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I see people recommend kids go to coaches and ask what they can do to improve and get more playing time. What is never discussed is all the talented starters who go to their coach and ask what they can work on to be better next year. It's one way you separate the motivated players from those who just don't get it. if you don't get better you're running in place. Everyone else will ultimately pass you. 

Last edited by RJM

Would you talk to the school if you thought the English teacher was wrong for teaching Chaucer and not Shakespeare?  I mean the English teacher is paid by tax dollars too.  Point being, where do you draw the line?  No coach tries to suck.  Nor any teacher.  We feel entitled to complain about the coach but leave the art teacher alone.  It really makes no sense but we do it.  Why?  Doesn't the coach deserve as much professional respect as the math teacher?

bandera posted:

Would you talk to the school if you thought the English teacher was wrong for teaching Chaucer and not Shakespeare?  I mean the English teacher is paid by tax dollars too.  Point being, where do you draw the line?  No coach tries to suck.  Nor any teacher.  We feel entitled to complain about the coach but leave the art teacher alone.  It really makes no sense but we do it.  Why?  Doesn't the coach deserve as much professional respect as the math teacher?

Actually, I find the reverse true.  Parents are much more engaged with teachers as there are more opportunities for engagement, such as parent teacher conferences, open houses, etc. 

I had to call out my kid's math teacher once.  Guy was a piece of work and not a good teacher.  Kid and I spent a whole three day weekend studying for a test.  We reviewed every homework assignment.  We spent a lot of time arguing because he would do a problem, I'd check the answer and tell him he was wrong.  He'd look at it and say he was right.  Well that wasn't what the answer key said.  He would then "correct" the answer key and I would spend hours on google trying to figure out the answer, only to find out the kid was right.  Turns out on several occasions they where giving the kids wrong answers to the homework assignments. 

Golfman25 posted:
bandera posted:

Would you talk to the school if you thought the English teacher was wrong for teaching Chaucer and not Shakespeare?  I mean the English teacher is paid by tax dollars too.  Point being, where do you draw the line?  No coach tries to suck.  Nor any teacher.  We feel entitled to complain about the coach but leave the art teacher alone.  It really makes no sense but we do it.  Why?  Doesn't the coach deserve as much professional respect as the math teacher?

Actually, I find the reverse true.  Parents are much more engaged with teachers as there are more opportunities for engagement, such as parent teacher conferences, open houses, etc. 

I had to call out my kid's math teacher once.  Guy was a piece of work and not a good teacher.  Kid and I spent a whole three day weekend studying for a test.  We reviewed every homework assignment.  We spent a lot of time arguing because he would do a problem, I'd check the answer and tell him he was wrong.  He'd look at it and say he was right.  Well that wasn't what the answer key said.  He would then "correct" the answer key and I would spend hours on google trying to figure out the answer, only to find out the kid was right.  Turns out on several occasions they where giving the kids wrong answers to the homework assignments. 

I agree. I've generally found teachers to be receptive to discussing academic performance issues and what can be done to improve results. I've never heard a teacher say at the beginning of a course that they will absolutely not discuss a grade, test result or evaluation.  And the students are all competing with each other for class rank, GPA, and scholarships. I would definitely recommend meeting with a teacher over any issues, vs meeting with the baseball coach, which I would definitely not recommend.

Last edited by Hammer823

In our district, to coach you have to be a certified teacher... right there you limit the applicant pool... then of those that qualify, if you are an "in district" employee you get priority over "out of district" applicants.  The pool gets smaller still.   So what we get are coaches that may / may not have played at the college level, may / may not have ANY coaching experience.   We have come to accept that the program is nothing more than a glorified Recreation program.   On top of that ... the coach makes $ on the side giving lessons to ... you guessed it ... his players and prospective players.   Then he strongly suggests that the players play on a summer team and there is a fee ... a fee that far exceeds the costs and guess what - he coaches it.  Full disclosure - my kids golf - so I am a 100% unbiased observer.  It just seems that as an organization, the school board should establish guidelines to at least minimize the appearance of any conflicts of interest or impropriorties (sp).   But that would mean the teachers couldn't tutor their students for a fee and the band teacher couldn't give music lessons, or the drama coach ....  And the school administration knows ... if they just wait out the complaints, those parents will move on when their kid graduates.  Not saying it is like that all over ... or even in all sports.  Just poor management by the school administrators.

What would it take for you to go over the Art teacher's head to the equivalent of the AD?  if the Art Teacher didn't think that little Johnny had enough talent to paint with oil as frequently as the other students and only got to paint on days they painted with acrylics?  where is the parental outrage meter on that?  probably the only time you go to the Principal to complain about the Art Teacher is when a nude model shows up for the kids to draw.  otherwise, nobody is going to bat an eye.  but parents second guess and question the Coach all the time. 

