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Tebow

P PGStaff10,000+ posts
I know the Tebow thread got off course a bit, but I wish it wouldn't have been closed. I suppose it was closed because of the religious discussion.

FWIW, IMO, religion is a very small part of the Tebow story. I think the media is over doing that aspect of the story. The football part is fascinating enough and the many opinions, good or bad, are very interesting. I can't remember another athlete who has ever created more interest in such a short period of time.

I don't even care about what he can or cannot do. He's different, he is special.

That said... If the Broncos win the Super Bowl, the following Sunday you will find me in church!
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itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
PG - agree 100%

Watching the game - I can assure you I wasnt thinking about Jesus - or Buddha - or whomever.

The thing that stayed on my mind throughout the game was all of the BS about what he couldnt do - and how the Broncos had no chance. And blah blah blah blah blah.

As always - a heavy dose of media BS designed either to inflame or endear.

Meanwhile - on the field - as the leader of the team - Tebow did what he had to do. Never pretty - but quite effective. Steelers looked lost on defense in the 2nd half on more than half the plays.

Bottom line - and as always:

Performance talks and BS walks.

P.S. Giants will drop him like a bag of dirt if they meet up in the playoffs. Wink
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
I have seen some crazy things in sports. I am sure we all have. Several years ago there was a HS team in our area that was very very average. Going into the last game of the year they had to win their last game against the 1st place team in their league. That team had a pitcher who was undefeated and a big time arm. They also had to have the 2nd place team in the league lose to the last place team in the league. This last place team had won 1 game all season. It was so bad many teams threw JV pitchers against them. Well they beat that team.

So after this teams last game of the year the coach takes up the uniforms. He tells his team great season see you next year. That night he gets a call that the unthinkable happened. His team had made the playoffs. What does this team do? They win the state championship. They go undefeated the rest of the way. They catch fire. Guys who had hit .200 the entire year start mashing. Pitchers who were routinely hammered by good teams are suddenly unhittable. How does this type of stuff happen?

I believe in the "Will" to win. The fact that sometimes things we can see just don't add up. That sometimes just believeing in something so hard and having faith that you can do something defies all logic. People can try to explain it. People can try and deny it. But sometimes there is something going on that we simply can not explain. And its pretty special to witness these type of things. Regardless of what anyone thinks. Tebow believes. And that can be contagious. I for one will sit back and enjoy watching this play out.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
I know the Tebow thread got off course a bit, but I wish it wouldn't have been closed. I suppose it was closed because of the religious discussion.

FWIW, IMO, religion is a very small part of the Tebow story. I think the media is over doing that aspect of the story. The football part is fascinating enough and the many opinions, good or bad, are very interesting. I can't remember another athlete who has ever created more interest in such a short period of time.

I don't even care about what he can or cannot do. He's different, he is special.

That said... If the Broncos win the Super Bowl, the following Sunday you will find me in church!


I closed the topic on Tim Tebow, I did it because after 22 pages of rant and negativity it was time to move on. I know that people want to talk about it, but let's try to keep it positive and I appreciate you starting a new topic that is on a positive note.

I agree with everything you have said, whether one likes him or not, this is a fascinating story. It makes most people feel good, that's important. DK made a bold statement today (he can't stop talking about him) if they win next week it truly will be a miracle.

And if they win the superbowl, I definetly will join you in church! Wink
T thedudesdad10+ posts
I did not like Tebow in college at all, living in Florida Gators fans were obnoxious about him IMO but seeing his attitude and his actions going pro and not hearing how great he and the gators are all the time has changed my opinion of him. His attitude and work ethic are to be admired. On espn the year of the quarterback they do a 1.5-2 hr about him from his last game at florida until the draft and I got to say it really changed my attitude about him. Taking away everything and just watching him and how he dealt with all the doubt and hate was amazing for anybody but especially someone in early 20's. I actually wtched it a second time with my 11 yr old son and helped used it to talk about what hard work and determenation does.

Not sure how he will end up as a football player and but if my son ends up with some of his qualities and attitude towards life I couldnt be happier. Since I am a Lions fan, when I watch AFC I find my self rooting for him but not a Broncos fan.
55mom55mom1,000+ posts
Matt, I didn't think what I posted was comical. I saw the tweet on Sports Center, and saw it as something positive. I know very little about Lady Gaga - I give her credit for being an extremely creative yet controversial artist. She has 17 million plus followers on Twitter. Reaching out to that - much wider and diverse - audience is the point. That's a good thing.
Dad04Dad045,000+ posts
Team sports is obviously all about finding the formula where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Tebow simply makes everybody else play better. His team obviously believes in him, regardless of arm mechanics.

He is probably one of the physically strongest NFL QB's, which allows him to extend plays, buying time for receivers to get open/down field. He is obviously the best rushing QB in forever. I would not be surprised if the Broncos shock New England.
Last edited by Dad04
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by cball:
It's pointless to close the Tim thread becuase as you see it will just re-emerge as another. Like weeds. Unstoppable.


I didn't close the topic started by CD (who began it not with ill intentions) because I thought no one should not talk about him, if you missed it read what I wrote in the beginning of this topic.
MalibuskierMalibuskier10+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:
PG - agree 100%

Watching the game - I can assure you I wasnt thinking about Jesus - or Buddha - or whomever.


I have to admit, I was thinking about Jesus in the second half but it was more along the lines of "Jesus Christ, he's going to pull this off!" He's a heck of an athlete and is killing himself trying to be a good person. He's not the best QB in the league (yet), but he is a pretty darn good athlete who may turn into one of the best. He sure is fun to watch compete....

Dave
p.s. No disrespect was intended in this post. Please don't read that into it.
Last edited by Malibuskier
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Innocent Bystander:
quote:
Originally posted by Vector:
Whether you like Tebow or not, you might find this to be funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...ture=player_embedded


Wait...
Was that one of our own?
Sounds vaguely familiar...


Who actually finds anything associated with Hitler actually funny?

IMO, this is just as bad as beating up on a 24 year old because of his beliefs.

He has accomplished more in his short lifetime than most dream of ever accomplishing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?f...n&NR=1&v=sQFxNDAHh_U
Last edited by TPM
VectorVector1,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Matt13:

Part of my family died in the Holocaust. That doesn't mean that we can't find humor in it.


Some people just have no sense of humor. It is just better to ignore them rather than allowing them to try and infect you with the same affliction they suffer from.

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/downfall-hitler-reacts

From the linked site;

"Due to the film’s international success and Bruno Ganz’ haunting portrayal of the Nazi dictator, numerous segments from the movie soon fell fodder to hilarious parodies on YouTube, spawning hundreds of anachronistically subtitled videos of Hitler getting upset over topical events and trivial gossips."

The one where Brett Farve went to the Vikings is one of the funniest football parodies in the Hitler Reacts series.
Last edited by Vector
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
quote:
Originally posted by Matt13:
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
Who actually finds anything associated with Hitler actually funny?


Part of my family died in the Holocaust. That doesn't mean that we can't find humor in it.


Odd for sure. I suppose that came out all wrong, but I got the drift.


I find it ironic (and perhaps even funny) that some who disapproved of RJM's opinion of what he thought of Tebow, find these Hitler rants amusing. I don't and that doesn't mean I have no sense of humor. Just not the place for it and that is my opinion.
bsbl247bsbl2471,000+ posts
RJM,

I try and stay out of these discussions. IMHO, Ryanrod23 is simply stating that Tim Tebow Walks the Walk and Talks the Talk...nothing more than that? You're absolutely right, there are many athletes that are religious and support important foundations etc...but they are not scrutinized as Tebow has been throughout the last few years.

