to go on vacation.  It's part of the commitment.  My desire is to create an environment where each player is aware and has every intent to commit to his teammates.  Then, if an exception scenario arises, it can be discussed and weighed but not taken lightly.  When every player is in this place, we have accomplished our goals in relation to team commitment, regardless of what final decisions are made.

For prom or graduation, I know my players would choose to honor their baseball commitment to their teammates and also want the opportunity to earn the payoff for the work they have put in and the excitement of winning a state Championship.  There are several dances that happen during HS years.  I think my players would come up with a creative way to re-enact the dance after the team quest.

Rob T posted:

 

I'd certainly hate to be the coach sitting on the bus coming back if they ended up losing the championship game - and missed prom. My god the drama.

 

I didn't know flag football was that big thing, but...

My son's team just had 10 seniors miss college commencement to play in the conference championship. The response he relayed to me from one of the seniors: "Yeah, lol, **** graduation, graduation sucks."  I told him I'm looking forward to him missing it for the same reason, I'll be there either way.

That's graduation, and not prom, and I can understand why prom might be more important to some, especially girls, but that's my data point.

Our section 'ship has been the same day as graduation for the past  4 years. Unfortunately nobody's had to make the choice yet, but if they did, I'd be shocked if a single player chose walking over playing.  Ditto for the parents, with maybe one or two exceptions over the years.

I know my daughter would choose the game over prom. Who wants to work that hard for a season and then skip the ultimate reward? That is part of being a kid too. She also went to prom 3 times, so by the 2nd or 3rd one, it's really not about the dance itself. It's about the prep, the dinner and the after prom. You can do all those things on another day.

My son skipped prom altogether this year. Not because of a conflict, but because he wasn't really interested. I think sometimes, we as parents, assign importance to things thinking our kids agree with us. Sometimes, we are way off. I was concerned when my son chose not go to prom this year. But that was a concern I was manufacturing out of my expectations. He and his girlfriend were totally fine with their decision. And now I get it and I'm really happy we didn't have to spend all that money. 

In the situation posed above, I really hope the school would do the right thing and refund the money for any tickets purchased. The girls are representing the school after all. 

cabbagedad posted:

CaCO3Girl posted:

When did we make kids stop being kids?

CaCO,

IMO, HS is the turning point in many ways.  Of course we still let them be kids in many ways as well.  Hell, I'm still a kid too often.  Yes, they should enjoy dances and games and hanging with friends.  Yes, we should still take them camping and skiing and provide for their needs.  We should let them be HS kids.  But, HS years are when many things should become more adult-like in regards to learning a stronger sense of responsibility and commitment, learning that choices have consequences, that good things are worth working for, that your word and commitment to others is meaningful.  For many, HS sports is one of the important vehicles to several of those learning opportunities. 

BTW, I'm still curious how you would handle the scenario I painted... I tried to make it something that you could possibly face.  And something like it plays out hundreds of times across several sports every year.

How would I handle that scenario...I would be lobbying either the baseball people or the school people (or maybe both) to move the date.

The thing is that high school means different things for everyone but across the US people can reflect back on their prom as THE event in high school.  The last dance...the last remnant of youth. Cool, uncool, jock or nerd you can go to the prom and you can get your picture taken under the horrible crepe paper archway and be a high school senior at YOUR prom.

My track districts were the day after Prom, as in be there 2 hours away at 8am....we made it work, we made adjustments. The field event people couldn't get fake nails, oh well.  The team had to be in bed by 10pm, oh well! We showed up with our hair curled, with pins in our hair, with half of last nights makeup still on...but we were at Districts AND we got to go to our prom.