I do agree that, generally speaking, teachers are more receptive to speaking with parents than coaches.  largely because those same parents are not going over the teacher's head all the time to complain to the Principal.  when your boss gets bad reports about your performance you tend to not love the folks (parents) who keep turning in that sort of news to your boss.  when parents second guess your decisions all the time, it's just hard to smile and welcome parents discussions over and over again about the same points (playing time).

best advice for anyone- think twice before you open your mouth about anything.  consider the consequences of your actions before doing something you will later regret.  you will save yourself a LOT of grief that way and cooler minds will prevail in the end over emotional responses in the heat of the moment.  works as baseball parents and sometimes not too bad with the spouse.

I think the biggest problem here is that baseball can be subjective.  When a kid takes a math test the answers are clear.  When grading an English paper, for the most part, how to use the English language is not up for debate.  But grading Johnny on how he fielded that grounder....TOTALLY up for debate and can be skewed by coaches personal preference.  When that preference contradicts your Travel Ball coaches preference, or your own personal preference things can get dicey. It's a short season, don't engage. 

bandera posted:

 

best advice for anyone- think twice before you open your mouth about anything.  consider the consequences of your actions before doing something you will later regret.  you will save yourself a LOT of grief that way and cooler minds will prevail in the end over emotional responses in the heat of the moment.  works as baseball parents and sometimes not too bad with the spouse.

This is good advice.  "Anybody can become angry - that is easy, but to be angry with the right person and to the right degree and at the right time and for the right purpose, and in the right way - that is not within everybody's power and is not easy." - Aristotle

A little emotional intelligence can go a long way.  I don't think anyone is saying be a doormat and let people walk all over you.  But choose your battles, understanding that most battles are better left unfought.

Last edited by Hammer823

I believe, as another poster said, unless there is physical or emotional abuse, or an injury, a parent should not talk to the coach.  I see no reason, however, that a player should not be able to talk to the coach man to man in a respectful manner from time to time.

My son went to the coach and asked for a chance and the coach said "why? do you think youre a better player?"  My son wouldn't fall in the trap and said "I just want a chance."  Idk if there was any connection but 3 days later he was promoted to varsity.

I had considered shooting off an email to the coach but in hindsight am so glad that I didn't.  In high school it's time that young men learn to handle their business in my opinion, with guidance from the parent when needed/requested.

NewUmpire posted:

In our district, to coach you have to be a certified teacher... right there you limit the applicant pool... then of those that qualify, if you are an "in district" employee you get priority over "out of district" applicants.  The pool gets smaller still.   So what we get are coaches that may / may not have played at the college level, may / may not have ANY coaching experience.   We have come to accept that the program is nothing more than a glorified Recreation program.   On top of that ... the coach makes $ on the side giving lessons to ... you guessed it ... his players and prospective players.   Then he strongly suggests that the players play on a summer team and there is a fee ... a fee that far exceeds the costs and guess what - he coaches it.  Full disclosure - my kids golf - so I am a 100% unbiased observer.  It just seems that as an organization, the school board should establish guidelines to at least minimize the appearance of any conflicts of interest or impropriorties (sp).   But that would mean the teachers couldn't tutor their students for a fee and the band teacher couldn't give music lessons, or the drama coach ....  And the school administration knows ... if they just wait out the complaints, those parents will move on when their kid graduates.  Not saying it is like that all over ... or even in all sports.  Just poor management by the school administrators.

I hear ya about the conflict of interest issue.  But sometimes that works the other way.  In smaller areas like ours, there can be very few affordable travel options and/or decent instruction.  So, when that HS coach IS qualified and is not allowed to provide or help with such services, everyone loses.  

I get regular requests both for lessons and to start up a travel team.  I cannot due to HS Fed rules.  So, on top of the nine months of basically free work, I have to give any lessons during the other three months free as well (not that I would ever charge my own players).  And, I can't provide the much needed travel option.

I could definitely see the same type of scenario with music.  Probably not a whole lot more qualified people to take music lessons from than the HS music teachers.

Last edited by cabbagedad
CaCO3Girl posted:

I think the biggest problem here is that baseball can be subjective.  When a kid takes a math test the answers are clear.  When grading an English paper, for the most part, how to use the English language is not up for debate.  But grading Johnny on how he fielded that grounder....TOTALLY up for debate and can be skewed by coaches personal preference.  When that preference contradicts your Travel Ball coaches preference, or your own personal preference things can get dicey. It's a short season, don't engage. 