RR23...thanks for sharing that article, while I knew that Tebow's parents were Baptist missionaries, I didn't know that he was born in the Phillipines. Not to mention, it's nice to read that his coach and teammates appreciate his passion on and off the field.
fillsfanfillsfan1,000+ posts
An endless Tebow thread is shut down because it was off track more than on track. Now in this Tebow 2 thread someone brings up Hitler, which opens an entirely different and much larger can of worms. Can we end this nonsense and talk about baseball, or even football without the word tebow in it.

If you don't want to shut this one down at least move it to Unusually Unusual so it slowly fades away.
Last edited by fillsfan
Texas1836Texas18361,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by cball:
quote:
Can we end this nonsense and talk about baseball, or even football without the word tebow in it.

Sure..I'll go first...

Did Tebow play baseball too?


Benched by his LL coach due to unconventional throwing motion. Big Grin

My boy finished the Tebow book last week and of course loved it. He is reading the Pujols book now. As an old-fashioned parent, I thought I'd have him read these before "Ball Four".
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
Everyone that has played with Tebow says he is a fierce competitor. A warrior. A guy driven to win like no one else they know. He may be a nice guy off the field. He may say all the right things off the field in public. He may do a lot for orphans overseas. But when he steps on the field he leaves it all on the field. If anyone thinks for one second UF would have had that success they had while he was there with another QB they are crazy. His intangibles are what he is about. He skill set was very good for the college game. Needs a lot of work for the pro game imo. But the intangibles he brings to the table are off the charts imo. Quite simply the guy is a winner.
bballdad2016bballdad20161,000+ posts
quote:
I have to admit, I was thinking about Jesus in the second half but it was more along the lines of "Jesus Christ, he's going to pull this off!" He's a heck of an athlete and is killing himself trying to be a good person. He's not the best QB in the league (yet), but he is a pretty darn good athlete who may turn into one of the best. He sure is fun to watch compete...



Now thats funny. I think we have all been thinking that most of the season.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I heard something yesterday on sports talk radio, good perspective (my opinion anyway). God doesn't cause things to happen, people do and other people want to be around those that make things happen.

He predicted Tebow will remain QB next year, and that come free agency time, all those misguided players who need to improve upon their lives will have their agents knocking on the Broncos door.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
From the Book of Champions: God gave us Tom Brady and it was good. Brady stretched forth his arm, took to the pass and slayed the Broncos. And on the seventh day the Patriots rested.



Now if God would only return the defense they had before key players got old.
Last edited by RJM
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
RJM - why are you so antagonistic towards the Christian faith?

It seems like every time I look at one of your posts you are mocking the Christian faith. Sometimes subtly and at other times very directly.
You appear to have no respect or tolerance for religions other than your own. You also seem to enjoy the reactions from some of the devout Christians we have on this board.
(I am not one of those people - but I sure as heck cant miss seeing what you are doing)

You certainly have the right to do so - but IMO - it is very unbecoming.

My recommendation to you would be to start a seperate topic and state clearly that you think Christians suck. Get it off your chest and then be done with it?

Who knows - you may even feel better after you do that.

Peace brother.
Last edited by itsinthegame
Coach_MayCoach_May10,000+ posts
The scripture is very sacred to me. I am a devout Christian. I love the Lord. My goal each day is to try my best with his help to walk that day as he would have me walk. He is the Love of my life and my rock. I understand others do not believe as I do. I understand that some people simply dont understand or agree with what I believe in.

I think it will best for me to avoid these type of threads because it really bothers me to see the Lords scripture "inspired word of God" mocked.

I post this because I want everyone to know that I "trust in Jesus" I "love the Lord" and I strive to be his "humble servant"
And I will not apologize for it or be ashamed of it - He is my King.

And Gamer you will always be one of my dearest friends. I pray for your boys and your family frequently. Your simply a wonderful honest person. Good day all.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
Coach,

I feel exactly the same way about you.

Let me add this - I have been around this great site for a long time.

From Bob H to Julie - from Fungo to CD. PG, TPM, Prepster, Justbaseall, TRHit, bbscout, Krakatoa, Woody and on and on and on.

Despite massive disagreements - despite heated personal arguments - one thing I will say about all of these people and many many more unnamed - is that I have alot of respect for each and every one of them.

They give of themselves without denigrating others.
They share their experiences and perspectives on things.
They make their points - they argue - but they do it in a way that makes it fun - informative - and interesting.

Over time - it is very easy to spot. Just like it is easy to spot religious intolerance.

I am not fond of religious intolerance - many members of my family died on the battlefield to protect our freedom of expression and freedom of religion. I also am not fond of mocking other peoples religions. I don't think it is funny at all and I do think it is very disrespectful.

And I will never just stand by - watch and listen to it - and say or do nothing. Ever.

Again - just my opinion.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by itsinthegame:
RJM - why are you so antagonistic towards the Christian faith?

It seems like every time I look at one of your posts you are mocking the Christian faith. Sometimes subtly and at other times very directly.
You appear to have no respect or tolerance for religions other than your own. You also seem to enjoy the reactions from some of the devout Christians we have on this board.
(I am not one of those people - but I sure as heck cant miss seeing what you are doing)

You certainly have the right to do so - but IMO - it is very unbecoming.

My recommendation to you would be to start a seperate topic and state clearly that you think Christians suck. Get it off your chest and then be done with it?

Who knows - you may even feel better after you do that.

Peace brother.
If you believe I've mocked Christianity and am religiously intolerant you have been very selective in reading my posts. I don't want to do a rerun on my points. It's up to you if you choose to return and reread my posts from the beginning including the previous thread.

My play on words is from the Old Testament. How can you say I'm mocking Christianity?

I hate Christians? My father is a Christian. I married one. My kids are Christians. Obviously from playing three sports in high school and one in college plus a business career I've spent plenty of time around Christians. Besides, one of the word's smallest books is "Jews I Met On the Gridiron." I was the only one on my high school roster.
Last edited by RJM
Rob KremerRob Kremer1,000+ posts
What I find interesting about the whole Tebow controversy is how so many people seem vested in him failing.

Why?

When I look at him I see a young QB who lacks some of the skills that the archetypical elite QB's have, but has found a way to succeed so far by determination, grit, and maximizing the impact of the skills he has.

If he were a baseball player, wouldn't we all love the story?

But just because this young man is unusually demonstrative in his Christianity, all of a sudden people want to see him fail.

I am rooting for him. Not for a reason having anything to do with his religion. I root for him because his is a great story, and I love the fact that he finds ways to win.

In my view, he is a winner. Hard to teach that.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
RJM,

Thanks for letting me know what I can and cant do. Believe it or not - I do know what I can and cant do. And I do read every word - so my "selectivity" during the reading comprehension process is not something I would agree with you on.

Like I said - my perception of you is that you are a religiously intolerant person - who enjoys mocking the Christian faith and those who follow and express their beliefs.

My guess is you arent too fond of Buddhism, the Muslim religion or any other religion for that matter - unless it is your religion.

And that is OK too. That is your right - and we live in America - which I think is really a cool place to be.

Again - I just think it is unbecoming and puts you in a very bad light.
Last edited by itsinthegame
igballigball500+ posts
quote:
From the Book of Champions: God gave us Tom Brady and it was good. Brady stretched forth his arm, took to the pass and slayed the Broncos. And on the seventh day the Patriots rested.


This is mocking and mean spirited too.

My son asked me the other day if in my lifetime I could recall such a positive person who was simply hated so much by some and I couldn't come up with a comparison to Tebows situation. Very very strange and unlike the example used in another thread, I truly find this situation to be an example of "something wrong in America."
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
quote:
Originally posted by Rob Kremer:
What I find interesting about the whole Tebow controversy is how so many people seem vested in him failing.