Actually, in our HS English is the most subjective class.  Nobody can figure out grades.  In regulars classes 85 out of 100, is 85% and a B.  In English they use a 1,2,3,4 system.  Then all of a sudden at the end it turns into a letter grade.  Nobody has a clue what the grade is.  Very frustrating. 

bandera posted:

Would you talk to the school if you thought the English teacher was wrong for teaching Chaucer and not Shakespeare?  I mean the English teacher is paid by tax dollars too.  Point being, where do you draw the line?  No coach tries to suck.  Nor any teacher.  We feel entitled to complain about the coach but leave the art teacher alone.  It really makes no sense but we do it.  Why?  Doesn't the coach deserve as much professional respect as the math teacher?

I've seen this argument before, and frankly, I think it is a bad one.  If your son wasn't succeeding in the classroom, would you advise him to talk to the teacher to find out how he can get a better grade?  I have many times.  I've always told him that if he is struggling, or he doesn't like his teacher, that he isn't always going to like his bosses, so talk to the teacher and find out what THEY want from you.  They are the boss!

To me it is quite similar to a player/coach situation.  Have him talk to the coach and find out what he needs to do to be successful.

I would never go talk to the Coach of a kid my team was playing for about anything, unless there was an injury he needed to be informed about, other than to say thank you at the end of the season.

If/when my kid isn't getting playing time, I would tell my son to play harder, work harder in practice, learn how to play multiple positions, make the decision really easy for the coach.  I mean look if you can really hit and you can legitimately play 6 or 7 positions you are gonna play in high school.  If you can't play 6 or 7 positions, learn to do that.  If you aren't a great hitter, become a great hitter.  It ain't the coaches fault.

Last Fall my son got named to an All-Star team and got to represent his state in some events playing some other top teams.  The team had 3 practices, and my son ended up batting last and was a backup/utility player on that team.  Now maybe I am just fortunate because I've coached quite a while and have some perspective, but I think that was a perfectly reasonable decision by the coach.

My kid said to me "I've got to get better".  I told him, "that's a great attitude.  You definitely deserve to have made this team, you can see that you can hang, now you can find out what you need to work on to get better than those other kids."   As it turned out, because my kid can at least play decently at multiple positions, he ended up getting a lot of playing time when a few starters got dinged up.  He played a lot of 2B, some LF and even got to play Short for a few innings.  He still batted last the entire time, hit about .300 or so... the top hitters on the team all hit .450-.500 or so.  There were a few players who hit .200, but it was a small sample of at-bats.  Again, perfectly reasonable decision by the Coach

Ever since then he has worked harder than I've ever seen him work.   The only thing I ever said to that Coach was "thank you very much, my son had a great experience and learned a lot from you, we really appreciate you devoting your time to coaching."

I think if we baby our kids they will act like babies.  Just my 2 cents

Last edited by 3and2Fastball
NewUmpire posted:

In our district, to coach you have to be a certified teacher... right there you limit the applicant pool... then of those that qualify, if you are an "in district" employee you get priority over "out of district" applicants.  The pool gets smaller still.   So what we get are coaches that may / may not have played at the college level, may / may not have ANY coaching experience.   We have come to accept that the program is nothing more than a glorified Recreation program.   On top of that ... the coach makes $ on the side giving lessons to ... you guessed it ... his players and prospective players.   Then he strongly suggests that the players play on a summer team and there is a fee ... a fee that far exceeds the costs and guess what - he coaches it.  Full disclosure - my kids golf - so I am a 100% unbiased observer.  It just seems that as an organization, the school board should establish guidelines to at least minimize the appearance of any conflicts of interest or impropriorties (sp).   But that would mean the teachers couldn't tutor their students for a fee and the band teacher couldn't give music lessons, or the drama coach ....  And the school administration knows ... if they just wait out the complaints, those parents will move on when their kid graduates.  Not saying it is like that all over ... or even in all sports.  Just poor management by the school administrators.

Our district requires head coaches to be certified teachers. They don't have to teach in the school district. The high school was a doormat in almost every sport when the new AD arrived (fortunately just before my oldest).  He went after every rising star assistant coach of top programs in the area. Our high school stopped being the "there's a win on the schedule" check off for other high schools.

In all the years my kids played multiple high school sports over the course of the season I never heard a parent bitch about playing time who was right. Sure, coaches sometimes got it wrong on opening day (just my opinion). But they got it right within a few games. The parents who bitched never took off their "my kid is awesome" colored glasses. 

Sometimes two kids are neck and neck for a position. What the parents don't see is who has a better attitude and work ethic at practice. And of course when two kids are close in ability a parent sees their kid as better than the other. 

If you're pissed at a coach write the email. It's good therapy. Just don't hit "send." Save it. The next day read it again. Chances are your thoughts will be "I can't believe I was going to send that!"

Add: The concept comes from Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus. It applies to everything about life in the moment and how you feel once you're rational again.

Last edited by RJM
RJM posted:

In all the years my kids played multiple high school sports over the course of the season I never heard a parent bitch about playing time who was right. Sure, coaches sometimes got it wrong on opening day (just my opinion). But they got it right within a few games. The parents who bitched never took off their "my kid is awesome" colored glasses. 

Sometimes two kids are neck and neck for a position. What the parents don't see is who has a better attitude and work ethic at practice. And of course when two kids are close in ability a parent sees their kid as better than the other. 

My son, as I've said before, played basketball. At the beginning of the season he started. We were all shocked. By the end of the season, he spent most of his time on the bench unless they needed someone to get physical. That seemed more realistic. It was his first season on varsity. His best friend, a GOOD basketball player, commented later than no one worked harder or had a better attitude in practice than my kid. But he couldn't shoot and was too busy practicing baseball to work on it the way he should if he wanted to start.

But attitude and work ethic fooled the coach for a while.

A few more thoughts:

A. I like it when kids come to me and ask baseball questions, be it about what they need to improve on, or maybe why coach something a certain way, or thoughts they may have about something we do that may be good. It shows be both are invested  in something and want to get it done right. Assuming this is cordial and honest discourse I feel like it makes our relationship better. I can see why some people aren't always for it, but personally I'm a fan.

B. I completely agree that there are bad coaches out there (hell feel like I am one this year), but I believe most of them aren't in this job as some kind of power trip. They usually like baseball and like kids and are doing the best they can with what they have or know.  I hate that as soon as something isn't all rosy for one kid, it becomes an issue of the coach intentionally screwing a kid over. Just not realistic most of the time.

C. If you want playing time, prepare for when your opportunity comes, and then deliver. (ps - newsflash to everyone - most opportunities don't come in games. They come in...wait for it...everyday practice. Why will I plug a kid into a district game when he can't preform the task consistently in practice?)

D. I hope the parents that love to rip a coach for the first perceived slight or "misjudgment" have the proverbial balls to applaud him if it turns out he's right, even if it's not in your son's favor. This rarely, if ever, actually occurs. 

ironhorse posted:

A few more thoughts:

A. I like it when kids come to me and ask baseball questions, be it about what they need to improve on, or maybe why coach something a certain way, or thoughts they may have about something we do that may be good. It shows be both are invested  in something and want to get it done right. Assuming this is cordial and honest discourse I feel like it makes our relationship better. I can see why some people aren't always for it, but personally I'm a fan.

B. I completely agree that there are bad coaches out there (hell feel like I am one this year), but I believe most of them aren't in this job as some kind of power trip. They usually like baseball and like kids and are doing the best they can with what they have or know.  I hate that as soon as something isn't all rosy for one kid, it becomes an issue of the coach intentionally screwing a kid over. Just not realistic most of the time.

C. If you want playing time, prepare for when your opportunity comes, and then deliver. (ps - newsflash to everyone - most opportunities don't come in games. They come in...wait for it...everyday practice. Why will I plug a kid into a district game when he can't preform the task consistently in practice?)

D. I hope the parents that love to rip a coach for the first perceived slight or "misjudgment" have the proverbial balls to applaud him if it turns out he's right, even if it's not in your son's favor. This rarely, if ever, actually occurs. 

A new baseball coach was hired when my son was in 8th grade. The previous coach had 17 losing seasons in 20 years. Three years with a 7th round pick were his only winning seasons. 

After two losing seasons the team came in second ** and won the conference twice. The program went further in the post season than it had ever gone before. This was my son's three years. 

Despite three great seasons I listened to parents whine the team's way to the top. Did the coach have personality flaws? Absolutely! Was he a mediocre in game coach? Absolutely! But he brought organization, off season training, work ethic and pride to the program. And he put the right players in the field. No more favorites. No more seniority. No more parental influence over the program.

Coach May (a poster) was a very successful high school and travel coach. I'll use him as an example as I believe him to be the wisest poster on the board. My son would have loved playing for him. I would have loved having my son play for him. Most kids who like to be pushed to their potential and like winning would like playing for him. But I'll bet anything there are parents of former players who think he sucks. Usually the complaining parents have kids who don't like to be pushed. They lack the work ethic to be their best. Or the kids aren't as good the parents believe them to be. It's the nature of coaching. 

** In first place when two pitchers were in a car accident. Lost last four games. 

Last edited by RJM
ironhorse posted:
Kevin A posted:

Frankly I think your answer just makes you sound like a condescending ass.  I think several people got their answers across with out sounding like they were personally being attacked by the question.

 

Ironically, I am a condescending ass, so it came across as intended.

Please accept this reply as my nomination for "Golden Post".