Why?

When I look at him I see a young QB who lacks some of the skills that the archetypical elite QB's have, but has found a way to succeed so far by determination, grit, and maximizing the impact of the skills he has.

If he were a baseball player, wouldn't we all love the story?

But just because this young man is unusually demonstrative in his Christianity, all of a sudden people want to see him fail.

I am rooting for him. Not for a reason having anything to do with his religion. I root for him because his is a great story, and I love the fact that he finds ways to win.

In my view, he is a winner. Hard to teach that.


Rob - the irony of it - actually the stupidity of it - can be illustrated by a recent and simple example.

2 days ago - Charles Barkley - a beacon of morality LOL - cane out and said that Tim Tebow was a "national nightmare".

Now - lets go to the facts.

Charles Barkley - just a sampling - is:

1) A serial DUI guy - you are more likely to get killed by him driving drunk that you are Tim Tebow.
2) A deadbeat gambler. Currently - law enforcement is pursuing him for a 400K gambling debt he ran out on.

Like I said - just a very small sampling form the Barkely chronicles.

But Tebow is a "national nightmare"

Someone should ask Mr Barkeley if the following people are also "national nightmares"

1) Michael Vick - gangster - dog torturer and dog murderer - who really enjoyed it.
2) Sam Hurd - bye bye Sam - its prison time
3) McGwire/Canseco/Bonds/Palmeiro/Clemens and on and on - Liars and cheaters who scammed their bread and butter and got rich doing it.
4) Kobe - and Big Ben - hide your children if they are around
5) Tyson - not much needed to be said here.

Just a very small sampling of the despicable side of humanity we watch on TV and must endure just about every day.

But - according to Charles Barkeley - Tebow is a "National Nightmare".

For the people that cannot see through that - there is simply no hope for them - nor is there any way of convincing them otherwise. You cant fix ignorance.
Last edited by itsinthegame
P PGStaff10,000+ posts
There are many people who are big Tebow fans. There are many people who dislike him. Then there are some that don't really care one way or the other, yet most of them even follow the story.

For some reason there seems to be an amazing amount of passion involved in those who like or dislike Tebow. I think that is what makes the story so big. Without all this love hate, the story wouldn't be anywhere near as interesting. It's become a "fad" to have an opinion about Tim Tebow.

Love him or hate him, he has accompished something much harder to achieve than being an All Pro or winning a Super Bowl. He has become the most talked about athlete in the country. Maybe the most talked about person - period.
itsinthegameitsinthegame5,000+ posts
PG,

I think it is now much less about Tim Tebow personally (and unfortunately as he is a great role model IMO) - and more about the expression of religion and the mainstream US media's continuing war (now going on about 20 years) on the Christian faith.

I dont think Tim Tebow is that talented of a quarterback - or that he will be a future Hall of Famer. But I do love his committment to the game and his faith, his will and his actions off the field.

The best part of this whole thing - I think - is that alot of people who normally wouldnt be exposed to him now are. A few of them might be inspired to live life like he does.

As opposed to more experiences ala tortured and murdered Vick dogs - or hard core drug dealers like Sam Hurd - or ignorant nonsense form clownlike media prostitutes like Barkley.

Now - just maybe - we get to see what good human beings actually do.

Happy New Year and our best to you and yours.
Last edited by itsinthegame
Tx-HuskerTx-Husker1,000+ posts
quote:
Romo may be the worst "pressure game" athlete I have ever watched in any sport - ever.

You can actually feel it when you watch him.

Truly a gagger. (but a rich one LOL)


Not an informed opinion. Check his stats and they don't support the argument. People then say, "but Romo may have good stats, he just doesn't win". Tebow, he wins just doesn't have good stats. So I guess we judge good QB by neither stats nor by wins. Very confusing.

As for me, Tebow's nothing close to the best QB in the league. Win or lose, my opinion of him won't change. I like the kid because he has heart second to no one, his actions follow his words, and he's a team leader who is loved by his teammates...who he just happens to get the most out of. Every coach would love to have a whole team of guys like that.
Backstop-17Backstop-17500+ posts
Whatever happens in the second half...hold your head high Bronco Fans...

Here is a tribute to Tebow I offer from Mother Teresa/Dr. Kent Keith:

THE FINAL ANALYSIS

People are often unreasonable, irrational, and self-centered. Forgive them anyway.

If you are kind, people may accuse you of selfish, ulterior motives. Be kind anyway.

If you are successful, you will win some unfaithful friends and some genuine enemies. Succeed anyway.

If you are honest and sincere people may deceive you. Be honest and sincere anyway.

What you spend years creating, others could destroy overnight. Create anyway.

If you find serenity and happiness, some may be jealous. Be happy anyway.

The good you do today, will often be forgotten. Do good anyway.

Give the best you have, and it will never be enough. Give your best anyway.

In the final analysis, it is between you and God. It was never between you and them anyway.

-this version is credited to Mother Teresa
D Doughnutman1,000+ posts
He had a great run. What is there, 28 other teams that would gladly trade places with the Broncos right now? I guarantee you Rothesberger from Pitt would.

The kid won. He made the playoffs and won a game. Only a select few quarterbacks are in that club. I expect him to come back stronger next year and then win the Senate seat from FLA in 2018. The kid is a winner.
C cb1210+ posts
^^^Agree with you Innocent Bystander.
My take on Tebow is that he did not ask for all of this attention regarding his faith. But the great thing is that he has not backed down once the attention came. It doesn't seem that he let it go to his head. Instead, he continues to be strong even when people make fun of him (SNL, Jimmy Fallon)and the "experts" criticize his play.
Isn't that something that most of us probably try to teach our own kids? I can't tell you the number of times I have told my kids to be strong when others make fun of you, be confident, don't let your success or the attention go to your head, etc. I wish they could be more like Tim Tebow. I have a little time to work on it, but not much! Smile
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
With Brandon Spikes back and reasonably healthy the Patriots returned to playing the 3-4 defense they abandoned this year to accomodate Albert Haynesworth. The last game against the Broncos the Patriots went 3-4 in the second period and a 16-7 deficit turned into a 41-13 win.

Tebow doesn't impress me as a quarterback. But I was impressed he demanded to stay in the game despite getting the heck beat out of him. In the fourth quarter Quinn was warming up. Tebow has the wind knocked out of him and got his shoulder banged up.

This post game interview is more impressive: since a lot of my charity work revolves around underpriviledged and disabled kids:

Yes, he referenced Zach McLeod, the 20-year-old Cambridge resident who is recovering from a severe brain injury. Tebow, who met with the young man before the game, said, “I’m a little disappointed we weren’t able to win tonight. We played a great team and they played well and you have to give them a lot of credit. Still, it wasn’t a bad day. It still was a good day because before the game I got to spend some time with Zach McLeod and make him smile, and when you get to do that it’s still a positive day and it’s still a good day.

“Sometimes, it’s just hard to see but it depends on what lens you’re looking through. I choose to look through those other lenses and got to make a kid’s day. And any time you do that it’s more important than winning the game. So I am proud of that.”
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
There's no question of his competitiveness, toughness, leadership skills and all the goodness and it's better than the Vicks of the NFL but unless he becomes a real NFL QB, he won't last. What I am impressed with is he'll do whatever he has to to try and win a game and if he's coachable, he can probably learn to become a legitmate NFL QB. But right now, he's not a good QB.
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
I think that is what makes him so impressive, even on a bad day at the office he found good in it.

He's not a quitter for sure, and I have never heard a bad word about anyone or anything out of his mouth.