Go44dad posted:
ironhorse posted:
Kevin A posted:

Frankly I think your answer just makes you sound like a condescending ass.  I think several people got their answers across with out sounding like they were personally being attacked by the question.

 

Ironically, I am a condescending ass, so it came across as intended.

Please accept this reply as my nomination for "Golden Post".

ROFLMAO

ironhorse posted:
Kevin A posted:

Frankly I think your answer just makes you sound like a condescending ass.  I think several people got their answers across with out sounding like they were personally being attacked by the question.

 

Ironically, I am a condescending ass, so it came across as intended.

What makes this incredibly funny is there isn't a comeback for it.

Here is why you just say OK coach:

Situation 1, 2 outs losing 1-0, player 1 (senior captain, starting pitcher and infielder) is at the plate.  Major league pop up. Stands at home, never moves, watches the entire play until 2b catch the ball. Goes to dugout gets glove and goes to infield position.  No one says a word.

Situation 2 same game, 2 outs winning 5-1, player 2 (back up SS) is at the plate. Sky high pop up.  Runs 80% to 1b, gets to 1b before ball hits infielders glove, ball drops to the ground safe at 1st.  Steals 2b, eventually scores 6th and final run.  While running off the field, hitting coach lays into him for not running to 1b.  Player response, coach I did run, what do you mean.  Coach screaming now about talking back and not running.  HC comes over and asks player what his issue is and if he ran to 1b.  Response, Coach, I did run about 80% and I was not talking back to other coach, just discussing the play.  HC to player, you have a lot of potential and a great bat but, if you ever talk back or not run 100% to 1st, you'll never see the field again. Player 2 told to run after game by himself for 30 minutes while team has meeting and watches.  Player 2 now in dog house, has not been on field since, removed from batting line up and inter squad games.

Bad coaches demoralize players

RJM posted:
ironhorse posted:
Kevin A posted:

Frankly I think your answer just makes you sound like a condescending ass.  I think several people got their answers across with out sounding like they were personally being attacked by the question.

 

Ironically, I am a condescending ass, so it came across as intended.

What makes this incredibly funny is there isn't a comeback for it.

One possible comeback:

"Great. I'm one, too. Please remember not to use 'ironically' when you mean 'coincidentally.'" 

2forU posted:

Here is why you just say OK coach:

Situation 1, 2 outs losing 1-0, player 1 (senior captain, starting pitcher and infielder) is at the plate.  Major league pop up. Stands at home, never moves, watches the entire play until 2b catch the ball. Goes to dugout gets glove and goes to infield position.  No one says a word.

Situation 2 same game, 2 outs winning 5-1, player 2 (back up SS) is at the plate. Sky high pop up.  Runs 80% to 1b, gets to 1b before ball hits infielders glove, ball drops to the ground safe at 1st.  Steals 2b, eventually scores 6th and final run.  While running off the field, hitting coach lays into him for not running to 1b.  Player response, coach I did run, what do you mean.  Coach screaming now about talking back and not running.  HC comes over and asks player what his issue is and if he ran to 1b.  Response, Coach, I did run about 80% and I was not talking back to other coach, just discussing the play.  HC to player, you have a lot of potential and a great bat but, if you ever talk back or not run 100% to 1st, you'll never see the field again. Player 2 told to run after game by himself for 30 minutes while team has meeting and watches.  Player 2 now in dog house, has not been on field since, removed from batting line up and inter squad games.

Bad coaches demoralize players

And good coaches have the kids backs.  My kid playing in a soph game hits a ball that bounces in front of the plate.  He starts to run.  Hears something.  Stops, looks back.   Starts to run again.   Gets about half way and is throw out at first.  Peels off to dug out. He stopped because he though the umpire called "foul."   Varsity coach sees this and calls him out of the dugout.   The gist of the conversation is you need to run it out.  Kid says I thought umpire called foul, then was all confused.  Both agreed not to let it happen again.  No over reaction.  Worked for everyone.  

2forU posted:

Here is why you just say OK coach:

Situation 1, 2 outs losing 1-0, player 1 (senior captain, starting pitcher and infielder) is at the plate.  Major league pop up. Stands at home, never moves, watches the entire play until 2b catch the ball. Goes to dugout gets glove and goes to infield position.  No one says a word.

Situation 2 same game, 2 outs winning 5-1, player 2 (back up SS) is at the plate. Sky high pop up.  Runs 80% to 1b, gets to 1b before ball hits infielders glove, ball drops to the ground safe at 1st.  Steals 2b, eventually scores 6th and final run.  While running off the field, hitting coach lays into him for not running to 1b.  Player response, coach I did run, what do you mean.  Coach screaming now about talking back and not running.  HC comes over and asks player what his issue is and if he ran to 1b.  Response, Coach, I did run about 80% and I was not talking back to other coach, just discussing the play.  HC to player, you have a lot of potential and a great bat but, if you ever talk back or not run 100% to 1st, you'll never see the field again. Player 2 told to run after game by himself for 30 minutes while team has meeting and watches.  Player 2 now in dog house, has not been on field since, removed from batting line up and inter squad games.

Bad coaches demoralize players

There are some good coaches and then there are some bad ones...Having a double standard coach is one of the worse kinds there are.  Sets a bad example not only for the players, but sets the players who are receiving special treatment up for failure down the road when the standard is the same for all...

phillyinNJ posted:
2forU posted:

Here is why you just say OK coach:

Situation 1, 2 outs losing 1-0, player 1 (senior captain, starting pitcher and infielder) is at the plate.  Major league pop up. Stands at home, never moves, watches the entire play until 2b catch the ball. Goes to dugout gets glove and goes to infield position.  No one says a word.

Situation 2 same game, 2 outs winning 5-1, player 2 (back up SS) is at the plate. Sky high pop up.  Runs 80% to 1b, gets to 1b before ball hits infielders glove, ball drops to the ground safe at 1st.  Steals 2b, eventually scores 6th and final run.  While running off the field, hitting coach lays into him for not running to 1b.  Player response, coach I did run, what do you mean.  Coach screaming now about talking back and not running.  HC comes over and asks player what his issue is and if he ran to 1b.  Response, Coach, I did run about 80% and I was not talking back to other coach, just discussing the play.  HC to player, you have a lot of potential and a great bat but, if you ever talk back or not run 100% to 1st, you'll never see the field again. Player 2 told to run after game by himself for 30 minutes while team has meeting and watches.  Player 2 now in dog house, has not been on field since, removed from batting line up and inter squad games.

Bad coaches demoralize players

There are some good coaches and then there are some bad ones...Having a double standard coach is one of the worse kinds there are.  Sets a bad example not only for the players, but sets the players who are receiving special treatment up for failure down the road when the standard is the same for all...

I particularly love the coach who changes a very effective swing/delivery/throwing/fielding/throw down....you know to "make it better" and then doesn't play the kid because he now can't hit the broad side of a barn/throw a strike to save his life/stop a ball/ or throw a kid out.

Just love those guys!

CaCO3Girl posted:

I particularly love the coach who changes a very effective swing/delivery/throwing/fielding/throw down....you know to "make it better" and then doesn't play the kid because he now can't hit the broad side of a barn/throw a strike to save his life/stop a ball/ or throw a kid out.

Just love those guys!

And it happens at all levels.  I know a player who was a D3 All American who never had even arm soreness, new coach changed his arm slot and he blew out his elbow.   Had to get Tommy John.  

A friend was in the majors. He was told to lose 20 pounds. They told him it would extend his career in the long run. Losing the weight affected his pitching and toasted his arm. He went from closer to back of the bullpen in one year and out of baseball two years later. 

He was told to lose weight as part of the big (at the time) three year contract he had just signed.

CaCO3Girl posted:

I particularly love the coach who changes a very effective swing/delivery/throwing/fielding/throw down....you know to "make it better" and then doesn't play the kid because he now can't hit the broad side of a barn/throw a strike to save his life/stop a ball/ or throw a kid out.

Just love those guys!

One of my coaches in college told me about a kicker he had coached a few years earlier. "Yep, when he showed up on campus, he could kick a 55 yard field goal. And in just two years, I was able to coach him down to 35."

Swampboy posted:
CaCO3Girl posted:

I particularly love the coach who changes a very effective swing/delivery/throwing/fielding/throw down....you know to "make it better" and then doesn't play the kid because he now can't hit the broad side of a barn/throw a strike to save his life/stop a ball/ or throw a kid out.

Just love those guys!

One of my coaches in college told me about a kicker he had coached a few years earlier. "Yep, when he showed up on campus, he could kick a 55 yard field goal. And in just two years, I was able to coach him down to 35."

YUP!  Now that is what I'm talking about!

I don't know how many times this topic has come up over the years on this site but it's probably came up as much as any topic. I had parents request meetings with me over the years about their son's playing time. I always told the players if they had anything they wanted to talk to me about to approach me and I would be glad to talk to them. I also believed it was very important to always make sure players understood where they stood and what they needed to do to stay there or change that.

I always told parents that once their player approached me and spoke to me personally if they were not satisfied with what they heard I would meet with them and their player. I also made it very clear I would not discuss another player other than their son when we met.

What I found the vast majority of the time was the information the parents were getting was totally different than the information the player was getting from the coaching staff. I also found that in many cases the parents perspective on what we should be doing or shouldn't be doing was skewed by their love of their child and desire to see him "happy."