IMO, it wasn't an impressive day for the coaching staff of the Broncos. I think that TT did the best he could with what he was told to do. Keep in mind that they lost a key player before the game.
Last edited by TPM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by TPM:
I think that is what makes him so impressive, even on a bad day at the office he found good in it.

He's not a quitter for sure, and I have never heard a bad work about anyone or anything out of his mouth.

IMO, it wasn't an impressive day for the coaching staff of the Broncos. I think that TT did the best he could with what he was told to do. Keep in mind that they lost a key player before the game.
Every team is missing players at the end of the season. Most players are playing hurt. It's why getting the bye is so important. Ask the Saints.

The Patriots had 120 transactions this season manipulating their way through injuries. It was the most in the NFL. The Patriots are missing two veteran offensive linemen. They're missing three of their four outside pass rushers. They're missing one of their starting corners. Fortunately they got back two of their hitters last week in Spikes and Chung. Hitting is contagious.

Some Tebowistas have complained he hasn't been allowed to throw enough. He dropped back over thirty times last night. Look what happened. Twelve teams are going to be examining the game video of this one. The twelve teams who play the Broncos next year.
Last edited by RJM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Doughnutman:
He had a great run. What is there, 28 other teams that would gladly trade places with the Broncos right now? I guarantee you Rothesberger from Pitt would.

The kid won. He made the playoffs and won a game. Only a select few quarterbacks are in that club. I expect him to come back stronger next year and then win the Senate seat from FLA in 2018. The kid is a winner.
Is he still a winner on the field next year when the Broncos go 6-10? Their schedule is brutal, not the cupcake schedule they had this year. I would be willing to bet he's not the starter by the end of next season.
Last edited by RJM
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Tebow was good for a league that got off to a rocky start last season. He made a lot of people lots of money. He's good for business.

The Broncos have to commit either way as to their game plan.

Who knows what next year will bring, things happen, things change. Whoever thought that Pujols would be wearing a different uni this season.

It's all how some see it, I can see the positive in this story when most people are very negative about athletes. It's about looking through a different lens, I suppose.

I like to be around positive people, it doesn't matter to me what God they worship to.

igball, we agree!!!!!
Last edited by TPM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by PGStaff:
Gronkowski is just unbelievable. Tom Brady is one of the best QBs ever. Lots of great players. Belichik is one of the best coaches ever.

I will continue to pull for Tebow because I think he is a great example for many young people.
If Brady can get one more Super Bowl win the Montana-Brady debate starts. The stories are similar. Neither were top pro prospects. Different eras make it hard to compare stats. Belichick hasn't developed the successful coaching family tree Walsh created. Gronkowski is the John Mackey of his era (based on season, not career).
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
quote:
Whether he takes another snap is almost irrelevant.


I'm not sure the ones running the Broncos feel that way given all the loot he's guarenteed. They'll also have to commit to running a high school offense to get whatever they can from Tebow if they consider him the franchise player. All I know, if I were a Broncos fan, I wouldn't be too happy right now knowing Tebow is the direction they're going in. Although I'll bet Elway wants to get a real NFL QB running the offense.

When the Broncos finish 6-10 or 4-12 when they have to play a tougher schedule next year, the Tebow fad will wear off real fast. Losing will do that.
Last edited by zombywoof
zombywoofzombywoof1,000+ posts
Eli Manning has been a great story this year. Being asked by knucklehead reporter and radio host Michael Kay if he considered himself an elite QB.

Of course Eli answered he was and being a SB MVP, he was justified by saying so and of course the media ran crazy with it. What else is he supposed to say? The media loves baiting because Eli is as laid back but fierce competitor there is.

Turns out Eli more than backed it up ad was able to win a Division title and move on to the next round of the playoffs with a maligned team thru most of the year and is on the verge of possibly getting to another NFC Championship game. That's a story. New England slapping around the Broncos and Brady doing what he does..That's a story.

I think it's safe to say that many would love to see a Patriots/Gianrs rematch in the Super Bowl and couls very well happen. This Tebow stuff is dead now.
Last edited by zombywoof
play baseballplay baseball1,000+ posts
I don't care much about football---what impressed me about Tebow is that he made me want to watch his games and get interested in football again.

I've read a number of the links to stories about him and his positive behaviors, especially around sick and/or disabled people.....what REALLY impresses me about him is that he is 24 years old.

The maturity and grace that he has is totally amazing to me. He is 24 years old. 24. Wow.

Talk about someone who has made a difference in the world--he has. I hope he is able to do that for a good long time.
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
quote:
Originally posted by Pop Up Hitter dad:
The next thing we'll see is a Satan worshiping QB.

The anti-Tebow?

Sounds like a good movie.
Satan came and went. It was Kenny Stabler. Stabler lived large. Had he played in NY he would have been more legendary than Namath.
Last edited by RJM
fenwaysouthfenwaysouth10,000+ posts
Can we put a "fork in it" on this Tebow discussion? I think he is a fine upstanding young man, and I'd have no objection if my kids hung around him. As for his religuous beliefs, they are HIS religous beliefs and none of my business. His religion has nothing to do with his public job as a professional athlete. As for his QBing & decision making, he has a long way to go.

I hope Tebow succeeds because he is a max effort guy, and I like max effort guys. Denver is "done like a dinner". Most of us saw the game or heard about it.

Can we move the discussion to relevence.....talk about Brady, Manning, Smith and Flacco?
Last edited by fenwaysouth
hokieonehokieone5,000+ posts
I just listened to a news report on the commercial done during the Broncos-Patriots game by Focus on the Family, having a bunch of cute kids quoting John 3:16, which reportedly has been the #1 search term on the internet over the past week. Sure beats people surfing for a lot of other things.

Tebow wasn't mentioned.

I'm sure folks will howl over the commercial that wouldn't mind at all if the lingerie bowl were advertised, or how great it is to drink some more Bud, or whatever.

The baseball link to all of this? It opens up a world of marketing opportunities for every foul line that is 316'. Smile
Tx-HuskerTx-Husker1,000+ posts
I believe in Tim Tebow, by Rick Reilly

I've come to believe in Tim Tebow, but not for what he does on a football field, which is still three parts Dr. Jekyll and two parts Mr. Hyde.

No, I've come to believe in Tim Tebow for what he does off a football field, which is represent the best parts of us, the parts I want to be and so rarely am.

Who among us is this selfless? con't...
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
A few years ago, during season, son led a group of his teammates to the childrens Hospital. One of the patients, recovering from a tumor the size of a grapefruit in his chest (he actually had to have most of the chest wall removed and plates placed in which have to be replaced each year as he grows).

My son told me that his mom told him that he walks 2 miles everyday to get stronger, on his own and has been cleared to play contact sports. His mom called up the next day to say how inspired her son was to have the players come see him, my son actually said that he was confused, that the player was inspired as it seemed to him it was the other way around.

I get it.

We've known about Tebow here in FL for many years, now the rest of the country is finding out, and many understanding why they erected a statue of him up at UF, not just because of his athletic accomplishments, but personal achievements as well.

It's a good story.
infielddadinfielddad10,000+ posts
Media information about the silent off field actions of athletes like Tebow can be wonderful.
I have been following this one between Justin Blackmon and Olivia Hamilton for several months, since I first saw it on Outside the Lines.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7023005

Made it tough for me to root too hard against the Cowboys when Oklahoma State played Stanford in the Fiesta Bowl...knowing Olivia was in the stands almost at the end of her treatments and Justin still standing with her.
Last edited by infielddad
TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Teaching Elder posted:

I have to admit it.  The Mets are ruining baseball.  They have gotten advanced A pitchers to let Tebow improve his stats against them and look much better over the course of a month.  https://www.usatoday.com/story...ent-surge/491632001/

They will be corrupting MLB pitchers by the end of the season. 