The coach is coaching a team. He is building a program. He has the individual, team and program to be focused on. The parents in many cases are solely focused on what they believe is best for their child. It is very hard for some people to understand the big picture, to be objective or accept something other than what they believe is just. I understand that.

Ask yourself this question. If meeting with a coach can cause him to change his line up card what kind of coach is he? What stops another parent from doing the exact same thing? At what point is the line up card made out by the last parent to meet with him? If anything other than actual performance and the ability to help the team win is responsible for the line up that day then forget it.

I never spoke to a single coach the entire either of my two son's played sports about playing time. Not in rec ball, Middle School ball, HS ball or college ball. I did tell my son's that their performance would dictate their opportunities. And it wasn't the coaches job to make them like him it was their job to make the coach like them. The key was how do you make the coach like you?

This doesn't always result in the result you want. It doesn't always work out the way you want it to work out. The coach can learn to love you and you still might not get the result you feel you deserve. So what do you do then? You learn from it. You grow from it. You persevere through it. You become better because of it. It either makes you stronger or it defeats you.

Coaches are not always right. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes they make the wrong call. Sometimes they don't truly appreciate what a player can bring to the table. Sometimes they over value one player and under value another. So what does that mean? Well it just depends on your response. You "Parent" and "Player" can become bitter and have a terrible experience. You can end up using it as an excuse. You can end up being the reason your son stops grinding. You can end up getting an opportunity and not being ready for that opportunity. Or you can use it as fuel to build the fire. Fire forges steel. Or it burns and consumes.

No matter how long you play this game sooner or later you better be steel. Or this game will consume you and you will be a distant memory. And instead of great memories and lasting life lessons learned for life you will carry with you bitterness and regret from the game. It all comes down to having the proper perspective and the proper response to tough times. Tough times can either be a curse or a blessing. It all comes down to how you approach it and your perspective.

"Coach what do I need to do to help the team be a better team?" "What do I need to personally work on in order to get more opportunities?" Then do all you can do to make that happen. That is very hard to do when those you share the same house with are telling you your getting the shaft. Hell sometimes the best thing that can happen to you is getting the shaft in HS. It prepares you for life and teaches you how to deal with life. You can't overcome the thorns of life if you have never been allowed to be thrown in the briar patch. Throw me in the briar patch and watch me eat. Hey come on in here and join me Coach.

I am a true believer that kids who are allowed to fight will fight. And I believe that kids who are rescued from adversity will never be capable of fighting. There will come a day when they will be the only person capable of fighting their battles. They will either fight because they are prepared to fight or run because they have never learned. Go to the coach man to man. What he says or does is inconsequential. What you do is everything.

Coach_May posted:

I don't know how many times this topic has come up over the years on this site but it's probably came up as much as any topic. I had parents request meetings with me over the years about their son's playing time. I always told the players if they had anything they wanted to talk to me about to approach me and I would be glad to talk to them. I also believed it was very important to always make sure players understood where they stood and what they needed to do to stay there or change that.

I always told parents that once their player approached me and spoke to me personally if they were not satisfied with what they heard I would meet with them and their player. I also made it very clear I would not discuss another player other than their son when we met.

What I found the vast majority of the time was the information the parents were getting was totally different than the information the player was getting from the coaching staff. I also found that in many cases the parents perspective on what we should be doing or shouldn't be doing was skewed by their love of their child and desire to see him "happy."

The coach is coaching a team. He is building a program. He has the individual, team and program to be focused on. The parents in many cases are solely focused on what they believe is best for their child. It is very hard for some people to understand the big picture, to be objective or accept something other than what they believe is just. I understand that.

Ask yourself this question. If meeting with a coach can cause him to change his line up card what kind of coach is he? What stops another parent from doing the exact same thing? At what point is the line up card made out by the last parent to meet with him? If anything other than actual performance and the ability to help the team win is responsible for the line up that day then forget it.

I never spoke to a single coach the entire either of my two son's played sports about playing time. Not in rec ball, Middle School ball, HS ball or college ball. I did tell my son's that their performance would dictate their opportunities. And it wasn't the coaches job to make them like him it was their job to make the coach like them. The key was how do you make the coach like you?

This doesn't always result in the result you want. It doesn't always work out the way you want it to work out. The coach can learn to love you and you still might not get the result you feel you deserve. So what do you do then? You learn from it. You grow from it. You persevere through it. You become better because of it. It either makes you stronger or it defeats you.

Coaches are not always right. Sometimes they make mistakes. Sometimes they make the wrong call. Sometimes they don't truly appreciate what a player can bring to the table. Sometimes they over value one player and under value another. So what does that mean? Well it just depends on your response. You "Parent" and "Player" can become bitter and have a terrible experience. You can end up using it as an excuse. You can end up being the reason your son stops grinding. You can end up getting an opportunity and not being ready for that opportunity. Or you can use it as fuel to build the fire. Fire forges steel. Or it burns and consumes.

No matter how long you play this game sooner or later you better be steel. Or this game will consume you and you will be a distant memory. And instead of great memories and lasting life lessons learned for life you will carry with you bitterness and regret from the game. It all comes down to having the proper perspective and the proper response to tough times. Tough times can either be a curse or a blessing. It all comes down to how you approach it and your perspective.

"Coach what do I need to do to help the team be a better team?" "What do I need to personally work on in order to get more opportunities?" Then do all you can do to make that happen. That is very hard to do when those you share the same house with are telling you your getting the shaft. Hell sometimes the best thing that can happen to you is getting the shaft in HS. It prepares you for life and teaches you how to deal with life. You can't overcome the thorns of life if you have never been allowed to be thrown in the briar patch. Throw me in the briar patch and watch me eat. Hey come on in here and join me Coach.

I am a true believer that kids who are allowed to fight will fight. And I believe that kids who are rescued from adversity will never be capable of fighting. There will come a day when they will be the only person capable of fighting their battles. They will either fight because they are prepared to fight or run because they have never learned. Go to the coach man to man. What he says or does is inconsequential. What you do is everything.

this needs to go in the "golden posts" thread!! so well said. Coach!!

The one thing that never comes up in these discussions is the unfortunate truth that sometimes our kid is just not as good as the kid playing in front of him. Our kid can work harder yada yada but the other kid also has a great work ethic, plus more natural talent. What do you do then?  There's no point in talking to the coach.  If the better kid is a Senior and our kid is a Soph this is a no brainer. But sometimes it pays be more creative and proactive. A couple of times I've seen IF's or C's who were smart enough to see the writing on the wall buy an OF glove and use that plus hard work to earn a spot in the starting nine.

Last edited by JCG

I'll say this.  The OP was about the kid talking to the coach.  It's kind of gone off track to include parent conversations as well.  And that's fine. 

However, one thing I noticed from many of the coach responses, is they are based on their view of the profession.  And we have some really good coaches on here.  From their perspective, coaches play to win, play the best, if you hit you play, etc.  And I 100% agree.  Heck that's why the guys on here where very successful.  But you have to accept that some coaches just don't do it that way.  Sure they give lip service.  Maybe their school doesn't emphasize winning.  Maybe the policy is participation.  Maybe the benefit of doubt goes to the seniors in the program.  Maybe the district requires teachers to be coaches and the best coaching material isn't always available.  Could be a lot of things. 

I think what I see, is the biggest problem is a lack of continual, clear communication to the players.  Coaches that define roles, explain roles, and keep all the players involved seem to have less problems than those that don't.  IMO.   

One of the high schools in my Legion zone (back when dinosaurs roamed the earth) had an Irish Catholic coach who was very biased towards Irish Catholic players. Two players had no business starting over two specific other kids. How did the two kids who got screwed deal with it? They used the high school season to get ready for Legion. They both played D1 college ball. The two high school starters didn't make the Legion team. 

The high school coach won back to back state titles with his lineup due to other players who were drafted out of high school and went on to play D1. Its hard to point the finger at a coach who wins even when he's screwing kids. But the important lesson is the screwed kids didn't let it get in the way of their baseball journey.

Swampboy posted:
RJM posted:
ironhorse posted:
Kevin A posted:

Frankly I think your answer just makes you sound like a condescending ass.  I think several people got their answers across with out sounding like they were personally being attacked by the question.

 

Ironically, I am a condescending ass, so it came across as intended.

What makes this incredibly funny is there isn't a comeback for it.

One possible comeback:

"Great. I'm one, too. Please remember not to use 'ironically' when you mean 'coincidentally.'" 

Hey, now. My Mom taught English for 30+ years. I typed what I meant. I found it ironic that he was attempting to insult me over a characteristic I admittedly own up to. At least in that post. We're fairly educated in Texas these days. Well, most parts. I done some learnin' on my rhetorical tools, I permise ya. 

Gofman that's a very good post. I was trying to get that point across as well but you said it better. But the fact is it's not only in HS where kids will find themselves in situations like that. And most assuredly in life as well. As you know it will come down to how you choose to deal with it. Do you become bitter? Do you get discouraged? Do you allow it to make you a failure? Do you just throw up your hands and prove them right? Do you quit? I see these situations as an opportunity. Others see them as a road block. I see them as situations that not only create character but reveal it. The truth is the life lessons learned through the game will far exceed in value any rewards the game itself will bring. If. And that if is what it's all about.

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