You are in the wrong Tebow thread.  Last post before yours was 5+ years ago.

TI Trust In Him5,000+ posts
Steve A. posted:
RJM posted:

.056, 11 whiffs in 18 at bats

Batting .056, Tim Tebow sent to minor-league camp by Mets

http://www.chicagotribune.com/...-20180313-story.html

This is a perfect illustration of just how difficult baseball is at the highest level. Here you have an elite athlete who has now had a good deal of time to adjust & he is simply overmatched trying to compete. Much like Michael Jordan was.

As with any of the highest level sports, there is much more involved than being an elite athlete.  I've mentioned this before but the mental aspect of baseball, understanding the game and being a student of the game will give you the necessary tools along with your talent to become a pro baseball athlete.  You need them all working together.

Buckeye 2015Buckeye 201510,000+ posts

Unfortunately I think this experiment is over....both in the mind of the Mets and probably in Tebow himself.  .056 and striking out 11 out of 18 times isn't even remotely workable.  I get it that he's been up against some major league pitching, but some of them are fringe MLB guys at best.  I think he would be done if he was 23 and hitting like this.....at this point, if he's kept around for the rest of the year, I think the Mets are admitting that it's more of a sideshow act than a legitimate attempt at finding a future MLB player.  I'll give him credit for tryiing...and I think he's really tried to put in the time it would take to pull it off.......but after seeing my son attempt to get back to hitting D1 pitching this spring after taking 2 years off, I can't imagine what it's like for a guy to try to do it against professional pitching.

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

Tebow was an exceptional college football player. His excellence at the pro football level is extremely up for debate. Being big, strong and fast doesn’t necessarily mean overall athleticism. He’s very awkward in the outfield and throwing. 

Could Tebow have become a pro baseball player out of high school or college baseball? He possibly could have been a Kirk Gibson if the rough edges had been smoothed out.

Last edited by RJM
D Dominik8510,000+ posts

I still don't think he ever will be a legit mlb player and his current ops is not really sustainable (over 400 babip) and will regress but he still is about a league average player after not having played for more than a decade and never really having played at a high level. Sure he is older than the guys he faces but those guys have played high level showcases or even college and never stopped practicing baseball.

Even if Tebow is never making it he is doing a great job holding his own as a 30 year old who has never played at a high level. It probably is a marketing stunt by the mets but he is not embarrassing himself out there like so many thought and his first workouts indicated.

I think we can already say his experiment works much better than MJ did.

But realistically of course he is about a league average hitter at best as a 30 year old who can't really play defense other than an outfield corner, so he still isn't really an mlb prospect. But he is doing a respectable job, everyone who is laughing about him: try to walk on to A ball out of your office at a 30 year old and try to compete with 20 year old really good baseball athletes...

 

 

Last edited by Dominik85
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Dominik85 posted:

I still don't think he ever will be a legit mlb player and his current ops is not really sustainable (over 400 babip) and will regress but he still is about a league average player after not having played for more than a decade and never really having played at a high level. Sure he is older than the guys he faces but those guys have played high level showcases or even college and never stopped practicing baseball.

Even if Tebow is never making it he is doing a great job holding his own as a 30 year old who has never played at a high level. It probably is a marketing stunt by the mets but he is not embarrassing himself out there like so many thought and his first workouts indicated.

I think we can already say his experiment works much better than MJ did.

But realistically of course he is about a league average hitter at best as a 30 year old who can't really play defense other than an outfield corner, so he still isn't really an mlb prospect. But he is doing a respectable job, everyone who is laughing about him: try ato walk on to A ball out of your office at a 30 year old and try to compete with 20 year old really good baseball athletes...

 

 

If he wasn’t Tim Tebow, PR stunt he wouldn’t be in the minors. How many other 31yo** AA players are there? The typical AA player is 24.

The Mets admitted Tebow is a PR stunt. The more the Mets win the less lik,ey Tebow is to get called up. The best PR is winning.

Tebow is a non baseball stealing, singles hitting, defensive liability, who strikes out 40% of the time. MLB pitchers would eat him alive. 

Who would you start Tebow over? Cespedes? Conforto? Bruce? I say call up Tebow, embarrass him and get it over with. 

** playing age is what the player turns during the season

 

everyone who is laughing about him: try to walk on to A ball out of your office at a 30 year old and try to compete with 20 year old really good baseball athletes...

No one else gets the chance because it’s a waste if time. Tebow did not walk out of an office. He trained diligently for this PR stunt.

Last edited by RJM
D 2019Dad10,000+ posts

All of these can be true (and IMHO are true):

(1) it's a publicity stunt by the Mets

(2) It's absolutely remarkable to not play baseball since junior year in high school, and be able to be an average AA hitter at age 30. Michael Jordan, who IIRC was a pretty good athlete, didn't come close. 

(3) Tebow is not a legitimate MLB prospect 

I don't begrudge the guy #2. In fact, I'm kind of amazed. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
adbono posted:

Why is anyone even talking about this ??  It isn't a story.  It's a party trick.

Can Tebow balance a martini olive on his nose and catch it in his mouth? A couple of nights ago I saw Charles Barkley balance a cookie on his forehead and catch it in his mouth. We all got to see how big Barkley’s mouth really is. It’s been enjoyable watching Barkley begrudgingly admit the Celtics are very good. He hates the Celtics.

Last edited by RJM
Buckeye 2015Buckeye 201510,000+ posts

I don't have a problem with him playing.  He is doing as well as any other AA guy.....though the 52 strikeouts out of 112 AB's (46%) would lead you to think that AA is probably the limit of where he can play.  If it brings some fans to the games, then so be it....no different than any other minor league "attraction"...and anyone who attends minor league games knows there are a lot of them.....the Chicken, Jake the Diamond Dog, Birdzerk, Miron Noodleman before he passed away this winter, etc, etc, etc.  All designed to draw fans.  Difference is Tebow is a player....not a between innings sideshow.  I guess I don't see the difference.....not sure why everyone gets so bent out of shape over him playing. 

C cabbagedadHSBaseballWeb member since 2011

I guess I took my eye off the ball.  It took this updated thread to push me to check out his current line.  The most interesting thing I found, the thing that I apparently missed for the last year plus, is the (fairly) new name of his current affiliation team...  Binghamton Rumble Ponies.  The name is apparently a tribute to the abundance of carousels in the area and the hats have an image of a horse with a pole thru it.  Hmmm... the mighty Rumble Ponies. ?? 

Sorry, I'm easily distracted... back to the topic... 

So a current teammate of Tim's is from our area, been progressing gradually in the minors, had one stint in AAA and is a consistent .300 + hitter with power at every level thus far.  His minors path has taken six years to date.  He's 26.   I'm on both sides of the Tebow argument (I actually think 2019Dad's recent post sums it nicely) but this is a real life example of the guy who may never get the call up and at some point in the near future, it may very well be because Tim got the call instead of him.  

I still can't get the image of a carousel pony on a professional player's hat out of my mind.

Last edited by cabbagedad
A adbono10,000+ posts
cabbagedad posted:

I guess I took my eye off the ball.  It took this updated thread to push me to check out his current line.  The most interesting thing I found, the thing that I apparently missed for the last year plus, is the (fairly) new name of his current affiliation team...  Binghamton Rumble Ponies.  The name is apparently a tribute to the abundance of carousels in the area and the hats have an image of a horse with a pole thru it.  Hmmm... the mighty Rumble Ponies. ?? 

Sorry, I'm easily distracted... back to the topic... 

So a current teammate of Tim's is from our area, been progressing gradually in the minors, had one stint in AAA and is a consistent ............300 + hitter with power.  His minors path has taken six years to date.  He's 26.   I'm on both sides of the Tebow argument (I actually think 2019Dad's recent post sums it nicely) but this is a real life example of the guy who may never get the call up and at some point in the near future, it may very well be because Tim got the call instead of him.  

I still can't get the image of a carousel pony on a professional player's hat out of my mind.

Very appropriate metaphor if you ask me. And your point is well taken about any advancement that Tebow gets is at the expense of someone more deserving. That’s why baseball guys don’t like it that Tebow is playing, and that’s why those that aren’t baseball guys don’t get it. 

TE Teaching Elder5,000+ posts
adbono posted:
cabbagedad posted:

I guess I took my eye off the ball.  It took this updated thread to push me to check out his current line.  The most interesting thing I found, the thing that I apparently missed for the last year plus, is the (fairly) new name of his current affiliation team...  Binghamton Rumble Ponies.  The name is apparently a tribute to the abundance of carousels in the area and the hats have an image of a horse with a pole thru it.  Hmmm... the mighty Rumble Ponies. ?? 

Sorry, I'm easily distracted... back to the topic... 

So a current teammate of Tim's is from our area, been progressing gradually in the minors, had one stint in AAA and is a consistent ............300 + hitter with power.  His minors path has taken six years to date.  He's 26.   I'm on both sides of the Tebow argument (I actually think 2019Dad's recent post sums it nicely) but this is a real life example of the guy who may never get the call up and at some point in the near future, it may very well be because Tim got the call instead of him.  

I still can't get the image of a carousel pony on a professional player's hat out of my mind.

Very appropriate metaphor if you ask me. And your point is well taken about any advancement that Tebow gets is at the expense of someone more deserving. That’s why baseball guys don’t like it that Tebow is playing, and that’s why those that aren’t baseball guys don’t get it. 

Who exactly is entitled to a baseball career or a call up to the majors?   If a team wants to put me at second base for three seasons, they are free to do so, although stupid.

Deserving doesn't get a person anywhere in baseball.  Ability to help in some way does.  And that definition is somewhat fungible.  Baseball is incredibly unfair, unjust and fickle hearted.  Just ask the guys who didn't get first round bonuses.

Buckeye 2015Buckeye 201510,000+ posts

For a guy in the minors it's not normally the guys he's playing with that determine whether or not he moves up.....it's the guys in front of him.  If a guy had a "short stint" in AAA and is back to AA, it's not Tebow's fault....it's that the guys in AAA are better.  Do you really think the Mets would hold back a guy that could potentially help them just to move Tebow up?   It's fine that he's a sideshow in A or AA, but once you start talking AAA or MLB I don't think they are willing to play that game

C cabbagedadHSBaseballWeb member since 2011
Buckeye 2015 posted:

For a guy in the minors it's not normally the guys he's playing with that determine whether or not he moves up.....it's the guys in front of him.  If a guy had a "short stint" in AAA and is back to AA, it's not Tebow's fault....it's that the guys in AAA are better.  Do you really think the Mets would hold back a guy that could potentially help them just to move Tebow up?   It's fine that he's a sideshow in A or AA, but once you start talking AAA or MLB I don't think they are willing to play that game

Buckeye, what you say is true but I think there is often more to it when moving players through the minors.  Yes, of course, the players in front of him are a big factor but there is also juggling back and forth based on how a player handles the next level.  The player I spoke of has done the gradual progression up and back several times and when you see his stat lines, it makes perfect sense.  He would have high success at a level, move up, have moderate success, move back, crush it, move back up and have better success.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  So, currently, he is crushing it at AA and will likely go back to AAA before too long.  

But those call ups are precious and few.  Only so many roster spots per position and overall.  So, if, say, a Tebow gets put a bit on the fast track for any variety of reasons (right or wrong), it can certainly affect a guy like the one I used as a real life example.  

Hypothetically, the Mets could have a Cespedes hit the 10-day DL and decide the best roster move is to have a guy on the bench who could fill an OF spot and be a decent bat off the bench.  Hypothetically, either Tebow or this guy could fill that need.  Which would they pick and why?  This would certainly be a life-changer for this guy.  But it is certainly possible that it doesn't happen and Tebow gets the nod.   Heck, it could be a life-changer for Tebow.  

Hmmmm...  Cespedes IS on the 10 day DL ...        just sayin'

Last edited by cabbagedad
A adbono10,000+ posts
cabbagedad posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

For a guy in the minors it's not normally the guys he's playing with that determine whether or not he moves up.....it's the guys in front of him.  If a guy had a "short stint" in AAA and is back to AA, it's not Tebow's fault....it's that the guys in AAA are better.  Do you really think the Mets would hold back a guy that could potentially help them just to move Tebow up?   It's fine that he's a sideshow in A or AA, but once you start talking AAA or MLB I don't think they are willing to play that game

Buckeye, what you say is true but I think there is often more to it when moving players through the minors.  Yes, of course, the players in front of him are a big factor but there is also juggling back and forth based on how a player handles the next level.  The player I spoke of has done the gradual progression up and back several times and when you see his stat lines, it makes perfect sense.  He would have high success at a level, move up, have moderate success, move back, crush it, move back up and have better success.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  So, currently, he is crushing it at AA and will likely go back to AAA before too long.  

But those call ups are precious and few.  Only so many roster spots per position and overall.  So, if, say, a Tebow gets put a bit on the fast track for any variety of reasons (right or wrong), it can certainly affect a guy like the one I used as a real life example.  

Hypothetically, the Mets could have a Cespedes hit the 10-day DL and decide the best roster move is to have a guy on the bench who could fill an OF spot and be a decent bat off the bench.  Hypothetically, either Tebow or this guy could fill that need.  Which would they pick and why?  This would certainly be a life-changer for this guy.  But it is certainly possible that it doesn't happen and Tebow gets the nod.   Heck, it could be a life-changer for Tebow.  

Hmmmm...  Cespedes IS on the 10 day DL ...        just sayin'

Bingo 

Buckeye 2015Buckeye 201510,000+ posts

I just don't see the Mets moving Tebow to the MLB....ever.   Having him play in the minors is one thing....he's an attraction, but in MLB you have guys livlihoods depending on the Mets being able to win games.  Do you really think a Mets pitcher wants to throw in a game that they have Tebow in the lineup defensively?   My son is  pitcher and he absolutely hates it when anyone other than the guys who have earned the starting position are in on defense.....bad things just seem to find those guys....and the pitcher ends up taking the knock for it...either in his W/L record or his ERA....which at the end of the year can have a big part in his next contract $$$.   I just don't see the MLB guys thinking "oh, this is great, I get to play with Tebow" like the minor league guys may.   At this point, he brings nothing to an MLB roster....lack of power, defensive liability and he strikes out almost half his AB's.  That's ok if he's putting butts in the seats at a minor league park, but not for an MLB team that's only 4.5 games out of first place

Last edited by Buckeye 2015
C cabbagedadHSBaseballWeb member since 2011

Yeah it has been and will continue to be interesting to watch if he continues to keep his progression just a bit better than the expectations of most.  Certainly, his presence has boosted the Mets MiLB gate and as someone else pointed out, when he hits the level that he fails, that probably all goes away so it would be fun to be a fly on the wall in the office of those discussions.

Of course, almost all teams deal with the dilemma of rolling out a defensive liability in exchange for offensive firepower.  So, he would have to improve significantly with consistent power or quite a bit on both sides of the ball.

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003

What bothers me is that this isn't about MLB but about more attention for his and more fans to get a bigger better contract at ESPN. His PR people have even admitted so, as I have posted in the past.

You can't get a call up not being on the 40 man roster and that isn't going to happen. Will that mean he gets days off for his ESPN appearances for game day? Who else can do that?  If that happens than I have less respect for the Mets than I already do. The new name for the Binghamton Mets just shows you what a circus they are.

IMO you are either a ball player or your not. And for what it's worth if he was over in the Texas League he would have been done a while ago.

TE Teaching Elder5,000+ posts
cabbagedad posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

For a guy in the minors it's not normally the guys he's playing with that determine whether or not he moves up.....it's the guys in front of him.  If a guy had a "short stint" in AAA and is back to AA, it's not Tebow's fault....it's that the guys in AAA are better.  Do you really think the Mets would hold back a guy that could potentially help them just to move Tebow up?   It's fine that he's a sideshow in A or AA, but once you start talking AAA or MLB I don't think they are willing to play that game

Buckeye, what you say is true but I think there is often more to it when moving players through the minors.  Yes, of course, the players in front of him are a big factor but there is also juggling back and forth based on how a player handles the next level.  The player I spoke of has done the gradual progression up and back several times and when you see his stat lines, it makes perfect sense.  He would have high success at a level, move up, have moderate success, move back, crush it, move back up and have better success.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  So, currently, he is crushing it at AA and will likely go back to AAA before too long.  

But those call ups are precious and few.  Only so many roster spots per position and overall.  So, if, say, a Tebow gets put a bit on the fast track for any variety of reasons (right or wrong), it can certainly affect a guy like the one I used as a real life example.  

Hypothetically, the Mets could have a Cespedes hit the 10-day DL and decide the best roster move is to have a guy on the bench who could fill an OF spot and be a decent bat off the bench.  Hypothetically, either Tebow or this guy could fill that need.  Which would they pick and why?  This would certainly be a life-changer for this guy.  But it is certainly possible that it doesn't happen and Tebow gets the nod.   Heck, it could be a life-changer for Tebow.  

Hmmmm...  Cespedes IS on the 10 day DL ...        just sayin'

While I appreciate the story, and truly hope for the best for the young man, at the same time, he could have been a low round pick who is out performing a first rounder, but the first round money guy gets the call ups.  Baseball, for what it's worth, is not exactly a meritocracy. 

TPMTPMHSBaseballweb Member since 2003
Buckeye 2015 posted:

 Do you really think the Mets would hold back a guy that could potentially help them just to move Tebow up?   

Hope not but its done. Its all about what available on the 40 man roster and if they took someone off to move him up just to bolster MLB attendance there could be a grievance filed and I am not sure they need that.

JMO

C cabbagedadHSBaseballWeb member since 2011
Teaching Elder posted:
cabbagedad posted:
Buckeye 2015 posted:

For a guy in the minors it's not normally the guys he's playing with that determine whether or not he moves up.....it's the guys in front of him.  If a guy had a "short stint" in AAA and is back to AA, it's not Tebow's fault....it's that the guys in AAA are better.  Do you really think the Mets would hold back a guy that could potentially help them just to move Tebow up?   It's fine that he's a sideshow in A or AA, but once you start talking AAA or MLB I don't think they are willing to play that game

Buckeye, what you say is true but I think there is often more to it when moving players through the minors.  Yes, of course, the players in front of him are a big factor but there is also juggling back and forth based on how a player handles the next level.  The player I spoke of has done the gradual progression up and back several times and when you see his stat lines, it makes perfect sense.  He would have high success at a level, move up, have moderate success, move back, crush it, move back up and have better success.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  So, currently, he is crushing it at AA and will likely go back to AAA before too long.  

But those call ups are precious and few.  Only so many roster spots per position and overall.  So, if, say, a Tebow gets put a bit on the fast track for any variety of reasons (right or wrong), it can certainly affect a guy like the one I used as a real life example.  

Hypothetically, the Mets could have a Cespedes hit the 10-day DL and decide the best roster move is to have a guy on the bench who could fill an OF spot and be a decent bat off the bench.  Hypothetically, either Tebow or this guy could fill that need.  Which would they pick and why?  This would certainly be a life-changer for this guy.  But it is certainly possible that it doesn't happen and Tebow gets the nod.   Heck, it could be a life-changer for Tebow.  

Hmmmm...  Cespedes IS on the 10 day DL ...        just sayin'

While I appreciate the story, and truly hope for the best for the young man, at the same time, he could have been a low round pick who is out performing a first rounder, but the first round money guy gets the call ups.  Baseball, for what it's worth, is not exactly a meritocracy. 

No argument with your points, Teach.  I just find it all fun to talk about and speculate.  Not saying "my guy" deserves to be called up, just adding a real life person to the equation/discussion.  It all factors in, I reckon... bonus money, once in a great while - gate draw/celebrity, of course talent and can you help us, age, position needs, circumstance, injury and on and on.  Again, would be fun to be a fly on the wall for these behind-closed-door discussions.  

Anyone here from behind those doors?

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
2019Dad posted:
RJM posted:

 

** playing age is what the player turns during the season

Not exactly, it's his age on June 30th. This is his age 30 season. 

It really doesn’t matter. Rather than argue what a scout told me, 30 or 31 it’s’ all the same. Its a party trick.

Last edited by RJM
RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Buckeye 2015 posted:

I don't have a problem with him playing.  He is doing as well as any other AA guy.....though the 52 strikeouts out of 112 AB's (46%) would lead you to think that AA is probably the limit of where he can play.  If it brings some fans to the games, then so be it....no different than any other minor league "attraction"...and anyone who attends minor league games knows there are a lot of them.....the Chicken, Jake the Diamond Dog, Birdzerk, Miron Noodleman before he passed away this winter, etc, etc, etc.  All designed to draw fans.  Difference is Tebow is a player....not a between innings sideshow.  I guess I don't see the difference.....not sure why everyone gets so bent out of shape over him playing. 

I live in Portland ME part of the time. On the radio the Sea Sogs advertised the series with Binghamton as “come see a Heisman Trophy winner play baseball.”

I passed. Been there, done better. I saw a Heisman trophy play MLB when the Royals and White Sox came to Anaheim. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
Teaching Elder posted:
adbono posted:
cabbagedad posted:

I guess I took my eye off the ball.  It took this updated thread to push me to check out his current line.  The most interesting thing I found, the thing that I apparently missed for the last year plus, is the (fairly) new name of his current affiliation team...  Binghamton Rumble Ponies.  The name is apparently a tribute to the abundance of carousels in the area and the hats have an image of a horse with a pole thru it.  Hmmm... the mighty Rumble Ponies. ?? 

Sorry, I'm easily distracted... back to the topic... 

So a current teammate of Tim's is from our area, been progressing gradually in the minors, had one stint in AAA and is a consistent ............300 + hitter with power.  His minors path has taken six years to date.  He's 26.   I'm on both sides of the Tebow argument (I actually think 2019Dad's recent post sums it nicely) but this is a real life example of the guy who may never get the call up and at some point in the near future, it may very well be because Tim got the call instead of him.  

I still can't get the image of a carousel pony on a professional player's hat out of my mind.

Very appropriate metaphor if you ask me. And your point is well taken about any advancement that Tebow gets is at the expense of someone more deserving. That’s why baseball guys don’t like it that Tebow is playing, and that’s why those that aren’t baseball guys don’t get it. 

Who exactly is entitled to a baseball career or a call up to the majors?   If a team wants to put me at second base for three seasons, they are free to do so, although stupid.

Deserving doesn't get a person anywhere in baseball.  Ability to help in some way does.  And that definition is somewhat fungible.  Baseball is incredibly unfair, unjust and fickle hearted.  Just ask the guys who didn't get first round bonuses.

A MLB call up should be earned. I’m betting Tebow’s won’t be earned. The Mets already claimed last year it’s a publicity stunt.

Steve A.Steve A.1,000+ posts

Let's just say for example that MLB is in the entertainment business, which it is. Can they therefore seek to provide a product that generates interest? Yes, and they can & do it any way they see fit.

How many teams out of 30 have a legitimate shot to win the WS this year?? Maybe 10. Do the Mets have a legit shot to get to the WS? Can you say NO.

Let's just pretend that perhaps, just perhaps, Tim Tebow is an older MILB guy grinding it out in the minor leagues because he still wants to play when he can. Is MILB not infested with about 500 guys who fit this description?? Does T Tebow have any control whatsoever over what the Mets decide regarding a call up? No. Can the Mets call him up in September when rosters expand & in no way shape or form "harm" the team. I suppose that is debatable but I can promise you this: There have been much less talented players than Tim Tebow get time because they were high picks or big $$ Investments.

The rage against T Tebow revolves around his personal religious views. Simple as that. They make some people uncomfortable.

As for Tebow stealing time from some other more worthy player, just save it. If you are that borderline & you seriously think that if it were not for Tebow you would have got a shot you are delusional.

TE Teaching Elder5,000+ posts
Steve A. posted:

Let's just say for example that MLB is in the entertainment business, which it is. Can they therefore seek to provide a product that generates interest? Yes, and they can & do it any way they see fit.

How many teams out of 30 have a legitimate shot to win the WS this year?? Maybe 10. Do the Mets have a legit shot to get to the WS? Can you say NO.

Let's just pretend that perhaps, just perhaps, Tim Tebow is an older MILB guy grinding it out in the minor leagues because he still wants to play when he can. Is MILB not infested with about 500 guys who fit this description?? Does T Tebow have any control whatsoever over what the Mets decide regarding a call up? No. Can the Mets call him up in September when rosters expand & in no way shape or form "harm" the team. I suppose that is debatable but I can promise you this: There have been much less talented players than Tim Tebow get time because they were high picks or big $$ Investments.

The rage against T Tebow revolves around his personal religious views. Simple as that. They make some people uncomfortable.

As for Tebow stealing time from some other more worthy player, just save it. If you are that borderline & you seriously think that if it were not for Tebow you would have got a shot you are delusional.

This ^^^^^.

RT Rob T5,000+ posts
Ja'Crispy posted:
TPM posted:
Ja'Crispy posted:

Tebow = White Christian Male = 50% (I'm not sure it's not more now) of the people in this country think he is everything that is wrong

That is not a fair statement and totally inappropriate for this site.

Completely fair. It's what drives his mocking coverage on MSESPN and the other media.

I didn't know Alex Jones posted here! 

J Ja'Crispy1,000+ posts
Rob T posted:
Ja'Crispy posted:
TPM posted:
Ja'Crispy posted:

Tebow = White Christian Male = 50% (I'm not sure it's not more now) of the people in this country think he is everything that is wrong

That is not a fair statement and totally inappropriate for this site.

Completely fair. It's what drives his mocking coverage on MSESPN and the other media.

I didn't know Alex Jones posted here! 

I don't know who that is, but I'm guessing that is your way of telling me they only cover him like that because he had a weird throwing motion as a qb. There is not a political slant to how people root against Tebow at all?

rynoattackrynoattack10,000+ posts

I think the religious stuff with Tebow is WAY overblown.  I personally didn't like him because I am a Georgia Bulldogs Fan, and he always smoked us.  The other reason was because he's not a very good QB, but ESPN/Media kept shoving him down my throat.  All of the Tebow lovers making excuses for why he's not in the NFL, and that he got hosed, etc.

Now, I don't really care about that.  I think it is kind of cool he's giving it a run.  He's obviously worked very hard, so I am hoping he gets a shot.

A adbono10,000+ posts
rynoattack posted:

I think the religious stuff with Tebow is WAY overblown.  I personally didn't like him because I am a Georgia Bulldogs Fan, and he always smoked us.  The other reason was because he's not a very good QB, but ESPN/Media kept shoving him down my throat.  All of the Tebow lovers making excuses for why he's not in the NFL, and that he got hosed, etc.

Now, I don't really care about that.  I think it is kind of cool he's giving it a run.  He's obviously worked very hard, so I am hoping he gets a shot.

I was with you all the way up to your last paragraph 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

The rage against Tim Tebow revolves around his personal religious views. Simple as that. They make some people uncomfortable.

 

Not at all. I’m tired of the people who raged on be was an awesome NFL QB who got screwed because he’s religious. They didn't stop when I pointed out all the other employed, religious NFL players like All Pro, future Hall of Famer Alan Rogers. 

Away from this board of baseball intelligent people there are plenty who believe Tebow is a legitmate MLB prospect. I can’t wait for him to fail so he disappears and the BS ends.

It’s not hard fo predict Tebow will eventually be the next Fred Astaire with his worshippers when he contracts to do Dancing With The Stars. 

Last edited by RJM
O old_school10,000+ posts
RJM posted:

Is a 6’3” 245 pound 30 yo who hits the ball the other way 46% of the time when he hits the ball any kind of a prospect? He strikes out 42% of the time against AA pitching. 

AAA pitchers have been up or will be up in the majors. They would overwhelm Tebow. 

Strike outs don't matter anymore...you need to check the spreadsheet.

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
old_school posted:
RJM posted:

Is a 6’3” 245 pound 30 yo who hits the ball the other way 46% of the time when he hits the ball any kind of a prospect? He strikes out 42% of the time against AA pitching. 

AAA pitchers have been up or will be up in the majors. They would overwhelm Tebow. 

Strike outs don't matter anymore...you need to check the spreadsheet.

Striking out in almost half your at bats in AA matters.

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007
rynoattack posted:

I am surprised at how well he has done.  I don't think he should make it to MLB, although it wouldn't shock me if they bring him up to sell tickets, but I am impressed with what he has done.

Tebow has a $10 minor league ticket freak show value. I don’t believe he has a MLB ticket price curiosity value.

I would rather see the potential stars of tomorrow at a minor league game. I remember going to a Wilmington Blue Rocks (A ball) game several years ago. I was very impressed by the first baseman. It was Eric Hosmer. He was easy to identify as the top prospect on the field. 

Last edited by RJM
LB luv baseball5,000+ posts

As a Met fan I saw the writing on the wall when they signed him that if he was marginally viable as a player they might bring him up.  I think that is where this is going.

We've had about two months of good baseball in 10 years and nearly stole a World Series with it.  If this season continues down the path it is on the Mets may very well tip the World Series if they move deGrom or Syndergaard in July.  That sets the stage for a 100 loss season and for Mr. Tebow to come to New York in September.  If it hasn't happened already it would put to rest the idea there are two MLB organizations in NY once and for all. 

I am praying for a Chapman type deal but expect it to be more like Seaver. 

RJMRJMHSBaseballWeb member since 2007

Tebow making the all star team makes sense. < sarcasm

He’s 33rd in the league in hitting. He’s 55th in homers. He’s 37th in slugging. He’s 35th in OPS. He’s 34th in OBP. Maybe he made the team on his gold glove left field play. Since Tebow is an opposite field singles hitter maybe it’s his 0 stolen baes that got him on the team.

He hasn’t played like an all star. He hasn’t played like a MLB prospect. Someone more deserving got screwed. But he’s probably happy to have a few days off. 

i’d say it’s a publicity stunt, joke, desperate attempt to sell tickets.

Last edited by RJM

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